Wie Is De Mol? - General Discussion

[stellavision]

I had gone in predicting Margriet as mole, Marlijn as winner, Chris as runner-up, and Rik as non-finalist. I stand by the first two even though the last two are obviously wrong.

 

Rik taking the jokers from Chris made me 100% sure instead of 99% sure that Margriet is the mole and that they've all figured it out. Chris knew but since the other two also did and had jokers, that was the end for Chris.

[Trip]

I agree with Stella's analysis of why Chris lost.  It's interesting that everyone in the game has come to the same conclusion whereas the editing, to me, makes it much harder for the viewer this season to be certain.  (On the WIDM website, 48% of the people in the poll think the Mol is Rik.)

 

I have to say that part of me really wants it to be Marlijn, just to see everyone on the show be wrong.  And if I didn't know better I'd suspect her more -- for example, she finds it very hard to keep a straight face when they don't put money in the pot.

[stellavision]

I have to say that part of me really wants it to be Marlijn, just to see everyone on the show be wrong. 

Right? If she's been playing Rik like a violin this whole time, I will laugh pretty hard at both him and myself.

 

(ETA: Whether she's de Mol or not, she *has* been playing him beautifully. But you get the idea.)

Edited March 1, 2015 by stellavision

[EllieH]

 

Rik taking the jokers from Chris made me 100% sure instead of 99% sure that Margriet is the mole and that they've all figured it out. Chris knew but since the other two also did and had jokers, that was the end for Chris.

 

I really like this theory too, it does tie up things nicely!

 

 

I have to say that part of me really wants it to be Marlijn, just to see everyone on the show be wrong.

 

She's never really it made it onto my list of suspects, so it would be fun to have it be her, just for the shock of missing all the signs!

[Watermelon]

I really like this theory too, it does tie up things nicely!

 

 

She's never really it made it onto my list of suspects, so it would be fun to have it be her, just for the shock of missing all the signs!

Margriet is the one who I've never suspected, even though I knew others were. She doesn't seem moley like Marlijn is, and Rik is who I picked weeks ago.

[SnideAsides]

I think it's interesting that this title turned up in the same season as that anagram for "innocent" in the rope challenge. Could it be that the clues this season are either completely phony or are pointing to players who are NOT the Mole?

[SnideAsides]

The last one. Until next year. And there would surely have to be a next year, since this season's ratings have apparently been equivalent to a US show pulling 40 million viewers every week.

[Watermelon]

So I'm assuming by the editing telegraphing Rik to be the mole, that in fact, he is NOT the mole. Is that what I should be gathering from this?  I can't wait to see who is the mole, and what exactly I missed.

[stellavision]

I think it's interesting that this title turned up in the same season as that anagram for "innocent" in the rope challenge. Could it be that the clues this season are either completely phony or are pointing to players who are NOT the Mole?

Now THAT would be fascinating.

 

The one thing that's always bothered me about the daisies being a clue is that it seems too obvious for the primary audience of the show (ie, Dutch speakers) and for the candidates themselves. When fishing boats were shown as a clue to Susan Visser, a) you could easily interpret that as "boat" rather than "fisher," and b) were the contestants even in those shots anyway?

 

This season, the notes from the Mole were delivered with the maybe-daisies, so the contestants couldn't miss them. If the flowers are in fact daisies, it seems fairly easy for a contestant to think, "Hey! Here's a margriet!"

 

But, daisies or not, Rik's behavior at the gaming table would have clinched it for me. Yes, he could have given a joker to Marlijn believing she was the Mole, but then why leave Margriet with two if she's a contestant? If he thought it were Marlijn, the thing to do would have been to take one joker each from Chris and Margriet, so he'd have two and the other contestants would each have one. (Why he gave Marlijn a joker, I don't quite understand.) Of course, the elaborate speculation is unnecessary since Rik is later shown voting for Margriet in the test.

[SnideAsides]

I did some Google Translating for that - apparently "daisy" in Dutch is "madeliefje", but "Margriet" translates into English as "Marguerite", which does indeed mean "daisy" in its original French. Not sure if that would still be too obvious though.

[Trip]

I really liked the live finale.  Nice to see huge adoring throngs for a show like this.

 

Also, of course, it was nice to be proven correct.  :-)

[stellavision]

STFU I cannot believe I actually found a clue!

 

And Trip found one too, we just didn't know enough about flower symbolism to know it was a clue and not a red herring.

[stellavision]

Also, Margriet pulled a genius move by making sure she was the first treasurer so that she'd encourage more sabotage by others later. It sure seems to have worked!

 

(Wonder whether Rik wishes he'd taken a bit less out of the pot!)

[EllieH]

I wasn't crazy about the live finale, I think I liked them better when it was just the group and Art (or another host in the past) sitting around reminiscing about their experience.  And showing the sabotage moments seemed somewhat clunky in this one?  Or maybe there weren't tons of good Margriet examples since it was clear so much extra mol-ing was going on.

 

Looking forward to next year!

[SnideAsides]

And showing the sabotage moments seemed somewhat clunky in this one?  Or maybe there weren't tons of good Margriet examples since it was clear so much extra mol-ing was going on.

 

Agreed. Between this, the choice of location being fairly similar to the Philippines last year, and the challenges themselves being much less inspired this time around (a lot of all-or-nothing prizes, quite a few recycled ideas, and losing four challenges to make room for the letters and non-eliminations), I'm wondering if maybe Sri Lanka was a back-up location choice like Iceland was a few years ago? By basically any other standards this would have been a good season of a reality show, but with WIDM's usual high quality, it feels to me like they missed the mark this time.

[Trip]

Not their best season, no, but it was pretty darn good I thought.  It certainly kept me guessing throughout, and not because the Mole wasn't Moling much (as is often the case when I don't guess properly).

 

And now it's time to look forward to season 6, which WIDM English Subs said she'll be subbing next!

[SnideAsides]

And now it's time to look forward to season 6, which WIDM English Subs said she'll be subbing next!

Season 6 is coming? Sweet! (Should we do separate episode threads or just one for the season?)

 

Edit: 3.4 million viewers for the reunion. It's not a perfect analogy because of how many cable networks there are in the US, but that's about the equivalent of a US show pulling 64.5 million viewers. Crazy.

[Jeffurry]

...I'm wondering if maybe Sri Lanka was a back-up location choice like Iceland was a few years ago? ...

This is news to me. What happened?

[Trip]

Given the relative few of us populating this show's forum, I think one thread for season 6 is sufficient.  (And we could probably trim some of the unused current threads too.)

[SnideAsides]

This is news to me. What happened?

The Arab Spring, basically. That season was originally supposed to be in Morocco and Spain, and they cut Morocco at literally the last minute because they weren't sure it'd stay safe.

 

Given the relative few of us populating this show's forum, I think one thread for season 6 is sufficient.  (And we could probably trim some of the unused current threads too.)

Agreed. I actually quietly deleted the player threads during the season once it became clear we weren't using them.

[Trip]

Not sure where to put this, but I feel like we need a place to discuss foreign versions of The Mole aside from just WIDM, and I doubt they'd get enough traffic to warrant their own forum, so perhaps we can just have a thread here for 'em?

 

To start off, I'd like to double-check that I've seen every available English-translated Mole series to date.  By my count, those are:

 

* US: 5 seasons (3 regular, 2 celebrity)

* UK: 2 seasons

* Australia: first 5 of 6 seasons (the sixth isn't freely available anywhere as far as I can tell)

* Netherlands (Wie Is De Mol): seasons 5 and 7-15, out of 15 seasons to date (1-4 and 6 not yet subtitled into English yet as far as I can tell; 6 is next on one subtitler's to-do list)

 

I actually haven't seen Australia season 4 yet; that's my final season to watch of all the ones listed above, having just finished Australia 3 today.

 

Wikipedia shows a lot of other foreign versions (Belgium, Bulgaria, Catalonia, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Ukraine); most of these were just a single season, though Italy was several years.  Does anyone know if there's any way to see any of these, or if there are any other Mole versions I've overlooked?

[SnideAsides]

Belgium's three seasons are online, as are Bulgaria's season (~70 episodes, uploaded out of order, and seems to be Mole-style challenges in a Big Brother format) and Germany's second season (minus the premiere). None of them have English subtitles though, but I did include the Belgian version in the Mole challenge guide I wrote a few years ago, and you might be able to get by with the combination of that and words you've picked up from WIDM. Poland's version used to be on Youtube, with subtitles for the first half of season one, but it seems to have been taken down and all I can find of it is the assortment of random unsubtitled episodes from the first two seasons on this profile. Australia season 6... check your messages (anyone else who wants it, let me know). WIDM's also on Youtube in its entirety, along with the two spinoff seasons.

 

I think you've got all of the online seasons otherwise, although I'm not sure WIDM season 7 (Thailand?) has been subtitled yet.

 

New Zealand's version is the one I really want to find one day, just because it's SUCH a mystery - over the years I've heard that it was just Australia's first season with a local host edited in (which: why, especially when Grant Bowler is from New Zealand?), that it was just a Maori dub of said season, that it had its own version that got cancelled after four episodes, and that it never existed at all.

[SnideAsides]

Apparently, next season will be in the Dominican Republic. Which does fit with what I was predicting - we're due for another season in the Americas, they wouldn't do Brazil because the network doesn't have the Olympics next year, America's probably too expensive, and they've already been to most of the other logical options in the region, which basically left us with this, Panama, and Chile as the likely destinations - but holy fuck they better go somewhere that isn't an island after this.

[Trip]

The cast list is now out (I found it on the show's Facebook page).

 

That page also links to a video where they are showing the first episode's execution surrounded by onlookers in a public square.  I got up to the first green screen before I realized that they were actually showing results and stopped watching.

[Watermelon]

I'm so excited. I've missed working on my Dutch.

[Trip]

It looks like some of the episodes for S15 have been pulled from YouTube.  I can find some there and some on Daily Motion, but I don't see a full set anywhere.

 

Does anyone have a source for where I can get a full set?  A friend wants to watch the season, and I'm sure I'd like to see it again at some point.  Thanks!

[SnideAsides]

Per the subtitler herself, it's moving to Saturdays this time around, so look for the episodes sometime around late Sunday night/Monday morning.

[stellavision]

Fun first episode! The first challenge had me cracking up. At least the Dutch make fools of themselves trying to speak Spanish on reality shows just like Americans do on TAR.

 

Way too early to have any theories yet, except I have one that Cecile is the first to go, only because she's not shown doing any tasks in the opening credits. I'm wondering whether that's because they didn't have much footage of her to go on.

 

They also showed a good bit of her interviewing in the end of the first episode, so I also wonder whether that's so that we can get to know her at least a little bit before she goes bye-bye.

[Trip]

Right now I'm leaning toward the Mol being a man, just because

three of the last four have been female

.  Rop, Klaas, and Taeke would probably get more votes from me in the quiz than Remy and Tim at this point.  (Remy's "oh, I have to tie my shoes at the last minute in this challenge" nonsense feels like obviously fake molery to me.)

Edited January 3, 2016 by Trip

[stellavision]

@Trip: Agree that Remy was being way too obvious with that shoelace thing.

 

Your "spoiler" tag reminds me: Don't watch that introductory episode! I made the mistake of watching it and it of course spoils a couple of seasons that have not yet been translated into English. I've already forgotten the names of the people who identified themselves as past Moles, so I'm hoping that if those seasons ever get translated, I won't have destroyed the experience for myself.

[SnideAsides]

I'm also thinking we've got a male mole this time, mostly because

as much as this show usually tries not to resort to tokenism, we haven't had a heterosexual male in the final episode in five years

.

 

I'm assuming there was some big hint in that opening where Art was talking to the Mole about everybody, but I feel like they're trying to get us to think "I won't talk to you again until the finale" literally means "Art and I never had a conversation!" is going to be one of the hidden clues, and that just feels too obvious? I don't know.

[stellavision]

I need to watch Ep 2 again because I'm pinning my suspicions on...Tim? Taeke? I can't remember which one, only that it's the one with the navy blue hat with writing on it.

 

I also can't remember WHY I'm onto him all of a sudden.

[Trip]

First of all, if you haven't seen past seasons, skip minutes 34 to 46; they reveal the faces and names of five previous moles in that period.

 

Second: the title was "The Last Word, Literally".  I'm thinking that has to do with the comments of the Moles in the monastery.  Perhaps if we could determine the last word spoken (in Dutch) by each Mole, that would create a clue?

 

And boy are they REALLY pushing this "changes behind your back" business.  Is that just about the back of the money, or is there anything more to it?

 

Still on Rop, Klaas, Taeke, and Tim as the Mol in approximately that order.

[SnideAsides]

All of the messages ended with the "behind your back" clue.

[Trip]

All of the messages ended with the "behind your back" clue.

 

Hmm.  So what was the final word, then?  Was it the Dutch word for "back"?  Still trying to figure out what the title could be referring to.

[EllieH]

I'm thinking the mole is a man as well, and even if I wasn't, I would have ruled out Ellie after this episode -- too much obvious sabotage and clunky game play!

[Mike N]

I'll third the notion that De Mol is a man. Right now, my top two choices are Klaas and Rop.

 

Maybe we just haven't seen enough of the season to know better, but I'm liking the theory that "behind your back" is about the money. The previews of next week's episode show an assignment that involves the bills; perhaps that's the producers' way of slowly directing the candidates to look at the money.

 

Also, the Tim/Taeke bromance is awesome.

[SnideAsides]

Hmm.  So what was the final word, then?  Was it the Dutch word for "back"?  Still trying to figure out what the title could be referring to.

Someone on another forum worked it out (the Dutch word for "literally" apparently has another literal meaning), but it spoils the identity of the Mole.

[Trip]

Thanks for the warning!  I'll stop looking into it then.

[stellavision]

I'm going with Taeke as my top suspect right now, because it would be a great show to be the biggest winner for the pot and then ensure that the bid for the test questions was higher than the total amount won the day before.

 

Cecile is my number two suspect, because we've now had a title with "word" in it and a title with "writing" in it, and she's the magazine editor.

 

Not going to look into what SnideAsides mentions!

[SnideAsides]

I just realised they started last week's past Moles non-challenge with Margriet's "Do you remember my face?" thing when she was the one who was telling everyone in that Sri Lankan village to "REMEMBER MY FACE!" for the election challenge. That's an amazing callback.

[Azgard12]

I'm so glad there's a place to discuss this and I'm officially all caught up!

 

My top Mole suspects:

Tim = My top suspect when I examine only how people are going about earning money for the pot and their actions during challenges.  He seems to really enjoy burning time in challenges with very small things that add up.  He also seems to be creating some minor discord and miscommunication among the group, which can result in long-term problems.

 

Cecile = My top female suspect and person who seems to know way more than they should in advance.  When they did the tag, I immediately noticed her white skinny jeans, but then they focused on it.  Essentially, a lot of her choices seem to reflect pre-knowledge of the task.

 

Taeke = Complicated suspect.  When we first met Ellie Lust, I was actually quite excited to see her in action: a powerful, intelligent woman who was ready to solve a mystery (or be it).  But, the more I watch, the more I'm convinced of two things... 1) if she's a contestant, then she's doing a horrible job at both the tasks and actual investigation while also mole-ing to the level of being unbelievable as a suspect and 2) if she's the mole then she's being way too obvious and yet not losing as much for the pot as she could.
(Would it be interesting to have an over-the-top obvious mole?  No?  Ok.)  

So, if I've dismissed Ellie as the mole, but it looks like Taeke has NOT.  It seems Taeke is going after Ellie and given the questions, if he was focused on Ellie and it wasn't her, he'd probably be in more trouble by now... if he isn't the mole.

 

(I've dismissed Rop, Ellie and Annemieke as the mole, each for several reasons.  I mix up Cecile and... Mar... Mareliyn?.. the other one? a lot.) 

 

Do we know who either of the eliminated were targeting as the mole?

 

Random question: which do you think is the better approach to the laser challenge?  Slow and steady or blaze through?

Edited January 19, 2016 by Azgard12

[Azgard12]

This season, I had built an entire case around the mole being... the person who ended up being the Runner up.

 

I wouldn't say this was the worst season, but I felt like the mole was underwhelming and the constestants did a lot of sabotaging themselves (as they always do).  In fact, the mole was someone I had "eliminated" from suspicion after just a few episodes.

 

The locations were absolutely beautiful, though.

[Azgard12]

This is probably my favorite season.  I understand your feelings toward it, Snide, but I felt the mole did an excellent job balancing sabotage and camouflage.  The challenges were low-key and sometimes ones that left me questioning how much a player would really be able to mess with them if they were the mole, but I was satisfied with the ways in which the mole made their goals happen.

 

The opera house with the organ is the single greatest moment / set-piece in all of the Mole for me.  Yeah, it kinda was pointless in the end and really helped nobody.  But it creeped me out and kept me guessing.

 

I *did* correctly identify the mole this season, after spending the first half of the season stuck on them and the person who was ultimately runner-up.  The math didn't lie in this case: the mole sabotaged money in creative ways, but they still stuck out on a spreadsheet.

[Azgard12]

I'm interested to hear more about the idea that the season had to be re-worked (and why).

 

So, I judge a season on multiple fronts and this one fell flat for me on all accounts...  The mole was underwhelming for me (as they often are when they're not your suspect).  The challenges were uninspired for me, too.  The location, while a beauty, was not fully utilized.

 

I did not guess the mole correctly- at all.  Every time I started to zero in on a suspect, they were eliminated (a good feeling, though).  The ultimate identity of the mole should have been obvious upon reflection, though, based on the group's behavior.  Did they ALL know who the mole was?

[Azgard12]

Best season I can recall: if you're starting WIDM, I recommend this one the most.  (I don't recall too many spoilers, though there's one thing that gets spoiled if you watch later seasons before this one...)

 

I was totally wrong on the mole (I thought it was the runner-up most of the season).  

 

The personalities, challenges, location, and the mole themself were just so amazing!

Edited January 19, 2016 by Azgard12

[stellavision]

I think Remy said he was spreading between 4 people, and I can't recall Airen naming anyone.

 

BTW, I am sad Remy is gone, because I FREAKING LOVE that a classical musician was considered enough of a celebrity to be included on a reality show that chooses contestants from national celebrities. I cannot picture that happening in the US.

Edited January 19, 2016 by stellavision

[Trip]

I think Remy said he was spreading between 4 people, and I can't recall Airen naming anyone.

 

BTW, I am sad Remy is gone, because I FREAKING LOVE that a classical musician was considered enough of a celebrity to be included on a reality show that chooses contestants from national celebrities. I cannot picture that happening in the US.

 

I'm sorry he's gone because he and Tim were the only halfway cute male contestants.

[SnideAsides]

The first half of the season was going to be filmed in Morocco until the Arab Spring happened, and then the cast got spoiled (something this show's usually very good at avoiding) while waiting at the airport for their flight to Iceland. Those two factors are basically why most of the stuff in Iceland takes place without anyone else around - on such short notice, it was easier for them to get filming permission for random fields than, like, trying to plan for four episodes in downtown Reykjavik.

[SnideAsides]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who watches shows like this for the hot men.