S05.E03: Bad Blood

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

It's been a prequel to the film this whole time until now. With Loomis and company entering the picture it's clear this season is crossing over into the film's territory.  Norman on the loose wouldn't make much sense.  With all the films, he's either tied to the motel or in jail.  It's not like in his mental state he could operate any other way.

I think possibly what Chicago Redshirt meant by on the loose to mean not incarcerated or involuntarily committed.

[Stringey]

11 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

It's been a prequel to the film this whole time until now. With Loomis and company entering the picture it's clear this season is crossing over into the film's territory.  Norman on the loose wouldn't make much sense.  With all the films, he's either tied to the motel or in jail.  It's not like in his mental state he could operate any other way.

Was Norman in the movies ever in jail? I cannot remember I thought he spent all his time between psycho and psycho 2 in a mental hospital.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Stringey said:

Was Norman in the movies ever in jail? I cannot remember I thought he spent all his time between psycho and psycho 2 in a mental hospital.

Only at the very end of the movie after he tried to kill Marion's sister. I think before that he had been in a loony bin. Remember "What do you know about caring? Have you ever seen the inside of one of those places? The laughing, and the tears, and those cruel eyes studying you? My mother THERE?"

[ganesh]

Does it matter if it's a prequel by strict definition? 

[peacheslatour]

17 hours ago, ganesh said:

Does it matter if it's a prequel by strict definition? 

I don't think so. We can only speculate by what we already know about the characters. Obviously you can't make a show using the names and characters from one source without referring to the source it was inspired by. If they wanted to make up an original series they would have used an original idea.

[ganesh]

I actually hope the show ends with Norman eventually killing everyone and just continuing on completely delusional. Based on the show as a whole, him ending up in jail doesn't work for me because none of the characters we've seen (except Emma) are truly good anyway, so I don't think anyone should "win." This has always been a portrait of Norman as a tragic figure, and ending with him completely alone seems more fitting. 

Not killing Dylan and Emma. I hope they stay far away. Or if Dylan actually feels compelled to return to WPB, he realizes Norman is completely gone and just gets out of there. 

[Stringey]

Can anyone explain why caleb hallucinated norma when norman/mother came down to the basement in that one scene?? Caleb did not hit his own head against that post hard enough to cause him to feel goofy. And not sure but I dont believe caleb was locked down their long enough to get delirious. I have heard of grief making people delirious but that is a stretch.  

[Karlophe]

Hmmm. That's a good question. Personally, I think it was a combination of things. I do believe he was concussed, (to the point I was surprised he was so quick on his feet when Norman let him go, but adrenaline is strongest in life or death situations I suppose) and was in a heightened state of shock and grief at not only in finding out his sister was dead, but discovering her frozen corpse to boot. He had already started to crack. Not completely, as we see. He is immediately aware of Norman, his mindset, his psychosis, and what he'd done. He knew when he was speaking to him and when he was speaking to Norma. That's why it's so tragic. He has a very unique tie to Norman, (who comes down the basement stairs speaking like Norma, acting like Norma, being Norma) perhaps even deeper to him than the one he shares with his son - that of course being, that to both of them, Norma was the love of their lives. So in those final scenes between them, in the freezer, at the stairs, even them falling asleep holding hands, I think in the moment was them holding on to the last real and tangible thing they had left of her, with the only other person, regardless of their feelings toward each other, who could truly understand. It was heartbreaking.

[Dobian]

The dominoes are already starting to fall.  With Caleb dead, pottery barn girl is next.  I assume Romero will somehow survive his gunshot wound long enough to make it back to Bates Motel for his demise.  Chick will eventually be found out and killed for his betrayal.  That leaves Dylan and Emma.  I figure they will play a big part in the final episodes.

[Mick Lady]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 8:35 PM, ganesh said:

The gut shot is a tv shooting. No one dies from that. It just delays his showdown with Norman.

He's dead, even with birdshot.

 # 8 bird shot has 1 1/8 ounces of shot moving at 1255 FPS  and holds a very tight pattern at short distances, as does #6 and #4. That is a lot of lead hitting all at once. A well aimed shot to the belly or crotch area at 10 yards or less would most certainly sever an artery and or cause a tremendous amount of damage

I know a bit about guns. I don't want Romero dead, but if the shot didn't kill him, peritonitis will, unless he gets immediate help. But on T.V., who knows what they'll do?

[Stringey]

Hey am I wrong or  in one of the show trailers did it show Norman trying to stab mother. Well in reality stabbing air lol. I swear in one of the trailers Norman was stabbing first the image of Mother then the empty air that was really there. Anyway my point of bringing this up is connected to Madeline and the possible death of her. I think if mother kills Madeline it might be connected to that image in the trailer of Norman trying to stab mother. I think if mother kills Madeline this will set him temporarily over  the edge in terms of how he feels about mother. I say temporarily because you know mother will always rub his head and be like oh norman it had to be this way and Norman will eventually agree.  In some trailer also we saw Norman drenched in blood with it all over his face. Wonder what murder that was connected to and if it was possibly connected to the murder of madeline

[Mick Lady]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 3:55 PM, peacheslatour said:

Only at the very end of the movie after he tried to kill Marion's sister. I think before that he had been in a loony bin. Remember "What do you know about caring? Have you ever seen the inside of one of those places? The laughing, and the tears, and those cruel eyes studying you? My mother THERE?"

Stop spending my money Peacheslatour! Now I have to get the third movie!

But, in your favor, I did like the sequel, so thanks!

[kieyra]

I just can't see Romero dying that way; that would be a dumb (and unsatisfying) final season arc for the character. 

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

I know a bit about guns. I don't want Romero dead, but if the shot didn't kill him, peritonitis will, unless he gets immediate help. But on T.V., who knows what they'll do?

I think you're answering your own question. Does anyone think Romero is actually dead? It's tv. Romero has to have showdown with Norman. They set it up at the end of last season.

[Mick Lady]

31 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I think you're answering your own question. Does anyone think Romero is actually dead? It's tv. Romero has to have showdown with Norman. They set it up at the end of last season.

I hope you're right ganesh! It's not at all satisfying if they kill off Romero this way!

I just wish they showed guns in a more realistic light in T.V. They're not toys.

[Timetoread]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 3:44 PM, Fable said:

I never cared for Caleb, so I’m not upset that he died, but I thought Kenny Johnson did a fantastic job playing him and for that reason alone, I will miss him. 

 

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 1:41 PM, smorbie said:

You should probably give Flowers in the Attic a read.  It explains incest between abused siblings, in their case, teenagers locked in a room together for years, in a way that really makes it understandable.

I thought Kenny did a fine job indeed with Caleb.  What I love about this show is the intelligence hidden amongst all the crazy.  I didn't hate Caleb because, sucker that I am, I believed his remorse for raping his sister.  He knows it was wrong, he knows it hurt her, and he apologized sincerely willing to accept whatever reaction she gave him. He loved Dylan and was even pretty gentle with his nephew Norman, who he could have easily subdued.  I say all this not to defend his rape but to illustrate that he never set out to be a predator or a criminal.  In his heart he was "making love" to the only person in the world he had - his beautiful little sister who trusted him implicitly.  I think what shocked and shook him the most was that Norma - seeing it for what it was - ran from him.  He didn't consider himself a danger to her, but he was.  The point?  Norman is a direct product and escalation of the mental illness that ran through this family.  Norma's father was violent, yes, but her mother was mentally ill.  She didn't mean to hurt the kids, but she did.  Caleb is mentally ill, he didn't mean to hurt Norma, but he did.  Norma was mentally ill, she didn't mean to hurt Dylan and Norman, but she did.  And Norman received the lion's share of the sickness - criminally and utterly insane.  But he doesn't mean to hurt all those people...

[Stringey]

4 hours ago, Timetoread said:

 

I thought Kenny did a fine job indeed with Caleb.  What I love about this show is the intelligence hidden amongst all the crazy.  I didn't hate Caleb because, sucker that I am, I believed his remorse for raping his sister.  He knows it was wrong, he knows it hurt her, and he apologized sincerely willing to accept whatever reaction she gave him. He loved Dylan and was even pretty gentle with his nephew Norman, who he could have easily subdued.  I say all this not to defend his rape but to illustrate that he never set out to be a predator or a criminal.  In his heart he was "making love" to the only person in the world he had - his beautiful little sister who trusted him implicitly.  I think what shocked and shook him the most was that Norma - seeing it for what it was - ran from him.  He didn't consider himself a danger to her, but he was.  The point?  Norman is a direct product and escalation of the mental illness that ran through this family.  Norma's father was violent, yes, but her mother was mentally ill.  She didn't mean to hurt the kids, but she did.  Caleb is mentally ill, he didn't mean to hurt Norma, but he did.  Norma was mentally ill, she didn't mean to hurt Dylan and Norman, but she did.  And Norman received the lion's share of the sickness - criminally and utterly insane.  But he doesn't mean to hurt all those people...

They never made it clear regarding the situation between caleb and Norma. Ingot the impression that the kids developed abnormal mutual attraction between them similar to a boyfriend and girlfriend because they were kind of isolated and maybe suffered physical abuse. They relied on each other. Now in am not saying that is how things usually work. I don't believe that the majority of children will have incest feelings for each other in those situations but in this case they developed those feelings. They never specified at what age caleb began raping her.  They never specified whether  caleb just forced her from the beginning or if the physical stuff was kind of mutual until a point where Norma said she wanted it to end. And then at that point caleb started forcing himself on her which is obviously rape. 

[Timetoread]

6 minutes ago, Stringey said:

They never made it clear regarding the situation between caleb and Norma. Ingot the impression that the kids developed abnormal mutual attraction between them similar to a boyfriend and girlfriend because they were kind of isolated and maybe suffered physical abuse. They relied on each other. Now in am not saying that is how things usually work. I don't believe that the majority of children will have incest feelings for each other in those situations but in this case they developed those feelings. They never specified at what age caleb began raping her.  They never specified whether  caleb just forced her from the beginning or if the physical stuff was kind of mutual until a point where Norma said she wanted it to end. And then at that point caleb started forcing himself on her which is obviously rape. 

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think the narrative established that Caleb is 4 years older than Norma and that he started in on her when she was about 12 -which would make him about 16 (not at all consensual equals) and continued into his adulthood (I think she was 17 when she had Dylan).  Norma felt shame because she admitted that she did consent for a while because she loved her brother (though her adult description of how she "couldn't get him off of [her]" or he raped her "every single day for years" calls into question the level of consent IMO), but Chick (villain though he is) rightly pointed out to her that the age/size difference clearly made it rape.  Norma remembered it as rape.  And Caleb's fall-to-his-knees apologetic sobbing 25 years later pretty much confirmed it.

[DangerousMinds]

12 year old children cannot legally consent to sex.

[peacheslatour]

I thought we had established that it was indeed rape years ago.

[Mick Lady]

I've often wondered if Caleb was mentally handicapped. In some scenes ( especially in the early years) he seems to have some struggles in that direction. 

[peacheslatour]

Yeah, I think entire clan was half a bubble off plumb.