Turn the Page: Comparing the Books to the Series

[Nashville]

Much of the talk centered around differences / similarities between the “Walt Longmire Mysteries” novels written by Craig Johnson and the TV show based on the same currently gets lost in discussion threads focused on individual show episodes - hence this thread.  :)

Edited January 22, 2018 by Nashville

[Kohola3]

What immediately comes to mind is the level of humor in the books vs. the lack thereof in the series.  And Dog.  I love Dog.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I don't agree here. If anything in the books, Vic is a cipher who we only see through Walt's eyes. It is hard for me gauge what she feeling for him and when it does happen between them, it feels like it comes out of nowhere on her side. While I think that the show could have done better with Walt and Vic's romance, especially with Walt, I think that it was way more believable than in the books.

In reading the novels, I didn’t get nearly as much a sense of opacity surrounding the character of Vic as you.  The Victoria Moretti of the novels was an independent woman of Italian descent, with a strong personality who had zero problems going for what she wanted - quite the opposite of the trembling, neurotic Vic portrayed in the TV series.  This is no more clearly demonstrated than by the manner in which “Book Vic” directly initiated her relationship with Walt - in a bold manner so unthinkable (or un-actionable, anyway) for “TV Vic”, the writers had to fall back to Walt eventually breaching the barrier between them.

Book Vic is sizzling hot Philly cheesesteak; TV Vic is turkey on white bread, with extra mayo please.  :P

[Nashville]

5 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

What immediately comes to mind is the level of humor in the books vs. the lack thereof in the series.  And Dog.  I love Dog.

Definite agreement here.  Some (much?) of Craig Johnson’s writing may tend toward the formulaic, especially in the later books - but Johnson also has moments where he can strike comedic genius gold with a single sentence.  The absolute perfectness of the “sheriff burrito” bit put me in the floor for about five minutes.  :D

[SimoneS]

46 minutes ago, Nashville said:

In reading the novels, I didn’t get nearly as much a sense of opacity surrounding the character of Vic as you.  The Victoria Moretti of the novels was an independent woman of Italian descent, with a strong personality who had zero problems going for what she wanted - quite the opposite of the trembling, neurotic Vic portrayed in the TV series.  This is no more clearly demonstrated than by the manner in which “Book Vic” directly initiated her relationship with Walt - in a bold manner so unthinkable (or un-actionable, anyway) for “TV Vic”, the writers had to fall back to Walt eventually breaching the barrier between them.

Book Vic is sizzling hot Philly cheesesteak; TV Vic is turkey on white bread, with extra mayo please.  :P

Your description of Book Vic is exactly why I find her a cipher or an unknown quantity. This is a man's perception of a woman who he only knows superficially. Besides how independent can she be if she marries her husband because her family doesn't like him and then chucks her striving career as a Philly cop to follow him to Wyoming because he gets a transfer? In contrast, I think that TV Vic feels like a real person flaws and all.

Edited January 22, 2018 by SimoneS

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Your description of Book Vic is exactly why I find her a cipher or an unknown quantity. This is a man's perception of a woman who he only knows superficially. Besides how independent can she be if she marries her husband because her family doesn't like him and then chucks her striving career as a Philly cop to follow him to Wyoming because he gets a transfer? In contrast, I think that TV Vic feels like a real person flaws and all.

I didn’t say Vic was always a strong, independent woman - but people have been known to grow over time, donchaknow....  :>

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

I didn’t say Vic was always a strong, independent woman - but people have been known to grow over time, donchaknow....  :>

How do you know she has grown? Did she give up those good jobs with the Philly PD and FBI to stay in Wyoming because she loves it or because of Walt? I am not the biggest fan of Johnson's writing and Vic is an example why. This is why, imo, the show did a much better job with the story in many respects.

ETA: I like Book Walt much more than TV Walt. He doesn't take himself too serious and can be funny at times.

Edited January 22, 2018 by SimoneS

[Nashville]

48 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

How do you know she has grown? Did she give up those good jobs with the Philly PD and FBI to stay in Wyoming because she loves it or because of Walt? I am not the biggest fan of Johnson's writing and Vic is an example why. This is why, imo, the show did a much better job with the story in many respects.

In the books Vic moved to Wyoming when her husband transferred to a new job in the area, and she was still trying to make the marriage work; when such efforts proved futile, though, Vic divorced him without much fanfare and simply got the hell on with her life.  Sure, the marriage’s final decline was less than pleasant and Vic is less than totally enthralled with life in Wyoming; these grumbling softly dissatisfaction are only lightly suggested in the novels, though - and I’m ok with that, because it’s realistic.  The stories are all told from Walt’s POV, and Walt isn’t omniscient - he’s only going to know what Vic has told him, and (unlike the TV series) neither Vic’s Philly departure nor her marriage breakup are major plot points.

 

Oh - as I was writing this, something else you mentioned earlier came to mind:

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Your description of Book Vic is exactly why I find her a cipher or an unknown quantity. This is a man's perception of a woman who he only knows superficially. 

Considering (a) the entire Longmire series of novels is primarily presented from Walt’s point of view, and (b) Walt is a man... uh, yeah.  ;>

[SimoneS]

On 1/22/2018 at 5:26 PM, Nashville said:

In the books Vic moved to Wyoming when her husband transferred to a new job in the area, and she was still trying to make the marriage work; when such efforts proved futile, though, Vic divorced him without much fanfare and simply got the hell on with her life.  Sure, the marriage’s final decline was less than pleasant and Vic is less than totally enthralled with life in Wyoming; these grumbling softly dissatisfaction are only lightly suggested in the novels, though - and I’m ok with that, because it’s realistic.  The stories are all told from Walt’s POV, and Walt isn’t omniscient - he’s only going to know what Vic has told him, and (unlike the TV series) neither Vic’s Philly departure nor her marriage breakup are major plot points.

 

Oh - as I was writing this, something else you mentioned earlier came to mind:

Considering (a) the entire Longmire series of novels is primarily presented from Walt’s point of view, and (b) Walt is a man... uh, yeah.  ;>

My argument is that a talented writer can tell the draw other vividly characters through the eyes of the protagonist regardless of the gender or any other characteristic. Craig Johnson simply doesn't possess that skill as a writer which is one of my main criticisms of his writing. I read the books so you aren't telling me anything that I don't know about the character of Vic, only reinforcing that my viewpoint that she is a cipher and superficially written.  

Edited January 28, 2018 by SimoneS

[Nashville]

19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

My argument is that a talented writer can tell the draw other vividly characters through the eyes of the protagonist regardless of the gender or any other characteristic. Craig Johnson simply doesn't possess that skill as a writer which is one of my main criticisms of his writing. I read the books so you aren't telling me anything that I don't know about the character of Vic, only reinforcing that my viewpoint that she is a cipher and superficially written.  

While I don’t think Craig Johnson is the Oscar Wilde of Wyoming (and to be honest, I doubt Johnson thinks so either), I think he tells a story very well within the constraints inherent in the first person voice.  I do believe, however, your criticism of Johnson’s Longmire work carries within itself an inherent contradiction.  You want omniscient third-person depiction of a character presented in a first-person voice, and characterize the lack of such as evidence of weak writing skills.  Contrariwise, *I* would contend such all-encompassing character exposition in and of itself would be evidence of weak writing skill, as it would totally demonstrate the writer’s inability to successfully tell their tale without violating the discipline required of first person voice.  Omniscient knowledge in first person voice IMHO would fall flat on its face as totally unrealistic, unless your narrator happens to be God.

Our core point of disagreement seems to be the development of Vic as a freestanding character; I thought she was moderately well-written, but you seem to consider her a unidimensional “cipher” of unknown elements and motivations.  Could you maybe elaborate on the specific Vic character elements you feel were inadequately portrayed in the novels?  It’s been a minute since I last read them, so you may have a recollection of inconsistencies which have slipped my mind since my last read.  Like Walt, I have no pretensions of omniscience and lay no claims to such.  :)

[thewhiteowl]

Late to the party but I just finished reading all the current series and wow the books are so very much better than the show. I never finished the show, honestly I was bored with it.  I think the biggest challenge the show had was translating the first person narrative. When you have everything from Walt's POV everyone else is indeed a cyber because no one really knows anyone else's true motivation. You might think you do, they may even tell you but you don't truly know. In trying to make a compelling tv show they had to show not just tell and they didn't do that effectively enough, IMO. They lost a ton of charm going for drama. Books don't always translate to the screen be it big of small. I love Stephen King's  books but the movies are mostly lame. His humor doesn't work for me that way.  Also the True Blood series was okay but the books were better. I wish I had some examples where the show was better, maybe Rizzoli and Isles but IDK.