S07.E01: Dragonstone

[Meredith Quill]

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Episode Synopsis:

Jon organizes the defense of the North. Cersei  tries to even the odds. Daenerys comes home.

 

[DirewolfPup]

Another year, another season. And so our watch begins.

Dragonstone was conveniently left unattended. After Stannis' defeat, wouldn't somebody be declared the new lord.  Is it like Harrenhall? It's a castle of rocks, so no one wants it just has Harrenhall was a burnt wasteland? I would at least expect some squatters on the property. Animals? Anyone?

Ed Sheeran is part of the cast now. Nothing took me out of the story faster than seeing a pop star randomly in Westeros. Bad call, I'd say.

I recall some spitballers thought after Yara and Theon joined with Dany, Urine Greyjoy would team up with the Lannisters. I'm now left to wonder what the gift he is going to give her. The head of one of her enemies, but which one. There are so many to choose from. Also, as Cersei and Jamie are aware, Tyrion is with Dany but no mention of my new favorite character, Varys. (My previous favorite was Margaery Tyrell. RIP). He must be the stealthiest of the stealthy.

[gingerella]

I knew in the first scene that Frey was Arya, and when the camera panned over the hall and all the idiot inbred Freys were present I knew it would be an Arya Revenge Slaughter. Good on her! She is putting her shape shifting skills from A Man to excellent use thus far.  I predict that Arya may be the one who kills Cersei finally, though I predict she will present herself as either Jamie or one of Cersei's dead children...You heard it here first!

Yeah Pup, nee, the sighting of Sheeran was a mis step of the highest order. Lame as fuck, I'd say. A Show does NOT need celeb cameos and anyone could have sung a damn song, it feels like the show runners bent over for some favor to someone. For what they paid him I'd rather have a full fucking season.  THERE, I said it.

Sansa is clearly over any infatuation with LF, but he seems to still be pining for her, oblivious as to how badly he has hurt her physically, mentally, in all ways, by farming her out to Ramsey. I could see Arya killing him off for Sansa if Arya and Sansa reunite soon. In fact, I could see Arya with Sansa's face, wooing LF and then killing him just as he's about to think he's getting some action...but then again, I dont think Arya can take the face of someone who is alive, or can she? I'm a wee bit confused right now about that bit so if any fellow Spitball Wall brethren can help me out, I'd be grateful!

I didn't think much of the KL/Cersei/Jamie scene, it seems like she's clueless and he's living in reality land. Nobody likes them, whatever. And as obnoxious and crass as Urine is, I suspect the gift he wants to give her is Tyrion's head. Just guessing here, since he clearly likes to kill people. His comments about killing brothers and having two good hands were, however, rather amusing, I must give him that.

As gross and disgusting as the scene was where poor Sam was doing his chores, I did think the editing of that segment was fabulous. And of course Sam finds where the stash of dragon glass is, GO SAM! So THIS is how Dany and Jon will connect...Sam will send a raven to Jon about where to find the dragon glass, and Jon - or an emissary of his - will travel post haste to Dragonstone to begin mining...as if they have time to mine, but A Show asks A Viewer to suspend belief that Urine's Ironborn losers could fashion the world's biggest armada -or armatha, since apparently Urine speaks fluent Ironborn Catalan...insert side eye here.... - given that I saw nary a shrub on the Iron Islands let alone enough timber to fashion that many ships...Hello, showrunners? Bullshit is calling...we'll hold...

I assume that was Jorah's hand that we saw grabbing at Sam and asking if the Dragon Queen had landed yet, yes? I am trying to imagine how he ended up in what seems like a locked cell at the Citadel, but then again, perhaps he went there seeking a cure from the wise men who allegedly reside there, and they have him on lock down so he does not infect others with his greyscale.

I too, thought it odd that not even a squatter was to be found at Dragonstone...how weird. I mean, even if the majority of the household decamped with Stannis, surely there would be a staff left behind to guard the fortress. Unless the Red Witch told Stannis to bring everyone and leave the castle empty for some LoL reason. OTOH, Dany seemed like she was "Home", but OTOH she also seemed like a stranger in a place that was supposed to be the ultimate "Home". I did like how they ended the epi with "let's get to work". Indeed, it's gonna be a long, long, crazy, crazy night.

Speaking of LoL, I very much enjoyed the scene with The Hound, Berick Dondarrion, and his other sidekicks, but all I could think of was BURYTHEDAMNBODIESGUYS!  I mean, if they know what's coming and know about the army of the dead, shouldn't they know to burn the bodies? Also, it was weird the whole "look into the flames, what do you see?" Didn't The Hound know anything about the WWs and the Zombonies? I thought he did.

Speaking of Zombonies...and zomponies...that scene was a bit better than any of the previous WW/Zomboni/Zompony scenes we've had to date, IMO. I usually find that those scenes break my concentration because they look so ridiculous but I guess the foggy shroud helped to make it less ridiculous? Jury's still out on that one.

Overall, a good start to S7, though I am still highly disgruntled about the lack of a full 10 episodes...

Edited July 18, 2017 by gingerella

[Anothermi]

3 hours ago, gingerella said:

Speaking of Zombonies...and zomponies...that scene was a bit better than any of the previous WW/Zomboni/Zompony scenes we've had to date, IMO.

My thoughts when I saw the army of the dead was that they are looking a LOT healthier (ironically) than previous times. The WW looked less scrawny, but that could be explained by the onset of Winter. Stands to reason ice-men might thicken like icicles do. But I didn't expect the Dead to put on w(e)ight.  Wight pun intended. I crack myself up.  >.<

ETA: It's too late to post coherent thoughts, and there was plenty of food for thought, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Anothermi

[DirewolfPup]

The mechanics of how the faceless men work (I guess that's the right verb for this) are unclear and confusing.  Way back in Season 2 (3?) when J'agen Hagar changed his face as he left Arya, he didn't need to "put" a face on. He didn't touch his face at all. He turned away, and turned back to reveal a whole different face. 

Now, I do believe that a person has to be dead to use their face. The faces in the grand face hall are the faces that the faceless men can use. The only way to get a face in that hall is to kill them or have them die. My main head-scratching questions surround how they get possession of the faces for use. Obviously, Arya got Walder's by killing him. Does this mean that the Frey-pie serving version of Arya killed a young girl just to get at Walder Frey? Can they take faces without physically being at the house of black and white? How much time does it take to transform a just-killed body into one of these faces?  What did Arya do with Walter's body? Did no one walk into the hall while she was dissecting him? So many questions...

As an aside, how long do we all think Arya paraded around as Walder Frey? I do hope that the Walder killing happened in the morning with the murder feast at night so that she wouldn't have to join the marital bed with his child bride. ("Uh, I have a headache! Gotta sleep now...")

[DirewolfPup]

oh my gosh! I forgot the most exciting part... While Sam was thumbing through the forbidden texts, was that a picture of Knifey: The Most Distinctive Dagger in Westeros?!?

[ChocButterfly]

Hey, everyone! Are you excited! I'm not that much, really. The waiting was sooooo long that I actually lost interest in the show. I know for most people the waiting was thrilling and everyone was counting the days for the Premiere, but for me is the contrary. Of course, I'm back and I'll be watching (gott see how it ends), but I'm not that into it as before.

That said, I did like the premiere. I liked Arya's revenge. Could've done without many scenes, though (ugh, Sam's!!!)

Quote

 

The mechanics of how the faceless men work (I guess that's the right verb for this) are unclear and confusing.  Way back in Season 2 (3?) when J'agen Hagar changed his face as he left Arya, he didn't need to "put" a face on. He didn't touch his face at all. He turned away, and turned back to reveal a whole different face. 

Now, I do believe that a person has to be dead to use their face. The faces in the grand face hall are the faces that the faceless men can use. The only way to get a face in that hall is to kill them or have them die. My main head-scratching questions surround how they get possession of the faces for use. Obviously, Arya got Walder's by killing him. Does this mean that the Frey-pie serving version of Arya killed a young girl just to get at Walder Frey? Can they take faces without physically being at the house of black and white? How much time does it take to transform a just-killed body into one of these faces?  What did Arya do with Walter's body? Did no one walk into the hall while she was dissecting him? So many questions..

 

I'm almost completetly sure that they need the face of someone dead and cannot just turn into anyone they want. That's the whole bussiness. I'd speculate that Jaquen could change just like that because he's a master at it. Arya left before she could finish her whole training. I'd say that actually Arya learned way too much in such a short time!! I'd also speculate that the face of the girl Arya was wearing was one of the faces she took from the Wall of Faces. I'm pretty sure Arya wouldn't kill an innocent girl just to steal her face. I also liked the scene with the soldiers, Ed Sheeran or not. It was a nice contrast of the evil soldiers we've seen in the past. These were just regular nice folks. I think that it'll help Arya learn that just because they fight for the Lannisters, they're not responsible for anything. It also helped that I really don't know Ed Sheeran that much. In fact, I didn´t even know it was him until I read it.

I also think Urine (heh!) Greyjoy is going to try to kill Tyrion for Cersei. Ugh, can you imagine Urine as Cersei's husband?! But since we know there's no way he'll kill him, I'm sure he won't get her hand in marriage.

Sansa and Jon are going to have many discussions like that in the near future....  I agree with Jon, by the way. They need all the Houses together now. Does anyone think they could end up together? You know, since they're actually cousins not siblings? Or will Jon end up marrying his aunt?? Having Littlefinger around at Winterfell is way too dangerous. I don't know what Sansa is going to do with him, but he doesn't handle rejection well...

If Sam weren't a heavy guy, he could've just climbed the Forbidden Book Section door. It looked so easy to climb!!

[walnutqueen]

6 hours ago, Anothermi said:

My thoughts when I saw the army of the dead was that they are looking a LOT healthier (ironically) than previous times. The WW looked less scrawny, but that could be explained by the onset of Winter. Stands to reason ice-men might thicken like icicles do. But I didn't expect the Dead to put on w(e)ight.  Wight pun intended. I crack myself up.  >.<

ETA: It's too late to post coherent thoughts, and there was plenty of food for thought, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.

I wonder if they're like the zombies on TWD - the fresher the kill, the better the body?  It was disturbing to see that giant walker lumbering out of the mist.

[gingerella]

Quote

 It was disturbing to see that giant walker lumbering out of the mist.

I initially thought he was the giant that was with the Free Folk but then I remembered that that dude made it through to the other side of the Wall, didn't he?

Quote

Sansa and Jon are going to have many discussions like that in the near future....  I agree with Jon, by the way. They need all the Houses together now. Does anyone think they could end up together? You know, since they're actually cousins not siblings? Or will Jon end up marrying his aunt?? Having Littlefinger around at Winterfell is way too dangerous. I don't know what Sansa is going to do with him, but he doesn't handle rejection well...

Hard to tell Choc, since intermarriage isn't a big deal in this world, either option could be possible I suppose. OTOH, J&S make a more normal match, if such a thing exists between relatives...but Sansa seems to be in a ruling mindset, whilst Dany is clearly in a break the wheel and no more rulers mindset, and the latter I could see fall more in line with Jon's way of thinking eventually. As for needing all the Northern Houses together convo, I see both sides...Sansa's seen the worst of life, far worse than Jon has in terms of what men can do to other (wo)men, so I can see her siding on the vengeance side of that convo. Whereas Jon has seen the worst of what non-men (WWs, wights, zombonies, etc.) can do, so he understands the need to consolidate the North, and anyone else in any direction really, to fight against the army of dead that's coming.

Speaking of dead and Winter...I wonder when it will finally snow in KL. It seemed like that forest on King's Road - at least I assume that's where Arya met those soldiers - was still not carpeted with any snow. I think the leaves were red though I'm not sure, so it seems that Winter moves slowly across Westeros. I wonder if it freezes the seas surrounding Westeros...just thinking aloud here, I dont think anyone's mentioned that from past stories of Winter lore.

3 hours ago, DirewolfPup said:

oh my gosh! I forgot the most exciting part... While Sam was thumbing through the forbidden texts, was that a picture of Knifey: The Most Distinctive Dagger in Westeros?!?

Was it? I must have missed that part, shit! If so, that would be awesome, though unsure of what it would mean. Do we know if Knifey has any dragon glass on it? I cant remember, was it made from Valerian steel as well?

[ChocButterfly]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

Was it? I must have missed that part, shit! If so, that would be awesome, though unsure of what it would mean. Do we know if Knifey has any dragon glass on it? I cant remember, was it made from Valerian steel as well?

I didn't see it either. But I'm pretty sure they said that Knifey was made of Valerian Steel. Every Important Weapon of Westeros is made of it.

By the way, I'm also sure I saw several giants (at least 3!) in that zombie horde. 

With what exactly is Cersei going to feed anr army if she doesn't have the Tyrell's support now? I mean, if they were starving in KL before, imagine now that Winter has finally come!

[DirewolfPup]

I will try to take a screen shot on my computer tonight. It was a random page he had open for a few seconds before seeing the Dragonstone entry. It was definitely a knife that was very distinctive. I just can't remember exactly what Knifey looked like anymore. I, too, recall either Tyrion or Littlefinger talking about it being made from Valerian steel.

Wonwon was the giant that made it past the wall and died after smashing through Ramsey's Winterfell barricade during the Battle of the Bastards.

[ChocButterfly]

You know, maybee this show is turning me, but in that scene with Arya and the 'nice soldiers' I kept either waiting for them to try to rape her, or waiting for her to kill them all. 

[gingerella]

4 minutes ago, ChocButterfly said:

You know, maybee this show is turning me, but in that scene with Arya and the 'nice soldiers' I kept either waiting for them to try to rape her, or waiting for her to kill them all. 

No Choc, it aint just you hon, I was thinking the same thing too. How could a band of Lannister armymen be so kind and caring to a girl traveling alone? A Show toys with A Viewer as much as A Man toyed with A Girl...

9 minutes ago, DirewolfPup said:

I will try to take a screen shot on my computer tonight. It was a random page he had open for a few seconds before seeing the Dragonstone entry. It was definitely a knife that was very distinctive. I just can't remember exactly what Knifey looked like anymore. I, too, recall either Tyrion or Littlefinger talking about it being made from Valerian steel.

Wonwon was the giant that made it past the wall and died after smashing through Ramsey's Winterfell barricade during the Battle of the Bastards.

Yes, Wonwon! How I liked him...pity the good ones have fallen. As I recall, there aren't many giants left anywhere so it sucks that we saw the demise of Wonwon, and then 3 Giantonies...bleh.

I'm trying to imagine what import Knifey! could have at this late date, other than be another Valerian steel knife. I forget, does Valerian steel have any impact on WWs? I cant remember.  I seem to remember it was a rather plain dagger style blade, but I dont remember if it had any embellishments on it's handle that might be dragon glass. Is it possible that Valerian steel possesses a similar property to dragon glass?

[DirewolfPup]

Valerian steel definitely kills WW. Jon's sword (now Edd's sword) was Valerian steel and killed WW. Valerian steel and Dragonglass both kill WW to my knowledge. And fire possibly.

[gingerella]

Ah, so Knifey! is still in the Game, so to speak. I suspect that LF has it, I dont know why other than he saw it firsthand, yes? And he has a way of "acquiring" things to use for a rainy day.

[Anothermi]

8 hours ago, DirewolfPup said:

oh my gosh! I forgot the most exciting part... While Sam was thumbing through the forbidden texts, was that a picture of Knifey: The Most Distinctive Dagger in Westeros?!?

I saw that too. And I squee-d. It sure looked like it.

As ChocButterfly said. Knifey was made of Valerian steel, but we know that material also can kill WW. Jon's sword is Valerian steel as well and he killed at least one WW with it at Hardhome.  I look forward to what you find in your freeze framing expedition.

ETA: Heh. I should read 1st and post after. That would avoid making redundant posts.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Anothermi

[janjan]

Hello, Dearest Spitters.

I was so sure the soldiers would attack Arya and she would kill them all. I'm normally a peaceable soul, but GoT does that to me.

That was definitely Jorah in the cell at the Citadel. Iain Glenn was in the credits, and the CCs identified the voice as Jorah when he spoke. What I can't get past is that Jorah got greyscale from a momentary brush with a victim, but he definitely took Dany's hand to lead her away when the gold-faced baddies attacked at the Mereen games. Why is she ok? (Not that I wish greyscale on her.) (Or on anyone.)

I disagree that LF has the hots for Sansa. He just wants to add the North to the kingdom he is angling for.

Where is Ghost? Heeeeere, Ghost. Bad puppy, get over here right now.

Come to think of it, isn't it time for Nimyria to rejoin Arya now that she's back in Westeros? What a pair of bad-ass ladies.

[DirewolfPup]

3 hours ago, janjan said:

Come to think of it, isn't it time for Nimyria to rejoin Arya now that she's back in Westeros? What a pair of bad-ass ladies.

I will always and forever been expecting those two to meet up. If we get Benjen back, Nymeria is certainly not out of the question.  Knifey! and Gendry. The whole gang!

[DirewolfPup]

Got the screen grab!  I actually transcribed the whole page. There's nothing very telling. Just that dragonglass is used for ornamentation for rich people.

Transcription of the page as best as I could read it:

"The Valerians were familiar with dragon glass long before they came to Westerns. They called it (zirfyl perzyl) which translates to ‘frozen fire’ in Valerian, and eastern texts tell of how their dragons would thaw the stone with dragon flame until it became molten and malleable. The Valerians then used it to build their strange monuments and buildings without seams and joints of our modern castles.

When Aegon the Conqueror forged his Seven Kingdoms, he and his descendants would often decorate their blades with dragon glass, feeling a kinship with the stone. The royal fashion for dragon glass ornamentation soon spread throughout the Seven Kingdoms to those wealthy enough to afford it. Hilts and pommels were and are the most common decoration for dragon glass if too brittle to make a useful crossxxxx (?). Indeed, its very brittleness is what relegates it to the great houses and the most successful merchants."

 

[gingerella]

3 hours ago, janjan said:

I disagree that LF has the hots for Sansa. He just wants to add the North to the kingdom he is angling for.

Where is Ghost? Heeeeere, Ghost. Bad puppy, get over here right now.

Come to think of it, isn't it time for Nimyria to rejoin Arya now that she's back in Westeros? What a pair of bad-ass ladies.

Aye Janjan, welcome home! So you really dont think LF would succumb to Sansa's womanly charms should she choose to throw some his way? I feel like that's his achilles heel...It's not Cat, but it's her daughter, so a younger more beautiful version of Cat, win win for someone with a Napolean complex like LF. Potato Patahto I guess...

Holy shit, I totally forgot that when Meera and Bran were taken into the Wall tunnel, Ghost was not with them so he's still outside roaming around. I wonder how that will resolve. I certainly hope the showrunners get how much we all love the direwolves by now. Speaking of which, this would be exactly the perfect time for Nymeria and Arya to reunite! Arya needs companionship in her quest to kill Cersei, if indeed she is heading for KL and not Winterfell, and Nymeria would be the perfect companion. It would be interesting for Arya to experience warging into Nymeria, if that's something she can do but doesn't yet know about.  I'm with you Pup, always hoping for a Nymeria/Arya reunion! Those woods like more or less similar to the woods where she let Nymeria go too, dont they? Wasn't that along the King's Road? I assume that's where they were in this recent scene as well but perhaps I'm mistaken.

32 minutes ago, DirewolfPup said:

Got the screen grab!  I actually transcribed the whole page. There's nothing very telling. Just that dragonglass is used for ornamentation for rich people.

Transcription of the page as best as I could read it:

"The Valerians were familiar with dragon glass long before they came to Westerns. They called it (zirfyl perzyl) which translates to ‘frozen fire’ in Valerian, and eastern texts tell of how their dragons would thaw the stone with dragon flame until it became molten and malleable. The Valerians then used it to build their strange monuments and buildings without seams and joints of our modern castles.

When Aegon the Conqueror forged his Seven Kingdoms, he and his descendants would often decorate their blades with dragon glass, feeling a kinship with the stone. The royal fashion for dragon glass ornamentation soon spread throughout the Seven Kingdoms to those wealthy enough to afford it. Hilts and pommels were and are the most common decoration for dragon glass if too brittle to make a useful crossxxxx (?). Indeed, its very brittleness is what relegates it to the great houses and the most successful merchants."

Pup, you are a rock star amongst Spitballers! That is a great read, a thousand thanks to you! I dont remember but did Dragonstone look like it was made of dragonglass? I need to re watch that scene. I wonder if they could literally disassemble the castle and use it as weaponry? Also, was Knifey! on the left or right page? I seem to remember it looking like the knife on the left page but again, it was a long time ago...

Edited July 18, 2017 by gingerella

[WhiteStumbler]

Knifey! More famous than we realized!! Even got his own spread in some ponderous tome. Good catch.

I would do a lot of dark things for a copy of the book Gilly had - Legends of the Long Night.

Great stuff y'all. I think the infected area of greyscale has to touch skin, so Dany was OK touching Jorah's hand. He told Daario "don't worry, it didn't touch you," not "I didn't touch you". Touching his arm would, I think, have been different.

I thought Arya wiping out House Frey at the Red Feast was soooo wonderful and soooo sad. A Girl and A Hound are on two different trajectories - as he is regaining his humanity and becoming more than an agent of death (who once proudly proclaimed "killing is the sweetest thing there is"), as Arya has become capable of wiping out an entire house with just a smirk. It was justice, but it is a dark place that Arya is in. She has gone a little mad from all that she has been through (Barristan said "the Mad King gave his enemies the justice he thought they deserved, and each time, it made him feel powerful and right, until the very end"), but there is still a friendly girl somewhere in there, one capable of not killing some soldiers just because of the color jersey they wear. Sort of a change from her interactions after the Red Wedding when she killed those Lannister soldiers (though they were sniggering about attaching Robb's direwolf's head to his body, so that might have triggered her some). I hope her enemies list doesn't get any longer.

And when did the Lannisters start enlisting relatively normal people, who aren't psycho-killers, to serve in their army? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel in the Lannister lands. And I saw some complaints about one of the Lannister lads being a pop star? I didn't recognize him, and it totally worked for me. He had a nice voice and seemed to play the part well, though he seemed a little soft to be a soldier. Did anyone else catch the Lannister lad lamenting that the dragon pit in Kings Landing was "a damn ruin"? Did the Targaryens fight dragons with each other like the fighting pits of Mereen, or did men battle dragons for the (fleeting) amusement of Targaryen nobility? Or is that just a place where the current Targaryen ruler (AKA The Dragon) could go to mope when they were feeling "in the pits"? :-)

I loved seeing Pod becoming a capable swordsman, but I hope he hears the words of Bronn: "You want to fight pretty, or you want to win?" Brienne seems to know both (she knows her footwork, but also was fighting The Hound with every trick she had in their battle). I hope Pod remembers that.

Ned Umber and Alice Karstark broke my heart a little. Two children, one named Ned and the other tall with red hair like Sansa, whose dead fathers were accused of treason, standing before a King who had the power to send them and their family out into the snow just as Winter truly comes to Westeros.

Gods, Dany coming to Westeros was magnificently done. The look of the place was fantastic, slightly... alien compared to all the other throne rooms and castles we have seen so far in this world. The scale of the place was enormous. The dragons looked excited to see their new home.

Worst line... Cersi: A dynasty for us, then. Me: I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Best line contenders...
Arya: When people ask you what happened here tell them the North remembers. Tell them winter came for House Frey.
Lyanna: I don't plan on knitting by the fire while men fight for me. I might be small, Lord Glover, and I might be a girl, but I am every bit as much a Northerner as you.
Hound: It's my fucking luck I end up with a band of fire worshipers.
Dany: Shall we begin?

3 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Holy shit, I totally forgot that when Meera and Bran were taken into the Wall tunnel, Ghost was not with them so he's still outside roaming around.

Ginger, remember that Ghost is in Winterfell with Jon. Bran's direwolf died at the Three Eyed Raven cave. <sniff>

[Anothermi]

Welome back White Stumbler! Your attention to detail, prodigious memory (or memory tools) and slightly left of centre perspective have been missed.

32 minutes ago, WhiteStumbler said:

Knifey! More famous than we realized!! Even got his own spread in some ponderous tome. Good catch.

Adding this screengrab of Knifey resting on a book (THE Ponderous Tome perchance?) in Ned's rooms. It's only the hilt, but it is a match to the one Pup provided. No, not just some ordinary expensive knife. I'd call that proof positive - what with the write up in Daggers' Quarterly and all. 

But now I wonder if Longclaw (Jon's Sword from Commander Mormont) has Dragon Stone decoration as well, and it is not the Valyrian steel, but the power of Dragon Glass magnified by Valyrian steel that made it fatal to the WWs?

1 hour ago, DirewolfPup said:

Got the screen grab!  I actually transcribed the whole page. There's nothing very telling. Just that dragonglass is used for ornamentation for rich people.

Transcription of the page as best as I could read it:

"The Valerians were familiar with dragon glass long before they came to Westerns. They called it (zirfyl perzyl) which translates to ‘frozen fire’ in Valerian, and eastern texts tell of how their dragons would thaw the stone with dragon flame until it became molten and malleable. The Valerians then used it to build their strange monuments and buildings without seams and joints of our modern castles.

When Aegon the Conqueror forged his Seven Kingdoms, he and his descendants would often decorate their blades with dragon glass, feeling a kinship with the stone. The royal fashion for dragon glass ornamentation soon spread throughout the Seven Kingdoms to those wealthy enough to afford it. Hilts and pommels were and are the most common decoration for dragon glass if too brittle to make a useful crossxxxx (?). Indeed, its very brittleness is what relegates it to the great houses and the most successful merchants."

 

** Bows down to the PUP's prodigious ancient script cyphering skilz.**  I gave it a try, but nothing as complete as you've managed!  Hope you can see the markings on the hilt that prove that illustration is our very own Knifey.

There is also an officially sanctioned website that sells a replica of that knife, so I'll link to a photo of the whole knife (photo only) to further show the likeness of the illustration and our Knifey.

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

I dont remember but did Dragonstone look like it was made of dragonglass?

The big thing Sam found in the ponderous tome he was reading was that Dragonstone was sitting on a veritable (underground) mountain of Dragonglass. He said he'd write to Jon about it.

Now I wonder if the beautifully carved Dragon on the wall of the Map Room, that Tyrion was inspecting so closely, was made of Dragon Glass (without seams as per the info provided by Pup).

[janjan]

The Stumbler is back!! YAY!!!

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Worst line... Cersi: A dynasty for us, then. Me: I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Inconceivable!

[gingerella]

Now that I think about it, I remember wondering if the throne at Dragonstone is perhaps made of dragon glass? It looked...odd...and Dany looked at it in a way that was interesting, though that said, I don't think Dany knows what dragon glass does. it's possible she doesn't even know what it is, right? she was spirited away as a baby IIRC. I think right now, nobody in KL knows what dragon glass does, and while the scholars and maesters at The Citadel might know about it, they probably don't know if it's folklore or reality because as that one dude said to Sam, something about everyone knows that Summer always comes again, so they seem to feel that Winter is just a technicality, not that it can bring the Army of the Dead. 

Hmmm, I am also wondering if flaming pigshit would take out WWs and wights...?

WS, your best quotes was fab! I forgot to mention how totally badASS little Lyanna Mormont was yet again. that kid is my fav.

Edited July 18, 2017 by gingerella

[janjan]

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Choc:  Aryasasin

Good one!

[DirewolfPup]

"The Valerians then used it [dragonglass] to build their strange monuments and buildings without seams and joints of our modern castles."

Is it possible that the whole Dragonstone castle is made from dragon glass?

And thank you, Anothermi, for the screen shots of Knifey! from the show. That was my next endeavor. so you've saved me precious time. For that, I thank thee. I'm just surprised I remembered what it looked like at all. I remember the curved blade, but not much else.

So... to give Knifey! a full biography.  Someone sent a third-rate assassin to kill Bran stark with a famous dagger that was so beautiful and ornamental, that it was illustrated in a Maester's tome. Ned Stark was the last one to be seen with it (?). Littlefinger claimed it was his (how did he afford THAT?) and lost it in a bet to Tyrion Lannister. Tyrion was never asked about said dagger at any point. Since we now know that Bran is a warg, is there any chance that the person who tried to assassinate him wasn't a King's Landing-er? Could it be someone that also has magical foresight and was trying to help the WW win? That's a major spitball there.... In reality, it was probably Joffrey.

[janjan]

You're right about LF and Sansa's womanly charms, Ginger. I forgot about LF's life-long obsession with Cat, so much that he made a move on her over her husband's bones. (Ick.) His look was more than usually sly when Sansa was undermining Jon. Betcha he's going to encourage that so she makes moves to be Queen in the North (possibly while Jon is away at Dragonstone collecting weapons and falling ass over teakettle for his aunt Dany.) (I've always been a Jon + Dany shipper.) So Game of Thrones will become the Battle of the Queens.

Speaking of ick, there's Urine. Ick. Ladies and Gentlemen, lay your bets. After his smart-ass jibe about having two hands, how long will it take Jaime to cut one of them off?

Houndie sees visions? He saw the walkers in the flames!? Has he been warging the Stumbler all along, just pretending to be an avatar while instead providing our Stumbler's visionary spitballs? Clearly, the Hound has a big part to play in events to come. How about this: Houndie and Dondarrian fight the WWs, while Jon joins Dany in the Battle of the Queens. And Sam miraculously cures Jorah so they become the best buddy movie since Jaime and Brienne.

Edited July 18, 2017 by janjan

[Llywela]

Greetings, one and all! I've been trying and failing to get a chance to post here all day, Life just doesn't play ball sometimes, so now I've got loads of catching up to do.

On 17/07/2017 at 6:14 AM, gingerella said:

I too, thought it odd that not even a squatter was to be found at Dragonstone...how weird. I mean, even if the majority of the household decamped with Stannis, surely there would be a staff left behind to guard the fortress. Unless the Red Witch told Stannis to bring everyone and leave the castle empty for some LoL reason. OTOH, Dany seemed like she was "Home", but OTOH she also seemed like a stranger in a place that was supposed to be the ultimate "Home". I did like how they ended the epi with "let's get to work". Indeed, it's gonna be a long, long, crazy, crazy night.

Dragonstone certainly was very conveniently empty, but it also looked pretty bleak, so I guess if Stannis took the vast bulk of his people with him on his campaign north, the few left behind might not have found staying there sustainable once news came of his death, so moved on in search of somewhere more habitable and hospitable - either that or the bailiffs came calling! After all, Stannis did take out that huge loan with the Iron Bank just before he died - speaking of which, we've seen them make a few hefty loans that proved to be incredibly poor investments, yet there's been no sign of them either taking steps to call in the loans or going bust as a result!

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Speaking of LoL, I very much enjoyed the scene with The Hound, Berick Dondarrion, and his other sidekicks, but all I could think of was BURYTHEDAMNBODIESGUYS!  I mean, if they know what's coming and know about the army of the dead, shouldn't they know to burn the bodies? Also, it was weird the whole "look into the flames, what do you see?" Didn't The Hound know anything about the WWs and the Zombonies? I thought he did.

I've completely lost track of who knows what - but I don't think the Hound would know anything about WWs and Zombonies. He's spent most of his time on the show either in King's Landing or on the road, first with Arya and then with that hippy preacher dude last season, so he's had no occasion to learn the truth about what's beyond the Wall.

Got to admit, I had completely forgotten Berick Dondarrion and couldn't for the life of me work out at first who the Hound was with now!

On 17/07/2017 at 1:50 PM, DirewolfPup said:

The mechanics of how the faceless men work (I guess that's the right verb for this) are unclear and confusing.  Way back in Season 2 (3?) when J'agen Hagar changed his face as he left Arya, he didn't need to "put" a face on. He didn't touch his face at all. He turned away, and turned back to reveal a whole different face. 

Now, I do believe that a person has to be dead to use their face. The faces in the grand face hall are the faces that the faceless men can use. The only way to get a face in that hall is to kill them or have them die. My main head-scratching questions surround how they get possession of the faces for use. Obviously, Arya got Walder's by killing him. Does this mean that the Frey-pie serving version of Arya killed a young girl just to get at Walder Frey? Can they take faces without physically being at the house of black and white? How much time does it take to transform a just-killed body into one of these faces?  What did Arya do with Walter's body? Did no one walk into the hall while she was dissecting him? So many questions...

As an aside, how long do we all think Arya paraded around as Walder Frey? I do hope that the Walder killing happened in the morning with the murder feast at night so that she wouldn't have to join the marital bed with his child bride. ("Uh, I have a headache! Gotta sleep now...")

Well, Walder!Arya did say that this was the second feast in a fortnight, and didn't she kill Walder right after the last feast? So I guess that's how long she's been masquerading as Walder! Ick. I liked, though, that she made a point of not allowing Walder's child bride to drink the poisoned wine. She's not so far gone that she's willing to allow collateral damage like that. And while it was weird to see Ed Sheeran pop up, I did appreciate about her scene with the soldiers the reminder it gave that beneath all that badassery, Arya is still a very vulnerable young girl.

On 17/07/2017 at 3:40 PM, ChocButterfly said:

I also think Urine (heh!) Greyjoy is going to try to kill Tyrion for Cersei. Ugh, can you imagine Urine as Cersei's husband?! But since we know there's no way he'll kill him, I'm sure he won't get her hand in marriage.

Sansa and Jon are going to have many discussions like that in the near future....  I agree with Jon, by the way. They need all the Houses together now. Does anyone think they could end up together? You know, since they're actually cousins not siblings? Or will Jon end up marrying his aunt?? Having Littlefinger around at Winterfell is way too dangerous. I don't know what Sansa is going to do with him, but he doesn't handle rejection well...

I like about Show that the moment Euron promised Cersei a 'gift', I started worrying about who and what he's going to go after - Tyrion is the obvious, but he could also try for Sansa, for e.g., and there's still enough unpredictability in the show that we can't be certain he won't succeed in taking out someone significant, or at least that he won't succeed in causing terrible collateral damage in the attempt. Also, did he always have such a weird accent?

On 17/07/2017 at 6:08 PM, gingerella said:

Hard to tell Choc, since intermarriage isn't a big deal in this world, either option could be possible I suppose. OTOH, J&S make a more normal match, if such a thing exists between relatives...but Sansa seems to be in a ruling mindset, whilst Dany is clearly in a break the wheel and no more rulers mindset, and the latter I could see fall more in line with Jon's way of thinking eventually. As for needing all the Northern Houses together convo, I see both sides...Sansa's seen the worst of life, far worse than Jon has in terms of what men can do to other (wo)men, so I can see her siding on the vengeance side of that convo. Whereas Jon has seen the worst of what non-men (WWs, wights, zombonies, etc.) can do, so he understands the need to consolidate the North, and anyone else in any direction really, to fight against the army of dead that's coming.

Is intermarriage within a family not a big deal in this world? I've a vague idea the Targaryens were into that sort of thing, but we haven't really seen it in any of the other families - and everyone has seemed pretty icked out by Cersei and Jaime, although of course the treason is a big part of that.

I'm really enjoying the dynamic between Jon and Sansa - long-lost siblings clinging to one another as all they have left, yet such very different people with very different traumas behind them and very different outlooks. I desperately want Edd to get a message to them about Bran - or better yet, to send Bran to them! I want the remaining Starks to be reunited! But Arya seems to be heading in the other direction entirely, for now, so I'll settle for getting Bran to Jon and Sansa.

20 hours ago, janjan said:

I was so sure the soldiers would attack Arya and she would kill them all. I'm normally a peaceable soul, but GoT does that to me.

Yeah, I know - in this show, it always pays to expect the worst from any given scene!

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I disagree that LF has the hots for Sansa. He just wants to add the North to the kingdom he is angling for.

I suspect he wants both - he wants more land and power, but he also wants Sansa.

16 hours ago, WhiteStumbler said:

And when did the Lannisters start enlisting relatively normal people, who aren't psycho-killers, to serve in their army? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel in the Lannister lands.

I daresay the bulk of the Lannister army has always been made up of relatively normal people caught up in circumstances beyond their control, simply following orders wherever they may lead. That scene was a good reminder for us, as well as for Arya, that even average, decent people we might be friends with in normal circumstances can end up on the opposing side in time of war, that not all enemies are monsters, that sometimes enemies are just perfectly ordinary people whose loyalties happen to lie on the other side - that every foot soldier (every individual, really) has the potential for both good and evil in the right circumstances.

15 hours ago, gingerella said:

Now that I think about it, I remember wondering if the throne at Dragonstone is perhaps made of dragon glass? It looked...odd...and Dany looked at it in a way that was interesting, though that said, I don't think Dany knows what dragon glass does. it's possible she doesn't even know what it is, right? she was spirited away as a baby IIRC. I think right now, nobody in KL knows what dragon glass does, and while the scholars and maesters at The Citadel might know about it, they probably don't know if it's folklore or reality because as that one dude said to Sam, something about everyone knows that Summer always comes again, so they seem to feel that Winter is just a technicality, not that it can bring the Army of the Dead.

Yeah, I also wondered if the throne might be dragonglass, it did look odd - I don't think the castle is, though. Sam's book seemed to indicate a stash under the castle, rather than composing it, and that ties in with what he said Stannis told Jon.

[Anothermi]

10 hours ago, DirewolfPup said:

Tyrion was never asked about said dagger at any point.

He may not have been asked, but he did speak about it to Catelyn enroute to the Eyrie back in Season One. He didn't actually say "It's not mine. I never owned a dagger." But he scoffed at anyone who would give an assassin such a distinctive dagger.

Ah, I found the bit I was looking for. It's from S01E05: The Wolf and the Lion.

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I had nothing to do with the attempt on your son's life.

The dagger found ... What sort of imbecile arms an assassin with his own blade?

 

15 hours ago, ChipBach said:

Aryasasin.

Yes, good one ChipBach. And welcome bach back. Make yourself comfortable, have a grog.

 

On 2017-07-17 at 7:32 PM, WhiteStumbler said:

I thought Arya wiping out House Frey at the Red Feast was soooo wonderful and soooo sad. A Girl and A Hound are on two different trajectories - as he is regaining his humanity and becoming more than an agent of death (who once proudly proclaimed "killing is the sweetest thing there is"), as Arya has become capable of wiping out an entire house with just a smirk. It was justice, but it is a dark place that Arya is in. She has gone a little mad from all that she has been through (Barristan said "the Mad King gave his enemies the justice he thought they deserved, and each time, it made him feel powerful and right, until the very end"), but there is still a friendly girl somewhere in there, one capable of not killing some soldiers just because of the color jersey they wear. Sort of a change from her interactions after the Red Wedding when she killed those Lannister soldiers (though they were sniggering about attaching Robb's direwolf's head to his body, so that might have triggered her some). I hope her enemies list doesn't get any longer.

Truly, the juxtaposition of Arya and Sandor, since parting, is wonderfully presented.

IIRC by last season Arya had only 3 people left on her list. Walder Frey (check), Cercei Lannister & Gregor Clegane. I don't see her adding to that list at this point. So, of course she is heading to Kings Landing. She has spent all this time since her father's death longing for revenge. She single mindedly became a faceless woman in order to accomplish it. Her raison d'etre at this point is revenge. So, it's a twist that I appreciate (and also didn't expect) that the Lannister Guards scene is the start of the same kind of awareness (if not Epiphany) that the Hound has developed. 

The Hound, when we first met him, was a little mad from what he had been through. He too, started out as normal as Arya did until his brother & his parents (no less!) taught him he was worthless to them. His life's goal was to never let anyone hurt him first again. Arya's fiestiness, which he could relate to, tempered with the humanity learned from her parents (which he had never learned) became lessons for him. (also Sansa's willingness to treat him as human - if tinged with a little fear at first).

Arya showed him that you don't have to kill everyone you steal from out of necessity. Knocking them out was enough (hee!). Generally though, this didn't apply to soldiers. ;-)

The dead father and girl in the house he stayed in this episode was a call back to Season 4 when he & Arya accept the hospitality of this same family but the Hound steals the silver he said he'd work for (despite Arya's protests) and leaves the father injured saying that the family would be dead come winter anyways.

Since that time the Hound had been beaten in a fair fight by (a girl!) Brienne, left for dead by Arya, found by another kind and welcoming man and nursed back to life. He got to spend time learning that there really are some good people in this world. He became just Sandor. Another human. Still jaded, but now aware of the wrongs he had perpetrated. In this scene, he clearly regretted what he had done to the family that had offered him nothing but hospitality. He was no longer blinded by fright and hate. Perhaps that is why he could see what he saw in the flames?

Edited July 19, 2017 by Anothermi
it Brienne, not Breinne

[WhiteStumbler]

Urine: I don't expect you to trust me outright. You need proof of my honest intentions. In my experience, the surest way to a woman's heart is with a gift. A priceless gift. I won't return to King's Landing until I have that for you.

This is important, I think. At first I was thinking the same as some of you, that it might be a person or persons. But who is "priceless"?
Dany, and there is no way Capt. Greyjoy can capture her.
Capturing Tyrion would be a "gift" to Cersei, but "priceless"? Plus, it is sort of narratively lazy to have Tyrion captured for the third time (after Cat and Jorah). Even without Tyrion, Dany would still have the Dothrhaki, the Unsullied, the Dornish, the Tyrell army, the fleet of Theon and Yara, and 3 dragons.
Winterfel is too far from the sea, so I think Sansa and Jon aren't in the running.

Could it be a place? Dragonstone is now occupied, so too late for that. Braavos and the gold from the Iron Bank? Maybe.

Another dragon egg (or more) would be priceless, but sort of useless without Dany (and the requisite time to grow up).

It could be dragon chains from the Warlocks of Qarth, but they have already failed once.

I think the most likely "gift" is a weapon, and here are some spitballs... (please add more)

Stone Men Army: Maybe the Stone Men are impervious to dragon fire? They live in the ruins of Valyria (on the Smoking Sea, home to "demons and flames"), so might their grayscale protect them from dragon fire? There would still be the little issue of controlling such an army, and the possibility that they could cause more harm than good, but Cersei has shown that she isn't much of a strategic thinker (see: High Sparrow, The).

New Wildfire Recipe: Perhaps Urine has a new formula for wildfire? I doubt that the Iron Islanders could come up with it, but perhaps they paid the Iron Price for it while raiding and pillaging?

Dragon-Be-Gone: Again, I don't think the Iron Islanders could come up with this on their own, but Urine might have "found" it while sailing as "the greatest captain on the 14 seas." Some sort of dragon-repellent would even the odds in a battle. Or something that does a lot of damage to dragons - like an ice spear or ice catapult, so that the dragons are driven away.

My thinking at this point is that Cersei needs something, probably an offensive or defensive weapon, to make the coming war an actual war, rather than a foregone conclusion.

[gingerella]

On 7/18/2017 at 3:21 PM, Anothermi said:

The Hound, when we first met him, was a little mad from what he had been through. He too, started out as normal as Arya did until his brother & his parents (no less!) taught him he was worthless to them. His life's goal was to never let anyone hurt him first again. Arya's fiestiness, which he could relate to, tempered with the humanity learned from her parents (which he had never learned) became lessons for him. (also Sansa's willingness to treat him as human - if tinged with a little fear at first).

Arya showed him that you don't have to kill everyone you steal from out of necessity. Knocking them out was enough (hee!). Generally though, this didn't apply to soldiers. ;-)

The dead father and girl in the house he stayed in this episode was a call back to Season 4 when he & Arya accept the hospitality of this same family but the Hound steals the silver he said he'd work for (despite Arya's protests) and leaves the father injured saying that the family would be dead come winter anyways.

Since that time the Hound had been beaten in a fair fight by (a girl!) Brienne, left for dead by Arya, found by another kind and welcoming man and nursed back to life. He got to spend time learning that there really are some good people in this world. He became just Sandor. Another human. Still jaded, but now aware of the wrongs he had perpetrated. In this scene, he clearly regretted what he had done to the family that had offered him nothing but hospitality. He was no longer blinded by fright and hate. Perhaps that is why he could see what he saw in the flames?

anothermi, I love what you're proposing here and when you lay it out so clearly I totally see it come to life...bravo!  As for Arya and her Revenge Quest, I am most looking forward to what happens once/if she fulfills her revenge list in full. I have no doubt she will assist or be the one to take out Cersei and the Mountain, but what then? She will have taken out everyone who wronged her, and then what happens to her? Will she re-humanize herself once free of the shackles of blind hate and revenge? I hope in the handful of episodes left in A Show, we can see what her path might be post-Revenge Quest...

As for Sandor, I like the notion of The Hound becoming "just Sandor". It must, on some level, be a huge relief because he too is always avenging himself in one way or the other. It would be interesting if both Sandor and Arya meet up in KL and somehow take out both Cersei and Mountain together, then have some sort of cathartic release and go their separate ways, their future fates no longer entwined because they are now free of what was tormenting both of them. They kill the thing that brought them together, and they go off in different directions...fade to black...

 

WS, you make some compelling reasons why Urine might be off to collect a "what" and not a "who" for Cersei. I still think the head in a sack is most likely, but if I think about your theory, perhaps he will set his sights on bringing her a dragon? Good luck with that Urine!

Edited July 22, 2017 by gingerella

[DirewolfPup]

When the Hound recounted what he saw in the flames, he mentioned a city under siege by a dead army next to the wall. Isn't that where the Wildlings are going?

[Anothermi]

Yeah. Jon asked Tormund & crew to hold the eastmost  Night's Watch castle because that was (apparently) the only route the WW could use.

Unsullied Index calls it East-watch by the Sea.

This better not mean the end of Tormund!!  Not until something happens between him and Brienne.

[gingerella]

Yeah, I think from what we know and what they said last week, that's the first line of defense in getting around the Wall but I wasn't sure if it was a way AROUND the Wall from Hardhome, or if they had to actually go OVER the Wall at East Gate too. Either way, it's the front lines for the zomboni ponies.  And I too, want Brienne and Tormond to bump their ginger uglies  both go off hat are probably different directions to fight this war. Realistically, they can't be in the same place fighting because every time Tormund saw Brienne slaying ass, he'd get a big Wildling boner and be distracted so it's not practical that they go off together right now. But imagine their babies, haha!

Edited July 24, 2017 by gingerella

[janjan]

On 7/23/2017 at 6:32 PM, Anothermi said:

This better not mean the end of Tormund!!  Not until something happens between him and Brienne.

I think Tormund should die a tragic but heroic death, so Brienne can end up with Jaime.

[gingerella]

Oh nooooooo Janjan! I don't want Tormund o die, though he likely willl seeing as he's headed to the front lines to stave off the Zomboni Pony squad...And I don't want Brienne o end up with Jamie now because even as deprived as he now knows his sister to be, he is still carrying our her orders for her. Jamie can piss off any time now, in fact, it would be great if he wasn't killed asap because then Cersei would literally have nobody whom she really could trust.