S08.E16: Heartbreaker

[WendyCR72]

Honestly, it's apples and oranges where the two are concerned as one is a "straight" police procedural whereas Castle is not. But I always loved M.E. Liz Rodgers on the Law & Order franchise versus total beige-ness where Lanie is concerned (the latter more so because of little to no development). Leslie Hendrix sounded authentic enough but had the biting snark and wit...

 

I sometimes wonder, if the worlds of these two shows ever collided, how she and Perlmutter would mesh or not...

 

ETA: Title-wise, am I the only one who has the Pat Benatar song from 1979, "Heartbreaker", pop into my head every time I read the title? Yes? Okay then.

[VinceW]

Southland was an absolutely fantastic and accurate portrayal of police work, and Regina's character rang as true as the others. Their attention to detail is what Castle lacks. Michael Cudlitz (John Cooper), Shawn Hatosy (Sammy), Ben McKenzie (Ben), Lucy Liu (Jessica), C. Thomas Howell (Dewey), and crew are all perfectionists and they did a lot of homework, including ride-alongs with LAPD officers, academy training, etc. They sometimes invited me to join them for chats with their fans, and the purpose of me being there was to answer questions about the police procedure depicted on the show......................While the claim is that Castle is not a police procedural, the show is heavy on police procedure. Unfortunately, most of what they show is poorly written. I sometimes feel bad for Seamus and the others because they have such bad lines to deliver. And then there's Lanie...

Your close connection to the Southland production as a consultant and the dedication of the cast to details explains the success of the show given that most episodes were produced on a very limited budget which required the actors, in many cases, to film a scene using just one take especially the action scenes out on location. Compare that to what has been put forth this season and last by ABC network execs allowing both lead actors to work under restricted clauses for selfish personal reasons which caused a predictable drop off in ratings to the point that at the halfway mark of season 8, first run episodes started drawing less live audience numbers than more recent repeat episodes broadcast within the last year.

Edited April 7, 2016 by VinceW

[BellyLaughter]

Your close connection to the Southland production then as a consultant and the dedication of the cast to details explains the success of the show given that most episodes were produced on a very limited budget which required the actors, in many cases, to film a scene using just one take especially the action scenes out on location. Compare that to what has been put forth this season and last by ABC network execs allowing both lead actors to work under restricted clauses for personal selfish reasons which caused a predictable drop off in ratings and a real disservice to long time viewers.

*Applause*

[femmefan1946]

And while the writers should want to be realistic, I get why they have to ignore realism sometimes.

 

I don't think a show needs to be real, or even realistic. I do think it needs 'truthiness', which I understand as being plausible in context. Like say, iZombie.

 

Which is why, although I liked the episode, the idea that Esposito would be allowed to be the sole escort taking his former fiancee back to jail was .... stupid

 

Perhaps we know why Beckett has so many meetings at I Police Place. She's being called in for disciplinary hearings for her many many faults and failings. Good thing she has a rich husband.

[verdana]

Southland was a fantastic show Lee I quite agree, I read some of your reviews which is what made me start watching it. 

 

And then there's Lanie...

 

 

Yes...indeed, what can we do with "lividity" Lanie? I feel sorry for Tamala given she has so little to do but remains relentlessly enthusiastic about everything talking up her non existent relationships with BFF Beckett and former lover Espo when she can but then may be that's not a surprise given she's being paid and having lots of free time on her hands!

 

Although TBH the entire cast right now are hardly stretched in the acting department. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by verdana

[femmefan1946]

What's sad is that, I believe most constant watchers are there for the characters and their interaction, rather than for the CotW.

One advantage of a long story arc, like LokSat *dons asbestos Stanfields* , is that the CotW can go on while the characters live their lives.

It was sloppy to have Beckett move out of the loft because of a wide conspiracy that has not been developed at all. It was beyond sloppy not to make it clear where she was storing her coats that would not jeopardize her friends and family. AirBnB? SRO hotel? Four star hotel on Rick's black AmEx card?

Any of those could lead to a CotW, possibly not related to the precinct.

 

Even details like Ryan making a foolish error because he is tired from working two jobs.

[CastleSeason8]

Part of the larger problem this year has been there has been no consistency with anything. Ryan taking Rick's side money, never to be brought up again. The fake cheating, gone with the wind apparently. Lanie spoke to both Kate and Rick at the start of S8 "he's a grown ass man" convo and the "i cant lose her" and both forgotten with her blaming him in 8x16. I could go on but would take up this whole page, especially if i started to get into LokSat or deeper into split. The fans arent stupid and its well known we dont have short term memory.

Not one conversation all season to explain any of it. Not acceptable at all and just another reason why S8 is a complete failure.

Edited April 7, 2016 by CastleSeason8

[westwingfan]

Part of the larger problem this year has been there has been no consistency with anything. Ryan taking Rick's side money, never to be brought up again. The fake cheating, gone with the wind apparently. Lanie spoke to both Kate and Rick at the start of S8 "he's a grown ass man" convo and the "i cant lose her" and both forgotten with her blaming him in 8x16. I could go on but would take up this whole page, especially if i started to get into LokSat or deeper into split. The fans arent stupid and its well known we dont have short term memory.

Not one conversation all season to explain any of it. Not acceptable at all and just another reason why S8 is a complete failure.

Watched a rerun of 7x06 today and at one point AU Beckett tells Castle that her days are taken up with paperwork and politics and she is too boring to write about, and that is pretty much what has happened. Time has to be wasted on explaining why the Captain has to get involved in particular cases, in the same way that Castle P.I.'s involvement was contrived, instead of them just turning up at crime scenes as a matter of course, leaving time for some of those interesting and informative conversations that Caskett used to have as they approached the crime scene. The showrunners in their early interviews claimed that promoting Beckett would open up avenues for interesting story telling, and that is what should have dictated their decision, her promotion should only have happened if it enhanced the show. Instead we have seen little to none of those interesting stories, so we're left with the belief that the only reason they chose to promote Beckett was so that Castle wouldn't have to work with her and she could be sidelined for most of the season, the dialogue she has been asked to deliver most of the time in her working capacity has hardly been as interesting as what Montgomery and Gates were given. Promoting Beckett stands out for me as one of the major reasons that S8 has been so poor. We've discussed on other threads as to how "realistic" the show is and to those who argued that her promotion was inevitable, necessary and deserving, I would ask them are they happy now that the core dynamic i.e. Castle and Beckett working TOGETHER has been destroyed.

[CastleSeason8]

Also very, very true Westwingfan

[oberon55]

Honestly I'm almost insulted at some of the things they expect me to swallow. I don't really expect realism but how about a little consistency. How is what Esposito did any worse than shooting your partner or going rogue and killing a bunch of people, stealing medical supplies & holding an innocent person prisoner while you sew yourself up. It's like they have a different rule book every week. Why is it so hard for them to follow the rules of the world that they created. I just wish they would try to maintain the internal logic of their own damn show.

[TWP]

Happily checked reality at the door and enjoyed every minute of it.  What would I do without the great escape that is Castle?  I hope I don't have to find out for at least another year....

[BellyLaughter]

Watched a rerun of 7x06 today and at one point AU Beckett tells Castle that her days are taken up with paperwork and politics and she is too boring to write about, and that is pretty much what has happened. Time has to be wasted on explaining why the Captain has to get involved in particular cases, in the same way that Castle P.I.'s involvement was contrived, instead of them just turning up at crime scenes as a matter of course, leaving time for some of those interesting and informative conversations that Caskett used to have as they approached the crime scene. The showrunners in their early interviews claimed that promoting Beckett would open up avenues for interesting story telling, and that is what should have dictated their decision, her promotion should only have happened if it enhanced the show. Instead we have seen little to none of those interesting stories, so we're left with the belief that the only reason they chose to promote Beckett was so that Castle wouldn't have to work with her and she could be sidelined for most of the season, the dialogue she has been asked to deliver most of the time in her working capacity has hardly been as interesting as what Montgomery and Gates were given. Promoting Beckett stands out for me as one of the major reasons that S8 has been so poor. We've discussed on other threads as to how "realistic" the show is and to those who argued that her promotion was inevitable, necessary and deserving, I would ask them are they happy now that the core dynamic i.e. Castle and Beckett working TOGETHER has been destroyed.

For me even including the LokSat rubbish, the "break up" and super sleuth multi tasking Alexis the promotion of Beckett to Captain has been one of the bigger fails this season. It's pretty obvious that Stana is working 3 maybe 4 days out if every episode so even if they wanted there's no expanding on her role as Captain beyond desk surfing and 1PP meetings. I will always wonder why Lieutenant wasn't a more realistic option?? Perhaps there wasn't the flexibility in Stana's days to have her do much else?? But holy hell how she hasn't passed out from boredom this season is beyond me - I guess the huge, shiney paycheque doesn't hurt!!

[KaveDweller]

For me even including the LokSat rubbish, the "break up" and super sleuth multi tasking Alexis the promotion of Beckett to Captain has been one of the bigger fails this season. It's pretty obvious that Stana is working 3 maybe 4 days out if every episode so even if they wanted there's no expanding on her role as Captain beyond desk surfing and 1PP meetings. I will always wonder why Lieutenant wasn't a more realistic option?? Perhaps there wasn't the flexibility in Stana's days to have her do much else?? 

 

We can see that she has more time off this season, but we don't know if that's  because she was only willing to work a certain number of days or if other factors played into that. Maybe she wanted more time off but would have done more if they were willing to write a different storyline? And I'm not trying to say that TPTB are pushing her out or that she is some victim, because I don't think that's the case. I'm just saying we don't know any details one way or the other. I think they could have kept her as detective and given her less screentime or made her captain with more screentime.  If they got rid of LokSat they would have had plenty of time for more interesting stuff.

 

I think Lieutenant would have been better because she could have resolved the issue last year of wanting more out of her job, but still let her be in the field more. Or do what some people suggested and have her be put in charge of some task force that was created to solve especially quirky murders.

 

Also, if the actors had such crippling demands ABC shouldn't have agreed to pay them a ton of money to keep it going. 

[BellyLaughter]

Coulda, shoulda, woulda ..... Yep, we'll never know for sure but what we're watching is not the best version of Castle - not even close but it's what they have chosen to do with the cards that have been dealt and to TBH if it's just gonna be more of the same next season I wish they would just not even bother. I have hung in there this season hoping it would still be a show I love but I'm more indifferent these days than anything else - I'd rather be angry or upset but now it's more resigned to accepting that any version of Castle we get from now on in is gonna be inferior and it's sad to watch a once funny dynamic show struggle to be anything like its former self for reasons that I can only assume are more than just poor storytelling choices.

Edited April 8, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[KaveDweller]

I'd rather be angry or upset but now it's more resigned to accepting that any version of Castle we get from now on in is gonna be inferior and it's sad to watch a once funny dynamic show struggle to be anything like its former self for reasons that I can only assume are more than just poor storytelling choices.

 

I think there are quite a few (probably competing/contradictory) issues impacting what the writers are able to do.  Someday I hope someone talks about what they are.

[Chado]

I think there are quite a few (probably competing/contradictory) issues impacting what the writers are able to do.  Someday I hope someone talks about what they are.

I'd only feel sympathy for the writers/showrunners if it was more complicated than just person X only wanting to work Y amount of days. If there was extra things on top of that about what people will/won't do in terms of storyline and/or interactions than I feel for the writers...because they are getting hate for things completely out of their control...

 

I doubt we will hear about it though, not in any sort of proper non-bias way. Somebody will probably come out and mention how difficult it was to work there, but it will be hard to take it as 'fact' when you factor in why it's being said in the first place.

[neddy]

*  I have enjoyed reading Lee's Castle reviews on police procedures.  I always like some sort of truthfulness no matter what police show I’m watching.  I’m not American nor do I live in the US  and I have watched many police type tv shows/movies far longer than I would care to admit.  I have grown up watching police procedures through tv and/or movies so my entire knowledge of American police procedures are from watching tv & movies (yes I know, sad isn’t it).   As a kid it didn’t mean anything to me if what I was watching was authentic or not (I wouldn’t have known, it all looked real to me as a kid) but as an adult I would certainly like (almost expect) some sort of authenticity (doesn’t have to be 100% for me) or just so long as I believe in what is being portrayed (I think femmefan1946 said trustiness).  In the procedure of police work presented in movies and on tv (we) all know that suspending believability in Castle is a must to enjoy the show.  The upside to this for me would be if I didn’t read reviews like Lee's I’d be none the wiser even if my brain was screaming “that’s not possible” or “how stupid was that” or “give me a break will you, cops don’t do that” etc.

 

*  To say I’m disappointed in S8 is an understatement.  I try never to be negative regarding Castle but sometimes I cringe at what I see on my screen today.  In past seasons of Castle I’m a little embarrassed to admit I would watch episode after episode, season after season floating along on another planet, would never see the big plot holes, the inconsistency (especially of canon these days), I barely even rolled my eyes at some of the “amazing” things that could be done in a flash, it was Castle and I loved it, but with S8 I’ve fallen back to earth with a big bang.  I’m probably the last person to notice things that most viewers see straight away, even blind Freddy sees them, but in 8x16 some things just whacked me on the side of the head immediately e.g. when Esposito allowed Sonia to enter an apartment first (before he did) … in the 'old days' he would never ever have done that and it was this type of thing that lessened my enjoyment because I did enjoy the episode more than many others for the season.  This season I sometimes feel that the writers have never watched an episode of S1-S7 of Castle let alone know the characters and yet I wouldn’t want their job for all the tea in China, they cop their fair share of negativity and I sympathise with them sometimes.  I’ve come to understand the phrase I read often in different forums “plot driven, not character driven” so much better now.  I just find it all so sad now and for the first time in watching Castle I care less if at all about many things including the "Clayton’s" separation and the LockSat arc.

 

So, S8 has definitely changed the DNA of the show for me and I no longer have stars in my eyes when watching.    I try not to read into anything to do with BTS rumours etc so the thing I’m most confused about is what is TPTB’s end game for Castle other than keeping the two leads separated for the best part of an episode for whatever reason that may be.  What will be Castle’s “swan song”?

Edited April 8, 2016 by neddy

[verdana]

Part of the larger problem this year has been there has been no consistency with anything. Ryan taking Rick's side money, never to be brought up again. The fake cheating, gone with the wind apparently. Lanie spoke to both Kate and Rick at the start of S8 "he's a grown ass man" convo and the "i cant lose her" and both forgotten with her blaming him in 8x16. I could go on but would take up this whole page, especially if i started to get into LokSat or deeper into split. The fans arent stupid and its well known we dont have short term memory.

I'm assuming the writers are relying on fan loyalty and sheer habit to ensure any disgruntled fans stay tuning in for the final season or so, ratings would seem to bear out the idea that the core audience left isn't going any where now, of course all bets are off if one of them leaves.

The biggest WTF in that list is the idea the writers came up with to suggest they were dating other people, everyone knew and yet nothing has been mentioned about it after the initial bombshell , sorry but that's crazy and an insult to the characters and the audience. Firstly, the idea they would casually date other people after what they've been through especially as they're married now is a complete non starter and secondly the writers seem to want to consistently ignore basic human nature and how family and friendships work, there is no way that upon finding this out they wouldn't have something more to say about it and wonder what had happened to their "dates" - that was the trigger event that made me stop watching. I've seen only short clips since.

In past seasons of Castle I’m a little embarrassed to admit I would watch episode after episode, season after season floating along on another planet, would never see the big plot holes, the inconsistency (especially of canon these days), I barely even rolled my eyes at some of the “amazing” things that could be done in a flash, it was Castle and I loved it, but with S8 I’ve fallen back to earth with a big bang.

Part of it (at least for me) is that a movie or TV show can have plot holes and various inconsistencies but if the writing is good and the story and characters captures the imagination I can ignore (or not even see it in the first place) these things. However, if the writing isn't up to scratch (made worse if actors are starting to look bored) then those weaknesses suddenly leap out and become a focal point to irritate along with the bad writing. Edited April 10, 2016 by verdana

[femmefan1946]

and to those who argued that her promotion was inevitable, necessary and deserving,

Piffle.

The realistic chances of a 35yo being given a captaincy are miniscule. No matter what a superstar she is or was.... did all her bad decisions start when she met Castle?

Hmmm... perhaps she was better off in the AU.

[TWP]

I think the reason I can happily enjoy Castle these days is because I was where you all were way back in Season 5.  The unrealism was especially annoying for me then, so my only criticism of what people are saying here is where were you in Season 5?  Catch up, y'all! ;-).  Apathy tends to change expectations, along with surfing for things I might enjoy more (found very little).

 

There is hope for people that they'll reach my apathy stage. It's a comfortable place to be ;-).

[mbutterfly]

Is that an "insider" hint, or just an educated guess. LOL

 

 

The distant cousin seems to be April Henry. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by mbutterfly

[S55]

I bet the line in the last scene about Castle's two favorite ladies/Beckett's boobs makes TV Line's quotes of the week.

 

Correct. 

[33kaitykaity]

Enjoyed this.  Actually had a real-life LOL when Ryan slapped his and over Castle's mouth to keep Castle from offending Sonia, Javier's ex-fiancee.  I rewound about five times and still LOL'd.  

 

One nitpick, that ten-year-old dress, did they really think it was necessary to show that Sonia had that "space" between her closed legs like that?