S06.E02: Rocks and Shoals

[starri]

I've been thinking about Vedek Yassin's suicide a lot due to current events.  It was, and is, one of the most truly shocking things I think I've ever seen on TV.  I am sure it was inspired by Thích Quảng Đức, the first Buddhist monk to self-immolate in protest of the persecution of Buddhists under the Vietnamese government, and Norman Morrison, the Quaker who set himself on fire in view of Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara in protest of the Vietnam war.  I don't know if I would exactly call it an act of courage, but certainly one of deep personal conviction.  Worse (I'm not sure it's the right word, but I can't think of a better one) Yassin seemed to do it with the sole purpose of getting Kira to really, REALLY think about how she's become the exact thing she hated.

"Evil must be opposed!"

[readster]

I agree, I remember talking with my friend's the next day, and we were just in complete shock but saying how well it was done. I know a history teacher who explained the episode in the way you said starri on how things like that put situations in perspective and how they did it willing. It was an ending, I don't think anyone was expecting. I know when Nana Visitar read the original script her reaction was: "WOW!" 

[John Potts]

I did like the way Kira realised she'd become the very person she used to despise - it's easy to imagine any such collaborators must have been purely self serving, but they probably had their reasons and some (probably genuinely) considered themseles as doing their patriotic duty.

As I'm a fan of the Jem'Hadar, I did like their tragic nobility here: they were utterly honourable and obedient, even when they knew they had been betrayed by their own commander. And obviously it fell to Garak to point out that fighting honourably would probably mean they'd lose. And nice bit of continuity in having Nog mistrusting Garak - which Garak takes as if he's finally getting through to somebody, of course. 

On ‎09‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 0:22 PM, starri said:

I've been thinking about Vedek Yassin's suicide

Watching this today, there was some weird choices in censoring that scene - they cut the "Evil must be opposed!" line but left the shot of her feet stopping short of the floor (presumably to cut out her actually jumping). It's not as if it isn't apparent what the Vedek did and you'd think opposing evil isn't exactly something people need to be protected from.

[iMonrey]

No doubt, one of the strongest episodes of the series. The shocking suicide was something you just don't expect to see on Star Trek. We get so desensitized to people dying of phaser fire but you never expect someone to hang themselves. I think it has somewhat less impact because - as far as I can recall - we'd never seen that Vedek before. Maybe if she had been introduced to us in a previous episode or two it would have had more impact. Nevertheless, it got the point across. 

All the stuff with Sisko and his crew was well done too - even the shot of the ship going down in the ocean was effective, considering the budget and the year. I'm not sure what the point was of having Jadzia out of commission for the whole episode. I wonder if something was going on with Terry Farrell, like maybe she sprained her ankle or something.

That reminds me . . . you'd think at some point Jadzia would tell Benjamin to stop calling her "old man." Kurzon was one of many of her previous hosts. I know that's the host Benjamin really bonded with, but enough already. Jadzia is Jadzia - she's not an old man any more than any of her other pre-Kurzon hosts were old men. 

[John Potts]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure what the point was of having Jadzia out of commission for the whole episode. I wonder if something was going on with Terry Farrell, like maybe she sprained her ankle or something.

Apparently Terry Farrell burns really easily, so she (or the Producers) decided against having her filming in bright sun all day for a week (IMDB gives slightly more details).

[legaleagle53]

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

No doubt, one of the strongest episodes of the series. The shocking suicide was something you just don't expect to see on Star Trek. We get so desensitized to people dying of phaser fire but you never expect someone to hang themselves. I think it has somewhat less impact because - as far as I can recall - we'd never seen that Vedek before. Maybe if she had been introduced to us in a previous episode or two it would have had more impact. Nevertheless, it got the point across. 

All the stuff with Sisko and his crew was well done too - even the shot of the ship going down in the ocean was effective, considering the budget and the year. I'm not sure what the point was of having Jadzia out of commission for the whole episode. I wonder if something was going on with Terry Farrell, like maybe she sprained her ankle or something.

That reminds me . . . you'd think at some point Jadzia would tell Benjamin to stop calling her "old man." Kurzon was one of many of her previous hosts. I know that's the host Benjamin really bonded with, but enough already. Jadzia is Jadzia - she's not an old man any more than any of her other pre-Kurzon hosts were old men. 

Here's the thing.  The Dax symbiont often speaks through Jadzia (when she refers to an experience that she couldn't possibly have had because she wasn't born yet, for example, but narrates it in the first person), and the symbiont wouldn't object at all to having Curzon's memory honored by being addressed as "old man."  In fact, since the symbiont, not Jadzia, is the real repository of the memories of all the previous hosts, the symbiont would probably feel insulted if Sisko didn't use the familiar nickname of "old man," and consequently, so would Jadzia.

[iMonrey]

I just don't think there's any consistency in the ratio of personality between the symbiont and the host in Trills. At times it's as though the symbiont itself is the only sentient part of the amalgam and the host is nothing more than a wheelchair for it to get around in. At other times - as with Jadzia's relationship with Worf, for example, it's as though Jadzia is the dominant personality who just happens to have a lot of other memories from past lives. That's the Jadzia I can't get around being OK with Benjamin continually addressing her as "old man." Presumably, Curzon would not be interested in marrying Worf. In that respect, Jadzia is portrayed as a woman who simply has a lot of past life memories.

[legaleagle53]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I just don't think there's any consistency in the ratio of personality between the symbiont and the host in Trills. At times it's as though the symbiont itself is the only sentient part of the amalgam and the host is nothing more than a wheelchair for it to get around in. At other times - as with Jadzia's relationship with Worf, for example, it's as though Jadzia is the dominant personality who just happens to have a lot of other memories from past lives. That's the Jadzia I can't get around being OK with Benjamin continually addressing her as "old man." Presumably, Curzon would not be interested in marrying Worf. In that respect, Jadzia is portrayed as a woman who simply has a lot of past life memories.

And Jadzia wouldn't have been interested in hooking up, sexually or otherwise, with the current female host of the symbiont that Dax had been married to a century earlier when Dax resided in the body of a male host,  yet that's exactly what Jadzia did.  The symbionts transcend gender.  But I have always wondered how Jadzia (and Dax) recognized her former wife's symbiont in its current host's body.

Edited July 13, 2017 by legaleagle53