Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[mstaken]

Red is definitely her color, Willowy! 

 

Here's one: Which characters would your ideal team consist of? You can make it smaller or larger (or the same size!) as it is now, use current and/or former members, etc. 

[Wilowy]

Great question!

 

Profilers:

REID

Hotch

Morgan

Katie Cole

Elle Greenaway

Alex Blake

 

Media Liaison:

JJ

 

Tech Analyst:

Penelope Garcia

 

Consultants:

Medical: Dr. Kimora

Geographical/Terrain: John Blackwolf

 

Section Chief:

Dave Rossi

[mstaken]

I love how you divided them into roles, Willowy...and how you capitalized Reid's name :) 

 

My ideal team:

 

Reid, Hotch, Elle, Emily, Gideon and Rossi (with one of the latter two as section chief!) I know Mandy P. is a jerk and takes shots at the show and its fans at every opportunity, but Gideon was compelling and interesting to me. I'd enjoy seeing him try to rekindle his relationship with Reid and engage in some sparring sessions with Rossi :)  

 

Garcia can stay as the techie (yeah, I'm generous like that), but I'd prefer to see her every few episodes rather than in every single one. I have nothing against Blake, but I'd prefer a slightly smaller team and love Elle and Emily more. I'd love to see the last of JJ and Morgan, though I know that won't happen anywhere but in my CM fantasies! 

 

 

 

Geographical/Terrain: John Blackwolf

 

Amen! 

Edited May 10, 2014 by mstaken

[Wilowy]

I wanted to include Em too, but I don't know, something tells me her and Elle would clash, and I do love Emily, I do, but if push came to shove, I'd rather have Elle. Can I add Emily to my consultant list?

 

Gideon, noooo! Although I have to admit seeing him talk to Reid is very compelling! :)

[zannej]

I also liked Elle Fanning. She was a good actress for a child. So much better than the kid who later went on to play Ellie. I think the permanent smirk and the bad wig didn't help that kid.

[zannej]

I know this idea is from a fanfiction I read, but I thought it was cute. I want to see a child that asks Hotch if he's really Batman in disguise. 

 

And after seeing some short clips from Coriolanus, I want to see Tom Hiddleston play a victim that survives. Maybe he could be a witness that they have to interview. He'd be very good at it.

 

I'd also like to see a teenage girl hitting on Rossi. It would be an ego boost to him, but at the same time he'd be commenting about her being jailbait.

 

I think I've mentioned before that I'd love to see Nicholas Lea make an appearance. He could be an unsub because he's good at playing villains. And I'd love to see Gillian Anderson as a medical examiner.

 

I'd also like for Garcia to stop bragging about being a genius.

[Danielg342]

1) I do like the idea of better worldbuilding, but these writers can't even seem to flesh out the main characters enough. I get annoyed when they focus too much on unsubs or on recurring characters. Ideally, it would be great if they had some worldbuilding and fleshed it out so we could see familiar faces as a janitor or security guard and such. Unfortunately, I'm worried that these writers would lose focus and it would be a mess. If I thought they could pull it off, I would be all for it.

 

2) I have to disagree with recurring villains...It's OK on Sci-Fi shows to an extent-- when it is done well. If I had more faith in the writers perhaps I'd give it a chance, but I just don't see this group being able to pull it off. I don't know if even the original writers could have pulled it off. It's not an easy thing to write believably.

 

3) I also have to say big fat "no" to the director being involved in shady dealings. I know that there is sometimes corruption in the government, but I am sick to death of the whole thing where higher ups had shady dealings.

 

1) The writers' abilities is a good point, considering also that virtually every character that's not a main character or a villain (and sometimes not even that will do) has been a strawman. I just think it's a shame- when I'm watching Elementary even something as small as Sherlock's pet turtle Clyde adds so much to the proceedings.

 

(Also, thinking about it, wouldn't Reid have some special pets too?)

 

2) I'm not talking about CM needing a villain like Red John or Laura Palmer's killer that hangs over the show like some ominous force...I agree, those storylines and villains are usually done terribly (mostly because they're poorly planned). I'm saying the show could use a "run of the mill" villain that *does* find a way to escape, with the team not going back to the case until weeks or even years later. It'd be nothing more than the show doing its usual two-parters only that they're not back to back- just like how "No Way Out" went.

 

3) I understand the objection about the FBI Director, and it's a salient point. However, it was merely just an idea for how a cliffhanger could be constructed without putting the team's lives in danger (like the show does way too much), which is my main point. I guess this goes to show that a great cliffhanger is hard to write...but after this season's debacle, I think it's time the show doesn't go back to that well in Season 10.

 

Demonology. ;)

 

 

I believe that episode was "The Gathering." 

 

OK...so, technically I'm not correct that the show hasn't had snow...but...but...I think we can agree it hasn't happened nearly as often as it should. We've had Wyoming in January ("Risky Business"), the team in Alaska ("Exit Wounds"), a winter fair ("Mosley Lane") and an episode in Baltimore in February where Rossi even remarks that the temperature was 20F...and in not one of those cases was there snow (and in the latter case, we even got rain). It's a little unbelievable, don't you think?

[kikismom]

We've been talking about this recently because of many news articles about the economy and social changes. I wish they would stop having the team look up people and say "Ohh, he/she lives alone!" of " Ohhh, he/she lives with parents"...do these people ever read a newspaper? A huge percentage of people are single and live alone now, and though not as many live with their parents, a whole lot have gone back to live at home--there's even a name for it "the boomerang generation". It's not 1952 for cryin out loud, people don't all get married right out of high school and move into a cottage. It's like saying "oooh, she's a dangerous type, 25 years old and still not married that's abnormal". The BAU (at least as portrayed on this show) seems to be operating from a list of "suspect characteristics" from the Eisenhower era.

[zannej]

Danielg, thank you for the clarification. I'd be ok with them going back and catching some of the ones that got away at a later point. Showing that they are still working on cases over the years because it really can take time. Just look at one of the first cases that profilers were involved in-- the abduction of a child. It took years and a lot of working with the mother of the child to finally catch the guy. I think the victim had the last name Yaeger (something like that). The profilers predicted that she was killed and that the man who took her would call back to brag. A year after the abduction, the guy called at almost the exact time he'd kidnapped the girl. The mother had been coached and instead of being angry, she was nice to him and said she was worried about him. The guy went from being all pompous and bragging about taking the girl to sobbing and asking permission to hang up because he felt guilty.

 

I would also love to see some followup to some of the cases where unsubs survived where we see the team in court having to deal with BS from the defense team. I know that might be a bit too much like law & order, but one of my favorite scenes was Hotch in court totally owning the defense attorney (while never raising his voice or speaking in a rude tone). He was very matter-of-fact and polite. I would love to see them pull something up that involved a case Hotch handled as a prosecutor.

 

Kikismom, very good points. I think one of the problems with the show is that I don't think the profiling is up-to-date. Things have changed in psychology. Social dynamics have shifted. Things that were taboo are now accepted. Things that were accepted are now taboo. Things people used to be ashamed of or shunned for are now things which people are proud of and applauded for. I wish they would actually take more consideration into cultural differences. The INS guidebooks used to have info on how to deal with people from other cultures. Understanding their taboos and such helped with interviewing. There were certain things that you should never say unless you really wanted to upset them. I can't remember which culture it was but my father was saying that people from that culture had a superstition that if you say "What if x happens" they believed that it would happen, and that even suggesting it was basically jinxing them or cursing them. It was considered somewhat threatening. There are also things in body language. Eye contact is considered rude in some places, whereas lack of eye contact is considered rude or suspicious in others.

 

I can't remember in which thread I read it (or even if it was this forum), where someone was saying things about the team being in jeopardy making them look bad for having so many enemies. A LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) doesn't have to do anything wrong or badly in order to have enemies. Sometimes just doing their jobs is enough to make people hate them. My father started out his law enforcement career as a Border Patrol agent-- a LEO job that is often vilified in the media. He was getting hit with everything from nuisance lawsuits to death threats and attempts on his life just for doing his job. There were even some Iranian terrorists that were being tailed and it turned out they were tailing him and trying to find where we lived. They took pot shots at him a few times but fortunately, missed. They corrupted someone that worked in his building and got her to break in to his office and trash it. So sometimes criminals will target specific people and try to get to them. 

 

I really think that the writers should all take an updated course on profiling over the summer.

[kikismom]

I am so glad you brought that up about the eyes, I'm really tired of this and other cop shows saying "She wouldn't make eye contact with me--she's lying" or "they don't look their dad in the eye when he's talking--he must be a perv and they are scared of him or hiding something." In a lot of cultures, as you said, it is considered rude, disrespectful to others, or showing yourself as crude to make constant direct eye contact. (and a lot of those cultures are in America)

Today I was flipping through channels, and one was showing Ocean's 11, and Brad Pitt is telling Matt Damon: "Don't look down, he'll know you're lying" and it really made me mad! Glad to know I'm not the only one.

[Danielg342]

1) Danielg, thank you for the clarification. I'd be ok with them going back and catching some of the ones that got away at a later point. Showing that they are still working on cases over the years because it really can take time.

 

...

 

2) I would also love to see some followup to some of the cases where unsubs survived where we see the team in court having to deal with BS from the defense team. I know that might be a bit too much like law & order, but one of my favorite scenes was Hotch in court totally owning the defense attorney (while never raising his voice or speaking in a rude tone). He was very matter-of-fact and polite. I would love to see them pull something up that involved a case Hotch handled as a prosecutor.

 

...

 

3) I can't remember in which thread I read it (or even if it was this forum), where someone was saying things about the team being in jeopardy making them look bad for having so many enemies. A LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) doesn't have to do anything wrong or badly in order to have enemies. Sometimes just doing their jobs is enough to make people hate them. My father started out his law enforcement career as a Border Patrol agent-- a LEO job that is often vilified in the media. He was getting hit with everything from nuisance lawsuits to death threats and attempts on his life just for doing his job. There were even some Iranian terrorists that were being tailed and it turned out they were tailing him and trying to find where we lived. They took pot shots at him a few times but fortunately, missed. They corrupted someone that worked in his building and got her to break in to his office and trash it. So sometimes criminals will target specific people and try to get to them. 

 

1) Exactly...it becomes more realistic, especially considering some cases just won't give you everything right away. If you think about it, this could make a great season-ender one day (like what happened with "No Way Out", only without the "BAU agent as a target" subtext). I suppose the one thing that could scuttle an idea like this would be that people would watch the episode and be disappointed- but, I think at this stage of the show's run we've seen the team succeed more often than not that I think an occasional disappointment is acceptable.

 

Also, a corollary to this is that I had an idea during The Replicator storyline that we could have a season long storyline that shows the "process" of the crime, right from the stressor to the actual murders themselves to the initial police investigation and then to the eventual BAU investigation and arrest. One thing I'd really like to see is the "why" part of a crime to be shown and developed, not glossed over as happens way too much right now- don't just tell me a guy's a monster: show me how it happened.

 

2) I think an episode or two in court would make sense for the show- in fact, it's surprising we haven't seen it that often on the show already. One of the jobs of a profiler- as Morgan mentioned in "The Edge of Winter"- is to prep cases for trial, and since Hotch already has an extensive history in a courtroom, the connection makes sense. We could even see the case unfold via flashbacks.

 

Furthermore, with all the work that psychiatrists go through in courts these days- such as evaluating the plausibility of insanity pleas- there's a wealth of potential storylines for the BAU to follow.

 

3) I mentioned that, and, fair point, but I will point out a caveat or two. First of all, I could see how a Border Agent could get targeted- immigration is lucrative in of itself, so I'd imagine there would be incentive for a coyote or two to want to take down a Border Agent or two.

 

When it comes to a FBI agent or just a regular police officer, I don't see a lot of scenarios where a random person would just want to take out an agent or two as "something to do", as is the case with the BAU sometimes. The only plausible scenario- outside of gang work, I would think- would be if a family member or a friend of someone the FBI captured struck at the FBI in retaliation- otherwise, I fail to see how the BAU should be the victim of "random" attacks. Attacking the FBI for no reason would be drawing attention to themselves, and I would think it's simply easier to find ways to avoid detection than to take out the investigators- after all, why would agents investigate a crime they didn't know was happening?

[zannej]

Daniel, I agree that the random attacks don't really make sense. I'm glad you mentioned the thing about a family member of someone. I used to watch a program called While You Were Out (sort of a reality program where they did a surprise renovation on a room) and one time they did the work at the Kirkwood Police Station (I can't remember which state). A few months later one of the officers that appeared on the program was killed. He was sitting in his police car and some guy walked up, pulled a gun, and shot him in the head. Turns out the guy's little brother had been taken into police custody and things went horribly wrong and the boy died. The cop who was killed had nothing to do with it, but the grief-stricken man was so angry he blamed all of the police and wanted to get back at them.

 

My mother likes to watch when they show the court cases on TV where they interrogate the expert witnesses for hours and hours about their experience, education, and qualification. It would be interesting to find out more about some of the professional background info of the characters by seeing them in court being questioned (so long as the scenes did not take too long). It would be interesting to see defense attorneys ask irrelevant personal questions and trying to find a way to discredit the agents. Like if they brought up that Reid has shot and killed 5 people, or that Hotch once beat a man to death, or that  Rossi has had multiple wives (saying it means he's not a good judge of character-- which would be an illogical leap, but it is the kind of crap some people pull). Lawyers have been pulling scumbag since ancient Roman times. There was a case back then when instead of presenting an actual defense for his client, the defense attorney accused the prosecutor of being a wife beater to discredit him. 

 

Another thing is that the federal government now requires LEOs to take polygraph exams every so often (for FBI it is every 5 years). This is despite the fact that Reagan prohibited employers from being able to compel employees to take polygraphs after reading the reports on how inaccurate they are. The results are not actually based on the graph readings, but on the opinions of the examiners and what they observe during the test (they watch the eyes and form opinions on whether or not the body language indicates deception). The problem is, they are extremely subjective and people will fail if the examiner just doesn't like their faces. It is not necessarily a conscious decision. Also, if the examiner is told ahead of time that the person is suspected of being guilty, he/she is far more likely to claim that the person failed. There was a study done to see the accuracy of polygraph tests and out of 100 people who were telling the truth, the examiners picked 50 of them as lying. There were also some "inconclusive" results. Back to the FBI thing, if an agent fails the polygraph then he/she is fired. So, it would be interesting if the team members had to be called in for polygraphs. Most of the team probably have nothing to worry about-- except maybe Morgan since the results are notoriously biased against African Americans and maybe Reid because of the drug thing. If the higher ups ever knew about that, he'd be fired. However, I think Reid would know exactly what to do and say to pass. Since Reid has given polygraphs before, I assume he has completed the 6 weeks training required to be a polygraph examiner. This might actually be in his favor because he might garner some respect from other examiners. One of the questions asked is if the person studied ways to pass a polygraph when lying. Reid could say that he had to learn about such techniques as part of his training. It would be interesting to have a moment where Hotch is worried and then sees that Reid passed and is relieved and Reid would be like "Why wouldn't I pass?" and give Hotch a knowing look.

 

I know that some people like Beth, but I wish they would just write it so that things didn't work out and he's moved on. Then Rossi can perhaps try to talk him in to a blind date or something. Or Hotch can meet a single mother at Jack's soccer games/practice. I actually think it would be funny if one of the mothers thought that Hotch and Rossi were a couple since Rossi helps out with Jack's practice. Rossi could then make jokes about it later.

Oh, and I had a mental image of Hotch sitting around with white gloves, organizing his coin collection in to special binders while Jack is asleep on the couch-- of course this would be when the phone would ring for a case.

 

I can't remember where Blake's husband moved, but I would love for the team to have a case there and run into her or at least have Reid mention visiting her. I'd love if if she would give Reid a hug. I wish she'd hugged him in the finale.

 

I know I've griped about too much of the personal stuff, but if they worked it to not interfere with the cases, it would be interesting to see the team sitting around at the break-room table discussing how Morgan and/or Garcia is trying to set Reid up on some blind dates to help keep him move on from Maeve. Or maybe Reid could comment that Carl-- one of the forensic pathologists in the building-- was trying to set him up on blind dates. It would only have to be a few brief lines before they get called for a case.

 

I hope they will return to focusing on the psychological aspects-- victimology and getting in to the heads of the unsubs without showing the gore. Talking to people and finding out more about the unsubs and victims instead of it all coming up on computer. Showing us what the team thinks happened in the green screen or similar ways-- like they used to do. Fewer unsub teams and female unsubs would be appreciated.

 

Since Garcia runs the grief counseling thing and Reid has had a lot of grief, it would be interesting if he went to some of the meetings with her. And I still want to see them mention that Beltway Clean Cops at some point. Maybe Reid could run in to another agent that he's seen in the BCC but only knows as "Mike" or "Bob".

[mstaken]

My wish is actually that they don't add a new team member to replace Blake and concentrate on more deeply developing the ones we have. Given that that totally won't happen, though, I just want them to add someone with personality and energy, someone who has a different and clearly defined perspective and skill set. As Daniel noted, the team dynamic can be kind of staid---while I'm not rooting for a lot of internal conflict, it would be interesting to see  someone who adds a new energy. 

 

If they're going to give us so much of JJ, I wish they'd make her a little more likable and/or remotely interesting. Does she have *any* unexpected quirks, personality traits, hobbies or hopes? Can we at least learn something from all her screentime beyond 'she's effortlessly, flatly and robotically awesome at every single thing she does'?

 

I really miss the sense that Hotch was a layered, complex and compelling character. Now he just seems...well, dull. And, as others have mentioned, I really want them to rekindle his previously interesting friendship with Reid---they seem to barely interact these days! 

 

Please bring back Elle and Emily, even for just an episode or two. 

 

Give the team more clearly defined, distinctive skills, strengths, weaknesses and professional roles. They all seem so interchangeable in the vast majority of episodes! 

 

More suspenseful, twisty whodunits/mysteries, please!!! Less---A LOT less----of seeing exactly who the Unsub is before the opening credits even roll. 

 

And, as always...more psychologically rich profiling and cerebral deductions...less generic action and gore. :) 

Edited May 16, 2014 by mstaken

[zannej]

I forgot to mention that I hope they keep it with only 6. At this late in the game, the show does not need "new blood". The showrunners have already said they don't want to add more characters so any character that they do add will probably be underused.

 

If they absolutely have to add someone, I want it to be someone who makes sense as a choice for the team and who qualifies without exceptions. I want it to be someone with a skillset that is not in the realm of expertise of the other characters. Something unique that won't make the person take anything away from the rest of the team, but something useful so it won't only be used in one or two episodes. Someone who can help the show return to the psychological exploration.

 

I'm not a fan of discord, but I sometimes wonder what would happen if they had someone with a psychology degree who comes off as a bit arrogant in some ways. Now, I know not all people with a psychology degree have this trait, but I have encountered a few who think they know everything or that they are better than other people and talk down to people. They tend to have very poor interpersonal skills, which I find hilarious because their studies are supposed to help them understand people. Psychology is practically a religion and people can get irate if someone disagrees with them. Say the new character comes in and they start spouting rules and maybe Reid argues because he's kept up-to-date on the changes. Or maybe the person says something about how awful it is for children who have parents that are gone all the time and brags about not being selfish enough to have children that would be subjected to lack of attention-- rubbing both Hotch and JJ the wrong way. The person would not be very likable and perhaps could try to profile the team members and say unflattering things and get pulled aside by Hotch and told to cut it out because it is not helping and that they need to learn when it is appropriate to share their insights. But some of the behavior is a front to try to disguise that they had a troubled childhood and once they start to get to know the team better they lower the walls a bit.

 

But then again, a character like that might just be reviled. Maybe it could be like the interns on Bones or prospective doctors on House and they only stay for a few episodes and get voted off the island, with Hotch politely telling the person that while they have a lot of knowledge and such, that they just don't mesh well with the team and are actually interfering rather than contributing.

[ForeverAlone]

I too would prefer that the show doesn't replace Alex. But if they HAVE  to, I would rather have them bring in a new media liaison and not another profiler. There just isn't enough work for six different profilers, and inevitably at least one character gets short changed. Erica had no desire for Alex, and it showed in how little the writers gave her to do in two years. 

[zannej]

I agree, ForeverAlone. Unfortunately, I think Erica would probably have even less desire to have a media liaison. She would probably see it as somewhat stepping on JJ's toes and that nobody could ever be as awesome as JJ. It's fine to come in and take things away from Reid, but she wouldn't want to do anything to have someone do something that JJ was good at.

 

Blake was used so little that I thought she'd only been there for one year. I forgot it had been two.

 

I wish they would have a scene where Blake comes back to clean out her desk in the first episode and the team throws her a surprise party and actually get to give her a proper goodbye-- but its interrupted by a call for a case.

 

I also want to see them find a way to incorporate the little black "bat cat", Cairo. Cairo is all grown up now:

Edited May 16, 2014 by zannej

[JMO]

For the future, my wish list:

Story lines that are creative in an emotional vein, and not simply coming up with a more gory way to kill.  For me, "Ride the Lightning" is a good example of what I mean.

 

Cases where one or more members of the team has an emotional investment.  Not necessarily a completely character-centric case----but a case where someone relates more to the victim, or the family, or even the unsub.  To me, that is the preferred context for revealing something of the characters' personal lives.  And i can't imagine it doesn't happen to at least one of them on every case.

 

More of their friendships. Just a line or two as they're heading out, or back in.  A touch on the shoulder, in understanding or support.  Not the group thing, but the pairs.  Each of them has a different quality of relationship with each of the others, and the 'family gathering' totally dilutes that, to the detriment of the show.  With the exception of Morgan and Garcia (which has been uncreatively overdone),  the friendships have been sorely missing. 

 

And just one more, very specific, thing.  I want some Henry and Reid.  If AJ's son is still too young to handle lines, I'd  recast.  But I think the relationship with his godson could bring Reid some much needed joy and unconditional love. 

[mstaken]

More of their friendships. Just a line or two as they're heading out, or back in.  A touch on the shoulder, in understanding or support.  Not the group thing, but the pairs.

 

I totally agree---both with wanting more of this and wanting it to be subtle. 

 

Each of them has a different quality of relationship with each of the others,

 

Do they, though?! They certainly should, and realistically they would, but for the past several seasons so many of the characters and their interactions with one another feel so blandly interchangeable to me. There's really very little differentiation in the team members' skill sets, personalities, specialties, or relationships with one another IMO----though I'm totally with you on wishing there were! Weirdly enough, I actually think the show did this best back in S1---even though they were still introducing the characters and establishing the tone of the show, I really had the sense that the characters had different personalities, different strengths and different relationships with one another. Since then, the characters and their dynamic became blander IMO.  

 

and the 'family gathering' totally dilutes that, to the detriment of the show.  With the exception of Morgan and Garcia (which has been uncreatively overdone),  the friendships have been sorely missing.

 

ITA! 

 

And, because it can't be said enough...at least a little bit more twisty mystery and psychological suspense and less 'run around waving guns' action and torture porn, please! 

[JMO]

I agree with you that the relationships have become more interchangeable in the past few years.  I guess I'm reaching back to the early seasons, when they were so well drawn that I still remember them, and find myself looking for remnants of them.  I guess, if they weren't still lodged in my memory, I wouldn't miss them.  But I also wouldn't still be watching the show. 

 

I also agree about the shoot outs and the torture porn.  I know many of their cases are rooted in some degree of reality.  But I would much prefer that we experience it as the team does...after the fact. 

[Wilowy]

When people ask me why I like this particular show and no other procedural, the answer that always pops out first is the team.

 

I don't even like any of the other people on procedurals. Just my BAU. I don't even know how that happened, but here we are. 

[Wilowy]

I'm for @mstaken's "twisty mystery and psychological suspense" - four-square behind that one! 

 

Though I'm a huge sucker for team moments (unless they happen in a bar - ugh! Well okay the karaoke was cute but still...) most of the time. I like the plane moments because they all lower their voices so as not to be heard by the others, and they are face to face so it's more intimate. 

 

They can give me violence, sure... just not fucking explosions every other episode blowing towns/gas stations/banks/buses to kingdom come to cover the fact you HAVE NO STORY RICK DUNKLE.

 

And ever since Proof, which was the ultimate in torture bullshit and the most disgusting of all episodes (except for the Reid/JJ fight which I loved) I've had no tolerance for it. Even rewatching the earlier eps as I do every day, I sometimes get surprised by the level of gore and degradation we're given after the fact. I KNOW it's a show about serial killers and there are going to be things that I don't care to see... again, it's the team that does it for me. 

 

So my wish is to see MORE team everything. We're going into an anniversary year, I want to see more of whatever they want to give us from these characters. I want to maybe see some of their gray shades a little more, after this long on the job there are bound to be some. I'd like to see corners as yet unexplored, and have more than just Reid and Garcia be more open about their love and dedication to one another. And I really need to see a return to the earlier Hotch/Reid dynamic, if they give us nothing else. 

 

I know Hotch respects him as a man now, but as witnessed in Zugzwang, he is still protective of and would do anything for Reid. I want that to come into play more often, and I want at least one lengthy jet scene with the two of them, figuring out some life stuff. It would be awesome to see Spencer turning the tables and giving Hotch some life advice in his inimitable soft and empathetic way, and for Hotch to be pleasantly surprised by that.

 

I also want to MAKE SURE the writers don't forget how proactive Reid was in this season! They need to remember what a clever, capable genius he is. They need to remember he saved Blake's life twice, that he can subdue UnSubs now, and shoot with the best of them. They should take his losses and his re-dedication to his life's work thus far as a strong indicator of his confidence in his ability to function as a whole agent, and not just as map-boy. I want my Spencer front-and-center as much as possible next year. Front and center. 

 

Oh can I have Elle and Emily pop back in once in a while? Thanks, showrunner! 

[missmycat]

My hope is that CBS does not force the show to take on another character,because they will probably sufferer the same fate the Blake character did.And I want next season to be team centric with heavy emphasis on Hotch and Reid and, Rossi somewhat. Less screen time for Morgan, JJ and Garcia.IMO Morgan and JJ had so damn much screen time this season you could cut it in half next season and they still be pretty prevalent in the show.Of course now I'd be elated if the Mary Sue would just disappear altogether, but I know it isn't going to happen.And Garcia should not be getting more focus than the profiler themselves. At the very least I'd like to see some Reid/Morgan scenes without them feeling the need to almost always insert JJ into them.

 

And finally I wish(although I'd probably be better off wishing for the winning power ball numbers) they'd go back and study how Garcia was used in the earlier season. It's always been a bone of contention of mines that both critics and fans a like often see her as the one who solves the cases via her computer. Garcia should be seen as a valuable asset to the team,instead of someone who makes them seem irrelevant at times.

Edited May 17, 2014 by missmycat

[mstaken]

Oh can I have Elle and Emily pop back in once in a while? Thanks, showrunner!

 

Hee! As you can see, this one is high on my wish list as well :) 

 

 

 

Garcia should be seen as a valuable asset to the team,instead of someone who makes them seem irrelevant at times.

 

I totally agree. And while part of me still likes that this show has a female character with actual personality, I'd love it if they matured Garcia just a little bit---particularly when it comes to making the cases All. About. Her.  'OMG, *I* hate my pretty, happy world being marred by such icky things, and have you told me yet today just how very awesome *I* am at my job? And wouldn't you rather I keep going with the cutesy, vaguely conceited banter in lieu of giving you the information that might save someone's life?' 

 

 

 

Morgan and JJ had so damn much screen time this season you could cut it in half next season and they still be pretty prevalent in the show.

 

And yet we still didn't learn ANYTHING of interest about them and their characters weren't deepened or developed whatsoever, at least IMO. If anything, they seem to have even less personality and depth than ever before. So my wish is that the writers rewatch the first seasons and take notes on how to more subtly but effectively depict their characters---they used to be able to do so much more with so much less screentime. 

 

 

 

 Though I'm a huge sucker for team moments (unless they happen in a bar - ugh!

 

Hee!

 

 

 

I know Hotch respects him as a man now, but as witnessed in Zugzwang, he is still protective of and would do anything for Reid. I want that to come into play more often, and I want at least one lengthy jet scene with the two of them, figuring out some life stuff. It would be awesome to see Spencer turning the tables and giving Hotch some life advice in his inimitable soft and empathetic way, and for Hotch to be pleasantly surprised by that.

 

I love this idea so much! As whined about elsewhere, I miss the once deeper, potentially fascinating and oddly touching Hotch/Reid dynamic a lot. 

Edited May 17, 2014 by mstaken

[mstaken]

So here's a fun (albeit vaguely torturous) weekend challenge: If you get to keep just TWO episodes from each of the nine seasons, which would they be?! And what if you could keep just 10 overall, disregarding the seasons they come from? 

[ForeverAlone]

Hmm...all right, I'll play. :)

 

Season One:

Extreme Aggressor

LDSK

 

Season Two:

The Aftermath

Sex,Birth, and Death

 

Season Three:

Seven Seconds

Lucky

 

Season Four:

Minimal Loss

Omnivore

 

Season Five:

Haunted

The Uncanny Valley

 

Season Six:

The Middle Man

Out of the Light

 

Season Seven:

True Genius

Unknown Subject

 

Season Eight:

The Lesson

Zugzwang

 

Season Nine:

In the Blood

Rabid

 

Top 10:

1. Extreme Aggressor

2. The Uncanny Valley

3. True Genius

4. Unknown Subject

5. Minimal Loss

6. Lucky

7. Seven Seconds

8. The Aftermath

9. LDSK

10. Zugzwang

Edited May 17, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[mstaken]

Hmm...all right, I'll play. :)

 

And I love you for it :) Great answers, by the way. 

 

Season 1: (Gah, must I pick only TWO?! Who made these ridiculously tough rules? Oh, right, it was me...)

 

Compulsion and Derailed

 

Season 2: The Fisher King Part II (As you guys know, my love for the Diana-Reid relationship knows no bounds, and I love Elle's dreams in this one as well) and Sex, Birth and Death 

 

Season 3: Doubt and Elephant's Memory 

 

Season 4: (ARGH---it's nearly impossible to narrow down!!!)

 

Soul Mates and Zoe's Reprise...and about 17 others, but at this moment those are the two I consider the most endlessly rewatchable

 

Season 5: The Uncanny Valley and  Mosley Lane 

 

Season 6: Devil's Night and Sense Memory...or, you know, we can just erase pretty much the whole season ;)

 

Season 7: I always realize all over again that I like more S7 episodes than I think I do! I love foreveralone's choices here: True Genius and Unknown Subject

 

Season 8: (I'm so not a fan of this season..I wish I were!) The Aaprenticeship and Zugzwang 

 

Season 9: Angels and In the Blood 

 

Top 10 overall, in chronological order:

 

1) Compulsion 

2) Broken Mirror 

3) Derailed 

4) Fisher King Part II

5) Sex Birth and Death

6) Masterpiece

7) Soul Mates

8) Zoe's Reprise 

9) A Shade of Gray 

10) Uncanny Valley 

 

...these are subject to constant change :) 

[Wilowy]

Season 1

Extreme Aggressor - In so many shows, I'm like "You can skip the first few eps if you want." Nope, not here. To me, EA is a big red START x on a big ol' treasure map.

L.D.S.K. - The Hotch/Reid here is just way, way too good to pass up. And seeing Reid first fail his test, then save the day was just one big juicy nugget of story. Props to such a loose cannon UnSub, too. I felt real peril for Reid the first time I saw it, though I somehow knew Hotch would be okay. 

 

Season 2

North Mammon - I still don't know if any episode ever affected me as much or in the same way as this. The way it was shot, the cello music, the slo-mo, the amazing profiling, the Lord of the Flies devolving of the parents at the precinct... the surviving girls in the alley, and the acting from the girl who played Polly... all so realistic and wrenching. 

Sex, Birth, Death - Nathan Harris. 'Nuff said.

 

Season 3

Limelight - An underrated episode. Gripping, tense, and well-plotted. While Jill didn't deserve to die for her machinations (and she didn't), she WAS a fucking asshole, and culpable in the death of her friend, the reporter. 

Elephant's Memory - My favorite episode of the entire series, still. Reid's empathy, brilliance, personal struggles, and innate bravery are full-on display all throughout this amazing episode. Throw in Owen the sympathetic UnSub and the talk with Hotch on the jet and I'm undone. Much, much love. 

 

Season 4

Mayhem - Action done right. Rife with emotion and danger at every turn, Hotch and our team suffer real damage and devastating loss. Morgan is at his Morgany-best in this one, and for once deserves and earns the spotlight. This is one that I use to turn people on to the show, even though it isn't typical of the best. I use this one because even though there is extreme anxiety from the very first moment, everything I love about the emotional elements of our show is also present, in spades. 

The Big Wheel - The weirdness of this episode contributes so much to its charm I can't even. From the clicking echolocation from Stanley, to the bread stuffing in the wound by Vincent, it was all just so odd and so awesome. Meekly and sympathetically played by Alex O'Loughlin, creepy-ass Vincent is one of my favorite UnSubs of all time. The guest stars were the big draw for me here, and I'm so in love with our team that that is super-rare for me. 

Honorable Mention: Amplification... Amplification. Because Reid. 

 

Season 5

100 - The very best episode. The classic.

The Uncanny Valley - arguably the second-best episode. Also the unlikeliest UnSub evar.

 

Season 6

Coda - Everyone's performances in this episode elevate it to list status. Although the writing is mediocre at best, everyone's roles were extremely well-acted and incredibly touching. Reid's personal beauty and powers of perception are what make it for me, and it's on this list because I can't imagine never being able to watch it again. 

Hanley Waters - Kelli Williams should have gotten an Emmy for her convincing portrayal of a confused, grieving mother compelled to murderous action. Her inability to cope with her devastating loss while others around her went on with their lives was deeply sad. Bonus points for the awesome Hotchness here. 

 

Season 7

True Genius - Finally Reid gets something to do in this awful season, and it's a winner, giving us character progression and insight into his self-doubt and ultimate coming to grips with his life choices. Also the end scene is one for the books with that brilliant grin, which Matthew so seldom gets to use as Spencer. 

Foundation - Heartbreaking victim and tense paternal dynamic come together as both sides of this episode work seamlessly with each other. The scenes with JJ and Morgan in the hospital with Angel are genuine and slowly played, making them extremely realistic. The slow conversion of Samantha as Prentiss helps her realize the monster her father is, is tense and some of the best acting to be found this season. The juxtaposition of her loss of trust in her father as Angel slowly begins to trust Morgan is captivating.  

 

Season 8 

The Apprenticeship - The softball scenes where we get some long-missed Morgan/Reid bonding (and Spencer's ultimate success) is it for me here, and the whole reason for this to be on the list. 

Magnum Opus - Team. The team helping Reid and coaxing him back into his life is everything here. While the UnSub story is fucking stupid and I hated it, the Jencer clinches (twice!) sent my shipper heart soaring so high it still hasn't come all the way down. Reid's voice breaking as he speaks the end quote from Nicole Sobon still makes me wipe my eyes. 

 

Season 9

Persuasion - Creative writing, fantastic profiling, and smug, righteous Reid are all on tap making this one highly entertaining for me. 

The Edge of Winter - The best episode of the season. A heartbreaking UnSub, beautiful storytelling (though the subject matter is horrific) with a twist ending that I didn't see coming, and a calm, intelligent Morgan all combine to make this an old-school CM episode of the highest calibre. Janine should have gotten her writing award for this one instead of the crappy Strange Fruit. I'm very glad we'll be seeing Hanelle Culpepper in the director's seat again in ten.

 

Since my top ten changes all the time, I'll spare y'all my schizophrenic fluctuations. ;)

[mstaken]

Hanley Waters - Kelli Williams should have gotten an Emmy for her convincing portrayal of a confused, grieving mother compelled to murderous action. Her inability to cope with her devastating loss while others around her went on with their lives was deeply sad. Bonus points for the awesome Hotchness here.

 

Oh, yes, this! How could I have forgotten to include this as one of my two favorites from S6? To be fair, I've more or less repressed that entire season ;)

 

Sex, Birth, Death - Nathan Harris. 'Nuff said.

 

There's so much to love about this one that, despite the stiff competition, I'm actually not surprised to see it on all of our lists. The whole issue of whether an Unsub can, er, de-Unsub himself before he devolves or whether he's destined for psychopathy is endlessly interesting to me. Reid's connection to Nathan Harris felt really authentic and touching to me. We get a nice reminder that, despite being the allegedly rule-abiding, professionally 'ambitious' one of the group, especially at this point in the series, Hotch still cares far more about attaining justice than being political savvy. We get some interesting testing and profiling from Gideon. And we get what's easily one of my favorite Garcia/Reid moments of the series.  

 

True Genius - Finally Reid gets something to do in this awful season, and it's a winner, giving us character progression and insight into his self-doubt and ultimate coming to grips with his life choices. Also the end scene is one for the books with that brilliant grin, which Matthew so seldom gets to use as Spencer.

 

I like S7 a lot more than you do (and like S8 a lot less, but that's what makes this place interesting!), but I agree wholeheartedly with your great description of why True Genius is such a winner. And now you've given me an excuse to rewatch it in hopes of catching sight of that MGG-ish grin at the end :) 

 

Since my top ten changes all the time, I'll spare y'all my schizophrenic fluctuations. ;)

 

Please don't! 

[Wilowy]

"de-UnSub"... hee!

 

Great comments all! Especially Sex, Birth, Death! 

[zannej]

I have to agree with the last several posts. 

 

Willowy, I would absolutely love to see Reid give Hotch some advice. He did that with Blake in a very gentle way. He is one to mind his own business, but when he thinks someone could use some words of wisdom, he has a way of politely offering. I still remember how he sometimes almost reversed roles and was looking after Gideon. He would ask Gideon if he was ok and remind him of things to keep him focused. There was the one time when he realized Hotch was upset for personal reasons and asked him if he was ok and offered to take the lead on the interview if need be. Hotch, in return, opened up a little bit about the divorce.

 

I really want to see the return of some of the physical affection that was present in the first season. These people touched each other. Hotch patted Reid's arm. Morgan patted Reid's arm and shoulder. Reid patted Elle's knee.

 

For some reason I suddenly had the idea of the team all investigating something on a cruise ship that is not docked or that leaves dock and they are stuck on it.

 

I'd also like to see the team interact more with other law enforcement agencies. I know they have done so in the past, but it would be nice to see them working together and not stepping on each other's toes. Perhaps they could be called in to help with a massive prison riot- profiling the leaders of the riot and figuring out how to calm them down (Back in the 80s, the FBI was called in to try to assist with the Cuban Riots-- although all they ended up doing was blowing open the doors so BOP and INS could send their people in).

 

I would also love to see the team members reacting more to the cases based on their own personal experiences. We know Hotch's father had cancer and died of a heart attack, but we never heard what happened to his mother. I'm guessing it wasn't suicide because he's never reacted to suicide cases. He reacted to the suspect who had cancer because it made him think of his father and he also saw a bit of himself in the guy (the desperation to spend more time with his son but knowing his time would run out).

 

I'd like to know if Rossi has any siblings. I'd like to see Garcia's brothers and JJ's surviving siblings. If not see them, I'd like to hear them mentioned. These things would help to flesh out the characters in a way. 

 

Have I mentioned here already that I would love to see the team members have to share rooms again (like they did in "Exit Wounds") only actually show them interacting while roomed up. I personally think that Reid has a kit in his luggage (some gloves and bleach wipes) that he uses to scrub down hotel rooms (especially the phone) to get rid of any potential germs. Bonus points if he gets out the black light and checks the blankets for signs of body fluids. How cool would it be if he did that to see if there was nasty stuff and ended up finding signs of an unreported crime-- like clear signs of a murder having taken place there). 

 

I really wish they had shown the other teammates rooming up in that aforementioned episode. We know that Garcia and Morgan paired up, JJ and Prentiss would have paired up, Joe said Rossi didn't share, so Reid would have roomed with Hotch.

 

Even if they don't show it, it would be cool if Hotch mentioned that Reid's germaphobia caused him to stay awake scrubbing the room and spraying disinfectant all over things. Bonus points if at the end when they show Hotch in a hotel room by himself, he gets a bleach wipe and wipes down the remote control and/or phone down actually made him wary of touching stuff.

 

I forgot to mention that even though I am wary about the actor who plays Jack, I think he's made improvements and I would be tempted to see how well Reid interacts with him. Like maybe there is a problem and Hotch can't get Jack to open up because Jack is worried about Hotch's feelings so Reid could talk to him. 

 

Oh, and I also want to see Reid mention his father and Hotch clench his fists and comment how he just didn't get how a father could leave his son like that. Or maybe they could bring the bastard back and have Hotch dislike him-- especially if he's been doing something to make life difficult for Reid.

Edited May 20, 2014 by zannej

[zannej]

I just re-watched The Green Mile. Man, that is such a good yet heartbreaking movie. Great actors throughout. It was interesting to see the guy who played Foyett as a good guy. That actor is really great.

 

I actually enjoyed the first half of the Foyett arc. The way he pretended to be a victim and was all timid and such a great actor was awesome. I wish they hadn't dropped the ball on it when they continued to "100". While I admit "100" was very powerful in terms of emotional display, team sticking together, etc, the plot killed me. I loved how Reid very politely and softly spoke to Strauss and said that he couldn't forget what happened. I also like how he referenced what it was like to be tortured. I've railed on other forums about what bugged me about the episode: Foyett found Sam how? Haley didn't know proper protocol and didn't head straight to a police station and ask for confirmation of something having happened to Hotch? Haley didn't know what Foyett looked like? Foyett was that ill yet he could knock out Morgan and put up such a fight with Hotch? All those months and Reid-- the one who knows about medicines-- didn't figure out that Foyett might be substituting other meds? Bullshit. But I don't remember any big explosions and that knock-down-drag-out fight with Hotch was done well. Strauss' sympathy at the end was nice too. 

 

I swear in "True Genius" it looked like Reid was looking at Emily's chest a few times when he talked about why he decided to stay. LOL.

[idiotwaltz]

Ooooh, can we do 'best to worst' Emily hair as well?! I need help sorting out my feelings about her bangs ;) 

 

Where have you been my entire life? I can write a dissertation on Emily's hair. 

 

My personal ranking, from Best to Worst:

 

1. Season 5 (up to The Fight, when the bangs return)

2. Mid-season 3, from around Lucky to Limelight, when it was shoulder length and had a bit of curl to it

3. Season 7 

4. That weird period in Season 3 when the hair people decided to give it a bit more curl than usual 

5. End of Season 2, when it wasn't so flat and straight as when she first joined the team

6. Seasons 3 to 4, a.k.a. the First Bangs period

7. Mid-season 5 to end of season 5, a.k.a. the Second Bangs period

8. Season 6, a.k.a. the Third Bangs period

 

I've left out the Lauren Reynolds hair because I don't know how I feel about it. I used to hate the bangs (it was so distressing when they reappeared in Season 5) but in retrospect, I don't mind them as much. Probably because I like Season 4 so much? I do hate whatever Paget did to her hair in Season 6. She's a gorgeous woman but that look did not do her any favors. 

 

Your thoughts? 

Edited May 18, 2014 by idiotwaltz

[idiotwaltz]

Speaking of child actors, I liked the kids in Into the Woods. The boy who played Robert is wonderful. 

 

I also liked the little girl in Bloodlines, doing the cognitive interview with Prentiss. 

 

The little girl in Gabby is adorable and a good little actress for her age. 

 

I really wonder why they couldn't have found a better actress to play Ellie. It's really hit or miss for this show: Stanley, the blind kid in The Big Wheel, is amazing, as is Sammy in Coda, but then we have the little psychopath in Safe Haven who chewed up the scenery and the kids in Mosley Lane. And Jack Hotchner. The kid is cute, and I appreciate the continuity, but he could use an acting lesson or two.  

Edited May 18, 2014 by idiotwaltz

[mstaken]

Where have you been my entire life? I can write a dissertation on Emily's hair.

My personal ranking, from Best to Worst:

1. Season 5 (up to The Fight, when the bangs return)

2. Mid-season 3, from around Lucky to Limelight, when it was shoulder length and had a bit of curl to it

3. Season 7

4. That weird period in Season 3 when the hair people decided to give it a bit more curl than usual

5. End of Season 2, when it wasn't so flat and straight as when she first joined the team

6. Seasons 3 to 4, a.k.a. the First Bangs period

7. Mid-season 5 to end of season 5, a.k.a. the Second Bangs period

8. Season 6, a.k.a. the Third Bangs period

 

Hee! This is ridiculously awesome. Thank you for helping me come to terms with my own complex feelings about which of Emily's hairstyles resonated with me most :) I'm almost entirely in agreement, though I think I love her S7 hair a little less than you do. I love the hair itself, but I just think her face looks more beautiful when her hair has a little more body. 

 

I think I'm fairly anti-fringe in general. Light bangs often look great, but heavy fringe rarely does to me. I disliked JJ's hair in S5 for the same reason. 

 

And just to show that my shallowness extends to both genders: For some reason I find Hotch far more gorgeous in S1 than any subsequent season. And Joe M. is not my general 'type', but something about his general manner and charisma makes him kind of sexy to me anyway. 

Edited May 18, 2014 by mstaken

[zannej]

I thought the kids in Mosley Lane were ok. The one in "Safe Haven" not so much. I did not buy that he was a teenager. I thought he was 20.

 

The kid who plays Jack Hotchner... man... I used to cringe at the very idea of them giving him speaking lines. He's improved a little, but there is still something off about him.

[jaytee1812]

I like the girls in 'North Mammon', the actresses were great and the story left me wondering what happened to them. 

 

The killer kid and the little girl who got away from him in 'The Boogeyman were both excellent. 

[idiotwaltz]

And just to show that my shallowness extends to both genders: For some reason I find Hotch far more gorgeous in S1 than any subsequent season. And Joe M. is not my general 'type', but something about his general manner and charisma makes him kind of sexy to me anyway. 

 

I'm as gay as the day is long, but something about Rossi makes my knees weak. I know a number of gay CM fangirls who feel the same way and once suggested a "lesbians straight for Joe Mantegna" club. 

 

 

While I admit "100" was very powerful in terms of emotional display, team sticking together, etc, the plot killed me. I loved how Reid very politely and softly spoke to Strauss and said that he couldn't forget what happened. I also like how he referenced what it was like to be tortured. I've railed on other forums about what bugged me about the episode: Foyett found Sam how? Haley didn't know proper protocol and didn't head straight to a police station and ask for confirmation of something having happened to Hotch? Haley didn't know what Foyett looked like? Foyett was that ill yet he could knock out Morgan and put up such a fight with Hotch? All those months and Reid-- the one who knows about medicines-- didn't figure out that Foyett might be substituting other meds? Bullshit. But I don't remember any big explosions and that knock-down-drag-out fight with Hotch was done well. Strauss' sympathy at the end was nice too.

 

This accurately sums up my feelings towards 100. I liked Omnivore, but I thought the whole Foyet arc in Season 5 was too over-the-top. Perhaps not as over the top as the Doyle arc or Ninja!JJ Looks for Bin Laden, but still too far-fetched for my tastes. 

[Wilowy]

Well y'all know I disagree with any beefs directed at 100, considering it the very best episode of the entire series. :) That said, it'd be fun to see what everyone else thinks is the best episode. Not necessarily your favorite ep, but the one single episode you consider to be the very best. 

 

What say you?

[mstaken]

I need some time to think about that one, but as a general rule, it's funny how often my idea of what's objectively 'best' differs from my personal favorites. For instance, I'm totally in love with Masterpiece and could watch it daily (stop laughing at me!), but I can't argue in good faith that I objectively consider it among the series' very 'best' episodes :) On the opposite end of the spectrum, I can very easily make the argument that Revelations and 100 are both among the series' very 'best', but I personally don't enjoy watching them. And then there are a few which overlap, of course: like, I personally love Shades of Gray AND also think it's one of the 'best', most richly complex, smoothly plotted and compelling episodes of the series. 

 

Does anyone have episodes you consider really underrated, i.e. episodes you happen to love but which fans in general seem fairly indifferent about? 

[Wilowy]

Roadkill, Normal, and The Big Wheel are three that just pop into my head. Oh, and Limelight. 

 

Roadkill is really an example of well-done profiling, and I love how the UnSub doesn't say one word the entire time. Normal is just great episodic drama, and The Big Wheel is excellently paced and acted. Those just don't seem to come up on everyone's radar very often. 

[idiotwaltz]

I really like Normal and think Mitch Pileggi did an excellent job. I also think Tabula Rasa deserves more love, as does The Instincts. Other contenders: Empty Planet, Birthright, and Ashes to Dust. 

 

As for very best episodes ... this one is a toughie. I want to say Minimal Loss, but I don't know if it's my inner Prentiss fangirl speaking. My favourite episodes, well, I'm an incredibly shallow person so they're pretty much all the Emily-centric ones. 

[idiotwaltz]

My wishes are quite simple:

 

1. Please have more Asian-Americans on this show! If not a lead, then at least some recurring characters would be nice. We have Dr. Kimura and Detective Kim of the LAPD, and the boy Reid plays chess with in the park, but other than that, I can't recall any Asian-Americans on the show, even as victims. 

 

2. Please can somebody on this show have a daughter? Hotch, JJ, Blake, and Rossi are all parents of sons and all the babies born on this show (e.g.the ones in Cradle to Grave and A Thousand Words) are boys. This show is a complete reverse of Gilmore Girls, where nobody has a son. Huh. 

[Wilowy]

Minimal Loss would be in my tops list if it weren't for my dislike of LUKE PERRY. He's just LUKE PERRY in everything and I can never connect with whatever character he's supposed to be playing.

 

The other thing that bugs about that episode is Emily on the jet having to make Reid feel better that she got beat up. Ugh. I get it that we all love our baby boy and don't want him traumatized (I'm as fiercely protective of him as anyone), but come on now. Emily got the shit kicked out of her and she's making it okay for Reid? Where's the sympathy for Emily?

[mstaken]

Hotch, JJ, Blake, and Rossi are all parents of sons and all the babies born on this show (e.g.the ones in Cradle to Grave and A Thousand Words) are boys. This show is a complete reverse of Gilmore Girls, where nobody has a son. Huh.

 

Are you a fellow GG fan?! Just when I think I can't like you guys any more than I already do... :) You make a very interesting point, by the way; I never realized until now that they seem to all have sons! I'm not a big fan of TV Kids as a general rule anyway. 

 

I'd like to see Garcia's brothers and JJ's surviving siblings. If not see them, I'd like to hear them mentioned. These things would help to flesh out the characters in a way.

 

As someone who's been desperate for them to give JJ some sort of depth or even the faintest trace of a well-defined personality, I totally agree that I would love to briefly see or even hear about her family! And she seems to have an eye rolling resentment towards small towns---maybe a case in or near the small town she was raised in would bring up some interesting issues that could make her a little more interesting and better developed? 

 

I really want to see the return of some of the physical affection that was present in the first season. These people touched each other. Hotch patted Reid's arm. Morgan patted Reid's arm and shoulder. Reid patted Elle's knee.

 

Oh, great, now you gave me yet another excuse to rewatch S1 for the zillionth or so  time :) You bring up a very interesting point. I'm wondering if that may contribute to why some of us felt they were a more naturally tight and interesting 'family' with more distinctive, authentic relationships back then despite them pushing the LOOK OMG THEY'RE FAMILY!!! scenes with far less subtlety in later seasons. 

[mstaken]

It's funny, because Minimal Loss is on my 'want and expect to love it more than I actually do' list :) I absolutely love Reid beyond the telling of it, I really like Prentiss/Paget a lot, I'm weirdly fascinated by cults...so, yeah, on paper this would be an all-time favorite of mine, but somehow it just doesn't hold together all that well for me. Maybe, like, Willowy, I just can't get past Luke Perry being so unshakably Luke Perry. Something about the pacing and plotting just feels kind of off to me. 

 

I totally agree with Normal as an underrated episode! Another S4 episode that I seem to love a lot more than most do is Conflicted. It's not perfect, but it still engages and fascinates me every time. I also think of Soul Mates as a little underrated, because while most fans seem to like it well enough, few seem to think it's the fabulous, endlessly rewatchable, top five favorite that I do. Same goes for Zoe's Reprise. Oh, and Shade of Gray---as rambled about in an above post, I think this is easily one of the most thought-provoking and ethically complex episodes of the series, and bonus points for a couple of twists that I didn't see coming. (You guys know how much I adore it when they inject more mystery into the mysteries!) 

 

This post is already ridiculously long, but non-S4 episodes that I view as somewhat underrated (meaning that I tend to love them far more than most other fans): Compulsion, Derailed (again, I think most like these episodes well enough, but I almost never see them on people's 'all-time favorites' lists...other than mine!), Broken Mirror, A Real Rain (this one is almost never mentioned, but I'm always happily surprised all over again by how great I think it is), Machismo, Ashes and Dust, Doubt, In Birth and Death, True Night, True Genius (many feel it's good by far lowered Later Seasons standards, but I love it even as compared to the golden years of CM!), Heathridge Manor.   

 

Which ones are on your overrated/want and expect to love it more than you actually do lists of widely popular episodes that you're mostly meh about?! 

[zannej]

I don't know if I can pick one absolute best episode. There are a lot of episodes from the first few seasons that I think were great. I guess I'm alone here in not really having a problem with Luke Perry. I didn't like 90210 and didn't care for his character on it, but I liked him in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie. Of course, Paul Reubens was more awesome in that one.

 

I actually liked that Emily was trying to comfort Reid because it showed how strong she was and how much she cared about him. Not only did she care enough to sacrifice herself for him, but then she was worried about her feelings. Reid felt guilty about her being beat up and she just wanted to let him know that it was *her* decision. She was the one who chose to take whatever was coming to protect him and that he didn't do anything wrong. Even by making herself vulnerable, she was still taking some measure of control in the situation. It sort of reminds me of the original Star Wars movies. The censors wouldn't let them keep in the scenes that made it very clear that Leia was tortured quite badly. Then her entire planet and pretty much everyone she loved was killed, yet she was the one comforting Luke at the end. Sure he'd lost a lot at that point too, but I'd say she went through worse, yet she put aside her feelings to show her compassion for him.

 

I think one of my favorites has to be "Revelations". Sure it could have been better, but it had the team profiling and it had them worried about Reid and reacting in their own ways. Hotch was scared but trying to keep it together. Gideon was off muttering to himself in a bathroom. JJ was freaking out. Garcia was freaking out. Emily was compartmentalizing and staying strong. Morgan was also trying to keep his head... Poor Reid went through so much yet he still had the presence of mind to communicate with the team when given the chance.

[zannej]

I'm not a big fan of TV kids either. They can often be very cheesy or just plain obnoxious.

 

A case in or near JJ's hometown would be interesting. I'd love for them to say whatever happened to her father and whichever sibling was the parent for her niece. It would actually be interesting to see her niece. Or was it a nephew? My brain is not working right now.

 

I agree that the affection and family feel did feel more realistic when it was more subtle.

 

I would like to see Hotch run in to someone who knew him as a child-- someone he thinks of as almost a grandparent.

 

I'd love for them to find something for Rossi that doesn't involve an old case or veterans.

[mstaken]

I'd love for them to find something for Rossi that doesn't involve an old case or veterans.

 

Heh---I've made the exact same wish on this thread. Hopefully the writers take heed! JM brings such terrific charisma and energy to the cast, and while I'm content with even just SnarkywithSuspects Rossi, I'd love to see him get more screentime and richer material.   

[mstaken]

Can I add Birthright to my list of underrated/overlooked/always-forget-that-I-like-it-more-than-expected episodes?! I rambled in the JJ thread about how much I actually liked her in that one, and I just think it's a really engaging, atmospheric and smoothly paced episode. 

 

And, Willowy, you're so right about Limelight being more awesome than I usually give it credit for! 

 

I may have to move S3 ahead of S2 in my season rankings, though it's still definitely behind my beloved S4 and S1. 

Edited May 20, 2014 by mstaken

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...underrated episodes.

 

I don't see too many say they like "Cold Comfort" from season 4, but that one is one I consistently rewatch. I also have to say, that while I am not a huge fan of the actual case in "Catching Out", that episode has some of my favorite personal scenes. Those scenes make that episode, though even on a rewatch, I realized how much actual profiling went into catching the unsub. Season 3 "Scared to Death" is also pretty good, and it has one of my favorite Reid scenes, actually a couple of them.