Daenerys Targaryen: Rumor Is She'll (Loudly) Take What is Hers

[stillshimpy]

With Fire and Blood! Various Shouted Things! Most importantly she has Dragons, if you haven't heard (which would be a miracle, unless you're deaf). 

And a former-slave army of Eunuchs.  That's helps too. 

[WhiteStumbler]

There have been two references to Targaryen rulers who thought they would be somehow transformed into dragons.

The first was when Joffs was giving his tour of the Sept of Baelor to Margaery and told her about Areion Brightflame, who "thought drinking wildfire would turn him into a dragon", and then Jaime told Brienne this about the Mad King: "'Burn them all,' he kept saying. 'Burn them all.' I don't think he expected to die. He, he meant to burn with the rest of us and rise again, reborn as a dragon, to turn his enemies to ash."

My spitball is that some sort of noble sacrifice by Dany will lead to her death, but that her sacrifice will allow her to turn into an actual dragon at the end of the story and triumph over the White Walkers.

That, or she stays on the far side of the Narrow Sea after freeing all the Slave Cities and says "Yup, I'm done. Just gonna chill here where people call me "mhysa". Besides, there is no slavery over in Westeros, so what would be the point in heading over there? (yawn) Jorah, could you bring Daario and I breakfast in bed?"

[RadiantAerynSun]

I actually thought those crazy Targaryens were trying to prove that they were what Dany actually IS: a fireproof "true Dragon". They may have known it was a possible family trait (or maybe had dreams about it) and assumed they were endowed with it but - nope no such luck!  Dany survived being burned in a fire, but even before that, her hands didn't burn on the hot dragon eggs, nor did she mind the reall hot bath in S1E1, so I think all along she was impervious to fire.

[izabella]

I have a hard time taking Dany seriously.  To me, she's always been the "sexy slave warrior princess superhero teenage-boy fantasy."   I could easily see her as a comic book heroine.  With dragons! 

And that's about all I get out of her.  I feel like her story should touch me, but she seems so remote, and not just in geography. 

Edited April 17, 2014 by izabella

[stillshimpy]

Ha! I know what you mean, Constantinople , I'm sure Dany has fans based specifically on that kind of "Kickass, beautiful, really likes sex too!" teenage dream thing for a lot of guys.  

However, I think Dany has been slowly coming into her own.  I really didn't like the original Daario , he had a cheesy romance-novel thing going on that just made me recoil a bit.  Apparently the show also felt he wasn't hitting quite the right note.  

I think the recast really helps with the "Teenage Warrior Princess! Let me just slip into my leotard of justice...with spangles!'" thing going on for Dany though.  Emilia Clarke has a little more screen badassery in contrast to a slightly more "cute trained puppy...who might soil your rug or chew up all your shoes" new and improved for less slip-and-slime Daario.  The first one sort of underlined that "Dany is a dude's idea of a powerful woman, vs. a powerful woman...and sometimes they really aren't the same thing...because women don't fall for that obviously cheesy stuff that easily....particularly when they can raze cities on their own...." ,  

So yeah, the first Daario had the whiff of snakeoil salesman and born manipulator and this one has a believably sincere vibe.  Shifts the feeling of the balance of power for me and makes Dany a lot more believable as a force unto herself, I think. 

Edited April 17, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Pallas]

My spitball is that some sort of noble sacrifice by Dany will lead to her death, but that her sacrifice will allow her to turn into an actual dragon at the end of the story and triumph over the White Walkers.

I love this idea, White Stumbler.  I only wonder if Martin would go there, after Dune.  I've no way of knowing if he read that saga, but there are so many echoes, I feel certain that he did. (Actually, it was the way Ned reminded me of Duke Leto and the role he played that made me suspect very quickly that Ned was doomed very early.  And, that this story was really about the next generation.  That terrible bare prophecy: "For the father, nothing.")

I have a hard time taking Dany seriously.  To me, she's always been the "sexy slave warrior princess superhero teenage-boy fantasy."   I could easily see her as a comic book heroine.  With dragons! -- izabella

How long since we've had a single quiet moment with Dany?  Heard her in conversation, seen her do anything but lead the troops? Who the hell is she, what's she thinking, what quickens her, what catches her attention?  She's like the final season Buffy: all action, no talk; all armor, no inner.  But please: more stilted dialogue with Daario as overture and score to an affair is not what I mean about fleshing her out.  

[izabella]

How long since we've had a single quiet moment with Dany?  Heard her in conversation, seen her do anything but lead the troops? Who the hell is she, what's she thinking, what quickens her, what catches her attention?  She's like the final season Buffy: all action, no talk; all armor, no inner.  But please: more stilted dialogue with Daario as overture and score to an affair is not what I mean about fleshing her out.  

We were allowed into her thoughts and feelings more in Season 1.  Lately, she's become mostly just an action figure. 

I'd like to know what's going on in her head.  She's the Mother of Dragons, but what does that mean to her?  Is she just focused on her mission to the exclusion of everything else, or what?  Is there a Dany outside of her mission?

[stillshimpy]

We were allowed into her thoughts and feelings more in Season 1.  Lately, she's become mostly just an action figure.

That's kind of fitting though, it's been since at least season two that Dany had anyone she could talk to as a peer, rather than as an underling, or someone she's trying to conquer (any one of the slavers, so talk runs to a lot of variations of "no seriously, you should give up now, or I will kick your ass, so you should listen") , persuade (everyone in Qarth "Hey, I know I'm a woman, but I still have a destiny to rule over everyone and I am special, you should listen...or else I will kick your ass....also, hands off my dragons") or deflect ("Jorah, what the hell? I don't see you as anything more than a friend-friend.  Yikes, is this what comes of talking to dudes, do they all assume that it's a prelude to getting busy and making babies? Yipes. Also? Hands off my metaphorical dragons, you get my drift?" ) 

She's stuck in the role of leader without a confidant. 

 

 

I'd like to know what's going on in her head.  She's the Mother of Dragons, but what does that mean to her?  Is she just focused on her mission to the exclusion of everything else, or what?  Is there a Dany outside of her mission?

Again, there appears to be an actual story reason for that.  The chessboard seems to be set for Dany to understand the isolation that comes with ruling, with wearing a literal or a figurative crown.  It actually makes narrative sense to have established an emotional remove within Dany.  She used to spout off about what she thought and felt a lot, and what did it get her?  Jorah made a small pass at her, but for anyone who has never had that happen, oh god it's horrible when someone you see as a dad-figure thinks things are going there.  

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure being on the rejected side of things would suck too, but being on the "What? No!!! The hell?  You're like a family member to me, like a dad! Jebus, there aren't enough showers in the world.  You were my friend all this time because you just want to bone? Yikes."  side actually can feel like a massive betrayal of trust, and can make someone super leery of emotionally intimate friendship.  

One of her maids viciously betrayed her with XXD (or whatever the hell big Qarth man's name was) and on that subject, she couldn't even trust the guy who basically declared, "Yeah, we will get married, no romance here, but let us join forces" to be telling the truth because he appeared to be candidly telling her the truth, but his house of treasures contained crickets.  Also? Sold her out and had her men murdered. 

Her other maid, the good one who was loyal, ended up murdered by the betrayer's actions.  When Dany tried to compassionately reach out to the witch, she didn't realize that the witch saw her not as "Oh my savior, thank you kind woman!" but rather,  "Oh it's going down now, Blondie."  

So the story has actually pretty clearly laid out the reasons why Dany never talks to anyone any longer.  Her new handmaid and assistant? Yeah, that ended splendidly for the last maids she cared about.  If I was Dany, every time an opportunity to talk to Barristan arose, there'd be the hideous awkwardness of the situation with Jorah and never wanting a repeat of that to hold her back.  Grey Worm would seem the natural, safe bet, but he does have romantic feelings, just not ones he can truly act upon and they are towards someone else.  Plus, Dany learned the hard way what happens when you have the power and care about people, other people will hurt them as a punishment or ploy.  

All that to say that it might be good if she has a thing with Daario, because it might be her opportunity to talk openly with someone for the first time in two seasons.  It seems like the only people she might risk being emotionally intimate with are the people she might risk being physically intimate with and we're watching her dance around that need for distance from all. 

In King's Landing all the most revealing conversations have taken place between people either in the same boat in terms of circumstance, or the same rank, or the fame family.  

Social status means everything in this world, but it is a very distancing thing.  Since the death of Drago, Dany hasn't really had an intimate friend where it didn't end up going spectacularly pearh-shaped for her.  I don't think the story made her stop talking in order to make her a superhero action figure with boobs, but because it actually makes story sense. 

Edited April 18, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Snowblack]

I've started to wonder whether Danaerys will re-evaluate her need to "take what is hers."  As someone mentioned, there are no slaves to free in Westeros, and her role as the Breaker of Chains seems to be what is giving meaning to her life right now.  I wonder whether we will see an evolution in thought on her part.  Up until now, she's been very much like Stannis.  Someone told her she is entitled to sit on the iron throne, so it's been her overriding mission to sit on it ever since the death of her brother.  (When in fact she has absolutely no claim to the throne because she has ovaries.)  But that seems like a shallow goal in light of the things she has achieved and can achieve.  Outside of this story she's been fed about her entitlement, why does she even want to go there when she could set her sights on much more worthy goals?  Of course, it doesn't help that he closest advisors are Westerosi, but still.  Why not unite the "free" cities or work to restore what remains of Old Valyria?  Valyria is her true birthright, after all.

 

All that being said, it's obvious that Danaerys' dragons have some role to play in defeating the White Walkers, so we know her attention will be diverted westward eventually.  But I would love to see an evolution where she returns to Westeros to help defeat the White Walkers rather than to reconquer what she believes she is entitled to.  And maybe that warlock tower scene in the deserted throne room with the snow falling around the Iron Throne is a foreshadowing that what she thought she wanted isn't so valuable after all.

[izabella]

Why not unite the "free" cities or work to restore what remains of Old Valyria?  Valyria is her true birthright, after all.

 

Excellent question!  I've wondered why she hasn't asked much about Valyria, or in which direction it lies, or whether she could go there and check it out.  I don't know if it's a ruin, or what, but I would have thought she'd have more curiosity about it.  Even if just to wonder if there are more dragon eggs there somewhere.

[abelard]

This is super-shallow, but I'll say it anyway:

 

Watching the last episode, I asked aloud: "How does Dany walk around in the blazing hot sun all the time and keep her skin milky white like that?"  Then I answered my own question: "Because she. doesn't. burn."

 

 

[stillshimpy]

Yeah, she has some genetic teflon coating or something of that nature, apparently.  When Olenna talked about it being all the rage to marry a Targaryen she referred to seeing his "pretty ferret face and ridiculous silver hair."  

 

 

 

Someone told her she is entitled to sit on the iron throne, so it's been her overriding mission to sit on it ever since the death of her brother.  (When in fact she has absolutely no claim to the throne because she has ovaries.)

 

I think it's almost the opposite of that, Snowblack, Dany seemed determined because no one was telling her she was entitled to sit on the Iron Throne.  Then she, herself, discovered that she was The Dragon, despite having ovaries.  So I think her fixation on the throne actually has to do with being told how worthless she was due to having ovaries and was only good as breeding stock.  Or worse.  The actor who played Viserys managed to imbue the character with something resembling a sympathetic portrayal with his ridiculous, pompous, over-inflated sense-of-self line delivery....because Lloyd's line delivery was seemingly designed to hit the absurdly grandiose register.  Plus, everyone around him greeted his puffed up pronouncements like they were ravings from a cartoon-character-of-a-person.  

 

But that doesn't negate the stuff he said to Dany.  No one else might have taken Viserys seriously, but it took Dany a bit to realize he was full-of-it and that she was the real deal.  That must have been her childhood.  I think Dany's march to free the slaves is actually because she feels an affinity with people made powerless, primarily by men, and realizing that they have it within them to choose freedom, just as she did.  

 

She's had to assert her rights to disbelievers all along and even someone like Jorah, even after she hatched dragons and revealed that she is a fireproof bad-ass , has been known to suggest that she give up the march to the Seven Kingdoms, retire in the land of sun and fruit and just live it up.  

 

But I think Dany will continue to the Seven Kingdoms and I don't think there's any real chance of being permanently waylaid by her cause.  Her ultimate cause is to kick the world that told her she was worthless, that produced Viserys and every other dude who has told her she doesn't matter, firmly in the chops.  I don't think she'll stop until such time as she gets to the (snow covered in her vision) Iron Throne.  

 

I think she believes it is her destiny, but if Buffy taught me anything it is that "I have a destiny!" is really also code for "Which means my life will suck with the power of a squadron of Hoovers as I fulfill it."  

Edited May 2, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Snowblack]

Excellent analysis, stillshimpy.  I'm not sure that we're in total disagreement.  I agree that she was treated as property by her brother, and that she never thought to have any measure of power for herself until well after her marriage to Drogo.  But I think after Viserys' death, and especially after Drogo's, she got the idea that she belongs on the Iron Throne.  I assumed it was her elder sibling's death that sparked it, but I like the argument that it was her realization that she is the last dragon (whatever that means).  All that ranting in Qarth about taking what is hers with fire and blood demonstrates her emerging feeling of entitlement to the throne.  I don't think it is something that would ever have occurred to her until she was on her own and began to learn that she doesn't have to be powerless and listening to Jorah far too much.  I think that certainly since the second season the sense of entitlement is there, without any rational basis for it. 

 

My view of Jorah's role is different from yours.  I don't see him as discouraging her at all, especially during their time in Qarth.  That's when he started speaking of her as being a queen rather than a khaleesi.  To me, that means the queen of Westeros.  Barristan Selmy has encouraged her as well.  That spiel he gave when they first met fed into her ideas about who she is and what she should be doing.  Admittedly, they're not pushing her to rush across the sea to Westeros (thankfully), but I don't recall any discouragement from that ultimate goal either.  And at this point, even if they did decide to discourage her, it's too late.  She no longer accepts their counsel as uncritically as she once did. 

[WhiteStumbler]

SO cool that her story is starting to worry the Small Council.

Titles, titles...

Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, the Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons.

Returner of Library Books, Teller of Puns, Recycling Goddess, Volunteer at Kitchens of Soup, and Capitalizer of Every Other Word.

I hope the Unsullied like BBQ goat. I have a feeling a lot of goatherds are going to be all over Dany's "3x the value" offer on goat carcasses.

[Pallas]

Returner of Library Books.  Wonderful.  And, the Meerene goatherds torching their flocks for the insurance money.  Dany really needs to set up a Queen's Dragonpark. 

[WhiteStumbler]

stillshimpy: All that to say that it might be good if she has a thing with Daario, because it might be her opportunity to talk openly with someone for the first time in two seasons.

A nice spitball from last season that played out as you predicted. And his brilliant advice? Get your dragons back and open the fighting pits. <sigh>

 

All of Dany's advisers before Mereen were military advisers (Jorah, Barristan, Grey Worm, and Darrio the Whistler), so I get why she could be in need of more strategic and political advisers such as Tyrion and Varys. And A Show is showing them actually talking about a goal and moving towards that goal in the next episode (unlike Stannis, who spent nearly an entire season with his thumb up his... dragonhole after being very 'to the Wall! Let's go!! That is where the true war is!!!'), so I am accepting of the fact that they may both arrive in Mereen this season (gasp!).

 

HOWEVER, why in the world is this not likely to result in both Varys and Tyrion dead? Why would the Last Dragon allow T&V to live, let alone accept their counsel? One is the son of the man whose henchman murdered the Targaryen babes at the sack of KL, and the other was the spymaster to the man whose lifelong motto was Good Targ = Dead Targ, and who dispatched a batch of poison wine to kill her -- shouldn't they both end up as dragon kibble?

 

I suppose Tyrion could claim to have killed his father, but that could just as easily make Dany less trusting of him. Varys has the Illyrio card to play, but I don't know that being friends with Illyrio the Wedding Planner would cancel out 'tried to have me poisoned.'

 

If Dany was that unforgiving of Jorah's past misdeeds, why would she accept these two?

[Anothermi]

Forgot to mention that Dany is looking older and wiser now. She's learned that showing is better than telling... or loudly declaiming as was her former habit. Still naked and strong - but without her dragons. The next-gen seem to be coming into their own!