All In The Family - General Discussion

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm watching the episode where Edith gets menopause. Archie and Edith are fixing to go on vacation to Disneyworld. Stapleton is belting out the punch lines. She finally rips into Archie to 'STIFLE' and the audience completely loses it. 

It's actually subtle even though she's yelling because Edith is worried about being an old lady. 

[SoMuchTV]

Just listened to a two part interview with Sally Struthers on Gilbert Gottfried’s podcast. Very entertaining and informative. 

[DoctorAtomic]

The back half of season 2 is strong. There's more for everyone to do, and a ton more jokes. Not just Archie doing his deal; good jokes. But A LOT OF YELLING. 

How old are Mike and Gloria supposed to be? They look the same age to me, but it seems like she's way younger. 

[Egg McMuffin]

Mike is a sophomore in college in season 2, if I’m not mistaken. He graduated at the end of season 4, and then during season 5 he was in grad school.

That’s not to say that he started college at 18, though. But I do believe he’s in his early 20s during those early seasons.

[DoctorAtomic]

Not for nothing, good for Mike for going to college, but Archie's working as the dock foreman and a cabbie. I taught community college not that long ago. Students were working and holding down jobs. I would think a hard ass like Archie would be expect Mike to contribute to the household budget. You don't have 'college' every day. He could be working. Gloria seems totally like daddy's girl so I can get Archie wouldn't expect her working and would probably object if she wanted to. 

On 1/21/2022 at 9:03 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

Mike is a sophomore in college in season 2, if I’m not mistaken. He graduated at the end of season 4, and then during season 5 he was in grad school.

That’s not to say that he started college at 18, though. But I do believe he’s in his early 20s during those early seasons.

So even 22, 23; how is he not drafted? Because he's married? 

They nailed the set and props. I've seen so much stuff in the house that my parents and aunts had. Right down to the green flowered glasses, plates, and the candle lamp thing near the front door. 

Sammy Davis, Jr., is visiting the Bunkers. They're just letting it fly and not even bothering with plot. 

"God put yous all in Africa and put us all in the white countries." "You must of told us where we were because somebody came and got us." 
That's just savage writing. 

I actually didn't know that Sammy was going to kiss Archie. Was that scripted or ad libbed? Mike, Lionel, and Gloria totally lost it and broke on the reaction shot. Evans just basically ate his hand, and Struthers wasn't even trying. Sticking the landing - it was in his contract. 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[Gemma Violet]

18 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Gloria seems totally like daddy's girl so I can get Archie wouldn't expect her working and would probably object if she wanted to. 

Gloria eventually worked.  There were several episodes of her coming home and talking about her day.  And there was the episode where she was fired for being pregnant.  

 

18 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Was that scripted or ad libbed?

Sammy kissing Archie was scripted.  According to the producers, they originally had a very weak ending for that episode and one of them came up with the kiss idea.  It resulted in one of the longest audience laughs in television history.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Gemma Violet

[Egg McMuffin]

4 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Gloria eventually worked.  There were several episodes of her coming home and talking about her day.  And there was the episode where she was fired for being pregnant.  

She worked in Kressler’s Department Store in the cosmetics department: “selling milk baths to fat cows”, in Gloria’s words.

[andidante]

There were a few times when Gloria took a few shots at Mike for not working. He totally could have, he just chose not to. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm just surprised with Archie constantly harping on Mike for not paying rent that he'd insist on some kind of job at some point. I guess if he's still a sophomore, then he's still taking a full load of required classes, but once you get into electives, you have more time. 

[Blergh]

8 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm just surprised with Archie constantly harping on Mike for not paying rent that he'd insist on some kind of job at some point. I guess if he's still a sophomore, then he's still taking a full load of required classes, but once you get into electives, you have more time. 

It beats the British sitcom this was 'inspired' by Till Death Do Us Part i(1965-1975) in which the son-in-law (also called Mike) had ZERO ambition to do anything besides live off 'the dole'. At least the Meathead WAS in college with the intent of eventually becoming qualified to be in a prosperous profession whereas the British one was happy to stay a sponge off his annoyed father-in-law and the British nation. 

BTW, the British Mike was played by one Anthony Booth (1931-2017) would become the father-in-law of the British Prime Minister Tony Blair! 

[DoctorAtomic]

That doesn't sound like you're getting much in the way of plot if he's just loafing around. British Archie has even less excuse for booting him out. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

Was the season 2 ender a back door pilot for Maude? It even looked shot different. 

I am impressed because (I obviously know Bea Arthur is a brilliant actor) the writing is completely different for Maude than for the All in the Family episode. The entire first act is just Maude and her family. 

Of course Archie wouldn't cough up 10 bucks to go out with the groom party. I mean, come on. 
Giving the box of No-Doz for the honeymoon is a *fantastic* gag. Even better Archie causing the wedding to crash. 

The second season is closed out!

I think the back half of second season was the strongest so far. A lot of that is because the characters all had more to do. For an iconic character, Archie is a huge boor. I'm sure week to week it was different back then, and it was certainly unprecedented, so the viewers probably didn't know what to make of the show at times. 

With that, this last batch of episodes is good television. Edith had more focused plots. They all did more, even if all the events took place in the living room. Obviously, Sammy Davis, but the episode about the 'investigator' was really good for sowing paranoia. Archie not wanting to talk to the police and then getting into hot water with the mafia. There was a plot involving Archie having to fire someone. 

There were some more characters coming in. There wasn't as much the family playing off Archie, even though Archie was being Archie. 

There were more genuinely funny lines too.

 

 

 

[Egg McMuffin]

Yes, that episode is the pilot for the Maude series. Note that Marcia Rodd, who played the role of Maude’s daughter, played Marilyn Sanders - who claimed that Mike was the father of her son - just a few episodes before. She was replaced in the Maude series by Adrienne Barbeau. Rodd must have been a favorite of Lear, because she showed up later in episode of Archie Bunker’s Place and also guest starred in a Maude episode (playing different characters). She was also Ann Romano’s neighbor in the original One Day at a Time pilot, and again wasn’t part of the regular series that followed.

[DoctorAtomic]

On 1/23/2022 at 9:14 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

She worked in Kressler’s Department Store in the cosmetics department: “selling milk baths to fat cows”, in Gloria’s words.

Gloria mentioned this in the first episode of season 3. She didn't say the cows line yet. 

It's interesting that they have Archie with the taxi driving second job. I wasn't around in the early 70s, but the family sitcoms in the 80s everyone only had one job. Even if there was 'drama' about the job, they always got saved by the end of the episode. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Edith is way more savvy than she lets on. She isn't too hung up on the kids discussing sex; she's not totally chill, but at the same time she isn't all wound up like Archie would be. She doesn't act like it's bad. And she got the riddle about the surgeon!

It seems like Edith is more apt to express her opinion when Archie isn't around, and it's more in line with the kids' views. 

Archie's niece is staying over, and she's going out dancing with Lionel. Edith puts 2 and 2 together quickly, and knows Archie is going to blow his stack. The nice part about it is Gloria and Mike talk to her and she quickly realizes there's nothing wrong with them going out. 

Edith goes all out on trying to get Archie to not look at the picture with the niece and Lionel. Of course it doesn't work, and Archie blows a gasket. This might be one of my favorite episodes; it wasn't so much about the race issue as the older men, both Bunker and Jefferson, being so out of touch, since they were on the same side.

Why don't people say 'honky' anymore?

I'm dying for George Jefferson to show up. Everytime so far it's been Lionel's uncle. 

[Egg McMuffin]

Somebody probably already posted this, but Norman Lear wanted Sherman Hemsley as George from the beginning, but Helmsley was committed to “Purlie” on Broadway. So George’s brother Henry was created to fill in until Hemsley was free. George finally showed up in season 4.

I loved Edith. She may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she’s a very principled, honest person who wants to learn about others and who brings out the best in people. One of the top TV characters of all time, IMHO.

[andidante]

I loved Edith too! I thought it was brilliant that Jean Stapleton had Edith run all the time, LOL.

[DoctorAtomic]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:13 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

She may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she’s a very principled, honest person who wants to learn about others and who brings out the best in people.

She's a good listener and has an open mind, but it's subtle. I don't know if it was the actor's choice, but it makes sense playing off Archie. 

22 hours ago, andidante said:

I thought it was brilliant that Jean Stapleton had Edith run all the time, LOL.

I said before the show strikes me more as a play because so much of each episode is in the living room. Now that it's brought up, I'm seeing her running around all the time. She also talks with her hands a lot. 

The only other 70s show I watched was Mary Tyler Moore, which was shot different because it was meant to be a different show. 

I can't get over the props on this show. My aunt still has some of the glasses. And the wooden salad bowl!

And Rue McLananan guest starred?! 

Edited March 6, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[Egg McMuffin]

Rue McClanahan was in the episode with the swingers, IIRC. She must have clicked with Norman Lear, because she joined the cast of “Maude” shortly after. After “Maude” was over, Lear cast her as the lead of his series “Apple Pie,” which was short-lived.

[DoctorAtomic]

On 3/6/2022 at 3:30 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

Rue McClanahan was in the episode with the swingers, IIRC.

Yes, she was. Stapleton killed it talking about answering the ad, all happy about making new friends, and Gloria's reaction shot was mortified. She called in Michael and his reaction shot was even better. The whole last two acts with the four of them was bonkers. Timeless comedy. 

I'm appreciating the subtlety of Edith. She's got great non verbal cues and reactions when Archie isn't looking and sends him up. 

The episode about Michael coming into some money from a deceased uncle was next. I think the stage directions were [yell all the time as much as you can]. It was loud. But, they said that Gloria and Michael made a deal with Archie that they could live there until Michael graduated and got a job and then pay Archie back. That was never on the show before. It's interesting that blue collar Archie actually agreed to that. 

Michael wanted to give the money to the McGovern campaign, and Archie went nuts. It was actually a good Gloria episode because she was being pulled in two directions and just blew up on Michael and Archie. They ended on election night without saying the winner. 

 

[andidante]

Did Mike ever pay him back though I wonder? I don't know if they ever mentioned it.

[DoctorAtomic]

It's only season 3, but I'll keep on it. 

[andidante]

YAY! Let me know what you think as you move forward. I am so glad to see this thread being more active!

[Egg McMuffin]

I know I’m in the minority, but I like the episodes from the later years better. Not the final season (though I think it’s underrated), but from seasons 5-8: Mike in grad school and the period where the Stivics live next door. I find the angry tone of the earlier seasons tough to take at times, and Archie can be a really hateful character in those episodes.

But by the middle of the series, they’ve started to round out all of the characters. We learn more about why Archie is the way he is, and he mellows a bit. Same thing with Mike - he’s less of a caricature, and we get to see episodes like the one where he loses out on a new job to a minority candidate, and “The Games Bunkers Play,” where some of his shortcomings (and hypocrisy) are exposed. I also like how it becomes clear that Edith is an emotionally intelligent person (even though she’s not book smart). And Gloria becomes less of a cipher, and we get to see a funnier side of her.

[andidante]

Yes the first few seasons were very shouty, LOL. It seemed to mellow out a bit, which was nice. 

[DoctorAtomic]

There is a lot of yelling.

[Cozytea]

Just wanted to give people a heads up, every season is on FreeVee. It's a free streaming App. I downloaded it to watch the new Judge Judy (Judy Justice)show and was pleasantly surprised to find All in the Family. 

[andidante]

I saw a clip online yesterday where Archie is trying to school Mike on how to put on his socks and shoes! It is too funny. 

[Egg McMuffin]

There’s a similar scene where Archie teaches Mike on the important of getting into bed using a “flap” instead of just snuggling under the sheets and blankets. Also funny.

[Egg McMuffin]

5 hours ago, Cozytea said:

Just wanted to give people a heads up, every season is on FreeVee. It's a free streaming App. I downloaded it to watch the new Judge Judy (Judy Justice)show and was pleasantly surprised to find All in the Family. 

I think Amazon has licensed a good chunk of the Norman Lear library. AITF, Maude, Good Times, and Sanford and Son are on FreeVee with ads. Diff’rent Strokes and The Jeffersons are on Prime, ad-free. Doesn’t look like Facts of Life is available though.

[andidante]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:32 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm watching the episode where Edith gets menopause. Archie and Edith are fixing to go on vacation to Disneyworld. Stapleton is belting out the punch lines. She finally rips into Archie to 'STIFLE' and the audience completely loses it. 

It's actually subtle even though she's yelling because Edith is worried about being an old lady. 

I love this episode! Edith telling Archie to stifle is the best. LOL

[DoctorAtomic]

I just watched the season 3 two-parter where it was a flashback to Gloria's wedding. Edith is completely stealing the show, but Archie's reaction shots to everything is a close second. 

 

[andidante]

15 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I just watched the season 3 two-parter where it was a flashback to Gloria's wedding. Edith is completely stealing the show, but Archie's reaction shots to everything is a close second. 

 

His reaction shots in any episodes were the best!

[januaryman]

Catchy Comedy aired a disclaimer before airing "Edith's 50th Birthday" warning of "scenes and dialogue of a strong subject matter" and slapped a TV-14 on it. I don't even think the original broadcast had such a warning. I'll be curious to see if they put anything on the KKK episodes on Wednesday night.

[DoctorAtomic]

What season is that? I'm only on 3.

[Blergh]

29 minutes ago, januaryman said:

Catchy Comedy aired a disclaimer before airing "Edith's 50th Birthday" warning of "scenes and dialogue of a strong subject matter" and slapped a TV-14 on it. I don't even think the original broadcast had such a warning. I'll be curious to see if they put anything on the KKK episodes on Wednesday night.

With the exception  of Mike who seemed to be an awkward lump.in the aftermath ,everyone rallied for Edith even Archie despite being somewhat thrown for a loop re how to deal with Edith's trauma. Except for Mike,outstanding performances by all the regulars.

Forgive me for repeating myself ,but the storyline originally was pegged for Ann Romano on the original ODAAT but Mr. Lear realized that having it happen toan unquestionably sympathetic and caring character would leave no wiggle room for audiences to attempt to say it was 'deserved' or that she 'led him on' but would encourage sympathy if not empathy for crime victims.

[andidante]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

With the exception  of Mike who seemed to be an awkward lump.in the aftermath ,everyone rallied for Edith even Archie despite being somewhat thrown for a loop re how to deal with Edith's trauma. Except for Mike,outstanding performances by all the regulars.

Forgive me for repeating myself ,but the storyline originally was pegged for Ann Romano on the original ODAAT but Mr. Lear realized that having it happen toan unquestionably sympathetic and caring character would leave no wiggle room for audiences to attempt to say it was 'deserved' or that she 'led him on' but would encourage sympathy if not empathy for crime victims.

I love Gloria in this episode! She was very strong and tough with Edith which is what she needed. 

Also I didn't know that it was intended for Ann. That is very interesting. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm watching the episode where Meathead needs his appendix out, and there's a huge argument over which doctor to call and the cost.

Archie is doing his usual thing about one of the doctors being a woman, and Gloria gives him some lip. Archie and Edith are at the table, and Archie says, 'you hear the lip on her?' Edith just says, 'mhmmm' and shoves some food in her mouth. Archie just gives her a wtf look and they cut to the living room, where Michael is on the couch. It's only a quick beat, but the audience just completely loses it. 

In the end, Archie ends up paying for the operation, but the punch line was that Archie's doctor ended up being a woman. Gloria really gives it to him. 

[januaryman]

I always blubber at Mike and Gloria's final scene and Mike's outpouring of gratitude and Archie trying to hold it together. Somebody invent a time machine so we can go back and end the series right there. Catchy spoiled it though by cutting out the bit where Edith catches Archie crying and runs back to the kitchen to announce herself.

[andidante]

42 minutes ago, januaryman said:

I always blubber at Mike and Gloria's final scene and Mike's outpouring of gratitude and Archie trying to hold it together. Somebody invent a time machine so we can go back and end the series right there. Catchy spoiled it though by cutting out the bit where Edith catches Archie crying and runs back to the kitchen to announce herself.

I always tear up too! Especially when Edith sees him and doesn't want to call attention to it. 

[Egg McMuffin]

Norman Lear wanted to end it there. I think it would be the best sitcom finale of all time if that had been the end, with the right amount of laughs and tears, and the ending shot Archie and Edith sitting in the chairs, heartbroken, as the camera pans back.

[andidante]

11 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Norman Lear wanted to end it there. I think it would be the best sitcom finale of all time if that had been the end, with the right amount of laughs and tears, and the ending shot Archie and Edith sitting in the chairs, heartbroken, as the camera pans back.

You are so right! I don't really watch the ones with Stephanie living with them. I don't think she brought much to the show. Was Norman Lear pressured to keep it going?

[Laura Holt]

2 hours ago, andidante said:

Was Norman Lear pressured to keep it going?

I know I read at one time that Carrol O'Connor wanted to keep going - can't blame him, steady work and a good paycheque!

[Egg McMuffin]

Lear ended his creative involvement with AITF after season 8 (though he still had ownership of the show and the eventually spinoff). He was OK with CBS doing an “Archie and Edith” spinoff at that point, but he didn’t want them to use the “All in the Family” title or the “Those Were The Days” theme song.

But AITF was #4 in the ratings when Rob Reiner and Sally Struthers left, and that was up from the previous year. CBS had a contractual option for another season of the show, and they exercised it. Carroll O’Connor and Jean Stapleton got big raises. This was back when TV lead actors were paid more modestly in general, and they didn’t usually make enough from their hit series to retire on.

O’Connor chose to continue with the “Archie Bunker’s Place” spinoff a year later because he received partial ownership of that spinoff and became one of the highest paid actors on TV. I can’t really blame him for continuing. He had always been a character actor prior to AITF and he did not get rich from AITF. So he chose to continue with that character even when the show was past its prime in order to secure his financial future.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Egg McMuffin

[Geeky GenXer]

Fun fact I heard the other day. Gavin McLeod auditioned for the role of Archie Bunker but felt he couldn't play the role.

[andidante]

5 hours ago, Geeky GenXer said:

Fun fact I heard the other day. Gavin McLeod auditioned for the role of Archie Bunker but felt he couldn't play the role.

I can't see him playing Archie! That would have been so different. LOL

[Blergh]

10 hours ago, Geeky GenXer said:

Fun fact I heard the other day. Gavin McLeod auditioned for the role of Archie Bunker but felt he couldn't play the role.

You know who they offered it to before they cast Mr. O'Connor?! Mickey Rooney! Yep! Thankfully, Mr. Rooney flat out rejected their offer (but tried to pitch an idea of them producing a series starring himself as a blind Vietnam vet detective with a dog).

Mr. Rooney playing Archie was almost as bogus as suggestion as Margaret Mitchell's had been for Rhett Butler: Groucho Marx!

[andidante]

28 minutes ago, Blergh said:

You know who they offered it to before they cast Mr. O'Connor?! Mickey Rooney! Yep! Thankfully, Mr. Rooney flat out rejected their offer (but tried to pitch an idea of them producing a series starring himself as a blind Vietnam vet detective with a dog).

Mr. Rooney playing Archie was almost as bogus as suggestion as Margaret Mitchell's had been for Rhett Butler: Groucho Marx!

Wow yes both of those would have been bad! LOL

[Blergh]

As long as I'm thinking about it, one of my fave exchanges between Archie and Edith popped into my head:

Archie, "And then I had to ride the subway next to  someone who'd had beans for lunch!"

Edith," Oh, that's terrible! [pause] How did you know?!"

[andidante]

2 minutes ago, Blergh said:

As long as I'm thinking about it, one of my fave exchanges between Archie and Edith popped into my head:

Archie, "And then I had to ride the subway next to  someone who'd had beans for lunch!"

Edith," Oh, that's terrible! [pause] How did you know?!"

I also love the "cling peaches in heavy syrup" episode, but I think my favorite is when Edith is going through the change. So funny!