Criminal Minds Relationships

[amensisterfriend]

You know I'm with you on this one, and my Archive page is proof of it. (Go there. Go there now.)

 

Hee! You're going to provide all of my weekend reading, my friend :) 

 

 

 

They don't have as many obvious disparities as Elle and Spencer, but I think they "get" each other too, just in a separate way.

 

Absolutely! I actually think it's obnoxiously age-ist of me for not ever considering this pairing earlier, because objectively I think Reid and Alex have more commonality and natural connection than any other team members and would probably be very happy. And age differences tend not to bother me too much as long as both parties are consenting adults...see my aforementioned fondness for Rossi/Emily :) I guess the show just gave me the impression from the outset that Alex felt more...if not outright motherly, than aunt-ish or older-sister-ish towards Reid, so I never really thought of them in a romantic light. 

 

 

 

I'm a mild shipper of Rossi and Garcia and Emily and Rossi. I think there's a way where David would be a calming influence on Penelope, make her less likely to spin out over little things, even if, again, the age difference might be a factor.

 

So intriguing! I think I like Rossi too much to sic Penelope on him, but now that you mention it I could see that as a potentially interesting and amusing crack ship. Which means I'll probably never NOT see it now, so thanks ;) I think I went through a stage where I wanted to write a lighter and humorous take on Hotch/Garcia or Gideon/Garcia...oh, dear, did I just admit that on a public forum?!

 

Emily and JJ are actually both pretty hard to pair up with prospective partners---and, presumably, for me to write for---since both characters are kind of underwritten and/or all over the place IMO. But I do like Emily/Rossi for reasons touched on in my last post, and I'm glad you're not too horrified by my JJ/Hotch idea! I know that a ton of people ship Hotch/Prentiss, but for some reason I see it as a rather grim, intense-in-the-wrong-sort-of-ways pairing. And I never saw even an iota of sexual/romantic chemistry between Reid and Prentis, though I know that's a popular one as well. I can't see Reid/Prentiss as a romantic couple any more than I see JJ/Reid as a couple, albeit for slightly different reasons.

 

Thanks for humoring me---reading your responses was a lot of fun!  

Edited July 3, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Droogie]

I always loved the idea of Reid and Prentiss, and I enjoy a lot of fanfiction geared toward them. I understand that others may not see it, but for me, it works. I think "Minimal Loss," plus knowing about their close offscreen friendship, made this one my OTP (I only recently learned what OTP means, and this is my first time using it in a sentence. :-)

I never considered Hotch and JJ. I have to think on it. Maybe it's just because I don't care for JJ and I loooooove, Hotch, but right now, I'm not seeing it.

[amensisterfriend]

I always loved the idea of Reid and Prentiss, and I enjoy a lot of fanfiction geared toward them. I understand that others may not see it, but for me, it works. I think "Minimal Loss," plus knowing about their close offscreen friendship, made this one my OTP (I only recently learned what OTP means, and this is my first time using it in a sentence. :-)

 

Congratulations on your first OTP usage! I'm proud to share this moment with a fellow CM fan :) 

 

I really hope you weren't offended by my meh-ness on Reid/Prentiss---chemistry and compatibility and all that are just incredibly subjective, especially on a show like CM where the characters and their relationships are often left to each viewer's imagination. That's part of what makes it fun and maddening at the same time, right?!  

 

I can see why Emily and Reid might definitely have more in common than, say, Reid/JJ, but I'd love to hear your take on what about them works for you. And remember that as someone who's fond of obscure potential pairings like Emily/Rossi, Elle/Reid and even Hotch/JJ (not to mention a few random would-be couples on the other shows I watch), I'll never mock or judge :) 

[Droogie]

Oh, no, not offended, at all. Like I said, I think fanfiction and their offscreen relationship may have colored my opinion. I really liked when Reid called her and asked her to see the film with him, and she said, "Thanks for being you," (contrast that with JJ, who said, "Stop being you." <---Gah! I'm like a dog with a bone! ANYWAY.) -- I thought that was just very sweet. One could say it had a familial tone, but I could see Reid being attracted to an older woman and Prentiss being attracted to his naïve charm. In my hand waving, she has to make the first move but then he would be all over it.

It could also be that Reid is my absolute fave everything and Prentiss was my fave girl profiler.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Droogie

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Absolutely! I actually think it's obnoxiously age-ist of me for not ever considering this pairing earlier, because objectively I think Reid and Alex have more commonality and natural connection than any other team members and would probably be very happy. And age differences tend not to bother me too much as long as both parties are consenting adults...see my aforementioned fondness for Rossi/Emily :) I guess the show just gave me the impression from the outset that Alex felt more...if not outright motherly, than aunt-ish or older-sister-ish towards Reid, so I never really thought of them in a romantic light.

 

Admittedly, Spencer is a runner-up when it comes to Alex, but not by much. Somehow I made up my mind that something other than professional tension hung in the air between her and Strauss, (talk about dark horses!) with only that two-minute conversation in The Silencer as evidence and I'm not even one of those people who sees HoYay everywhere they look on TV.

 

So intriguing! I think I like Rossi too much to sic Penelope on him, but now that you mention it I could see that as a potentially interesting and amusing crack ship. Which means I'll probably never NOT see it now, so thanks ;)

 

Then my work is done. XD

[amensisterfriend]

Here's a ship-related question for you guys: If you had to ship Emily with someone (either a fellow BAU team member or someone else we just met in passing!), who would it be and why?! I love Paget Brewster and therefore generally loved Emily by extension, but the role is so underwritten/inconsistently written at times that it's hard for me to get a firm enough grasp on her character to know the kind of person she'd mesh with best...I guess it's a matter of which version of Emily we pick and how we fanwank her :)

[ForeverAlone]

While I could see Emily and Morgan paired up, if I had to choose, I'd probably choose Emily and Reid. I always loved their dynamic together from the beginning. I think they had a lot in common, particularly the nerdy geek girl she was when she first showed up. I LOVED them during "Minimal Loss". They obviously cared for each other a great deal, and I think Emily always treated Reid with respect, and he usually treated her with respect (when he wasn't jonesing for Dialuid). I also liked their experienced older woman/inexperienced younger man dynamic. I think they would have been good together. 

[Old Dog]

I struggle to envisage Emily with anyone in the BAU. I loved her relationship with Reid but it came over more as big sister/little brother to me. However, if pushed into a corner I could see her with Rossi despite the age difference. They had a similar kind of irreverence and she had some great scenes with him - like in Demonology when she confessed about the abortion.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Here's a ship-related question for you guys: If you had to ship Emily with someone (either a fellow BAU team member or someone else we just met in passing!), who would it be and why?!

 

You mean Viper isn't the obvious choice?

 

Okay, okay, stop throwing things at me.

 

If I squint, I could sort of see her with Hotch. They're both serious-minded and can get pretty intense, but I'm not sure they would make a good kind of intensity together. And while Emily did tell JJ that she'd considered having kids, being a stepmother to nearly eleven year old Jack was probably not what she had in mind.  So Hotch would be a choice, but a cautious one.

 

Less cautiously, it'd be Rossi. As Old Dog says, he was the one she confided in about the abortion, and he told her when he thought Carolyn possiby wanted to get back together with him. Also, David has a playfulness to him that Aaron mostly doesn't, and I think that would soften Emily's intensity a bit.

[SparedTurkey]

 

Here's a ship-related question for you guys: If you had to ship Emily with someone (either a fellow BAU team member or someone else we just met in passing!), who would it be and why?!

 

Jordan Todd preferably. They seemed to like eachother without reservation and are both intelligent. I thought they may have been going there at the time but it got walked back. Pity.

 

Or Reid. At least Prentiss was always nice and respectful towards him - even when teasing (E.g. the 'fable' story bit vs.JJ's reactions to Reid) . And vice-versa.

Edited August 15, 2015 by SparedTurkey

[amensisterfriend]

You mean Viper isn't the obvious choice?

 

Have you been reading my fanfic again? (Kidding, kidding...!) 

 

Jordan Todd preferably. They seemed to like eachother without reservation and are both intelligent. I thought they may have been going there at the time but it got walked back. Pity.

 

Ha---yeah, I always find it amusing that Emily and Jordan seem to have a closer, more natural rapport in a mere few episodes than Emily and JJ seem to have EVER despite the show telling me they're supposed to be very close. I didn't see it as romantic/sexual, but I can totally see how others would! 

 

Or Reid. At least Prentiss was always nice and respectful towards him - even when teasing (E.g. the 'fable' story bit vs.JJ's reactions to Reid) . And vice-versa.

 

I agree, but I think it's more about the different actresses' facial expressions and line deliveries. Emily is also written as saying some stuff that could be construed as insulting or at least condescending if expressed in a certain way, but for me Paget makes those kind of comments sound playful and affectionate while certain other actresses...don't. 

 

I would love to ship Emily/Reid, but I can never bring myself to see them as more than purely platonic for some reason. Even that aforementioned teasing comes off as really sibling like to me rather than flirtatious banter. Chemistry is obviously subjective, though---I see why people would see it between Emily and Reid, but for some reason it just isn't there for me. And that was even before I decided that Elle and Reid are destined to be together in my own weird little head canon :)  

 

If I squint, I could sort of see her with Hotch. They're both serious-minded and can get pretty intense, but I'm not sure they would make a good kind of intensity together. And while Emily did tell JJ that she'd considered having kids, being a stepmother to nearly eleven year old Jack was probably not what she had in mind.  So Hotch would be a choice, but a cautious one.

 

You perfectly nailed what I consider Emily's most salient quality: her intensity. The way she speaks, the facial expressions, and even her body language all radiate intensity to me no matter how the writers decide to write for her (or, as is often the case, NOT write for her!) in any given episode. Even when she lets loose it's in kind of in an extreme, intense way, like 'sinning to win' and going overboard in Vegas. And I also agree wholeheartedly that for some reason her intensity and Hotch's, while somewhat different (she's certainly more expressive and blunt and animated than he is), just don't seem like a really compatible and complementary fit for me. I tend to love couples who have a lot in common, but I always feel like Hotch and Emily both need people who would lighten that intensity a bit rather than augment it. (And this relates to why I'm the one CM fan on the planet who can totally see Hotch with someone like Beth, but I'll shut myself up about that!) 

 

However, if pushed into a corner I could see her with Rossi despite the age difference. They had a similar kind of irreverence and she had some great scenes with him - like in Demonology when she confessed about the abortion.

 

Then consider me pushing you into a corner so that I have company ;) I always come back to seeing her with Rossi even if I don't particularly want to (because, ideally, I like to ship couples with less of an age difference and who have more shippery interactions!) I see them as a great blend of similarities and differences. They're both sarcastic, a little bit jaded yet still hopeful enough to try and believe in happiness when it comes down to it, difficult pasts that cause them both a bit of regret, passionate, and apt to break the rules if they deem it necessary. Yet Rossi could help Emily relax and care a little less while she could help him care a little more, at least about the stuff that matters. She's more academic while he's more instinctive/intuitive in some ways. He can be somewhat benignly vain while she (this may be my fanwanking!) can sometimes be a little endearingly insecure. Anyway, I could see them being a pretty great couple and starting their own PI firm now that Rossi is a bit too old for the FBI...maybe Elle and Reid can join them :) 

 

(Random note here sparked by my above rambling: it's always weird to me that Rossi is a writer. I think of Gideon as much more the writer type. He would love to sit there analyzing the theories behind crimes and pontificating on his own experiences with it, right?! Rossi is obviously very bright, but more a man of instinct and action. Even a couple of unsubs point out that he's not traditionally intellectual/academic...he seems like he'd barely have the patience to read many books on crime, let alone write them! He learns through experience rather than books. I guess the writers just grasped at the 'bestselling author' thing to explain why he was so 'famous' and what he'd been doing since leaving the FBI the first time)  

[Droogie]

Maybe not so much on the show. But in fanfiction, I definitely love Reid paired with Emily. Very early on in my FF-reading. I stumbled across MadLori's and blythechild's fics with this pairing, and now I can't "unsee" it. These writers have their voices nailed and it really, really works for me.

CobaltStargazer writes amazing Reid and Elle, though, and in her stories, I love the pairing.

I readily envision Reid with an older woman, so that helps.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I tend to love couples who have a lot in common, but I always feel like Hotch and Emily both need people who would lighten that intensity a bit rather than augment it. (And this relates to why I'm the one CM fan on the planet who can totally see Hotch with someone like Beth, but I'll shut myself up about that!)

 

FWIW, I don't think Hotch and Beth were completely ill-suited. Considering the way things with Haley ended - first with divorce papers and then with George Foyet taking her life - someone light-hearted and giggly like Beth could have been exactly what Aaron needed to take some of the Sturm Und Drang out of his life, relieve some of that encroaching dourness. The problem was more with the writing, not with the character herself.

 

As for Elle and Reid, he was the only one who tried to reach out to her after Garner nearly killed her, and then the only one who really expressed regret for not trying harder when she shot William Lee. And as has been said re Paget, there was just something about Lola's acting that conveyed that while there could be kidding around sometimes, Elle could also be supportive and encouraging. I'm always reminded of the time she told him that the reason he didn't date was because he'd never asked anyone out, and how much Spencer could use that kind of encouragement now.

[Droogie]

I loved how Elle interacted with Reid. She was always kind and understanding. When he failed his firearm qualification, she was the first (and only) to suggest that he might be feeling down about it and wanted to protect him from teasing. And after the train with Bryar, she readily acknowledged his heroism. Elle was great. Even when he came to her room to talk and see how she was doing, and she just knew he couldn't really help, she was gracious,

[smoker]

I've never seen Emily and Hotch as a couple, but as a good friends, I like a lot their dinamic in season 2 and the begining of the third. Moreover, I'd loved it if writers had brought something of that in season 7, not a big thing, just a little something about how Gideon and Hotch suspected of a ulterior motive behind Emily's choice of the BAU at the time.

 

Anyway, I'm always whining because of the pathetic storyline they delivered for Sean Hotchner, the missed opportunity to dig in Hotch's past. Well, I feel the same with Emily's mom, and don't forget Hotch did a escort job for her. I think there was a great chance there to explore Emily's past, not only Honor among thieves is a ridiculous episode, I remember being so disappointed with the casting and the writing for the character... I don't know if some of you have seen Homeland season 4, no spoilers or anything, but there is a character that season, a female ambassador who is everything I've ever dreamed for Emily's mom, a clever, charismatic and capable woman and not that dull stereotype they use in the show.

Edited August 16, 2015 by smoker

[SparedTurkey]

 

I agree, but I think it's more about the different actresses' facial expressions and line deliveries. Emily is also written as saying some stuff that could be construed as insulting or at least condescending if expressed in a certain way, but for me Paget makes those kind of comments sound playful and affectionate while certain other actresses...don't.

 

I would love to ship Emily/Reid, but I can never bring myself to see them as more than purely platonic for some reason. Even that aforementioned teasing comes off as really sibling like to me rather than flirtatious banter. Chemistry is obviously subjective, though---I see why people would see it between Emily and Reid, but for some reason it just isn't there for me. And that was even before I decided that Elle and Reid are destined to be together in my own weird little head canon :)

 

Oh I think so 100%. Tone etc make a huge difference. In saying that, I don't think the banter they had was flirting or came close to it. And I think they would have been better portrayed as close friends - moreso than lumping the girls together just cause. But because of their chemistry - whatever someone wants to read into it - that was why I would put them together if I had to choose.

 

I just wouldn't go with Emily/Hotch or Emily/Rossi because mainly of the the whole being the boss/superior thing. While it isn't a huge thing, and certainly not illegal, I don't see any of them going for it, (except perhaps Rossi on account of his history) because of the impropriety.

[smoker]

FWIW, I don't think Hotch and Beth were completely ill-suited. Considering the way things with Haley ended - first with divorce papers and then with George Foyet taking her life - someone light-hearted and giggly like Beth could have been exactly what Aaron needed to take some of the Sturm Und Drang out of his life, relieve some of that encroaching dourness. The problem was more with the writing, not with the character herself.

 

As for Elle and Reid, he was the only one who tried to reach out to her after Garner nearly killed her, and then the only one who really expressed regret for not trying harder when she shot William Lee. And as has been said re Paget, there was just something about Lola's acting that conveyed that while there could be kidding around sometimes, Elle could also be supportive and encouraging. I'm always reminded of the time she told him that the reason he didn't date was because he'd never asked anyone out, and how much Spencer could use that kind of encouragement now.

 

Agree, I didn't like Beth, I'm not going to lie, but I think a better writing or a different angle for some situations would have made a difference.

 

 

I loved how Elle interacted with Reid. She was always kind and understanding. When he failed his firearm qualification, she was the first (and only) to suggest that he might be feeling down about it and wanted to protect him from teasing. And after the train with Bryar, she readily acknowledged his heroism. Elle was great. Even when he came to her room to talk and see how she was doing, and she just knew he couldn't really help, she was gracious,

 

I love Elle and Reid, and I did like Elle very much. She was the first one being not only gravely hurt but attacked by an unsub, in her home (did you remembered her after Foyet attack to Hotch?, I did) and they never pay her any special attention, Reid and Hotch were the ones who looked more affected but still nothing close to Prentiss and JJ. Wait a minute, they didn't pay that kind of attention to Reid after he was abducted...

Edited August 16, 2015 by smoker

[Droogie]

I love Elle and Reid, and I did like Elle very much. She was the first one being not only gravely hurt but attacked by an unsub, in her home (did you remembered her after Foyet attack to Hotch?, I did) and they never pay her any special attention, Reid and Hotch were the ones who looked more affected but still nothing close to Prentiss and JJ. Wait a minute, they didn't pay that kind of attention to Reid after he was abducted...

I I would have loved for Hotch to address somehow, after Foyet's attack, that he understood how Elle felt. We know now, after Nelson's Sparrow, that they can address past characters, and at some point after Foyet's attack, I would have loved to have seen Hotch acknowledge that he understood Elle better.

As far as not acknowledging Reid's feelings after his abduction, they totally let that ship sail. Gideon's pathetic acknowledgement in the jazz club in New Orleans was supposed to suffice, I guess. They could've explored that beautifully without letting it detract from subsequent CM episodes, but they chose not to do so.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

As far as not acknowledging Reid's feelings after his abduction, they totally let that ship sail. Gideon's pathetic acknowledgement in the jazz club in New Orleans was supposed to suffice, I guess. They could've explored that beautifully without letting it detract from subsequent CM episodes, but they chose not to do so.

 

I think that in his own way, Gideon tried to help Reid, but much like during Aftermath with Elle, he couldn't get out of his own head long enough to really see what someone else was going through. Granted, he wasn't directly responsible for Reid's abduction the way he was with Elle getting shot, but he also more or less cuts Spencer off during The Popular Kids when Reid is trying to tell him about his nightmares. Like, way to be sensitive, Jason.

[SparedTurkey]

 

I think that in his own way, Gideon tried to help Reid

I never saw Gideon do a single thing to help Reid, aside from a vague and ridiculous chat in a jazz club. Emily did more than anyone and she'd only been on the team a few months.

 

Mind you, I never bought into the close Gideon/Reid relationship and pretty much see it as one-sided.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I never saw Gideon do a single thing to help Reid, aside from a vague and ridiculous chat in a jazz club. Emily did more than anyone and she'd only been on the team a few months.

 

I should have been more specific. Gideon tried to "help" Reid the same way he tried to "help" Elle, by doing the bare minimum. I think he had good intentions, for what little that might be worth, but his actions were severely lacking in both cases.

[zannej]

I think Elle had good chemistry and interactions with Morgan, Reid, and Gideon, and Hotch.

I still remember the banter betwee Elle and Morgan in the first episode. The "show some more leg" line followed by Elle saying it would be to kick his ass or something like that. She and Morgan were on equal terms. She looked up to Hotch and Gideon-- obviously seeing Gideon as a bit of a parental figure in some regards. I loved the scene in The Fisher King when Elle was being detained and Hotch walks in. Elle immediately got an understandably smug look on her face that said "My boss is going to chew you up and spit you out" and Hotch immediately took off his jacket and put it over her-- symbolically and physically shielding / protecting her. I also liked the bit with one of the bombers when Hotch actually admitted to Elle that he was "a bit of a nerd" as a kid. He seemed at ease with her.

 

People have already mentioned how there was a big sister little brother thing going with Reid. Elle was protective of him and cared about his feelings. I still liked the moment when she said it was Reid's idea for her to come along and Reid got a high pitched voice to object. Then Hotch let Reid know that he didn't believe Elle and Elle was annoyed that Reid didn't cover for her. But in "Aftermath", Reid was obviously concerned. I love how he actually went back to look for her when she was alone in the parking garage, realizing she left her purse. It was so sweet how he offered to walk with her to the car to get it. I also liked the bit at the end of "Derailed" when he patted and rubbed her knee before walking away.

 

Unfortunately, AJ and Kirsten did not like Lola. We didn't get to see them interact very much. I don't remember JJ ever being warm toward Elle and I remember Garcia dumping Elle's drink in the trash.

[SparedTurkey]

 

Unfortunately, AJ and Kirsten did not like Lola. We didn't get to see them interact very much. I don't remember JJ ever being warm toward Elle and I remember Garcia dumping Elle's drink in the trash.

 

Really? I have never heard that at all. Just that LG wanted back to NYC. Receipts?

 

For what it is worth - JJ was never that warm to anyone and Garcia chucked the drink cause it was close to the computers, not out of malice.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Unfortunately, AJ and Kirsten did not like Lola. We didn't get to see them interact very much. I don't remember JJ ever being warm toward Elle and I remember Garcia dumping Elle's drink in the trash.

 

I've heard vague way-in-retrospect rumors that Lola didn't particularly get along with Kirsten or AJ, so it kind of makes sense that Elle, as a character, would gravitate towards Hotch and the other guys. And for myself, I could tolerate Coffee-Trashing!Garcia more than I could the current version. But I do wonder if the official story about her departure was entirely true, since in terms of the show the characters wouldn't have had much reason to interact. Garcia being the computer tech and JJ being the media liaison meant generally staying behind while the others went into the field.

[ForeverAlone]

You see that Emily, JJ and Penelope are good work friends on the show, and they are good friends in real life. I think some of that natural friendship and chemistry made its way into the show's writing. Just like I can easily believe Lola was not close to AJ and Kirsten, and that reflected in the lack of personal closeness of Elle with the other women. I think Elle was written as more of a tomboy type who connected more with men than women in general.

[smoker]

Lola leaving so soon was weird
Maybe she got a personal problem suddenly
We'll never know
I think she had a great chemistry with everybody
And JJ and García didn't have the same time and job than now so their interaction as a characters was ok to me, she was part of the team they weren't and to me is the best partner Morgan has ever had

About the tomboy thing, Emily is by far more a tomboy than Elle, being tough and be a tomboy is not the same, Emily always has the same attitude, Elle hasn't

Edited August 16, 2015 by smoker

[katha]

I never saw Gideon do a single thing to help Reid, aside from a vague and ridiculous chat in a jazz club. Emily did more than anyone and she'd only been on the team a few months.

 

Mind you, I never bought into the close Gideon/Reid relationship and pretty much see it as one-sided.

I think Gideon genuinely cared about Reid. The problem is...at the time we meet him he's already rather damaged by the job, and he was probably rather self-involved and stuck in his own head before that as well. So he often can't bring himself to fully engage anymore, to take responsibility for his actions. IMO one clear tonal shift in season two, right at the beginning, is the scene where Gideon talks himself into denial and out of any kind of engagement with the fact that Elle was shot and that him taking a risk with the press conference played a part in that. He's talking and talking and all that time Hotch has this horrified expression on his face. Then goes to clean the blood from Elle's wall. I think at that point Hotch realized he'd have to be the clear leader in the team, Gideon wasn't capable of that anymore. I think Gideon's downward spiral and Gideon leaving had at least as much to do with Hotch becoming the grimmer, harder character he is now as the divorce. And that transformation starts in season two, he takes on an air of sternness and authority that wasn't there in season one. He's a softer character in season one.

 

But one last instance where I do think Gideon goes out of his way to help is "Ashes and Dust". You see his guilt because he knows that he burdens Hotch with the way he often can't engage with things anymore and you see him running around all episode trying to help Hotch because he takes it hard and totally overidentifies with Evan Abby. It's very moving IMO and the episode has great performances by Patinkin and Gibson.

[normasm]

I never saw Gideon do a single thing to help Reid, aside from a vague and ridiculous chat in a jazz club. Emily did more than anyone and she'd only been on the team a few months.

 

Mind you, I never bought into the close Gideon/Reid relationship and pretty much see it as one-sided.

.

Gideon was in the aftermath of a major depressive episode. They have never really said that he had to be hospitalized but I always assumed his being on leave after Adrian Bale implied that he broke down. The ebb and flow of depression after a breakdown can last for years, even forever, so, while I frequently am derisive towards Gideon for not helping Reid and putting Elle in danger, I do realize he was not really 100% after he came back. Probably never was in all the episodes he's depicted in. I think he was inwardly focused when under stress, and when something bad happened as a nearly direct result of his actions (Reid and Elle), he would circle his inner wagons, trying desperately to assure himself he did the right thing when he nearly caused their deaths.

[SparedTurkey]

 

Gideon was in the aftermath of a major depressive episode. They have never really said that he had to be hospitalized but I always assumed his being on leave after Adrian Bale implied that he broke down. The ebb and flow of depression after a breakdown can last for years, even forever, so, while I frequently am derisive towards Gideon for not helping Reid and putting Elle in danger, I do realize he was not really 100% after he came back.

 

I appreciate that, but at the end of the day - if he is not 100% he should not have put himself in place as a mentor and/or boss to Reid. That is bad boss behaviour. If he was not prepared to act, he shouldn't be there. It was bad for him and his relationship to any/all subordinates (and probably Hotch, on a peer level, too). That is selfish and is one of the main reasons I don't buy him either as a great team member or as a positive influence on Reid. I mean - the whole 'Call him Dr Reid because no one would buy him as a legitimate FBI agent' crap - Reid was qualified and being undermined like that was gross.

 

Bottom line, I dislike the implication that the Gideon/Reid relationship was either a)good or b) healthy. And when it is shown up by the show itself, with Emily, then I don't think I am supposed to.

[normasm]

I appreciate that, but at the end of the day - if he is not 100% he should not have put himself in place as a mentor and/or boss to Reid. That is bad boss behaviour. If he was not prepared to act, he shouldn't be there. It was bad for him and his relationship to any/all subordinates (and probably Hotch, on a peer level, too). That is selfish and is one of the main reasons I don't buy him either as a great team member or as a positive influence on Reid.

Yeah, well, a big chunk of depressive behavior includes denial and self-centeredness, one of the main reasons why depressed people often are very ashamed of being, well, depressed. Gideon, when he's thinking clearly, still shows flashes of being brilliant. But, for instance, in Broken Mirror, when he's toying with the caller/kidnapper, everyone on the team looks at least queasy, and Morgan is about to break ranks. The situation goes on to be handled, but almost everyone doubts Gideon during it.

 

And when he does fail, like when he shut down Tobias' site, and when he finds out that breaking Garner's One Rule got Elle shot, he's immediately trying to justify his actions, saying Reid is strong, he'll make it, or Elle will understand. She might have, but, heck, she didn't really understand it wasn't Hotch, it was Gideon that got her shot, and he doesn't take credit.

 

The other scene that resonates about Gideon not being really ready to come back to the BAU (and I think this is all good characterization, mind you, good writing) is in Fisher King 1, where he goes back to his office sulking because the one place he held sacrosanct, the Cabin, has been sullied by the FK. Hotch comes into his office, and is trying to get him to talk, but he just shuts down and says he wants to be alone. For Gideon, it's all about him no matter what's happening, because he is very damaged by the depressive episode, and really, when you think about it, the writers couldn't have imagined a more realistic exit for a depressed character as Mandy gave them when they had to scramble to write Gideon out.

Edited August 18, 2015 by normasm

[katha]

The way he doesn't deal with Elle is also very telling. He knows she has PTSD, he recognizes the symptoms. Yet he says nothing and lets her be used as a decoy though it's clear she's not ready. Morgan and Hotch are also uneasy...but they don't understand. They don't recognize the signs like Gideon does. And then he does nothing again in the aftermath and lets Hotch handle all of that as well.

 

That Elle lashed out at Hotch was also very strong writing IMO. Who else? Gideon? I figure she was in the same boat as Morgan where Gideon was concerned: Yeah, they knew he's brilliant, but they also saw that he's not dependable, that he's erratic and detached. OTOH, you had her going for advice to Hotch, being comfortable around him. It was made clear that she liked him, respected him, trusted him and even somewhat admired him. It made sense that in the throes of PTSD she would feel more betrayed by Hotch, since she was much closer to him. The implication being that she didn't expect any better from Gideon anyway. Of course blaming Hotch was an irrational reaction, but that was the point of her exit storyline. It also set up her last scenes and why they were with Hotch: They were so sad because it's clear that they cared for each other a great deal, but that the events had fostered a rift there and both regretted that but didn't see a way to make things right again.

[SparedTurkey]

 

Yeah, well, a big chunk of depressive behavior includes denial and self-centeredness, one of the main reasons why depressed people often are very ashamed of being, well, depressed. Gideon, when he's thinking clearly, still shows flashes of being brilliant.

 

I am aware of depressive behaviours thanks. And I didn't say anywhere that he wasn't a good profiler - that wasn't my point. But nearly everyone on that team at some point makes a reference to Gideon and how maybe he isn't better. If they did know - then he should not have been put in a high position on the team and shouldn't have held himself out to be the best person to understand Reid. And see also: How he deals with Elle.

 

To be honest, while he may/may not have PTSD, I think he is also one of the most narcissistic characters which, while may be interesting to watch, makes any relationship with that person look incredibly unhealthy and the other person(s) look like doormats.

[JMO]

Gideon is a fascinating character and one that would be incredibly interesting to dissect in his own right, let alone in how he relates to the other characters on the show. While I found him overly, and unnecessarily, dramatic, I respect that the character, and the actor who portrayed him, set the tone for the series .  That tone, for better or worse----and maybe both---- has changed over time.  The show had one personality with a traumatized Gideon at the helm, and another with a traumatized Hotch.  Should Hotch experience any significant degree of recovery from his trauma, I expect we'd see yet another iteration. 

 

As to Reid----------despite the fact that I so often write him with a (my own) version of JJ, I really don't see him in a romantic relationship with any of the characters we've yet seen on screen.  I could be persuaded on Maeve, and I wish we'd had a chance to find out.  I didn't disagree with the decision to have the character die. In fact, I actually thought it was a good dramatic choice.  But I can't help but think how much more dramatic it would have been if we'd seen the relationship evolve even more, before it so abruptly, and tragically, ended. 

 

I do see Reid in relationship with each of the other characters, and would love to see any or all of those connections portrayed as they deepened.  Well, except for Garcia, maybe.  If they had the right actor, I would be over the moon if we could see Reid's relationship with Henry portrayed on screen.  I'd want to see that far more than I'd want to see a romance of any sort.  But that's me.

Edited August 18, 2015 by JustMyOpinion

[Cobalt Stargazer]

The way he doesn't deal with Elle is also very telling. He knows she has PTSD, he recognizes the symptoms. Yet he says nothing and lets her be used as a decoy though it's clear she's not ready. Morgan and Hotch are also uneasy...but they don't understand. They don't recognize the signs like Gideon does. And then he does nothing again in the aftermath and lets Hotch handle all of that as well.

 

That Elle lashed out at Hotch was also very strong writing IMO. Who else? Gideon? I figure she was in the same boat as Morgan where Gideon was concerned: Yeah, they knew he's brilliant, but they also saw that he's not dependable, that he's erratic and detached. OTOH, you had her going for advice to Hotch, being comfortable around him. It was made clear that she liked him, respected him, trusted him and even somewhat admired him. It made sense that in the throes of PTSD she would feel more betrayed by Hotch, since she was much closer to him. The implication being that she didn't expect any better from Gideon anyway. Of course blaming Hotch was an irrational reaction, but that was the point of her exit storyline. It also set up her last scenes and why they were with Hotch: They were so sad because it's clear that they cared for each other a great deal, but that the events had fostered a rift there and both regretted that but didn't see a way to make things right again.

 

What's worth noting is that when Hotch follows Elle to her father's grave, where he asks her if she's confessing her sins, she isn't wrong when she says that when she needed the team, they weren't there for her. Not just when Garner broke into her house and nearly took her life, but later when she was trying to cope with what had happened to her. I suppose it could sound like whining, but at the same time she was right - she needed help, and except for Reid, who couldn't really help /understand because he had yet to have the misfortune to run across Tobias Hankel, they let her flail around on her own until it was too late. Hotch and Morgan, who watched Gideon fall at least partially apart because of Adrian Bale, apparently didn't see the signs, and she wasn't close enough to JJ or Garcia for them to notice that something was amiss. And Gideon was too much in his own head - or up his own ass, take your pick - to even attempt taking responsibility for a mess he helped to create.

 

As to Reid----------despite the fact that I so often write him with a (my own) version of JJ, I really don't see him in a romantic relationship with any of the characters we've yet seen on screen.  I could be persuaded on Maeve, and I wish we'd had a chance to find out.  I didn't disagree with the decision to have the character die. In fact, I actually thought it was a good dramatic choice.  But I can't help but think how much more dramatic it would have been if we'd seen the relationship evolve even more, before it so abruptly, and tragically, ended. 

 

I do see Reid in relationship with each of the other characters, and would love to see any or all of those connections portrayed as they deepened.  Well, except for Garcia, maybe.  If they had the right actor, I would be over the moon if we could see Reid's relationship with Henry portrayed on screen.  I'd want to see that far more than I'd want to see a romance of any sort.  But that's me.

 

I would be kind of okay with Reid not having an onscreen romance. CM has a sketchy track record with personal stories, and if they can't do them properly I would prefer that they get minimal attention. Conversely, its very glaring to me that Spencer is the only team member who seems to have no life outside of the job. Yes, he has a demanding job, but unless he sits in his apartment staring at the walls when he isn't in the field, what does he do with his time? As I say, I would be all right with him not obviously dating someone, having someone to go home to, or even just hang out with, if it wasn't tied to some ridiculous idea that he's about as interesting/desirable as a used Kleenex.

[Droogie]

I would be kind of okay with Reid not having an onscreen romance. CM has a sketchy track record with personal stories, and if they can't do them properly I would prefer that they get minimal attention. Conversely, its very glaring to me that Spencer is the only team member who seems to have no life outside of the job. Yes, he has a demanding job, but unless he sits in his apartment staring at the walls when he isn't in the field, what does he do with his time? As I say, I would be all right with him not obviously dating someone, having someone to go home to, or even just hang out with, if it wasn't tied to some ridiculous idea that he's about as interesting/desirable as a used Kleenex.

I agree with everything here, except I'm not OK with Reid not having any sort of romance. I think it has been established that he would actually like to have one, and he is the only member of the BAU, as you've stated, to have absolutely nothing outside the job. Why is this OK? Why it is consistently overlooked? Reid's nearly 35 years old on the show. He's beautiful and brilliant. Do they think he is some sort of eunuch? It's ridiculous beyond the realm of the ridiculous they feed us each season. I think the character simply reeks of loneliness.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Droogie

[normasm]

Droogs, I agree with both you and CoStar, but I think I'm with her in that i don't trust the writers to do it right in re Reid's off-work world. I'm hoping, if they "go there," that MGG is guiding them and they listen to him and stir all that together with early canon Reid, and mete it out in small amounts over the whole season. Maybe the thing to do is to have him engaged with teaching, and meet someone that way. As long as it's not too cutesy or OOC.

[smoker]

CM has a sketchy track record with personal stories, and if they can't do them properly I would prefer that they get minimal attention.

AMEN!!

I even would say almost any show on CBS got that condition

[thewhiteowl]

I don't consider this show a CBS soap so I don't need to see or know about the character's personal life unless it impacts the case. I think they have done fairly well with tying those together, when they do it. Other  than that, I just want to see them doing their jobs, actually profiling. That was what made the show interesting to me. YMMV.

[Droogie]

I agree that it's not a soap -- but they've given everyone else something outside the BAU; it's only right that Reid gets a life as well.

[normasm]

Again, I agree with the 2 of you in re too much of the soap opera treatment, but there once was a balance between showing their lives and showing them at work, and I wish the writers would find that again.

[Bookish Jen]

I loved how Elle interacted with Reid. She was always kind and understanding. When he failed his firearm qualification, she was the first (and only) to suggest that he might be feeling down about it and wanted to protect him from teasing. And after the train with Bryar, she readily acknowledged his heroism. Elle was great. Even when he came to her room to talk and see how she was doing, and she just knew he couldn't really help, she was gracious,

Yes, it was when Reid failed his firearm qualification that I began to "see" Elle and Spencer has a viable, romantic couple. And I'll never forget when I first had this vision. It was so clear Reid was disgusted with himself and very frustrated. Morgan decided to be a dick and gave Reid his whistle to "comfort" him. Reid looked up and Elle just had this subtle look of empathy, kindness and warmth on her face. It was as if she was saying, "I totally understand, and I'm in your corner." And believe me, Spencer needed that, not Morgan's condescension. Now on paper, Elle and Spencer wouldn't seem to work. She's all toughness, and Spencer radiates a certain vulnerability. Yet, on the inside, Elle is very vulnerable, and Spencer can have an inner toughness when needed.

 

The next time I saw this bond was in "The Popular Kids." The BAU team were walking up a steep hill, and even with his long legs, Spencer seemed to have trouble. Gideon helped JJ up the hill. Then JJ turned, saw Spencer behind her, but didn't offer him a helping hand. Elle was already up the hill and she extended a helping hand to Spencer. And I swooned. Such a slight gesture, but it packed a wallop.

 

And of course, there is the episode where Spencer joins Elle for a nightcap. By then I was shipping them in my head, thinking "what if?" And of course, I shipped them sleeping together, and Spencer losing his virginity to Elle.

 

So thank goodness I discovered our lovely Cobalt StarGazer's master class Spelle fan fiction. They are delightful and delectable reads.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Bookish Jen

[SparedTurkey]

Personally, I don't ship any of the team together at all - minus Emily and Jordan (if I had to - and that is when pressed). I just think it isn't the best idea to 's*it where you eat' - this show has enough problems with the writing without adding inter-team romantic/sexual relationships into the mix.

 

But also, I find it kind of sad to figure Reid was and/or is still a virgin. I don't think there is any indication of it textually - because in the first season LA episode it seems like he knew what he was doing with that actress with a stalker. I think it is sad that just because it is assumed he it 100% awkward in every single way that it means he isn't getting laid. I'd prefer to think he is getting laid by a number of well-intentioned women and/or men attracted to him because he is Reid.

 

For what it is worth, I think Reid/Elle is very similar to Reid/Emily - in that all parties are smart and mature enough to respect the other person's attributes and commiserate/challenge the other person's issues. Those two - apart from the vigilante and Interpol storylines - would have had me believing that them and Reid could have had lasting, healthy relationships, which is definately unchartered waters for this show.

[ForeverAlone]

But Reid himself said that he has never asked anyone on a date, and he seemed a bit upset that he can't get a date. Even though Matthew himself is very beautiful, I never got that much of an impression that REID is supposed to be beautiful, and the writing really doesn't support that Reid has an active romantic life. The few times the topic has come up, his awkwardness or lack of experience seems to be the driving factor.

[amensisterfriend]

Here's a random question for you guys: What kind of relationship o you think Elle and Rossi would have had? Do you see them clicking, clashing...? (This is assuming the writers hadn't started writing pretty much every single team member as being equally, blandly friendly in exactly the same ways with every other team member, of course---here we can pretend that characters have more distinct relationships, with some naturally closer or more likely to clash than others!)

 

How about Elle and Emily?

 

And which team members do you think would be most comfortable around Reid's mom and react with the most understanding (or least understanding!) to her mental illness?  

[normasm]

Amen, interesting questions. I think Elle and Rossi would totally dig each other, but there probably would be a little friction, just because Elle wouldn't be demure in accepting Rossi's Lothario mannerisms. 

 

I think Elle and Emily would have worked well together, and would be respectful. Maybe even friendly, on Emily's side, at least.

 

We never saw Elle relating to Diana, so I'm not sure if she would have been accepting, but, from her friendship with Reid, I think she would have been empathetic. I don't know of any of them who would have been unsympathetic, but the most empathetic i would think would be Morgan, followed by Hotch. JMO.

[zannej]

I think that Rossi would have liked Elle because she has spunk. Elle respected Gideon and he came off as pretty arrogant. But I think Elle would absolutely have called Rossi on something if she thought he was being sexist or condescending in some way. I could see Elle snapping at Rossi over something and Rossi defending his point. Elle walks away and Rossi would turn to Hotch and say "I like her".

[amensisterfriend]

Awesome answers, guys---as usual! 

 

I could actually see Rossi as the first to sense that Elle and Reid are secretly dating. (Because, yes, in my head canon they eventually get together!) Rossi is actually really intuitive and instinctive IMO, and he's pretty savvy when it comes to matters of the heart. 

 

I agree that Rossi and Elle would be frequently snarky and occasionally even openly confrontational, but it would blow over very quickly and they'd end up liking and respecting each other all the more. 

 

Emily was always written so all over the place as a character (IMO, of course) that it's hard for me to think of what her relationship with Elle would have been like---I always feel like it depends on which version of Emily! But I'd like to think that they'd each respect the other's strength and honesty despite coming from very different backgrounds. 

[Droogie]

Great question, and I agree with everyone's answers.

I think Elle and Rossi would've enjoyed each other's company and would've had some snarky banter. Since we know how much she initially wanted to join the BAU, I think she would've had a lot of respect for him, but would never hesitate to call him out on something.

I too think Morgan would've been the most understanding about Diana Reid, but I think Hotch would've been a close second, if not a tie. Morgan wears his heart on his sleeve a lot and Hotch does not, but I don't think that means he doesn't feel things very deeply. And I think his soft spot for Reid would have played a part.

[zannej]

I could see Hotch liking Diana because she is in a large way responsible for how Reid turned out--and Reid loves her very much. I think Reid's love for her would make Hotch a little fonder of her. I always wanted to see how Hotch reacted to Reid's dad though. I somehow think he would be annoyed. Here was a man who basically threw his wife and kid away and Hotch would have given just about anything to keep his wife and kid if he could do it over again.

[Droogie]

I would love to see Hotch with William Reid. I love a good Hotchalanche. And I think I'd get one.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Droogie