"Some Sort of Transgressive Lesbian Geek Spiral Bound to End in Tears": The Cophine thread

[bravelittletoaster]

I'm sure there is plenty to discuss about this messy arrangement. Mostly I just thought this thread title needed to happen.

[Happy to be here]

And a very good title for the thread because as much as I love the pairing and I ship them the description is very fitting and unfortunately true.  

[Ceeg]

I feel like that quote is also reflective of my life in fandom in general.

 

I hope we get some kind of scene with Cosima and Delphine where they talk about their issues or at least semi-define their relationship, because that's been missing so far. We went from Cosima not wanting anything to do with Delphine at the start of 1.10, to her being on shaky but sort-of-okay ground at the end of 1.10, and then they jumped right into bed in 2.01 without much of an explanation or lead-up. I don't quite understand them. Based on the preview, it looks like they might get some kind of focus next week, but I'd really like some kind of scene where they at least discuss what is happening. I feel like most (all?) of the talk about Cosima and Delphine's relationship has been done by the writers and actresses outside of the show, and not so much in the actual text.

[bravelittletoaster]

Plus there was that interesting and loaded exchange when Cosima is watching the tapes of Jennifer and remarks that Jennifer didn't realize her boyfriend was her monitor. She kind of has this uncomfortable epiphany where she observes that she forgets Delphine is hers. Delphine just smiles unproblematically and is all "that's good!" And the look Cosima's gives her, man....she's definitely not sure how she feels in that moment. I think Cosima's deeply ambivalent about their relationship and probably knows that Sarah was right that it was a terrible idea to pursue that, but frankly I think she just wants Delphine and doesn't even care that she knows it's clouding her judgment.

50% of what I like about it is that it's complicated and a little fucked up, though, so I'm good.

[jaybear1701]

50% of what I like about it is that it's complicated and a little fucked up, though, so I'm good.

 

Same here. Though it's funny, I'm normally not a fan of fictional romantic relationships involving lies and deception. I blame my love for Tatiana Maslany and Evelyne Brochu.

 

I had a brief discussion on another platform about whether Delphine and Cosima can truly love each other if they can't fully trust one another. To which, someone replied that the trust issue impacts not their capacity to love one another, but their ability to be in a healthy relationship.

 

We've been bombarded by statements from Graeme, John, Tatiana, and Evelyne about Cosima and Delphine being in love, but I guess the question is: will it be enough to keep them together? Will it be enough in light of Cosima's illness, and DYAD, and whatever shady things they (mostly Delphine probably) will have to do in order to keep her alive? My head says no, but my heart says, I hope so. These two will be the death of me! 

 

And thank you, Felix, for the thread title! Ha!

Edited May 12, 2014 by jaybear1701

[Riful]

I think this episode really made it obvious where Delphine stands and also hinted very strongly at how far she is willing to go for a cure.

 

I've been thinking Delphine was still a bit trying to cling onto DYAD/Neolutionism, with how she acted during the awkward tour and office scene, but this episode she was just so done with DYAD's shit. You could really feel her anger.

 

It felt very 'anvrilly' when Cosima was all "That doesn't matter, I'll try anything" "So do I" exchange. I'm feeling pretty sure that Delphine is going to do something rather drastic, perhaps involving Sarah and/or Kira and I can't wait. Things always more interesting when people are being proactive and whatever Delphine is going to do this season, it will help us get to know her character better.

On a different note I suspect that Delphine getting those results meant for Leekie wasn't an accident. It seemed way to convenient.

[jaybear1701]

I agree. Leekie more than likely sent the stem cell information to Delphine after Rachel's cease & desist order. He wasn't even surprised that Delphine knew about it when confronted in his office.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on the whole Leekie/Delphine thing and how it might affect Cosima. It seemed like Cosima was fishing a bit with her joke about Leekie destroying Delphine's "reputation as a budding lesbian" in retaliation for their snooping. Perhaps she suspects that Leekie/Delphine had a thing and is disguising the suspicion as a joke (kind of like how she got Leekie to admit to the transgenic embryonic stem cells in 1x07, when all she was doing was guessing). Interesting too that Delphine doesn't take the bait and just focuses on the task at hand.

[Happy to be here]

50% of what I like about it is that it's complicated and a little fucked up, though, so I'm good.

 

Same here. Though it's funny, I'm normally not a fan of fictional romantic relationships involving lies and deception. I blame my love for Tatiana Maslany and Evelyne Brochu.

 

 

The fucked up relationships are the fun ones.  I love these two because they so clearly have feelings for each other but neither know where they stand with each other.    Cosima knows she is sleeping with her Monitor and Cosima is between a rock and a hard place with Dyad.  I am pretty sure she knows more then she is saying but does actually love Cosima.  This is so going to end in tears....probably mine. 

[bosawks]

You know you have chemistry when you can get me to think getting a shot is sexy.

[Wilowy]

I need Delphine to just... DO more. She seems so passive and floaty. 

 

I want her to get pissed off at Cosima's dilemma/illness and virtual entrapment now with Leekie who may or may not be a good guy. As much as I want to trust him, I don't. And I don't trust Delphine, either. She acts almost like DYAD 'has something' on her to keep her in line.

[barestsmidgen]

Agree, Willowy... they certainly have chemistry, but she's not adorable-sexy enough to overcome the laissez-faire, not-quite-honest, pepper-conversations-with-the-occasional-declarations-of-intense-support-but-don't-necessarily-pay-them-off thing. Technically, I wanted to be way into them as it seems like almost everyone is. In reality... I'm a little meh, with a side of no-trusty.

[Wilowy]

Exactly! And hee on the "laissez-faire" - perfect! 

[jaybear1701]

I need Delphine to just... DO more. She seems so passive and floaty. 

 

I want her to get pissed off at Cosima's dilemma/illness and virtual entrapment now with Leekie who may or may not be a good guy. As much as I want to trust him, I don't. And I don't trust Delphine, either. She acts almost like DYAD 'has something' on her to keep her in line.

Based on the previews, it looks like we'll be getting a pretty pissed off Cosima in the next episode and a Delphine who won't back down from Cosima's anger. I feel like there's been a lot of unspoken tension between them, not just b/c of the illness but because of their obvious trust/deception issues. I'm really looking forward to watching them both boil over.

[Riful]

Hmmm I actually think that between Cosima and Delphine, Delphine is by far the more proactive one - especially in connection to finding a cure for Cosima. I feel like Cosima hasn't really been ehhh... gun-ho about doing whatever it takes to find a cure compared to Delphine. Some of it is minor stuff but other things are pretty overt. I find the 1st and the last two episodes the most obvious ones showing Delphine being more active. I would also say acting very outwardly hostile will not help Delphine get what she wants, which is a cure for Cosima.

 

• First episode she was pushing for Cosima to go to DYAD who are better equipped to help Cosima. She also went against Cosima's wishes and gave Leekie the blood samples and informed him that Cosima was sick.

• Second episode she is the one making a list over things so they can get the lab together (minor thing but more than Cosima who is understandably not happy about having to turn towards DYAD for help)

• Third was very interesting as she was balancing multiple roles (girlfriend, doctor and more or less teacher). She finds out about the videos and shows them to Cosima. Thus informing her about Jennifer (my perspective she was trying to get Cosima more serious about it all). During the autopsy she is the one in charge and when Cosima's phone rings, she is the one pushing for them to focus on the autopsy.

• In the fifth she is the one leading the "break in" into Leekie's office, while Cosima is the one asking if it is a good idea. When they get busted and Cosima tries to cover for them, Delphine is the one confronting Leekie about the stem cell line. One important detail that gets pointed out, is that they lost the information on where the synthetic sequences that makes the clones possible are placed. Which ties into the next episode.

• She basically recruited Scott. She bluntly tells Cosima they need him as a sequencing tech and someone they feel is on their side. I 100% took away from that scene that Delphine was the one who brought Scott up to Leekie's attention. DYAD must get a lot of application, but she knew Scott had sent in his.

 

I feel like the show is also gearing up towards Delphine doing something more extreme. There been too many anvils falling, especially with Delphine saying she will do whatever it takes.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Riful

[hardy har]

Forgive me if this should maybe go in the general speculation thread, but it's mostly related to this pairing and Leekie. That being said, let me know of I should movie it.

I need Delphine to just... DO more. She seems so passive and floaty. 

 

I want her to get pissed off at Cosima's dilemma/illness and virtual entrapment now with Leekie who may or may not be a good guy. As much as I want to trust him, I don't. And I don't trust Delphine, either. She acts almost like DYAD 'has something' on her to keep her in line.

I agree. Leekie more than likely sent the stem cell information to Delphine after Rachel's cease & desist order. He wasn't even surprised that Delphine knew about it when confronted in his office.

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on the whole Leekie/Delphine thing and how it might affect Cosima. It seemed like Cosima was fishing a bit with her joke about Leekie destroying Delphine's "reputation as a budding lesbian" in retaliation for their snooping. Perhaps she suspects that Leekie/Delphine had a thing and is disguising the suspicion as a joke (kind of like how she got Leekie to admit to the transgenic embryonic stem cells in 1x07, when all she was doing was guessing). Interesting too that Delphine doesn't take the bait and just focuses on the task at hand.

I, perhaps stupidly, have always assumed DYAD has something on the monitors. Or, they at least lie and coerce in order to blackmail/scare people into monitoring the clones. Delphine seems to be a little different than Paul and Donnie because she works for DYAD, but (to me) she never seemed on board with . . . whatever the hell was up with her and Leekie in 1x6 and 1x8. Like, there was never any sort of reciprocation or general ease on her part when he got all handsy. Plus, there have been a few little things that make me wonder if there's going to be some sort of showdown between Leekie and Delphine, not only about Cosima's treatment, but about Neolution in general. Delphine made a point of defending it when Cosima called it "fringe" and later she was quick to tell Cosima that it wasn't Eugenical. Leekie, however, calls Delphine a Eugenicist in that scene where she hands over the blood sample and that just made me think they have a different idea of how to apply Neolution in practice.

 

There was also that line Cosima had in 2x2 where Delphine said the experiments were compartmentalized and Cosima sasses that it just meant that smart people aren't being told what they're really working on, which I interpreted to be aimed at Delphine and the other scientists are who are studying the clones. and in 2x3 where she mentioned she liked using Leekie's office when he's not in town, so I don't know. I just have this feeling there may be something down the line between those 2 about what Neolution should be used for. Based on his lecture in S1 he appears to be much more hardline about it than Delphine does. Leekie seems to be about creating a perfect human and, being an immunologist, Delphine could possibly want to focus more on healing and medical cures as opposed to human perfectionism. 

 

And yeah. I'm still waiting to find out how that "accidental" email got sent to Delphine. On top of that, I'm wondering if he's even giving her the right stuff. He was just too damn helpful when they confronted him about the stem cells. This show makes me so paranoid.

 

Hmmm I actually think that between Cosima and Delphine, Delphine is by far the more proactive one - especially in connection to finding a cure for Cosima. I feel like Cosima hasn't really been ehhh... gun-ho about doing whatever it takes to find a cure compared to Delphine. Some of it is minor stuff but other things are pretty overt. I find the 1st and the last two episodes the most obvious ones showing Delphine being more active. I would also say acting very outwardly hostile will not help Delphine get what she wants, which is a cure for Cosima.

[...]

I feel like the show is also gearing up towards Delphine doing something more extreme. There been too many anvils falling, especially with Delphine saying she will do whatever it takes.

I do agree with this. Not that she cares more about Cosima's health than Cosima does, but it did seem like Delphine was really trying to get Cosima to take her illness more seriously.

Edited May 27, 2014 by hardy har

[Wilowy]

I don't get that Cosima is un-gung-ho. I feel that she is terrified. I feel that she is compartmentalizing, big time, especially regarding her own feelings on her illness, and even towards Delphine. 

 

I think she is just trying to hunker down and do the science and follow every lead... yet she can't help but look at how Jennifer... dissolves right before her eyes. She needs to be right where she is right now, and it's a lonely place.

[Ceeg]

 

and in 2x3 where she mentioned she liked using Leekie's office when he's not in town, so I don't know. I just have this feeling there may be something down the line between those 2 about what Neolution should be used for. Based on his lecture in S1 he appears to be much more hardline about it than Delphine does. 

I kind of wondered if Leekie will get killed at some point and Delphine will take over. I thought maybe her line about liking to come into his office when he's away was possibly some kind of foreshadowing. 

 

Leekie seems to be about creating a perfect human and, being an immunologist, Delphine could possibly want to focus more on healing and medical cures as opposed to human perfectionism.

 

 

But Delphine is a eugenicist, so she too is interested in creating the perfect human. Or at least weeding out the shallow end of the gene pool, since eugenicists apparently believe in selective breeding.

 

Assuming that Cosima and Delphine both make it through this season alive (and I have my doubts about that, because this show makes me paranoid), and Cosima's illness is cured, I think they're going to battle over their opposite beliefs with regards to science and the big picture.

[Riful]

I don't get that Cosima is un-gung-ho. I feel that she is terrified. I feel that she is compartmentalizing, big time, especially regarding her own feelings on her illness, and even towards Delphine. 

 

I think she is just trying to hunker down and do the science and follow every lead... yet she can't help but look at how Jennifer... dissolves right before her eyes. She needs to be right where she is right now, and it's a lonely place.

 

I agree that Cosima is terrified and compartmentalizing, and I understand why. Dying of some unknown disease is an absolute nightmare, and that is not even taking into account how messed up everything is with being a clone etc. But how she wanted do her own research first in episode one, made me think she wasn't taking it 100% serious since that is precious time wasted. She wanted to avoid using the resources of a company with over 25.000 employees, many different kinds of specialists and billions in equipment. I get why she hates DYAD but they clearly are a much more superior option than her, not even a doctor yet, trying to work things out in a college lab.

 

 

I kind of wondered if Leekie will get killed at some point and Delphine will take over. I thought maybe her line about liking to come into his office when he's away was possibly some kind of foreshadowing. 

 

But Delphine is a eugenicist, so she too is interested in creating the perfect human. Or at least weeding out the shallow end of the gene pool, since eugenicists apparently believe in selective breeding.

 

The showrunners have said that Cosima would need to learn to play dirty and then later on said the same in regards of Delphine. In Delphine's case they also used the words power play unlike with Cosima where they mentioned playing dirty was something more alien to her. I think Delphine is probably to young and low on the DYAD food chain to take over, but with all the foreshadowing I think something is bound to happen.

 

Re Delphine being a eugenicist, the selective breeding is the most common thought amongst that area to get rid of genetic diseases etc. but not necessarily something all subcribe to. It can also be linked to using technology to remove these "flaws" such as cystic fibrosis, Tay-Sachs etc. and also to improve. The word and concept is very loaded though, since many have (wrongfully) employed it in relation to ethnic cleansing and genocide. I got the feeling they brought it up to remind the audience that Delphine got some rather shaky ethics regarding science.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Riful

[Izeinwinter]

It should be noted that if you don't use the word, the actual practice is astonishingly.. accepted. or at least some versions are. People with genetic illnesses in their family tree using in-vitro techniques to screen embryos isn't an ethical debate - if anything, you might get looked at sideways for not doing it,.

It has a bad, bad history, but it appears that with sufficient biotech, eugenics just happen on their own with no coercion or even any positive political action being taken - Politicians are keeping out of it, which also means it isn't getting banned (because that would involve you in an eugenics debate, and there is no victory there for an elected official)

Edited June 1, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[x1013x]

Because the previews for the next ep weren't bad enough. There is a promo pic for episode 9. Needless to say...spoilers at link.

 

[hardy har]

Hahaha at my long winded post about a potential Leekie/Delphine showdown. Donnie totally shot that theory in the head.