S04.E23: We Are The Flash

[millennium]

3 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I don't know what Barry was suppose to do.

He was supposed to bring him to justice, even if it meant his secret was revealed.   That's what a hero does.

[BeautifulFlower]

9 hours ago, millennium said:

He was supposed to bring him to justice, even if it meant his secret was revealed.   That's what a hero does.

I get what you're saying. However, I can understand the importance of Barry keeping his secret. If Leonard revealed his secret, that means future criminals would know Barry was the Flash. Knowing his information means they could find out everything about Barry, which includes the people he is close to. His family and friends will always be in danger.

[SevenStars]

4 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I get what you're saying. However, I can understand the importance of Barry keeping his secret. If Leonard revealed his secret, that means future criminals would know Barry was the Flash. Knowing his information means they could find out everything about Barry, which includes the people he is close to. His family and friends will always be in danger.

Which means Barry would be spending his time fighting and protecting his family instead of the city. Because the villains would be coming after his family.

In a movie this idea can work, but not on a show. 

[Kate45]

8 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I get what you're saying. However, I can understand the importance of Barry keeping his secret. If Leonard revealed his secret, that means future criminals would know Barry was the Flash. Knowing his information means they could find out everything about Barry, which includes the people he is close to. His family and friends will always be in danger.

We should also keep in mind that he had to promise Barry not to murder any one else. When Snart murdered his dad in 2x03...he went to jail. It’s not like Barry let him run free in exchange for keeping his identity secret. 

However, why are we focusing on Snart like Caitlin isn’t also a criminal and an active member on the team? She didn’t even promise to stop her criminal behavior or show any remorse for her actions. In fact, she was willing to do additional jobs selling humans just to get KF back. KF froze of people’s finger and toes for apparently no reason at all. But, she’s a “good person” and currently on the team. 

[BeautifulFlower]

5 hours ago, SevenStars said:

Which means Barry would be spending his time fighting and protecting his family instead of the city. Because the villains would be coming after his family.

In a movie this idea can work, but not on a show. 

Exactly. Reverse Flash is an example. He was from the future and knew who Barry. If I remember, didn't he threaten Iris?

[SevenStars]

8 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Exactly. Reverse Flash is an example. He was from the future and knew who Barry. If I remember, didn't he threaten Iris?

And killed his mother, and caused Barry to grow-up without his Dad. He basically destroyed Barry's whole family because he found out who the Flash really was.

[millennium]

The problem in the Arrowverse is that secret identities are discovered/divulged so easily, and so frequently.    That, and the heroes are surrounded by a large circle of family and friends.  Easy pickings.

Batman has no one, so his liabilities are limited.   Traditionally, Superman's only vulnerabilities in this regard were Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane.   Green Arrow was another loner, except for Dinah Lance (Black Canary).   I don't know where things stand in comic books today, but aside from a girlfriend superheroes traditionally led solitary lives.   It was the cost of their crusade.

To believe in a superhero, one often had to suspend disbelief that a Batman or Superman could operate entirely undercover.   The Arrowverse writers have obviously eschewed that conceit in favor of a dubious albeit more realistic premise that the information age makes it easier to discover things people would rather keep hidden.  But it creates new problems for superhero storytellers, especially this bunch who seem hellbent on revealing Barry or Oliver's identity to someone new every other week.   IMHO, devil's bargains, like the one Barry struck with Captain Cold, are not acceptable fixes to the plot dilemma they have created.   Basically it was Flash putting his stamp of approval on CC's criminal activities.    Unthinkable to older comics fans like me.

[Katsullivan]

On 8/3/2018 at 9:57 AM, BeautifulFlower said:

However, I can understand the importance of Barry keeping his secret. If Leonard revealed his secret, that means future criminals would know Barry was the Flash. Knowing his information means they could find out everything about Barry, which includes the people he is close to. His family and friends will always be in danger.

How is he more in danger than police officers, prosecutors, judges and other people in law enforcement who don't have the benefit of anonymity? No one is arguing that Barry shouldn't protect his identity - but if he's protecting his identity by aiding and abetting the criminals he's supposed to be catching, then he needs to hang up the cape. Because that brings his crime-fighting contribution to Central City to a big fat zero.

[millennium]

7 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

How is he more in danger than police officers, prosecutors, judges and other people in law enforcement who don't have the benefit of anonymity? No one is arguing that Barry shouldn't protect his identity - but if he's protecting his identity by aiding and abetting the criminals he's supposed to be catching, then he needs to hang up the cape. Because that brings his crime-fighting contribution to Central City to a big fat zero.

That's a really great point about everyday law enforcement and the risks they take.   I suppose it could be argued that a superhero takes on bigger criminals, draws more attention to him/her self, etc., and thus the risk is magnified.   But if that's the case, I would contend it then becomes incumbent upon the superhero to take even greater precautions to lock down his secret identity and have plans in place just in case his identity is exposed.   That does not include cutting deals with crooks to avoid being outed.   If the risk is so great, and the need to be a superhero outweighs all other considerations, then perhaps Barry, Oliver, etc., should reconsider having families in the first place.   Every day, ordinary people opt out of having families to further their careers, their art, etc.   Everybody has to decide what's most important in life.   It has been a longstanding sentiment in comic books that superheroes and families don't mix.  

[Trini]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

It has been a longstanding sentiment in comic books that superheroes and families don't mix.  

Maybe decades ago, but I don't think that's so true today. I think superheroes (even supervillians) frequently now have families, significant others, and/or pseudo-familial relationships to increase "drama", AKA, storytelling potential. And that is necessary for an open-ended TV show.

But back to the original issue; these moral quandaries are one of the things that make these shows interesting, however, The Flash more often than not ignores addressing such issues.  :-/

[millennium]

6 minutes ago, Trini said:

Maybe decades ago, but I don't think that's so true today. I think superheroes (even supervillians) frequently now have families, significant others, and/or pseudo-familial relationships to increase "drama", AKA, storytelling potential. And that is necessary for an open-ended TV show.

 

A CW TV show, at least.      

[Katsullivan]

On 04/08/2018 at 10:14 PM, Trini said:

But back to the original issue; these moral quandaries are one of the things that make these shows interesting, however, The Flash more often than not ignores addressing such issues.  :-/

This. I personally won't riot if Barry and Team did the occasional "deal with the devil" with crooks. But there's none of the requisite drama to make these storylines palatable. 

I can't get over Amulet's entire treatment on this show.

In a procedural I watch - I'll keep it vague because of spoilers - The Crimefighter makes a deal with a crook to let him go in exchange for help/information. When it's over, the police comes to arrest the crook. This exchange follows:

Quote

 

Crook: You promised to let me go. We had a deal.

Crimefighter: You are a trafficker and an extortionist. Not only did I enjoy lying to you, but seeing the look on your face now makes it even better.