S17.E27: Episode 27

[Nashville]

The difference is, in poker you don't have to manipulate your opponents.

I take it you haven't played much poker. :) All bluffing is, in effect, manipulation. One of the coolest tricks in Texas Hold'Em is to manipulate your opponent into going all-in thinking you're bluffing, when you're not.

Vanessa may have a "good read" on the other players but that doesn't translate into well played game on her part, unless her intention was to paint such a huge target on her back her alliance would want to keep her around just to keep a target off themselves.

There was a discussion 2-3 weeks ago (can't remember if it was in this thread or not) about the translation of poker skills to BB. Basic consensus was the two contexts were so different as to nullify the effective use of poker skills, and render it an apples-to-oranges comparison.

ETA: Shoot - just realized this was a new episode thread, so the earlier discussion certainly wasn't in here. :P

Edited August 25, 2015 by Nashville

[Guest]

How quickly after finale night does Liz's 93% like of Austin evaporate to zero. The real world has a way of killing showmances.

I figure it's like 'gay for the stay'.  The HGs who need physical/romantic/camera-time attention just lower their bar as much as necessary.  'Slummer for the summer'?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Which Big Brother Houseguests Get The Kiss Of Betrayal? / 'Judas' has to turn on his allies, because somehow he's allies with everyone.

[candall]

I take it you haven't played much poker. :) All bluffing is, in effect, manipulation. One of the coolest tricks in Texas Hold'Em is to manipulate your opponent into going all-in thinking you're bluffing, when you're not.

There was a discussion 2-3 weeks ago (can't remember if it was in this thread or not) about the translation of poker skills to BB. Basic consensus was the two contexts were so different as to nullify the effective use of poker skills, and render it an apples-to-oranges comparison.

ETA: Shoot - just realized this was a new episode thread, so the earlier discussion certainly wasn't in here. :P

If you remember where that discussion is, I'd like to read it.  I think the most critical components in both poker and BB are proficiency at deception and the ability to detect deception in others.

 

I've seen Vanessa's bewildered sad-eyed puppy dog look enough to trigger my gag reflex, though.  I hope she doesn't pull that one out at the card table.

[ennui]

Now Judas, on the other hand, can and should die myriad horrible deaths.

 

Iirc, Judas committed suicide. (Again, source material.)

[Nashville]

If you remember where that discussion is, I'd like to read it.  I think the most critical components in both poker and BB are proficiency at deception and the ability to detect deception in others.

 

Found it!

 

ETA: Well... the start of it, anyway.  Not sure how far/long it straggles through the thread.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Nashville

[Kris117]

The difference is, in poker you don't have to manipulate your opponents. Vanessa may have a "good read" on the other players but that doesn't translate into well played game on her part, unless her intention was to paint such a huge target on her back her alliance would want to keep her around just to keep a target off themselves.

I take it you haven't played much poker. :) All bluffing is, in effect, manipulation. One of the coolest tricks in Texas Hold'Em is to manipulate your opponent into going all-in thinking you're bluffing, when you're not.

There was a discussion 2-3 weeks ago (can't remember if it was in this thread or not) about the translation of poker skills to BB. Basic consensus was the two contexts were so different as to nullify the effective use of poker skills, and render it an apples-to-oranges comparison.

While you do manipulate people in poker, you do it with your knowledge of the cards, your analysis of what cards others hold, your knowledge of what their gameplay is like, and your demeanor. You don't talk beyond asking for more cards and placing your bet. In BB, you manipulate others by talking and listening. I believe she has done very well at reading others and talking them into her way of thinking early in the week. Then, however, she goes overboard, gets paranoid, is overwrought, badgers people, and puts herself in unnecessary danger.

In summary: "There's no crying in poker!"

Edited August 26, 2015 by Kris117

[Nashville]

While you do manipulate people in poker, you do it with your knowledge of the cards, your analysis of what cards others hold, your knowledge of what their gameplay is like, and your demeanor. You don't talk beyond asking for more cards and placing your bet. In BB, you manipulate others by talking and listening. I believe she has done very well at reading others and talking them into her way of thinking early in the week. Then, however, she goes overboard, gets paranoid, is overwrought, badgers people, and puts herself in unnecessary danger.

In summary: "There's no crying in poker!"

I've been in plenty of games where there was significant level of chatter between players - and sometimes the snark level of said chatter is a thing of beauty to behold. :) Frequently centered around whether Player A thinks Player B is bluffing, now that I think about it....

[yankee1151]

I've been in plenty of games where there was significant level of chatter between players - and sometimes the snark level of said chatter is a thing of beauty to behold. :) Frequently centered around whether Player A thinks Player B is bluffing, now that I think about it....

Me too, which is why I wear headphones at the poker table. I can't stand that shit. I've also noticed when Vanessa plays poker she is incredibly quiet and focused. I think the biggest difference between BB and poker (and there are many) is that in poker you have to make decisions quickly. Yes, you can (and should) be watching your opponents throughout the course of a session or tournament to get a read on their playing style, but when it comes to making moves, you have very little time to use all that information (tells, assessments of others' styles, pot odds etc) to make an informed decision. In the BB house you have a LOT of time, and I can imagine it's easy to default to the mindset that others are lying/hiding something from you. Not only do you have WAY too much time to overthink (and clearly Vanessa, like me, is an overthinker) but in poker if you regularly assume your opponent(s) are bluffing you will bust VERY quickly. There are so many other elements and bluffing is only one of them - and it's a tool good players use sparingly and in the correct spots. To translate poker strategy to BB strategy you'd almost have to be a robot. If you get caught bluffing in poker, no one holds that against you personally (or they'd be crazy to). If you get caught lying in BB it's a whole different story because there are personal relationships involved, and some people play very emotionally. Vanessa included, although I think her excessive emotional displays come more from frustration as she is TRYING to think like a poker player and it's not really working too well in BB. Way too much time to think (comparatively speaking) before coming to final decisions + personal feelings means it would be VERY hard to apply a solid poker strategy to the game of Big Brother.

 

IMO of course. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by yankee1151

[NYGirl]

Just got to watch Sunday's episode because I was away.  All I have to say is thank you thank you thank you to the feed watchers for making their posts.  The whole episode made me think..ah he's putting up Vanessa but I knew from reading the posts that he didn't.  I would have thrown something at the TV if I didn't know what was going to happen.  I hate this show and I'm never going to believe anything they say or do every week.

[Nashville]

I hate this show and I'm never going to believe anything they say or do every week.

 

So, basically, you're in a game of Big Brother with... Big Brother?

 

Talk about meta.