S05.E01: Dark Paradise

[truthaboutluv]

On 2/21/2017 at 11:48 PM, ganesh said:

I was, as I'm sure most were, to see Norman basically bonkers this season. They certainly delivered on that. So the end reveal about Romero was unexpected for me and fantastic.

The moment "Mother" forced Norman to remember what happened with the dead guy, I could tell it looked like the guy was there to murder Norman and I knew immediately that Romero put a hit out on him because as Norman kept asking to his dead mother who is actually not really there, "who would want to kill him?" It really could have only been one person. 

So the FEDS found a way to make something stick to Alex after all. Well I figured as much since that was the only way I could see him not coming after Norman and as we saw in the premiere, technically even that didn't stop him. The plan just didn't work. What is interesting about Norman's madness is trying to figure out what really happens in some instances.

Like he clearly could not have been fixing the shower and Mother be the one to taser and stab the guy trying to kill him because Mother doesn't exist.  So obviously he did it. But how would teeny, tiny Norman manage to get the jump on a hired hitman? Like from the movie and some of the other murders we've seen him commit in the past seasons, he kills his victims because he catches them by surprise and they're not expecting it. I'm wondering if Norman found something off about the guy, maybe suspected he had some ulterior motive for coming to the motel and killed him before the man had a chance to attack him. 

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Lots of thoughts after seeing the first episode of the new season. I guess my first one is that I was disappointed that they did not open the episode with explaining how Norman got Dr. Edwards off his back. They were doing therapy 3 times a week, and Dr. Edwards in a deleted scene from 4x10 said he wanted to see Norman every day after finding out Norma died (thinking she was the one who committed suicide and wanted to take Norman with her). Was he able to just fool him by coming off as normal, like he's doing with everyone else in town

My guess is it's probably the bolded. After all, he was able to fool him enough to get him to release him. I think the scene showing Norman going into the town, meeting that lady, mentioning his mother passing away was all to show that to the outside world he probably just seems like sweet Norman Bates who tragically lost his mother two years ago. I'm sure he "grieved" appropriately in his sessions with the doctor, talked about his feelings over realizing that Norma killed herself and wanted to take him with her (yes we all know that was really his plan), etc. to where the doctor probably feels that as long as he's taking his meds (I'm sure he has no clue Norman is not taking them), Norman's okay to function in the real world. 

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I also find it odd that so much time has passed (apparently 18 months) and Dylan still has had no contact with Norman and has no idea Norma is dead.  Does he even know what became of Romero?  He knew that he and Norma were married, right?  I too think Caleb will be the one to figure out something is off at Bates Motel and will call it to Dylan’s attention.  I don’t think Caleb is long for this world, and I’m very worried for Dylan as well. 

I'm definitely most worried for Dylan. With the baby, I don't think the writers will be so cruel as to kill Emma but I can definitely see Dylan underestimating just how dangerous Norman is because he's his brother and he loves him and still wants to help him and that getting him killed. Like others I've predicted Norman killing Caleb since Caleb first showed up. Every time he left alive I was surprised. So I definitely would not be the slightest bit surprised to see a fully batshit crazy Norman kill him this season.

As to Dylan having no contact with Norman and not knowing about Norma, I buy it. Remember that before Dylan tracked Norman and Norma to White Pine Bay it had been awhile they hadn't talked, which is why he initially went to their old residence and similarly only then found out Norman's father had died and that they moved. So they've clearly been a family with issues where long periods would go by without any contact. And considering how things were left off, with Norman telling him it was best for him to forget them and not call, I buy his not knowing about Norma. Also, I may be wrong but I think Dylan knew things with Romero and Norma were kind of in a not so great place because Romero wanted to have Norman recommitted. Remember Romero came to him with the suggestion for he and Dylan to do without Norma's consent because she of course would not agree. That's when Dylan said he would try to talk to Norma and convince her it was for the best but that conversation didn't exactly go as planned. 

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Did Caleb pay for Emma's surgery? I can't remember, I thought Dylan did, with pot money.

He didn't exactly pay for it but he got the job with Chick for himself and Dylan that paid enough for Dylan to get the money. That was the drug run that almost got them killed which is why he beat the crap out of Chick when they got back.

eta: All in all, I enjoyed the episode and I am definitely looking forward to seeing how it all ends. A little sad that it is ending but I'd rather the show go out with a bang than drag on for season after season until it just sucked. Vera and Freddie are still a freaking hoot together and while I will miss seeing Norma interacting with the other characters, since I assume they won't be seeing her since she's dead and they're not crazy, she and Norman together is plenty fascinating on its own.

Edited February 23, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Black Knight]

On 2/21/2017 at 0:03 PM, Mick Lady said:

Chick has got to show again! He's hunting Caleb, and knows about Norma, so maybe he spills the beans.

When they showed Norman's journal, I freeze-framed each page and one page had this: "Chick brought cake." Norman doesn't seem like someone who would write that about a woman, so I'm sure it's Chick and not some random chick. So apparently they have some sort of interaction going on. Should be interesting to see exactly what it is, given that by the end, Chick admired Norma.

By the by, the rest of Norman's journal was just day-to-day stuff like what repairs he made to the motel, etc.

8 hours ago, Virtual Side said:

Lots of thoughts after seeing the first episode of the new season. I guess my first one is that I was disappointed that they did not open the episode with explaining how Norman got Dr. Edwards off his back. They were doing therapy 3 times a week, and Dr. Edwards in a deleted scene from 4x10 said he wanted to see Norman every day after finding out Norma died (thinking she was the one who committed suicide and wanted to take Norman with her). Was he able to just fool him by coming off as normal, like he's doing with everyone else in town? I'd have liked to see an opening scene like that, and then have them cut to two years later and start that timeline with the Norma/Norman breakfast scene.

I think we'll find out eventually, and probably sooner rather than later, through flashbacks. Already we know that there's stuff to unpack re: Norman and Chick (per my above), and the doctor would be another obvious one. Mother complained numerous times in this episode about constantly having to fix stuff, and I don't think she was just talking about the hitman. I'm sure other things have happened in the time since the finale, especially given the number of blackouts Norman is having.

The thing I have trouble suspending disbelief for re: Dylan not knowing that Norma is dead is, I feel Romero would have called him and told him what happened. I can believe that Dylan and Emma and Emma's father all weren't keeping in touch with anyone from the town given that they were all pretty isolated people when they were living there, but it just seems to me that Romero would have called Dylan. First, he wouldn't want Dylan believing Norman's lies (and Romero didn't know that Norman had cut off Dylan, so his natural expectation would be that Norman told Dylan) that Norma committed suicide, and second, he'd want to make trouble for Norman.

I think Dylan is likelier than Emma to die, only because if Dylan could make the choice himself, he'd certainly rather die and Emma live than the reverse, and in that respect, having Dylan die is a kindness to the character. He'd never get over the guilt he'd feel about his own brother killing his wife, or be able to deal with explaining that to his daughter. I'd rather that Dylan and Emma get a happy ending, but if one's going to die, it's better that it be Dylan. He'd just be a destroyed man if he lived.

[Mick Lady]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

He didn't exactly pay for it but he got the job with Chick for himself and Dylan that paid enough for Dylan to get the money. That was the drug run that almost got them killed which is why he beat the crap about of Chick when they got back.

Ah, thanks Truth!

[Bec]

It's easy to underestimate a wimpy-looking guy like Norman. That's what got the hitman killed and I would speculate it's going to get Caleb, Romero and Dylan all killed. I can't wait until Mother finally gets Caleb. But I hope we don't lose the other two too soon. I'm probably gonna need hankies if Dylan gets killed.

I can see Romero not telling Dylan anything. Romero is consumed by thoughts of revenge on Norman, and he knows very well that Dylan wouldn't let him kill Norman. Even if Dylan learns that his brother killed his mother, he's still not gonna want his brother dead.

Nothing manages to break my heart and creep me out at the same time as much as this show!

On 2/21/2017 at 10:20 PM, queenanne said:

I kept mentally shrieking "NO, you don't let Daddy-Uncle Incest touch your wee girl baby!" through the entirety of the scene with Caleb

Ha! I did the same thing. It didn't help that they had such worried and reluctant looks on their faces when they let Caleb hold their baby. I know he can't do anything to the kid with them standing right there, but the ick factor was still high.

I'm curious what Norman Bates would be like interacting with a baby. But not curious enough to actually need to see it happen. In theory, I don't think he would hurt a baby even in psycho blackout mode, but who knows, he can be hard to predict.

[SuzieQ]

On 2/21/2017 at 8:32 AM, islandgal140 said:

Great start to the season!

I really wish the show had told us how much time elapsed between seasons. Obviously more than a year given Romero has already been up for a parole and Emma had a baby, but still was itching to know the time frame and how many years of crazy Norman has been 'living' on his own. Also, what happened to his psychiatrist? 

 

I missed the first few minutes and just came on here to see it the time jump was addressed.  So I'm guessing no "Two Years Later" appeared on screen at the beginning?  Great episode either way!

[Black Knight]

4 hours ago, Bec said:

I can see Romero not telling Dylan anything. Romero is consumed by thoughts of revenge on Norman, and he knows very well that Dylan wouldn't let him kill Norman. Even if Dylan learns that his brother killed his mother, he's still not gonna want his brother dead.

But Romero's been locked up all this time. It's a moot point whether Dylan would or wouldn't let him do something (and I doubt Romero thinks that Dylan could actually stop him anyway - which I agree with. Dylan has had his moments but he is not at Romero's level). It's just about making some trouble for Norman while waiting out his time in jail - a little short-term revenge while he waits for the day he can actually kill Norman or get Norman killed. Plus the knowledge that Norma wouldn't want Dylan thinking she did kill herself (he doesn't know that Dylan doesn't know Norma's dead) plus some thought that maybe Dylan could at least keep Norman from killing anyone else until Romero can take him out. The guy was a corrupt cop, but he did have concern for keeping the public safe.

[Bec]

You do have a point that Dylan probably wouldn't win a battle of wits against Romero. Dylan can probably still manage to get in Romero's way, though. That's a hassle Romero wouldn't want.

Romero would want Norman all by himself to make killing him less complicated. Dylan would either try to keep an eye on Norman or try to get him into some facility again if he had any idea what's going on.

Even locked up, Romero did manage to send that hitman after Norman. Looks like he's at the point where killing Norman is all he can think about. He's only interested in doing things that will kill Norman. Merely making trouble for Norman would not satisfy Romero, not even a little.

Plus, maybe Romero doesn't want to risk getting Dylan killed, either. Maybe he's secretly a Dylemma shipper. Hee!

[Stringey]

On 2/20/2017 at 8:01 PM, DittyDotDot said:

As the fifth and final season opens, Norman tries to keep up appearances despite a troubling discovery while Dylan and Emma receive a surprise guest.

Ok ha ha here is the discussion on season 5.  I just created a topic because at first I did not see recent discussion. And btw loved the first episode.

[Stringey]

This is cool it appears this board is pretty busy and a good place to discuss.

[Stringey]

On 2/21/2017 at 3:37 AM, Ailianna said:

So my initial reaction is basically BATES MOTEL IS BACK!!!!!!  YEAH!!!!!!

Hm.  Interesting that Norman is keeping a journal and recording when he has blacked out.  I think that has to be something important later.  And that girl in the hardware store not only looked like Norma, she dressed like Norma, very old fashioned and floral.  So I'm really not sure how much of that is truth and how much of that was Norman.  

Romero in the house!  Clearly he has made enough name for himself for other inmates to leave him alone, and he's right about a corrupt cop being denied parole.  Yet he's in a great place to meet someone who might be willing to kill for a bit of scratch--which he still has, thanks to his killing of the rich dude a couple seasons ago.

Dylan and Emma--I love them so much!  I love them so much I want them off the show, so that i know they are safe and happy with their beautiful baby and beautiful life.  They both deserve all they've worked for.  I love Dylan's line about "who knew his calling was beer."  But I know this show may not leave them alone, and I love seeing them, but seeing them makes me think they're in danger, so I'm constantly torn when they're on screen between loving seeing them and wanting them safe and away from White Pine.

Oh, forgot to add that I'm wondering if being dead will prevent Norma from having epic freakouts, like with the sign, or at the drug house, or at anywhere that's the world not bending to her will.  I'm going to miss those if dead Norma doesn't get to do that, but I'm not sure how it will work and make sense knowing that she's in Norman's head.

I like to think Mother will get crazier and more evil the more that Norman gets confused and crazy. We kind of saw this in this episode.

[Stringey]

On 2/22/2017 at 5:42 PM, truthaboutluv said:

The moment "Mother" forced Norman to remember what happened with the dead guy, I could tell it looked like the guy was there to murder Norman and I knew immediately that Romero put a hit out on him because as Norman kept asking to his dead mother who is actually not really there, "who would want to kill him?" It really could have only been one person. 

So the FEDS found a way to make something stick to Alex after all. Well I figured as much since that was the only way I could see him not coming after Norman and as we saw in the premiere, technically even that didn't stop him. The plan just didn't work. What is interesting about Norman's madness is trying to figure out what really happens in some instances.

Like he clearly could not have been fixing the shower and Mother be the one to taser and stab the guy trying to kill him because Mother doesn't exist.  So obviously he did it. But how would teeny, tiny Norman manage to get the jump on a hired hitman? Like from the movie and some of the other murders we've seen him commit in the past seasons, he kills his victims because he catches them by surprise and they're not expecting it. I'm wondering if Norman found something off about the guy, maybe suspected he had some ulterior motive for coming to the motel and killed him before the man had a chance to attack him. 

My guess is it's probably the bolded. After all, he was able to fool him enough to get him to release him. I think the scene showing Norman going into the town, meeting that lady, mentioning his mother passing away was all to show that to the outside world he probably just seems like sweet Norman Bates who tragically lost his mother two years ago. I'm sure he "grieved" appropriately in his sessions with the doctor, talked about his feelings over realizing that Norma killed herself and wanted to take him with her (yes we all know that was really his plan), etc. to where the doctor probably feels that as long as he's taking his meds (I'm sure he has no clue Norman is not taking them), Norman's okay to function in the real world. 

I'm definitely most worried for Dylan. With the baby, I don't think the writers will be so cruel as to kill Emma but I can definitely see Dylan underestimating just how dangerous Norman is because he's his brother and he loves him and still wants to help him and that getting him killed. Like others I've predicted Norman killing Caleb since Caleb first showed up. Every time he left alive I was surprised. So I definitely would not be the slightest bit surprised to see a fully batshit crazy Norman kill him this season.

As to Dylan having no contact with Norman and not knowing about Norma, I buy it. Remember that before Dylan tracked Norman and Norma to White Pine Bay it had been awhile they hadn't talked, which is why he initially went to their old residence and similarly only then found out Norman's father had died and that they moved. So they've clearly been a family with issues where long periods would go by without any contact. And considering how things were left off, with Norman telling him it was best for him to forget them and not call, I buy his not knowing about Norma. Also, I may be wrong but I think Dylan knew things with Romero and Norma were kind of in a not so great place because Romero wanted to have Norman recommitted. Remember Romero came to him with the suggestion for he and Dylan to do without Norma's consent because she of course would not agree. That's when Dylan said he would try to talk to Norma and convince her it was for the best but that conversation didn't exactly go as planned. 

He didn't exactly pay for it but he got the job with Chick for himself and Dylan that paid enough for Dylan to get the money. That was the drug run that almost got them killed which is why he beat the crap out of Chick when they got back.

eta: All in all, I enjoyed the episode and I am definitely looking forward to seeing how it all ends. A little sad that it is ending but I'd rather the show go out with a bang than drag on for season after season until it just sucked. Vera and Freddie are still a freaking hoot together and while I will miss seeing Norma interacting with the other characters, since I assume they won't be seeing her since she's dead and they're not crazy, she and Norman together is plenty fascinating on its own.

Norman is definitely playing the normal thing to a t. It reminds me of how Perkins played Norman and his interaction with Marion up until Marion said something about his mother. The way freddie is playing Norman acting normal is how i would have pictured Norman from psycho acting out his daily life when not in a psychotic state.

[Chaos Theory]

Norman is crazy but still semi-functional.  He can pull it together long enough to go into town as long as his stress levels remain low.  My guess is the more stressful his life gets the more Mother takes control.  When Dylan and eventually Romero show up it will be just the thing to throw his weakening grip on reality completely out of wack.  

[OSM Mom]

I kept wondering what was real and what were Norman's delusions 

[Stringey]

46 minutes ago, OSM Mom said:

I kept wondering what was real and what were Norman's delusions 

It's funny i have been assuming what we see has been reality(all his interactions with people) other than of course the scenes with mother. We do know  that kitchen is not really spic and span and he is not eating home cooked meals. In am not sure why they did not go the route  of Norman preparing meals while he is under the influence of the Mother personality. What about the scene in the previews where he is dressed as her and at the stove? Seems like that would be the time when the meals could be prepared.

[Stringey]

Isn't it so awkward when your mother personality is the one in the driver seat and goes to bars and sleeps with random men.  And then once in a while the Norman personality returns and wonders oh no why is this man pawing me. Lol that was a cool sub plot.

[Ailianna]

On 3/21/2017 at 2:01 PM, Stringey said:

Isn't it so awkward when your mother personality is the one in the driver seat and goes to bars and sleeps with random men.  And then once in a while the Norman personality returns and wonders oh no why is this man pawing me. Lol that was a cool sub plot.

I think you may have posted this in the wrong thread.  It appears to relate to events of a later episode.

[smorbie]

On 2/20/2017 at 11:48 PM, mj2000 said:

Wow on the Dylan and Emma baby surprise! Please keep that baby FAR away from White Pine Bay.

Seeing Romero in prison makes me want to get incarcerated. Can this man look bad ever? Police uniform or inmate clothes he's SO gorgeous :)

I think its a pretty safe bet that Romero put a hit out on Norman.

Well, it looks like Norman and "mother" just got rid of another body!

Its official.....Norman is completely out of his mind!

 

Great episode!!!

Gotta disagree on Romero.  He's a fine looking guy, but the hair is awful.  I'm not even talking about the fact that his sideburns are gray without a speck of gray on the rest of his head.  I'm talking about the shaved-up-the-back thing.  Is this a horrible new hair style or a prison thing?

[Stringey]

16 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I think you may have posted this in the wrong thread.  It appears to relate to events of a later episode.

Yeah sorry I went and posted in the right spot.