Piper Halliwell

[amensisterfriend]

What are some of your favorite Piper scenes/moments of the series?! 

 

I always see Piper described as the calm, even keel one of the four sisters and certainly understand why, but the more I rewatch, the more I see her as really kind of tense and neurotic...in a (mostly!) lovable and all too relatable way :) Thinking of it that way helps me deal better with some of her crankiness later on, seeing it less as surly negativity and more as genuine anxiety and even a little insecurity, as she grew up less confident/assertive/proud than Prue and less uninhibited/adventurous than Phoebe and therefore still somehow doubted her ability to make the right decisions and hold everyone together, especially once she became the oldest sibling and a mother. 

 

As many have said, I wish they had kept Piper as a chef, which seemed to suit her so much better than nightclub owner. If they needed an excuse to trot out musical acts, why not have her cooking in a place that happens to attract them?! Cooking allowed her to show how she's cutely obsessive, passionate, nurturing to her family and others she cares about, etc. Running a trendy, 'hip' nightclub just didn't seem to suit the Piper we first met and fell in love with. 

 

I also don't think the endless and, for me, tiresome Leo-related angst did the character many favors---HMC is a really strong actress and did so much with the more interesting material they gave her IMO. The scenes where she's grieving Prue are still easily among the most powerful of the whole series IMO. 

[4evaQuez]

Piper, at one point, was my favorite sister. I found the evolution of her character quite believable. She was the middle, forgotten sister. She didn't have Prue's assertiveness nor Phoebe's spunk and spontaneity. She was also the, "responsible," which is a role that is much needed but thankless.

 

I found the shy, awkward Piper lovable and easy to root for. However, I could also see how Piper would become the cynical, bitter woman of the 7th and 8th seasons. By that point, Piper had lost three mother figures. Of course there was Patty who the show was constantly comparing Piper to with the whitelighter forbidden love story and the power to freeze. Then there was Grams who we saw Piper was close to in Prewitched, and Piper easily took Grams' death the hardest. Lastly, there was her beloved big sister. While Piper was able to move on from Prue's death, she never truly healed. Once scene I love in Cheaper by the Coven is when Piper asks Grams if Prue would still be alive if they had known about their powers earlier. This showed us that Piper never truly got over the "what could have been" if Prue were still alive and their lives. She was a woman who lost a lot to magic and to a normal life. Realistically, I can see why Piper became the hardened, closed off woman she became in later seasons. However, I wish they could have kept more of what made her so lovable, too.

[amensisterfriend]

The best part about the Charmed rewatch I've been doing (it's like the TV version of an antidepressant for me!): I'm growing to really love Piper. I still think they overdid the cranky complaining, especially in later seasons, but I'm finally getting why so many fans name her as their favorite. She's awesomely witty and sarcastic, which is amusing but also a defense mechanism to deflect from how sensitive and emotional she is underneath. I get the sense that she feels things REALLY deeply. Prior to Prue's death, those feelings were closer to the surface, but even afterwards they're very much there. She's extraordinarily generous, kind in the ways that natter most, eager for others to be happy, and my pick for the most consistently selfless of the sisters. I like all the little ways she helps without wanting any attention or often even acknowledgment for them. When Patty calls Piper the 'heart' of the family in Just Harried, I now find myself agreeing.  And I really, really relate to how much of a worrier she is even when she tries not to be and howw hesitant she is to embrace change (accepting Prue's death, accepting Paige, leaving the job she disliked, just generally liking her 'normal' routines not wanting to deviate from them!) 

 

My favorite episode for the character might be Pre-Witched. We see her very relatable flaws in this episode---that she's unassertive, scared of change, etc.---but I love how deeply the family means to her even at a time when they weren't a fraction as close and functional as they are now. She's the one most sensitive and attentive to Grams, she's passionate about cooking but scared to pursue it as a career (I love characters who are passionate about SOMETHING, even when it's not what I'm passionate about!), she's sarcastic and witty but not truly cynical underneath.

 

I'm also finding that the first four or so seasons have so many more wonderful Leo/Piper moments than I'd recalled despite their issues. And Leo, while sometimes too bland and undefined a character, does have this calmness and wise acceptance of what he can't change that contrasts perfectly with how amusingly intense and semi-neurotic the Halliwells sisters can be :) 

 

Which Piper episodes/moments do you guys love most?! 

 

I feel guilty for underrating her awesomeness...but then IMO the awesomeness of the overall show is sadly underrated :) 

[amensisterfriend]

---I came here to post about how much more I'm loving and appreciating Piper, or at least the Piper of the first five or so seasons, and realized I'd just be pointlessly echoing much of what I wrote above :) I see her (rightly or wrongly!) as having some degree of anxiety, which accounts for her reluctance to embrace change, the fact that she worries and frets and sees the potential downsides of various situations, and even her irritability, which is sometimes the way anxiety manifests. She has a calm/self-contained vibe about her a lot, as many introverts do, but that doesn't mean anxiety doesn't lurk beneath the placid surface, and a lot of the situations the Charmed ones are in bring it out. Maybe theorizing that she has anxiety is just my own bizarre way of explaining some aspects of her character and relating to/loving her more, but I'm okay with that type of fanwank :) I've definitely dealt with my own fair share of anxiety and depression, so maybe I'm just projecting here, but I can't help seeing some of that in Piper. (I've found that watching this show helps keep some of my own anxiety/depression at bay for whatever strange combination of reasons!) 

I also think Piper sometimes feels a little insecure in contrast to her more vibrant, extroverted sisters. Prue is a strong, fearless and confident leader and high achiever who excels at nearly everything and has been since they were kids. Phoebe is an exuberant, funloving, energetic charmer (super lame pun intended!) who kind of 'lights up the room' and eventually becomes a local celebrity.  Paige has creative talents---drawing, singing, etc.---is kind of a unique individual and, as a half-whitelighter, has powers beyond what Piper and her other sisters do. Piper is clearly an amazing chef and witty and generous, but I could see how from her perspective she would feel 'ordinary' compared to her sisters and feel unsuited to fulfill the oldest sister/de facto leader role that was once occupied by Prue. I feel like she sort of suppresses the softer sides of her personality because she's endured so much loss and pain, comes to see them as weak and thinks she needs to be a bolder, tougher and more assertive leader now, but that doesn't mean that softer, gooey core of hers that feels so much (too much?!) isn't sill there.   

Thanks for listening to me ramble, fellow Charmed fans! 

[Kohola3]

Piper definitely had Middle Child Syndrome which is why, I believe, she took Prue's death so hard.  She was being forced into becoming the big sister and she wasn't ready for that.  Which brings up the fact that I honestly thought the funeral scene for Prue was very well acted by both actresses.  It felt so real to me.

And the loving, losing, finding, loving, losing, finding cycle with Leo would certainly drive anyone nuts.

[amensisterfriend]

What do you guys think are some of the best Piper-centric episodes (or even just episodes where you really happen to like her)? There are a lot of choices, but after just rewatching and crying through the series finale, I'm not sure I ever love her more than I do in that final episode! 

[Kohola3]

Oh, dear, have I brought you over to the dark side?

I really liked her in the Valkyries episodes.  She was manifesting her grief and anger about Leo and I really felt for her.  They certainly got jerked around a lot!  

Edited October 6, 2016 by Kohola3

[helenamonster]

"Hell Hath No Fury" is one of my favorite Piper episodes. I love how her grief over losing Prue manifests, how she finally allows herself to become angry at her big sister for leaving her, and how she makes the concentrated effort to be a more welcoming sister to Paige at the end.

[Kohola3]

I agree.  And it was totally realistic of her to be angry, that's part of the grieving process.  The funeral scenes with both surviving sisters was quite poignant and well done.  They did a great job acting in the scenes during the service.

[amensisterfriend]

Oh, dear, have I brought you over to the dark side?

Yes, you and HMC have lured me here...but since Piper is such a talented baker, I was kind of hoping the dark pro-Piper side would have cookies. Oh well. ;) 

"Hell Hath No Fury" is one of my favorite Piper episodes.

ITA---that's some A+++ acting by HMC, maybe her best of the entire series. 

I've probably rambled about this before (bear with me, you guys---it's been a tough day week year!), but HMC just has this way of conveying such a massive depth of feeling and a variety of complex emotions to me underneath those often measured line deliveries and fixed facial expressions. In my head, she's someone kind of prone to depression and especially anxiety, which explains her fear of change, her cynicism, her nervous insecurities, her fear of hoping/expecting too much, her seemingly excessive irritability when things don't go according to plan, etc. Despite being considered the "least special" and memorable of her sisters (Prue is the super strong, confident, driven overachiever; Phoebe is so charismatic, bold, vivacious and eventually locally famous; Paige is the only one who's half-whitelighter so has extra powers and gifts and has talents for art and music, etc) she's actually a very unique kind of character: introverted, kind of shy and eschewing the spotlight but with a quiet, unwavering strength and sense of self; extremely kind, caring and nurturing yet snarky and guarded in ways that might keep most people at a distance, somehow really calm and soothing yet very emotionally intense and neurotic at the same time. The more I watch, the more I appreciate what a layered character she is and really enjoy being in her company.  And my envy of her hair knows no bounds!!!   

[Kohola3]

Quote

 And my envy of her hair knows no bounds!!! 

Oh, Lord, yes I heart that hair!  It's gorgeous!

I think HMC must be a good mom as well, those kids seems so comfortable on screen with her.  Has nothing to do with acting or her character, just saying....

[helenamonster]

I always liked Piper but I find as I get older I definitely appreciate her, and Holly's acting, so much more. In many ways she is kind of the "boring" sister, compared to the others, but there's something very comforting and grounding in her presence, and the show was much better for it. She truly felt like the heart of the show.

22 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Oh, Lord, yes I heart that hair!  It's gorgeous!

I think HMC must be a good mom as well, those kids seems so comfortable on screen with her.  Has nothing to do with acting or her character, just saying....

I'm on season six right now and I've really noticed how natural she is with the twins who play Wyatt, and this was even before she had her first kid. I just love the way she interacts with them.

Thirded on the hair, btw. So lush!

[Blandings]

I'm not going to say much that's original but I had to add to the chorus of love for Piper, one of my favorite fictional characters. As other folks have said, there is so much depth to this sensitive, sarcastic, introverted but emotionally intense character. She's anxious, cynical and scared to allow herself to even hope for happiness but selflessly puts other people's needs before her own and never stops loving and protecting the people she loves. She's not the usual plucky, badass heroine type; she just wants a normal life, she loves cooking and homemaking and romantic comedies, and she is frequently scared, resentful, pessimistic, reluctant to face change and other things that most heroines aren't allowed to be. All that makes her a rounded character, and it's gratifying to see that no matter what her problems and flaws are, she chooses to be so kind, giving and braver than she thinks she can be. The character who always felt average or inferior compared to her siblings was special all along in the ways that count. I like the line about her being the heart of the family, but I read something I like even better about her being the rock of the family, not flashy but with a lot of substance, holding everything together and keeping people grounded even when she herself was in emotional distress. Please also count me in with those who think she had depression and anxiety, and since I've been through that, it's inspiring to watch someone like Piper conquer her fears, cope with scary changes and keep fighting without losing her ethics or her caring heart.  

The real point of this post is of course to agree about how stunning her hair is. I think I like it even more without the bangs, but it always looked beautiful.   

[magicdog]

On 11/17/2016 at 0:26 PM, Blandings said:

She's not the usual plucky, badass heroine type; she just wants a normal life, she loves cooking and homemaking and romantic comedies, and she is frequently scared, resentful, pessimistic, reluctant to face change and other things that most heroines aren't allowed to be.

I agree but I do think the character whined a little too much about wanting a normal life.  I cheered when Grams finally yelled back at her, "You're not normal!!". 

There were opportunities in which she could have renounced her powers but chose not to.  That would indicate she had resigned herself to her witchy destiny, and while there would be days she would be upset over it (who hasn't been upset over more regular aspects of their lives like their spouse or job?) she ultimately would come to terms with it and not keep crying about being "normal".  At least those sentiments should have been banished after season 2 or 3.

[amensisterfriend]

Quote

I agree but I do think the character whined a little too much about wanting a normal life.  I cheered when Grams finally yelled back at her, "You're not normal!!". 

There were opportunities in which she could have renounced her powers but chose not to.  That would indicate she had resigned herself to her witchy destiny, and while there would be days she would be upset over it (who hasn't been upset over more regular aspects of their lives like their spouse or job?) she ultimately would come to terms with it and not keep crying about being "normal".

 

 

YES. This. This is why, while I've grown to like and appreciate Piper a lot more, I still can't love her quite as unreservedly as I do the others. It's just a personal preference thing---as much as I relate to emotional, sensitive, anxious introverts (I am one!), I tend to love more enthusiastic, spirited, generally positive characters who try to embrace life, and Piper...isn't like that :) Which is fine, and I'm often not either, but she was such a drag to watch sometimes. And she was very snippy and impatient with her sisters' issues sometimes, which is fine, but then don't expect sympathy when you whine for the 12 zillionth time about not liking being a witch, being constantly upset with Leo AND being constantly upset without Leo, etc. And while she did become more angry, harsh, impatient and unpleasant after Prue's death, I've found myself developing the UO that she actually bothers me a little more in S2/S3. In later seasons, she at least had more valid reasons for being as moody and downbeat as she often was: Prue's death, worries about the safety and evilness of her child,  etc. In S2/S3, she never stopped whining and bitching over comparatively minor stuff like whether she should be with Leo or Dan (which, okay, so both of these attractive, kindhearted guys are dying to be with you---could you maybe stop bitching about this "problem" every single episode and sometimes while the sisters are trying desperately to save an innocent?!) and in S3 the 'wah, wah, why can't I have a more perfect dream wedding, I'm going on strike!' stuff drove me crazy. 

I mean, I really have come to like and sometimes even admire her, but I do wish they'd toned down those facets of her character and at least had the actress smile a bit more and deliver some of her lines with less of a bitter bite :) 

Edited November 20, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Guest]

Piper only went on "strike" though after the episode where the Elders caught them trying to get married and said she would never see him again. 

So, a pretty valid reason for her to erupt IMO. 

[Eva Marie]

Piper has a martyr complex: she needs to be needed, and actively enjoys being put upon and complain about it extensively.

Whenever Holly was given something juicy to act - she slayed it. My favourite piece of her acting is Brain Drain: I felt her suffering so acutely.

[iknowyouknow]

I'm so conflicted about Piper. I agree that she has interesting emotional layers and profound generosity, kindness and sensitivity beneath the bitter, cynical, high-strung snarkiness. She's closed off and guarded in some ways yet so deeply loving and nurturing, a contradiction which makes for wonderfully rich characterization. I also love how she's an anxious, insecure character in ways I relate to who overcomes that anxiety and insecurity when circumstances call for her to be strong. I identify so strongly with her introversion, how deeply she cares and how much she worries, how hard it is for her to let go of the past, and how she's a homebody who craves the peace that always seems elusive. The actress did a great job of making it seem like Piper always had a lot of thoughts and feelings simmering beneath the surface, a rich inner life to which the viewers were only partially privy. The theory that she battles a certain amount of anxiety and depression fits with much of what we saw and makes me sympathize with her even more. When I think about writing Charmed fanficition, it's my natural instinct to write from Piper's perspective.

BUT...!

But the actress and writing really went way overboard with the prickly, sour, perennially peeved discontent. It often came off less like a manifestation of her neurotic anxiety or even the show attempting to be funny as much as it just seemed like Piper just enjoyed being genuinely mean and nasty, which I'm guessing was not the original intention. I also agree that it too often came off as she was lashing out at Leo and her sisters, criticizing and complaining constantly. And which writer thought it was a wise idea to have a character who we knew was stuck being a witch anyway whine nonstop about being a witch for all 176 episodes? I agree with the people who contend that Piper started becoming too sour and negative by S2, not just after Prue's death. Some say that the actress has a very acerbic personality in real life, and I wonder if that bled too heavily into her performance as Piper.

[Eva Marie]

I actually find it difficult to buy Piper as an introvert because introverts are conflict-avoidant. Luke on Gilmore Girls was a more believable grumpy introvert because he grumbled much less and rarely actively generated conflict. He let his family and Lorelei walk all over him constantly to avoid confrontation.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Eva Marie

[Esmeralda]

On 3/12/2018 at 9:31 AM, Eva Marie said:

I actually find it difficult to buy Piper as an introvert because introverts are conflict-avoidant. Luke on Gilmore Girls was a more believable grumpy introvert because he grumbled much less and rarely actively generated conflict. He let his family and Lorelei walk all over him constantly to avoid confrontation.

 

And that most certainly does not describe Piper!  I wouldn't count any of the Charmed Ones as introverts - all were extroverts, even Paige.  Piper simply wanted everything her way and whined when that didn't happen.  She really didn't want a normal life - she'd miss her powers whenever they would've come in handy.  She wanted a stress-free, everyone-do-whatever-it-takes-to-make-Piper-happy life.  And that's nowhere near to being normal.

Actually that description of Luke sounds more like a description of Leo than Piper.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Esmeralda

[Guest]

On 12/03/2018 at 2:31 PM, Eva Marie said:

I actually find it difficult to buy Piper as an introvert because introverts are conflict-avoidant. Luke on Gilmore Girls was a more believable grumpy introvert because he grumbled much less and rarely actively generated conflict. He let his family and Lorelei walk all over him constantly to avoid confrontation.

 

Luke was CONSTANTLY grumbling. He took issue with almost everything, with a look, huffing, muttering to himself or bursting out in anger. With Taylor especially. Lmao. Yes, he'd give-in an awful lot but he wouldn't do it without a lot of complaining and shouting. Even Piper, despite her constant moaning would give-in to her sisters or Leo or whatever the latest conflict was more often than not. 

 

 

I don't think it's fair to say introverts are automatically conflict avoidant. Although, Piper certainly developed a back bone and a leadership quality as the show evolved. You couldn't imagine season 1 Piper making decisions. But then you can't imagine many times season 1 Prue would relinquish decision-making duties. But once forced into that situation, she could take charge. Not always making the best decisions but doing the best she could. That doesn't take away her introverted nature. 

It's like once she has her family, she's content with them (magic getting in the way aside) whereas the likes of Phoebe and Paige were constantly trying to find gratification outside, clubbing, dating, overconfident at work, even being the ones to bring trouble home whether they were dating a demon or spotted the latest haunted house etc etc. Piper never was and was more likely to keep to herself.

Anger doesn't really make someone an extrovert. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Lost

[Eva Marie]

On 3/19/2018 at 4:04 AM, Lost said:

Anger doesn't really make someone an extrovert. 

But feeding on human energy and liking to receive lots of attention does. That is the only defining criteria of introversion/extroversion - the sensitivity of your nervous system and how it recharges/drains. Introverts are conflict-avoidant in daily life for the sole reason that it is physically draining and stressful to engage in human drama for someone who can not recharge from the external world. They have to pick their battles. Piper seems to actively rejoice in generating drama at random and be right in the middle of it. A real-life introvert would be exhausted by the middle of one of her typical diatribes and dreaming of escaping to a quiet corner with a purring kitten to re-energise.

You're right that Luke is just as grumbly - he just got less screen-time to do so and there was  plenty of evidence of him enjoying being alone unlike Piper.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Eva Marie

[Eva Marie]

Overall American TV is pretty sucky at introvert portrayals. The only ones that did it realistically were Six Feet Under, Rectify and Gilmore Girls (early Rory actually read books at lunchtime and chose to fold laundry on a Fri night!)

[blueray]

A lot of people confuse "shyness" with intervertism. An intervert recharges by spending time reflecting internally. This doesn't mean they don't like being around people. This is in contrast to an exterverts who finds energy by being around people. I would say that Piper leaned more intevert at least in earlier seasons. She enjoyed cooking as an escape when stressed. This doesn't necessary go away, its more that she was put in a position where she had to to take charge which she did.

[Guest]

On 24/03/2018 at 3:19 AM, Eva Marie said:

But feeding on human energy and liking to receive lots of attention does. That is the only defining criteria of introversion/extroversion - the sensitivity of your nervous system and how it recharges/drains. Introverts are conflict-avoidant in daily life for the sole reason that it is physically draining and stressful to engage in human drama for someone who can not recharge from the external world. They have to pick their battles. Piper seems to actively rejoice in generating drama at random and be right in the middle of it. A real-life introvert would be exhausted by the middle of one of her typical diatribes and dreaming of escaping to a quiet corner with a purring kitten to re-energise.

You're right that Luke is just as grumbly - he just got less screen-time to do so and there was  plenty of evidence of him enjoying being alone unlike Piper.

 

But that's oversimplifying an introvert/extrovert. They come in all shapes and sizes, and not every trait/characteristic is going to fit into the "textbook" definition.

Also, I think you're over exaggerating Piper's "diatribes". She didn't rant or rage all that often. She's known for her sarcasm and especially fire in later seasons, but her ranting and raving wasn't all as common as is made out. 

And there's numerous examples (especially in the later seasons) of Piper doing her own thing, lying down in her bedroom, sitting with the baby etc alone, escaping the clutter and the chatter and then reluctantly being called upon by her sisters for the latest demon/catastrophe. 

Or whilst Phoebe would be more animated in her reaction to the latest storyline, Piper would be sat twiddling her thumbs at the table, sighing in an exhausted manner. In fact there's so many reaction shots of her appearing deep in thought and anxious that I started to wonder if it was at all intentional that the character suffered from depression, which given all of the death and destruction in their lives would make a lot of sense. 

In terms of ranting and big long soliloquies Phoebe is the biggest character to fit the description. Whilst everyone else just either nods along, smiles, does a sad face etc. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Lost