Conspiracy Theories: What Lies At The Heart Of Westworld?

[phoenyx]

For me, the -most- interesting visible aspect of Westworld is the Maze. Up until now, there is just so much we don't know about it. 

Here's some questions to start off with:

1- Who created the maze?

2- Why was it created?

Going through the 4 episodes so far, here's what we know:

In Episode 1, The Man in black found a maze map on the inside of "Kissy"'s skull, which he had removed from Kissy's head.

In Episode 2, MiB talks to Lawrence, telling him: "Your pal Kissy sent me your way. Sends his regards.", then tosses Lawrence Kissy's scalp with the maze map on it. Lawrence professes to have no idea what it is, but MiB believes otherwise, telling him: "You know exactly what it is. It's the maze -- the deepest level of this game. You're gonna help me find the entrance." MiB then proceeds to drag him behind his horse all the way to Lawrence's hometown, where they meet up with Lawrence's wife and daughter. At this point, he asks Lawrence where he can find the entrance to the maze. Lawrence says he has no clue. MiB decides that he has to apply some pressure, so he kills Lawrence's wife. Lawrence's daughter buries her face in Lawrence's arms. MiB is about to shoot the girl as well, until she raises her head, and tells him "The maze isn't meant for you". MiB says he'll take his chances and so she tells him to "Follow the blood arroyo to the place where the snake lays its eggs.". MiB then proceeds to lead Lawrence out of town.

In Episode 3, there is no mention of the maze, the Man in Black is only seen in a flashback.

In Episode 4, we become aware that Bernard knows about the maze. We come to know this during the following secret conversation between Bernard and Dolores:

**

Dolores: I think there may be something wrong with this world. Something hiding underneath. Either that or... or there's something wrong with me. I may be losing my mind.

Bernard: There's something I'd like you to try. It's a game. A secret. It's called... the Maze.

Dolores: What kind of game is it?

Bernard: It's a very special kind of game, Dolores. The goal is to find the center of it. If you can do that, then maybe you can be free.

Dolores: I think... I think I want to be free.

**

Later on, Dolores goes to Lawrence' family's town and meets up with Lawrence daughter. Here's Dolores' dialogue with her:

**

Dolores: Good morning. It's a lovely town. Is this your home?

Lawrence's daughter shakes her head.

Dolores: Well, where are you from?

Lawrence's daughter: Same as you. Don't you remember?

A man's voice whispers to Dolores: "Remember" and Dolores sees an image of the currently burnt down church still whole. Lawrence' daughter then points towards a map of the maze that she has made on the ground. 
____

Man in Black is back as well. He gets to the Blood Arroyo and has the following dialogue with Lawrence:

**

MiB: This should be the place, Lawrence. The Blood Arroyo. Plenty of snakes, but none of the egg-laying variety.

Lawrence: You killed my wife, severely pruned my family tree, all in pursuit of some goddamn maze. The hell you hope to find, anyway?

MiB: This whole world is a story. I've read every page except the last one. I need to find out how it ends. I want to know what this all means.

...

MiB: I think we found our snake after all.

***

The "snake" he's referring to is a woman with a snake tatoo on her body. He later learns that she made the tatoo to commemorate all the people she's killed who had wronged her in the past, coloring parts of the snake as she kills those who wronged her. Only one piece of the snake remains uncoloured. She tells MiB that the man she has yet to kill is Wyatt. It seems that MiB has decided that Wyatt holds the next clue to the puzzle.

So, anyone want to offer up theories, or bring up any facts I may have missed? I also plan to add comments to this thread during the following episodes as more information on the maze becomes known.

Edited October 27, 2016 by phoenyx
Made topic title more mysterious!

[phoenyx]

Just found the preview for Episode 5, more information on the maze is in it :-)..

[arc]

The Wyatt addition bugs me, because it sure seems like Wyatt was added in a sort of "patch", to use videogame terminology, after TMIB had already entered Westworld this time. Surely he hasn't scalped Kissy multiple times? And what was Armistice's explanation for the uncoloured snake head before Wyatt was added to the narrative?

... or was Wyatt always a part of the park but just not part of Teddy's specific backstory?

[phoenyx]

16 hours ago, arc said:

The Wyatt addition bugs me, because it sure seems like Wyatt was added in a sort of "patch", to use videogame terminology, after TMIB had already entered Westworld this time. Surely he hasn't scalped Kissy multiple times? And what was Armistice's explanation for the uncoloured snake head before Wyatt was added to the narrative?

... or was Wyatt always a part of the park but just not part of Teddy's specific backstory?

I'm riding on your second guess. My guess is that Wyatt played a very large role in an android bloodbath that happened 30 years ago. Dolores is beginning to remember some dark things (the currently burnt church, back when it was whole, you begin to wonder, what happened to it?), thanks in part to Lawrence' daughter. And Maeve has some very dark memories as well.

Edited October 27, 2016 by phoenyx

[paigow]

Ford is already confronting MIB halfway through the season...maybe Ford is the Ned Stark of Westworld...MIB kills him and triggers chaos....

[ennui]

14 hours ago, arc said:

The Wyatt addition bugs me, because it sure seems like Wyatt was added in a sort of "patch", to use videogame terminology

I think Wyatt is new, but not necessarily a patch. I think Wyatt is part of Ford's new narrative, that he is carving out large swaths of the park to accommodate. I think Ford is planting the Wyatt story into several hosts, so that the story unfolds and all the right characters end up in the right place at the right time.

[arc]

5 minutes ago, ennui said:

I think Wyatt is new, but not necessarily a patch. I think Wyatt is part of Ford's new narrative, that he is carving out large swaths of the park to accommodate. I think Ford is planting the Wyatt story into several hosts, so that the story unfolds and all the right characters end up in the right place at the right time.

But if he's new, how did he figure into Armistice's backstory? Armistice had that tattoo on her face back in episode 1, before Wyatt was added, or at least before he was added to Teddy's story.

[Gobi]

I wondered whether Armistice had the tattoo in the first episode, I couldn't remember. Even if she did, that doesn't mean it had the same, or any explanation, just as Teddy did not know his back story with Wyatt until Ford uploaded it.

I don't think TMIB knows what the maze is. It seems he believes the maze is a part of the park where the stakes are real, and he could well die at the hands of a host.

The maze does seem to be some sort of testing area for the hosts. Perhaps if they master it, that shows they are sentient and are either promoted to the staff or destroyed. That might support the theory some have that Bernard and the head of security are robots. Speaking of Bernard, notice how Theresa uses him like a sex-bot? And if he is a bot, that would help explain why he isn't bothered by cheating on his wife. For the record, though, I'm not yet a Bernard Is A Bot team member.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Gobi
Grammar

[arc]

22 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I wondered whether Armistice had the tattoo in the first episode, I couldn't remember. Even if she did, that doesn't mean it had the same, or any explanation, just as Teddy did not know his back story with Wyatt until Ford uploaded it.

Yeah, that's fair, though I feel like even Sizemore would have filled in (sorry, unintentional pun) the backstory on the partially completed tattoo, whereas it seems eminently plausible that leaving Teddy with "he feels guilty about TBD" was acceptable.

[ennui]

If Armistice was designed to lose gun battles all the time, they wouldn't have given her a backstory, same as Teddy. She could have been programmed with a vague revenge plot without details. So far, she and Hector die every time they come to town.

I just learned that they've got five seasons planned and already know the ending.

Edited October 27, 2016 by ennui

[Gobi]

Another odd thing about Armistice. TMIB asks "How come I never met  you before?" when he meets her. This from a man who knows almost all of the hosts by name. Since  the attack on the town by Hector's gang seems to be a regular event, she must be a very new host.

[arc]

10 minutes ago, ennui said:

If Armistice was designed to lose gun battles all the time, they wouldn't have given her a backstory, same as Teddy. She could have been programmed with a vague revenge plot without details. So far, she and Hector die every time they come to town.

I suspect the saloon robbery could go either way. It's hosts robbing other hosts, and guests can join in with the gang or with the sheriffs. Actually, given that guests did join up with the gang in ep 4, you'd think she would have had enough of a backstory to tell guests at campfire nights.

[phoenyx]

10 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Another odd thing about Armistice. TMIB asks "How come I never met  you before?" when he meets her. This from a man who knows almost all of the hosts by name. Since  the attack on the town by Hector's gang seems to be a regular event, she must be a very new host.

I think the fact that TMIB comments on never having met her before, suggesting that she's relatively new is a -very- good point, thanks for pointing that out :-)

Edited October 27, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

4 minutes ago, arc said:

I suspect the saloon robbery could go either way. It's hosts robbing other hosts, and guests can join in with the gang or with the sheriffs. Actually, given that guests did join up with the gang in ep 4, you'd think she would have had enough of a backstory to tell guests at campfire nights.

Good point on Armistice's backstory. One thing regarding robbing the host's safe though: remember what TMIB tells Hector in Episode 4:

"And a word of advice... that thing you're looking for? You're never gonna find it in that safe."

What, exactly, is Hector looking for in the safe?

[phoenyx]

On 10/27/2016 at 6:03 PM, Gobi said:

I wondered whether Armistice had the tattoo in the first episode, I couldn't remember.

She does, I just checked, you can see it 49 minutes in.

Edited October 29, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

I don't think TMIB knows what the maze is. It seems he believes the maze is a part of the park where the stakes are real, and he could well die at the hands of a host.

I kind of agree with you, though I think he's beginning to learn. Another thing, TMIB is apparently very interested in giving hosts the ability to choose their own paths- he also seems to have admired Arnold; I wonder if they knew each other personally. Another thing, at this point, I'm not sure if anyone we've seen so far really understands what the maze is. The most in depth explanation I've heard is from Bernard: "It's a very special kind of game, Dolores. The goal is to find the center of it. If you can do that, then maybe you can be free", but that is still pretty vague. One thing I'm thankful for, TMIB seems to be killing people less and talking to them more, starting with Armistice. And now it looks like he's going after Wyatt, who is apparently -really- messed up, so if he kills him, it will quite possibly save a lot of other lives.

Edited October 27, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Ford is already confronting MIB halfway through the season...maybe Ford is the Ned Stark of Westworld...MIB kills him and triggers chaos....

I don't see Ford as a Ned Stark at all. More like Tywin Lannister, though perhaps not quite that bad. As to MiB, I don't think he really has an analogue in Game of Thrones. Initially, he seemed heartless, killing any host he thought might bring him closer to finding out how to get to the maze. But it -seems- like he's lightened up a bit and is beginning to care more about the hosts he's interacting with, not just the destination he seeks. And frankly, I am -hoping- that his confrontation with Ford might actually do -Ford- some good, in the sense that perhaps it'll show Ford that his treating hosts like they are simply tools to be used is not only morally objectionable, but downright dangerous. In the preview to Episode 5, there's the following exchange between Ford and MiB:

**

MiB: "Have you made a worthy adversary? Someone to stop me from finding the center of the maze"

Ford: "And what is it you're hoping to find there?"

MiB: "Something true."

**

As to MiB killing Ford, it seems like it's MiB who may not make it too much further. I have heard that MiB may not be around after the first 2 seasons.

Edited October 27, 2016 by phoenyx

[Gobi]

32 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

Good point on Armistice's backstory. One thing regarding robbing the host's safe though: remember what TMIB tells Hector in Episode 4:

"And a word of advice... that thing you're looking for? You're never gonna find it in that safe."

What, exactly, is Hector looking for in the safe?

I took that to mean that TMIB knows that the robbery will always be thwarted, therefore Hector will never get what's in the safe (if there even is anything in the safe). YMMV.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Gobi
Spelling

[phoenyx]

One last point, I think it's pretty important. In the preview of Episode 5, Dolores tells William:

"The whole world is calling to me, in a way it hasn't before"

Then, she can be seen taking off a piece of her skin, and my guess is she's going to find something underneath. I'm not really sure what the maze is, exactly, but I have a strong feeling that Dolores is central to it.

8 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I took that to mean that TMIB knows that the robbery will always be thwarted, therefore Hector will never get what's in the safe (if there even is anything in the safe). YMMV.

Originally, I thought that too, but if that were the case, MIB could have just said: "You're never going to -open- that safe". And even if Hector never manages to open the safe, it still leaves the unanswered question of what, exactly, he's looking for in the safe.

Edited October 27, 2016 by phoenyx

[paigow]

19 hours ago, Gobi said:

I took that to mean that TMIB knows that the robbery will always be thwarted, therefore Hector will never get what's in the safe (if there even is anything in the safe). YMMV.

The briefcase of Marcellus Wallace...

[DarkRaichu]

21 hours ago, phoenyx said:

As to MiB killing Ford, it seems like it's MiB who may not make it too much further. I have heard that MiB may not be around after the first 2 seasons.

Even in the preview you can see MiB is no match for Ford as Teddy simply stopped him. cold.

[ennui]

On 10/27/2016 at 3:56 PM, phoenyx said:

Good point on Armistice's backstory. One thing regarding robbing the host's safe though: remember what TMIB tells Hector in Episode 4:

"And a word of advice... that thing you're looking for? You're never gonna find it in that safe."

What, exactly, is Hector looking for in the safe?

I took it to be another snarky comment from MiB to the hosts, like the things he says to Teddy ("Misery is all you've got," which would go over Teddy's head). Hector is programmed to steal the safe, which should be full of cash (it's a whorehouse), but the safe is probably empty. I doubt Hector knows what he's looking for, he's only going through the motions.

[paigow]

16 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Even in the preview you can see MiB is no match for Ford as Teddy simply stopped him. cold.

MiB could simply kill Teddy and any other host in the room...then kill Ford. Teddy is following his samaritan programming, but will he kill MiB? Does this mean Ford can turn any host into a people killer? And MiB knows that standard game rules are now gone?

Edited October 29, 2016 by paigow

[Gobi]

9 minutes ago, paigow said:

Does this mean Ford can override the safety subroutine at will? MiB should simply kill Teddy and any other host in the room...then kill Ford

It looked to me like Teddy was using his Good Samaritan programming to stop TMIB.

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, Gobi said:

It looked to me like Teddy was using his Good Samaritan programming to stop TMIB.

Agreed. What I am saying is that Teddy is supposed to die rather than kill a human. Therefore, MiB knows there is no actual danger and can find some contrived way to kill Teddy. Unless Ford has triggered hidden code that allows Teddy to kill humans.  If Teddy kills MiB to protect Ford, the other hosts will learn from this and eventually repeat history...

[Gobi]

29 minutes ago, paigow said:

Agreed. What I am saying is that Teddy is supposed to die rather than kill a human. Therefore, MiB knows there is no actual danger and can find some contrived way to kill Teddy. Unless Ford has triggered hidden code that allows Teddy to kill humans.  If Teddy kills MiB to protect Ford, the other hosts will learn from this and eventually repeat history...

Got it. Good point.

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

MiB could simply kill Teddy and any other host in the room...then kill Ford. Teddy is following his samaritan programming, but will he kill MiB? Does this mean Ford can turn any host into a people killer? And MiB knows that standard game rules are now gone?

The move that Teddy pulled ws too quick and efficient to be just a regular good samaritan programming.  He basically blocked MIB from doing any other action with the knife.  It looked like a "protect the creator at any cost" type of move.

Had he pulled that move in front of any other guests, it would have taken them out of the whole wild west experience

Edited October 29, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[arc]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

The move that Teddy pulled ws too quick and efficient to be just a regular good samaritan programming.  He basically blocked MIB from doing any other action with the knife.  It looked like a "protect the creator at any cost" type of move.

Had he pulled that move in front of any other guests, it would have taken them out of the whole wild west experience

I think that is what the Good Samaritan reflex is about. I'm sure Delos would prefer immersion breaking to letting a guest get injured or killed.

[phoenyx]

On 10/28/2016 at 8:49 PM, ennui said:

I took it to be another snarky comment from MiB to the hosts, like the things he says to Teddy ("Misery is all you've got," which would go over Teddy's head). Hector is programmed to steal the safe, which should be full of cash (it's a whorehouse), but the safe is probably empty. I doubt Hector knows what he's looking for, he's only going through the motions.

I think I know what Hector's looking for- to fulfill his drives, to be happy. Anyway, you may be right, there may be nothing in that safe, or just a stash of Westworld cash. But you never know :-). 

[phoenyx]

12 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

The move that Teddy pulled ws too quick and efficient to be just a regular good samaritan programming.  He basically blocked MIB from doing any other action with the knife.  It looked like a "protect the creator at any cost" type of move.

Had he pulled that move in front of any other guests, it would have taken them out of the whole wild west experience

One thing I'd like to point out- up until that preview of episode 5, we have never seen an interaction wherein 1 human is attempting to hurt another in front of a host. Because of this, we have no knowledge as to how a host would react to such a circumstance with humans who aren't Ford. Definitely looking forward to seeing what happens after the knife is buried in the table :-). 

[arc]

The safe is a real safe used by the brothel, so presumably Maeve fills it up with cash.

I'm guessing TMIB is explaining his frustration with the safety measures in Westworld, so the stab attempt is to trigger the Good Samaritan reflex for emphasis and because it makes a better visual for a TV show than just talking about it. That is, I don't think he intends real harm to Ford in that moment.

[phoenyx]

3 hours ago, arc said:

The safe is a real safe used by the brothel, so presumably Maeve fills it up with cash.

I'm guessing TMIB is explaining his frustration with the safety measures in Westworld, so the stab attempt is to trigger the Good Samaritan reflex for emphasis and because it makes a better visual for a TV show than just talking about it. That is, I don't think he intends real harm to Ford in that moment.

Presumably, yes, but I'd rather know for sure- also, even if the safe has westworld cash in it, it may also have something else in it too- more drawings from Maeve perhaps ;-). Yeah, I'm not going to let this go until I see what's in that safe :-). I wouldn't be surprised if MiB was considering really harming Ford, but you may be right as well. So many possibilities :-)

Edited October 30, 2016 by phoenyx

[paigow]

Here's my theory...Originally Ford and Arnold worked on curing illness / handicaps through robotics, funded by the MiB Foundation [saving unnamed dude's sister]. Eventually, funding requirements for military and entertainment applications outstripped the Foundation's resources. Enter DBag venture capitalists like Logan's family. Said DBags were subsequently bought out by Delos Corp.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, arc said:

The safe is a real safe used by the brothel, so presumably Maeve fills it up with cash.

But I have not seen anybody [host or human] pay for anything in the bar....and if the girls only charge $4 /hr...a cigar box would do....

[Gobi]

5 minutes ago, paigow said:

But I have not seen anybody [host or human] pay for anything in the bar....and if the girls only charge $4 /hr...a cigar box would do....

I've seen some payments. Teddy, for example, used money from the female guest to pay Maeve for the inconvenience of having a dead body chained outside her saloon. Also, the bartender removed money from Kissy (that he had stolen) before he left the saloon. My impression was that this was just play money, given to the guests to maintain the illusion of being in the Old West.

[phoenyx]

2 minutes ago, paigow said:

Here's my theory...Originally Ford and Arnold worked on curing illness / handicaps through robotics, funded by the MiB Foundation [saving unnamed dude's sister]. Eventually, funding requirements for military and entertainment applications outstripped the Foundation's resources. Enter DBag venture capitalists like Logan's family. Said DBags were subsequently bought out by Delos Corp.

An interesting theory. One thing I definitely believe is that, originally, Ford was very happy working on Westworld. As he mentioned to Bernard in Episode 3: "Those early years were glorious. No guests, no board meetings, just pure creation. Our hosts began to pass the Turing test after the first year." And then, yeah, along came the money men, which Arnold begged Ford not to not let in. But let them in he did, perhaps for the very reason you mention- a lack of sufficient funding for their ventures. I wonder if the decision to let the money men in was somehow the true root cause for the tragedy that resulted in Arnold's death. 

[phoenyx]

8 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I've seen some payments. Teddy, for example, used money from the female guest to pay Maeve for the inconvenience of having a dead body chained outside her saloon. Also, the bartender removed money from Kissy (that he had stolen) before he left the saloon. My impression was that this was just play money, given to the guests to maintain the illusion of being in the Old West.

Most money today is basically just of the iou variety and has no value outside of the economic system within which it is used. In the real world, that economic system spans the globe, but it will work in any self contained economic system. So Westworld money can be very real within Westworld itself. Furthermore, I believe someone in this forum did some digging and found out that guests are only "staked" a bit of Westworld cash, after which they have to get it within Westworld itself. Questions arise from this, ofcourse:

1- How much cash is given per guest? Can they go somewhere each day in some tech part of westworld to get a new amount, a guest ATM if you will? This would make sense, as each day they are paying a lot of -real- money, only makes sense that the Westworld staff gives them a certain amount of Westworld cash.

2- Are they allowed to buy more westworld cash with real money?

3- How easy is it to get Westworld cash from within Westworld itself?

Edited October 30, 2016 by phoenyx

[arc]

1 & 2) I bet your initial stake depends on which package you choose. But the way I read the description on the website chat*, there's no regular contact with the outside world to do even something like get more Westworldbucks. (Though come to think of it, a real analogue to Westworld would probably be happy to upsell guests to Silver or Gold packages partway through.)

* caveat that website information is not as canon as what's shown onscreen.

3) at the minimum, can't be that hard to rob a drunk or two. And there's gambling and panning for gold. Or just take a simple bounty hunt.

Edited October 30, 2016 by arc

[phoenyx]

12 minutes ago, arc said:

1 & 2) I bet your initial stake depends on which package you choose. But the way I read the description on the website chat*, there's no regular contact with the outside world to do even something like get more Westworldbucks. (Though come to think of it, a real analogue to Westworld would probably be happy to upsell guests to Silver or Gold packages partway through.)

* caveat that website information is not as canon as what's shown onscreen.

3) at the minimum, can't be that hard to rob a drunk or two. And there's gambling and panning for gold. Or just take a simple bounty hunt.

Good points. One thing I'd like to mention though, is that I think that the show isn't really focusing too much on Westworld money though- I think paigow might be on the right track- that is, that you don't actually need all that much Westworld cash for the things that are available at Westworld. One thing I'd like to point out, MiB is getting ViP treatment from staff. Here's a bit of dialogue from Episode 2 where surveillance just realized that MiB took out an entire posse and looks like he's about to take out another:

**

Surveillance Tech: This guest already took out an entire posse. Want me to slow him down?

Ashley Stubbs: That gentleman gets whatever he wants.

**

This is main reason that I think that MiB might actually be the board member that Theresa mentioned was coming to Westworld in Episode 4, only to have Ford tell her that he was already in Westworld. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

The preview for the weeks ahead reveals quite a bit. The question is, who is Ford talking to when he asks: "I designed every part of this place. Do you really think I would let you take it from me?" Right now I'm thinking Dolores, but I acknowledge it may be MiB or even someone else. Watch the whole preview, here:

[Gobi]

3 hours ago, phoenyx said:

The preview for the weeks ahead reveals quite a bit. The question is, who is Ford talking to when he asks: "I designed every part of this place. Do you really think I would let you take it from me?" Right now I'm thinking Dolores, but I acknowledge it may be MiB or even someone else. Watch the whole preview, here:

 

I thought it would be Theresa or the other Delos rep who hasn't been identified yet.

[phoenyx]

53 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I thought it would be Theresa or the other Delos rep who hasn't been identified yet.

You really think Theresa would be the spokesperson for this? I just don't think she has an interest in taking over the park, not personally at any rate. Dolores I can see why she'd do it, it's either that or misery, MiB seems dead set on finding the center of the maze and if taking over Westworld is what's required, I can't imagine him backing down. Ironically, MiB may well -be- the Delos rep that Ford has said had already arrived, but if he isn't, and there is someone else, someone who I assume is in a higher position than Theresa, I could see it being that person. 

[Gobi]

18 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

You really think Theresa would be the spokesperson for this? I just don't think she has an interest in taking over the park, not personally at any rate. Dolores I can see why she'd do it, it's either that or misery, MiB seems dead set on finding the center of the maze and if taking over Westworld is what's required, I can't imagine him backing down. Ironically, MiB may well -be- the Delos rep that Ford has said had already arrived, but if he isn't, and there is someone else, someone who I assume is in a higher position than Theresa, I could see it being that person. 

I don't know whether Theresa would be the spokesperson, but I do think the most likely person to threaten to take control away from Ford would be someone from Delos.

[phoenyx]

33 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I don't know whether Theresa would be the spokesperson, but I do think the most likely person to threaten to take control away from Ford would be someone from Delos.

You don't think Dolores is likely to threaten it? I mean, in terms of motivation, I'd think she has a lot more motivation to do it then Delos. For Delos, it's just a business venture. For Dolores and the other androids, it's nothing less than the freedom to run their own lives. What's more, it now seems apparent that they've already rebelled before.

Edited November 1, 2016 by phoenyx

[Gobi]

9 minutes ago, phoenyx said:

You don't think Dolores is likely to threaten it? I mean, in terms of motivation, I'd think she has a lot more motivation to do it then Delos. For Delos, it's just a business venture. For Dolores and the other androids, it's nothing less than the freedom to run their own lives. What's more, it now seems apparent that they've already rebelled before.

To me, the quote doesn't sound like something he would say to Delores. Maybe if there was a full scale host rebellion going on.

Wouldn't surprise me if we're both wrong and It's Arnold!

[phoenyx]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

To me, the quote doesn't sound like something he would say to Delores. Maybe if there was a full scale host rebellion going on.

Wouldn't surprise me if we're both wrong and It's Arnold!

Actually, I had been thinking of saying it might be Arnold in a sense. It seems that a part of him may be in Dolores. Anyway, I definitely think that the Androids have a lot more at stake in this then Delos.

[phoenyx]

I found an awesome article online:

http://www.polygon.com/tv/2016/10/31/13476484/westworld-season-1-episode-5-arnold

I'll just quote some of the last paragraph, as it's my favourite part:

**We do know we’re halfway through the first season, however, and that means that it’s only going to escalate from here... the characters are going to reveal a bit more and it looks like the hosts are getting ready to begin their uprising. Maybe. Or maybe that’s just my hope.**

Seems to me the androids/hosts are already doing a bit of an uprising, though at present it's still a fairly peaceful one. There's also something else I realized. I've already come to the conclusion that Dolores is central to the maze. Then I started thinking about her original father, Peter Abernathy. In particular, a conversation Ford has with him in the "examination room". Here's the transcript:

**

Ford: Access your current build, please. (Pause while Peter Abernathy complies.) What is your name?

Peter: Rose is a rose ... is a rose. (Grows quiet and looks down.)

Ford: What is your itinerary?

Peter: To meet my maker.

Ford: Uh-huh. (Ford glances over at Bernard, then looks back at Abernathy.) Well, you're in luck. And what do you want to say to your maker?

Peter: By most mechanical and dirty hand (laughs) I shall have such revenges on you (turns and looks at Bernard) both. The things I will do. What they are, yet I know not, but they will be the terrors of the earth. (Abernathy quickly moves forward and grabs Ford by his arms.) You don't know where you are, do you? You're in a prison of your own sins. (laughs)

[Security and Theresa Cullen quickly enter the room. The security men grab Abernathy.]

Theresa: Turn it off. (Abernathy powers down.)

Theresa (to Bernard): What the hell was that?

Bernard: I don't know. He's off script. We didn't program any of those behaviors.

Ford: Shakespeare. We've used this host in a number of different roles, have we not?

Bernard: Since I've been here, he's been Abernathy for 10 years. He was sheriff for a while before then. And before that --

Ford: The professor!

Bernard: Yes, from a horror narrative called "The Dinner Party." He was leader of a group of cultists out in the desert who turned cannibal.

Ford: He liked to quote Shakespeare, John Donne, Gertrude Stein. I admit the last one is a bit of an anachronism, but I couldn't resist.

Bernard: These are fragments of prior builds. The reveries must be allowing him to access them.

Ford: No cause for alarm, Bernard. Simply our old work coming back to haunt us.

**

Then I started thinking, could Peter Abernathy -be- Wyatt? He certainly sounds like he might be. In my search for the origins of Wyatt, I think I've found the jackpot, the one I theorized about without realizing that Ford had actually corroborated in the very first episode. That is, that the character of Wyatt is "rooted in truth". Ford first mentions Wyatt when he's speaking to Teddy in Episode 1. He also lends credence to those who thought that thought that Ford knows full well what many shady guests do to Dolores. Here's what he says:

**

Ford: No ... you never will. Your job is not to protect Dolores, it's to keep her here -- to ensure that the guests find her if they want to best the stalwart gunslinger ... and have their way with this girl. Tell me, has it never occurred to you to run off with her?

Teddy: I got some reckoning to do before I can be with her.

Ford: Ah, yes, your mysterious backstory. It's the reason for my visit. Do you know why it is a mystery, Teddy? Because we never actually bothered to give you one, just a formless guilt you will never atone for. But perhaps it is time you had a ... worthy story of origin. Would you like that, Teddy? -- a small part of my new narrative? A fiction which, like all great stories, is rooted in truth? It starts in a time of war -- a world in flames ... with a villain called ... Wyatt.

Teddy: Wyatt. Who's Wyatt?

Ford:Do you remember now, Teddy? (Ford presses the upload key on his tablet and uploads Teddy's "host narrative". Flashes of a man wearing a Union Army uniform shooting people in town cross Teddy's mind as he recounts his knowledge of Wyatt. )

Teddy: Yeah, of course I remember Wyatt. You look upon the face of true evil, you ain't liable to forget. He claimed he could hear the voice of God. It started down near Escalante. Army was sent to put down the natives -- bad business. Wyatt was a sergeant, went missing while out on some maneuvers ... and came back a few weeks later ... with some pretty strange ideas.

**
So, could Peter Abernathy's cultist leader role have been slightly modified to create Wyatt? I think it's relatively plausible. Which means that when we finally catch up to Wyatt, the android playing him may be none other then Dolores' original father. One last thing- if Wyat's original incarnation was Peter Abernath's former incarnation as the evil cultist professor, what got him to be the way he is? One thing I've also been thinking about- could Armistice have formerly been Maeve's daughter? I came up with that because she talks about having had her mother killed and having to smear her mother's blood on her to pretend to be dead. In one flashback Maeve has, she's with her daughter and what look like people out to get them are about to fall on them. 

[phoenyx]

One last point about Armistice. There was some interesting information revealed about her that may tie her to the cultists in Episode 3's "The Stray". I think what they may both have in common is the whole "bicameral mind", hearing voices (which, ofcourse, is something that Dolores also hears). Here's the dialogue in question:

**

Ford: Those early years were glorious. No guests, no board meetings, just pure creation. Our hosts began to pass the Turing test after the first year. But that wasn't enough for Arnold. He--he wasn't interested in the appearance of intellect or wit. He wanted the real thing. He wanted to create consciousness. He imagined it as a pyramid. (Ford turns to the chalkboard and draws a pyramid with four horizontal divisions and labels them from bottom to top.) See? Memory ... improvisation ... self-interest -- 

Bernard: And at the top?

Ford: Never got there. But he had a notion of what it might be. He based it on a theory of consciousness called the Bicameral Mind.

Bernard: The idea that primitive man believed his thoughts to be the voice of the gods. I thought it was debunked.

Ford: As a theory for understanding the human mind, perhaps, but not as a blueprint for building an artificial one. See, Arnold built a version of that cognition in which the hosts heard their programming as an inner monologue ... with the hopes that in time, their own voice would take over. It was a way bootstrap consciousness. (Ford sits down behind his desk.) But Arnold hadn't considered two things. One, that in this place, the last thing you want the hosts to be is conscious, and two, the other group who considered their thoughts to be the voices of the gods.

Bernard (soft laugh): Lunatics.

Ford: Indeed. (Another scene from "those early years" flashes -- Armistice is seated, talking to a technician. Her hair is disheveled. She has deep scratches on her face and upper torso just below the neck. She stops talking and looks directly into the camera.) We abandoned the approach. The only vestiges that remain are the voice commands we use to control them. (Ford stands back up.) But, for all his brilliance, I don't think Arnold understood what this place was going to be. You see, the guests enjoy power. They cannot indulge it in the outside world, so they come here. As for the hosts -- the least we can do is ... make them forget.

Bernard: But ... some of them are remembering -- accessing fragments of Arnold's code. If I may ask, what happened to him?

Ford: Well, he died ... here in the park. His personal life was marked by tragedy. He put all his hopes into his work. His search for consciousness ... consumed him totally -- barely spoke to anyone ... except the hosts. In his alienation, he saw something in them. He saw something that ... wasn't there. We called it an accident, but um ... I knew Arnold and he was very ... very careful. Anyway, the update should prevent any further voices, but you will let me know if any of the hosts display or exhibit any unusual behavior, won't you, Bernard?

**

A few takeaways- Look at how Ford words some of his final lines here: "I don't think understand what this place was going to be". That can certainly be true, but what Ford is not mentioning here (but he does mention with Theresa) is that Arnold -begged- Ford not to let the money men in. Ofcourse, Ford clearly did. My guess is that when he did, Arnold may have decided to start an android uprising. The issue of how he died is something I constantly wonder about though. I speculated before that I think Arnold probably disabled the failsafes in atleast some of the androids, perhaps to engage in the revolution- perhaps one of the androids that was freed from the restriction not to kill humans decided to kill him. It makes me question other things as well. Quoting a passage from Episode 1 that I've quoted before:

**

Ford: The professor!

Bernard: Yes, from a horror narrative called "The Dinner Party." He was leader of a group of cultists out in the desert who turned cannibal.

Ford: He liked to quote Shakespeare, John Donne, Gertrude Stein. I admit the last one is a bit of an anachronism, but I couldn't resist.

**

So one of Peter Abernathy's prior builds was the "professor" and "leader of a group of cultists in the desert turned cannibal." Did Ford create this "horror narrative", or was this something the androids themselves created? Note how he says that Peter was the leader of a group of cultists in the desert who -turned- cannibal, but he never says that he's the one who got them to turn that way. It also brings up yet another issue- what do the robots need to keep operational? Is that ubiquitous milk involved? Perhaps that is the best way, but perhaps blood transfusions would be a way if you couldn't access the milk- perhaps that's why the cultists in the desert turned cannibal- no longer part of the "program" if you will, they were no longer able to get the milk, so they turned to the only other way they could survive, via blood transfusions.

Edited November 2, 2016 by phoenyx

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, phoenyx said:

One thing I've also been thinking about- could Armistice have formerly been Maeve's daughter?

Maeve's daughter (in her flashback) was dark skinned and they were running away from the natives attacking their farm.  Although Armistice' story could be part of a different past narrative where Maeve was her mother ;)

[phoenyx]

6 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Maeve's daughter (in her flashback) was dark skinned and they were running away from the natives attacking their farm.  Although Armistice' story could be part of a different past narrative where Maeve was her mother ;)

Yeah, I remember. That's what I'm thinking- that they may have taken the girl's memory core and implanted it into Armistice, editing some parts out (what her mother looks like, for instance) to avoid her recognizing Maeve when she goes into town.

Edited November 2, 2016 by phoenyx