cheyz January 27, 2015 Share January 27, 2015 Abbie/Frank vs Katrina/Henry: Abbie loves Frank more than Katrina could possibly love Henry, but if needed, she will put him down without a second's hesitation Abbie met Frank last season, she didn't know him before he transferred in to take over as chief. How can she love him more than a mother loves her child? Link to comment
Watermelon January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Abbie met Frank last season, she didn't know him before he transferred in to take over as chief. How can she love him more than a mother loves her child? Katrina met Henry last season too. 3 Link to comment
netlyon2 January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Katrina met Henry last season too. Exactly, and in the last 15 minutes of the season. At which point he promptly tied her up, mwa-ha-haed at her, and handed her over to the Horseman of Death as a reward. I understand the "mother's love" argument to an extent, but it's based more on Katrina's guilt and focus on what might have been than it is on anything real. Even Luke Skywalker had to go through some things to get to the "I feel the good in you" point, and Vadar gave him a lot more to work with. Abbie's feelings for Frank are based on who he really is, not a fantasy that she has in her mind. He's given her (and Team Witness) almost unwavering support from the beginning, even when he couldn't believe what was happening. They've fought side by side and he even gave his life for the cause. He was an apostle. I have no problem agreeing with jhlipton that Abbie's love for the real Frank Irving is stronger than what Katrina feels for her fantasy-Jeremy. Yet, Abbie was still ready to put a lid on those emotions for the good of the world. 8 Link to comment
sinkwriter January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 Katrina met Henry last season too. But she also carried him for nine months as a mother, and as I understand it, that can create an intense bond as well. I don't disagree with anything you said in your post, especially about Abbie and Frank (going through dangerous situations together can certainly build a bond quickly), but I do think that however irrational her feelings may seem (given what Jeremy has done), I still do get why Katrina is having trouble letting go of that need to believe in her son and a potential good. I still don't like how her character is written, though. :) 3 Link to comment
DeLurker January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 The Katrina/Henry versus Abbie/Frank relationship is a tough one. I'd say that the bond forged between Abbie and Frank while short, but insanely intensified by fighting the Apocalypse would (to me) match the intensity of a mother-child bond. I see the difference in how Abbie views her place in the world versus Katrina's view. Clearly, Abbie is weighing the potential well being of the world as a higher priority than her bond with We-Buried-You-Frank. She's a Witness through and through. Katrina is viewing the well being of her offspring and potential regaining that relationship that she was never allowed to develop (outside of utero). She has no real connection to the modern world so her concern for the larger community would only be in the abstract. Viewing the world through such a narrow filter, it would be easy to step back from the summon bomum/greatest good for the greatest many concept. 1 Link to comment
jhlipton January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 (edited) It doesn't help that Beharie is able to put a lot of emotion and intensity into her feelings toward Pre-Zombie Frank and her apprehension toward Post-Zombie Frank, whereas we know Winters can't convey even a mother-child love convincingly. That said, I can see Abbie saying (and believing) "The good of the many outweigh the good of the one." far more than I can Katrina. Edited January 30, 2015 by jhlipton 2 Link to comment
DeLurker January 30, 2015 Share January 30, 2015 It doesn't help that Beharie is able to put a lot of emotion and intensity into her feelings toward Pre-Zombie Frank and her apprehension toward Post-Zombie Frank, whereas we know Winters can't convey even a mother-child love convincingly. I can just picture the meetings between Nicole Beharie and TPTB: Nicole, we love you and we know just how hard you are trying, but really we are coming up against a wall and don't know how to make you hear us. You're over-emoting all over the place - it is in your voice, when you don't have dialogue it is in your posture and all that eye-rolling? It has to stop. Like yesterday. The Witness needs to be a literal witness - not a participant in the story. If a Witness was supposed to be a catalyst for the story they would have been given a different title. Do you see? We getting through to you? And then when you have scenes with Tom, Orlando or Lyndie? You guys are just like kids in the classroom! Your setting a bad example for them and they are emulating your behaviour. Basically your lack of scenes together this season is our way of not letting you kids sit next to each other so you don't misbehave and disrupt the scenes that have been written. Now Katrina is an excellent example of the stoic character we need you to be. I know sometimes there's an "absence" about her, but that is the beauty of Katia's ethereal portrayal! And viewers TALK about it! They spend hours examing her scenes looking for a clue as to what the meaning is behind her words and seemingly contradictory demeanor. The viewers have totally embraced the still-waters-run-deep of Katrina! I know the feedback is probably hard to hear, but it is so so critical you course correct. We really want Abbie to be a core part of our story going forward, but S1 really got us off to a bad start and it was terribly misleading to the viewers that the show was about the two Witnesses and the Apocalypse and all the rest of that stuff. You got sucked into that and it was a disservice to your character. A Witness needs to witness - observe. Report. I've got to write this up so it is going to be part of your permanent record. 7 Link to comment
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