S03.E06: Episode 6

[dubbel zout]

The larger point I was trying to make (ineffectively, clearly) was that being married to Ross isn't without challenges. I think Elizabeth had a "grass is greener" idea about that, when Ross has proven over and over that he's stubborn, obstinate, and a jackass as often as not.

[rebecca dewinter]

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

The larger point I was trying to make (ineffectively, clearly) was that being married to Ross isn't without challenges. I think Elizabeth had a "grass is greener" idea about that, when Ross has proven over and over that he's stubborn, obstinate, and a jackass as often as not.

Well she's not exactly wrong to hope for better given her marriage to Francis (and George but at least she had low expectations for that one). Maybe some of their problems were her own doing by constantly mooning over Ross, but Francis was really irrationally jealous almost immediately and then treated her badly for it even though she technically did nothing wrong - she can't exactly help it if she's more attracted to Ross, but she never betrayed Francis to deserve his wrath.

Ross & Demelza, until the Elizabeth incident happened, had a solid marriage that had issues like any relationship, but was infinitely more functional than marriage to Francis (until the 10 minutes before he died lol).

[JudyObscure]

Whether she realizes it or not, Elizabeth is in a much stronger position than George.  She has been his ideal since schooldays when he, Ross and Francis all worshipped her, plus she comes from an aristocratic family, the class George aspires to with every ounce of his being.  It would be so easy for Elizabeth to guide George into a better man, at least on the surface.  Just a few tactful words like, "No doubt these gentlemen despise the vulgars as much as you do, but they all pretend to a sort of noblesse oblige.  Perhaps you would do well to do the same, George, darling."

[dubbel zout]

I don’t know—George is so sensitive yet stubborn about his place in society that I’m not sure he’d be open to too much guidance. He doesn’t want Elizabeth as a partner, he wants her as arm candy and a prize he won.

[rebecca dewinter]

Yeah, George is going to do his thing regardless. He doesn't want Elizabeth's opinion on business issues, he basically told her straight up not to worry her pretty little head about it. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I don’t know—George is so sensitive yet stubborn about his place in society that I’m not sure he’d be open to too much guidance. He doesn’t want Elizabeth as a partner, he wants her as arm candy and a prize he won.

Oh, Elizabeth was definitely a prize he won.  Whatever he could take from his sworn enemies the Poldarks, was like a victory for him. George was sniffing around Elizabeth to be his mistress when she was unhappily married to Francis.  Even after Francis behaved like the husband  she needed him to be, he still didn’t give up.  Francis was barely cold in the ground before George proposed marriage.  After that, he decided to set up at Trenwith  solely to rub the noses of the surviving Poldarks in this.

He’s now master of one of Poldark’s properties, has one of the mines, and now has the woman both Ross and Francis loved.  Damn, I would have wanted to shove toads down George’s prissy britches too!

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's getting more and more difficult for me to watch this show, while George keeps winning and winning, with no comeuppance for his vile behavior. Just as bad as a certain moobster-who-thinks-he's-the-Michael Corleone of daytime ( @dubbel zout knows of whom I speak), who also NEVER LOSES. Though Farthing's George is a vastly superior actor.

[dubbel zout]

I can't imagine George won't get some sort of comeuppance. Maybe not this season, but ultimately he has to. Winston Graham isn't Charles Dickens in that respect.

[rebecca dewinter]

George's comeuppance is that his "heir" is actually the son of his mortal enemy. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, rebecca dewinter said:

George's comeuppance is that his "heir" is actually the son of his mortal enemy. 

I don't find that a comeuppance at all. Because it won't stop him from doing all the vile things he does. IF he ever finds out, he'll just treble and quadruple down on his Ross hate and continue to go on as he has. He needs his arse KICKED and PUMMELED and to be COWED. I wouldn't mind seeing him at the mercy of the very tenants whose livelihoods he's taken away.

[rebecca dewinter]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't find that a comeuppance at all. Because it won't stop him from doing all the vile things he does. IF he ever finds out, he'll just treble and quadruple down on his Ross hate and continue to go on as he has. He needs his arse KICKED and PUMMELED and to be COWED. I wouldn't mind seeing him at the mercy of the very tenants whose livelihoods he's taken away.

Villains work best from a position of strength though.. otherwise there's not much threat. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

On 11/2/2017 at 6:07 PM, rebecca dewinter said:

Villains work best from a position of strength though.. otherwise there's not much threat. 

Unless a certain sort of amphibian is around.

[LJones41]

Maybe some of their problems were her own doing by constantly mooning over Ross, but Francis was really irrationally jealous almost immediately and then treated her badly for it even though she technically did nothing wrong - she can't exactly help it if she's more attracted to Ross, but she never betrayed Francis to deserve his wrath.

 

I agree with most of what you had to say, except for one thing.  Elizabeth didn't "constantly moon over Ross" during her marriage to Francis.  She struggled to keep her feelings about Ross in check and was only willing to regard him as a close friend.  And she tried her very best to make her marriage to Francis successful.  In the end, it was George who made insinuations to Francis about Elizabeth's continuing feelings for Ross at an assembly dance that set Francis on his path of ugly behavior.

[rebecca dewinter]

1 hour ago, LJones41 said:

I agree with most of what you had to say, except for one thing.  Elizabeth didn't "constantly moon over Ross" during her marriage to Francis.  She struggled to keep her feelings about Ross in check and was only willing to regard him as a close friend.  And she tried her very best to make her marriage to Francis successful.  In the end, it was George who made insinuations to Francis about Elizabeth's continuing feelings for Ross at an assembly dance that set Francis on his path of ugly behavior.

Maybe it's different in the books, but I personally felt like on the show, Elizabeth was making heart eyes at Ross every time they were in a room together. Which is more obvious to a viewer cause there's close-ups of the actors' faces all the time, but wouldn't have been clear to Francis who for some reason, kept leaving Ross and Elizabeth alone and then would whine about it later when they looked too smitten with each other, like dude make up your damn mind.

Also people can usually tell when a spouse is emotionally not all there in the marriage.

[LJones41]

Quote

Maybe it's different in the books, but I personally felt like on the show, Elizabeth was making heart eyes at Ross every time they were in a room together. Which is more obvious to a viewer cause there's close-ups of the actors' faces all the time, but wouldn't have been clear to Francis who for some reason, kept leaving Ross and Elizabeth alone and then would whine about it later when they looked too smitten with each other, like dude make up your damn mind.

 

I never did doubt that Elizabeth's feelings for Ross had abated . . . at least until late Series 2.  But she tried damn hard to make her marriage to Francis work.  I think she finally gave up by the end of Series 1.  Unlike the novels, Elizabeth didn't cave in to Francis' guilt trip in order to make the marriage work again.

 

What is ironic about this whole matter is how Debbie Horsfield really changed Winston Graham's story - especially in regard to Elizabeth - in so many insidious ways.  The Warleggan was never really in trouble . . . until Agatha had made her insinuations about Valentine's paternity to George.  After that, George was cold and distant to Elizabeth for a while.  He was especially suspicious and paranoid.  Between Ross breaking into Trenwith, forcing Elizabeth to have sex with him, Agatha's moment of spite about Valentine's paternity and George's paranoid and suspicious behavior - Elizabeth really had a rough time of it.  

But Horsfield has made changes that affected Graham's tale . . . and not for the better.  Her changes had transformed Graham's narrative into one that seems ham fisted.

 

 

As for Ross bullying George with the toad incident . . . well, that only proved for the second time to me that in his own way, he can be just as much of a bully as George.

Edited January 18, 2018 by LJones41