Are we supposed to regard Carter as a hero?

[talktalk]

Because he is more like a very unlikable idiot at this point. 

Almost every move he makes is stupid and irrational, he creates problems instead of solving them. He inserts himself into situations where he doesn't belong, and if things don't go his way, he acts like a thug and throw a tantrum (last episode at the abandoned warehouse). Not to mention he is selfish and entitled. I can't believe Andy the idiot (who is supposed to be a super smart CTU agent) went along with his stupid suicide mission which is destined to fail.

I also find it hard to believe Carter is a good soldier, it seems that he is very bad at following orders. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by talktalk

[Stratego]

I think we are supposed to believe that Nicole is his reason for being--and his success (at anything).

[TV Anonymous]

12 hours ago, talktalk said:

I also find it hard to believe Carter is a good soldier, it seems that he is very bad at following orders. 

But that is the common trope for police / military characters, is it not? Film makers like to portray that the best soldiers / policemen are the ones making decisions on their own, not listening to those above them and always come up with independent actions in the contrary of their organization. Never mind the fact that in organizations like those, excellence is typically reached through order and discipline.

[talktalk]

43 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

But that is the common trope for police / military characters, is it not? Film makers like to portray that the best soldiers / policemen are the ones making decisions on their own, not listening to those above them and always come up with independent actions in the contrary of their organization. Never mind the fact that in organizations like those, excellence is typically reached through order and discipline.

His reckless actions already got his friend killed by the terrorists, now he wants to get Andy kills as well, so he can rescue his wife and bother. What a hero!

[paigow]

44 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

But that is the common trope for police / military characters, is it not? Film makers like to portray that the best soldiers / policemen are the ones making decisions on their own, not listening to those above them and always come up with independent actions in the contrary of their organization. Never mind the fact that in organizations like those, excellence is typically reached through order and discipline.

John McClane; Ned Stark; Pete Mitchell

[TV Anonymous]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

John McClane; Ned Stark; Pete Mitchell

LT Mitchell would lose his wing permanently once he landed after buzzing the control tower like that in real life.

[marinw]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

John McClane; Ned Stark; Pete Mitchell

And Jack Bauer! Part of what made Jack so fascinating is that he was tremendously loyal to the United States and its institutions but ignored the conventions and laws of these institutions when they became inconvenient.

Edited March 14, 2017 by marinw

[jhlipton]

I am totally not feeling this season.  I don't give a crap about Andy and his boyfriend (you know the PTB are congratulating themselves on having a gay couple -- when that's not edgy at all anymore).  I hate that Nicole, who was smart and capable (scared out of her wits but still able to help Eric) has become nothing than a Damsel in Distress.  And, yeah, Eric, who has the resources of the CTU, takes the one person least able to handle himself.

About the only thing I did like is that Eric put the lives of the other victims of the sleeper cells ahead of his own (and to a lesser extnt, Nicole's, since he had no way of knowing that she'd get out alive).

[paigow]

Band of Brothers defined heroes as the guys buried in Europe....so by that rationale, Carter cannot be considered a hero until he dies in combat. However, Carter is selfless and acts out of honour despite his tactical missteps.

[jhlipton]

20 hours ago, paigow said:

Band of Brothers defined heroes as the guys buried in Europe...

That's far from a usual definition of "hero" though.  For the complete opposite:

Quote

"I want you to remember that no poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb son-of-a-bitching bastard die for his country. Remember that."  General George S. Patton

(Note: there is no official source for this quote but several men who served under him have independently cited it.)
To the extent that he's made several of Jadallah's men die for their country, he's a hero.

[talktalk]

On 3/14/2017 at 4:35 PM, marinw said:

And Jack Bauer! Part of what made Jack so fascinating is that he was tremendously loyal to the United States and its institutions but ignored the conventions and laws of these institutions when they became inconvenient.

You don't seem to understand the difference between a CTU (or in real life FBI, CIA) agent and a soldier. While an agent needs to be resourceful and to think quick on their feet, a soldier's paramount mandate is to faithfully obey and execute orders.

In this show, Carter is a soldier, not a CTU agent. Carter might fashion himself as an ad-hoc agent,  but so far he appears to be not very good at either. He constantly ignore orders and got himself, his family and friends, CTU and the country in terrible situations, with deadly consequences. Yet every action he took is callous, short sighted or downright reckless. A Jack Bauer style hero he definitely is not. if fact, he is not even a good soldier, as he is supposed to be. I hope he faces consequences for all the criminal offences that he has committed so far: assaulting police officers, armed robbery, murder, kidnapping of federal agent and stealing top secrets.  

Edited March 17, 2017 by talktalk

[paigow]

On 3/16/2017 at 11:12 AM, talktalk said:

You don't seem to understand the difference between a CTU (or in real life FBI, CIA) agent and a soldier. While an agent needs to be resourceful and to think quick on their feet, a soldier's paramount mandate is to faithfully obey and execute orders.

In this show, Carter is a soldier, not a CTU agent. Carter might fashion himself as an ad-hoc agent,  but so far he appears to be not very good at either. He constantly ignore orders and got himself, his family and friends, CTU and the country in terrible situations, with deadly consequences. Yet every action he took is callous, short sighted or downright reckless. A Jack Bauer style hero he definitely is not. if fact, he is not even a good soldier, as he is supposed to be. I hope he faces consequences for all the criminal offences that he has committed so far: assaulting police officers, armed robbery, murder, kidnapping of federal agent and stealing top secrets.  

Jack lived through many seasons under threat of arrest... David Palmer let him escape..but many other POTUS - especially Logan - were always hunting Jack. Technically, Jack was guilty of murder several times - e.g. killing then beheading a prisoner - to achieve an objective. If Jack gets a pass for "ends justifying means" then Carter should as well... 

[Stratego]

17 hours ago, paigow said:

Jack lived through many seasons under threat of arrest... David Palmer let him escape..but many other POTUS - especially Logan - were always hunting Jack. Technically, Jack was guilty of murder several times - e.g. killing then beheading a prisoner - to achieve an objective. If Jack gets a pass for "ends justifying means" then Carter should as well... 

Do the "ends justify the means" became the central theme of 24.  Sometimes it appears that the central theme hasn't changed but I'm not yet convinced this show has "found its way" yet, so I'm not certain.