Primetimer July 8, 2016 Share July 8, 2016 In its day, Friends may have moved the needle on queer issues, society-wise, but looking back on it now is cringier than Janice's voice. View the full article Link to comment
Save Yourself July 8, 2016 Share July 8, 2016 (edited) I'm 43 so was right there in the Friends craze and I STILL watch it - it's repeated here at 6.30pm every night so I watch it as something I don't have to think about while I eat - then I start my 'serious watching' of the evening. :) I do notice the gay thing, it really does stand out and what is scary is it was progressive for those times. The worst was always with Chandler's Dad and transgender/transvestites/drag queens are all treated badly on the early years of SVU as well. In Friends defence, as much as there was joking about the lesbian wedding the fact that they did have a same-sex wedding on TV was a big deal and all the characters were very supportive, involved with the wedding and cried at the ceremony. I really loved when Ross was so angry about Carol's parents not going so he walked her down the aisle himself. And I actually thought the Phoebe bit was pretty accurate! I can totally imagine an elderly person saying 'now I've seen everything' and don't think that necessarily has negative connotations. If everyone thought that same sex marriage was 'normal' we wouldn't be having so much damn trouble getting it legalised in this country (Australia). I liked the one with Phoebe's ice skating husband because it was really about turning the stereotypes on their head. I thought it was clever, especially when he was talking about experimenting with being straight in college and 'always having known'. With the people at work thinking Chandler was gay, I thought that he was more curious as to why people thought that? I thought he was worried it meant that women were dismissing him because they thought he was gay. At the end he was offended but because the office staff didn't think he was hot enough for the best looking gay guy at work - it was more ego. Actually thinking about the relationship with Carol and Susan, it reminds of all the talk about the dead lesbian trope lately. These two did have a happy ending so it shows how well it can be done, it would be nice if they could have another same sex female couple in one of today's popular shows but one that doesn't generally have a lot of characters regular meeting early deaths! Edited July 8, 2016 by Save Yourself 1 Link to comment
ClareWalks July 8, 2016 Share July 8, 2016 I really appreciated Carol and Susan's relationship because they were so NORMAL. Especially in the universe of this ridiculous show full of ridiculous people. Everyone else was totally agog by "zermagerd lesbians getting married" and they just...were. They just existed as themselves, and didn't even really respond to the incredulity. It's almost like they were symbols and conduits for explaining to America how ridiculous homophobia is. (At least, that's how I have to think about it when watching it now, to avoid getting annoyed.) 4 Link to comment
starri July 8, 2016 Share July 8, 2016 I remember reading an interview with the creators a long, long time ago (this was probably during the show's second or third season), where they kind of implied that Chandler was originally supposed to be gay, but that Matthew Perry wouldn't play him that way. Link to comment
MisterGlass July 8, 2016 Share July 8, 2016 This reminds me of an interview on NPR with an author that researched humor. It touches on the idea that humor has a short shelf life because of social progress, and that it's been that way for a long time. 3 Link to comment
Angela Hamilton July 8, 2016 Share July 8, 2016 This reminds me of an interview on NPR with an author that researched humor. It touches on the idea that humor has a short shelf life because of social progress, and that it's been that way for a long time. That is interesting! Seems so common-sense, too, now I think about it. Link to comment
Ikki July 8, 2016 Share July 8, 2016 I'm a good deal younger than most people who watched friends during it's run (as in, it premiered the day before I was born), but I did watch it when it was new (more so the later seasons, of course). I continue to watch episodes now in part because it's just so familiar to me, but it definitely has parts that are now uncomfortable. The stuff around Chandler's father is awful, and especially as the show went on, the homophobic gay jokes with Chandler got meaner and less funny.That said, this show still manages to hold a special place in my queer heart for being the reason I can't remember a time when I wasn't familiar with the terms gay and lesbian. (In contrast, I remember learning the term bisexual when I was nine and saw the movie Dodgeball, which also wasn't great representation.) 2 Link to comment
pomme de terre July 10, 2016 Share July 10, 2016 One other thing that's really jarring is how cavalier and even mean Susan and Carol are about Ross's post-divorce heartbreak and particularly his role in raising Ben. Carol cheated on Ross and always acted like that was totally fine because it was a part of her self-discovery. There's an assumption that Susan and Carol will be the primary parent and Ross will be allowed to "be involved." They refer to him Bobo the Sperm Guy, ouch. The ep where Ben is born gives it some dimension -- Susan is lashing out because her parental role is undefined -- but I always thought that was a strange note. Link to comment
Save Yourself July 11, 2016 Share July 11, 2016 13 hours ago, pomme de terre said: One other thing that's really jarring is how cavalier and even mean Susan and Carol are about Ross's post-divorce heartbreak and particularly his role in raising Ben. Carol cheated on Ross and always acted like that was totally fine because it was a part of her self-discovery. There's an assumption that Susan and Carol will be the primary parent and Ross will be allowed to "be involved." They refer to him Bobo the Sperm Guy, ouch. The ep where Ben is born gives it some dimension -- Susan is lashing out because her parental role is undefined -- but I always thought that was a strange note. Oh god, that always pissed me RIGHT off! As far as I was concerned, it wasn't Susan's baby, it wasn't like she and Carol had planned to have a child together and then had taken all the steps to do so, they just took advantage of the situation. Everytime Ross tried to assert himself as the father in anyway they'd make out it was because he was being homophobic but no, it was because they completely stripped him of his parental rights! It was all just what they felt like 'letting' him do. Even with naming the baby they didn't want to include him and then Susan wanted her last name to be used but not Ross'?! Ugh. I thought she was awful the way she treated Ross from day one, as if he had no reason to be upset after the wife he loved cheated on him and left him. Carol should have told Susan to be much kinder, he could have made things so difficult for them. 1 Link to comment
helenamonster July 11, 2016 Share July 11, 2016 While there are definitely aspects of Friends that are cringeworthy in hindsight on this topic (Chandler's father, especially), I don't think every single "gay joke" is necessarily homophobic. A couple examples: The "Yeah, you have homosexual hair" line seems more like commentary on the absurd idea that someone's hair is what makes them gay. Rachel's "Carol...Lesbian?" seems like it's poking fun at Rachel. She's known Carol for how long and she can't bother to learn anything else about her besides the fact that she's a lesbian? Overall, yeah, Friends is not going to age well in this regard, but I think some of these are reaching. 1 Link to comment
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