Cassandra Cillian: Math Girl

[MissLucas]

I don't think the brain grape will be retconned but to me it looks as if the writers thought that a character under a constant death sentence is too dark for this show and therefore decided to keep it on the back-burner until a magical cure can be found. (Flynn is now also in that position but of course that death threat won't be something that looms over him for years but only until the end of the season.)

[johntfs]

Another aspect of Cassandra that's being ignored is that she has a monster in her head.  Not the cancer, but a "potential her" that's horrifying.

Consider the effects and "worsts" the Apple of Discord brought out:

Ezekiel: Nothing, he was already the worst him.

Stone: Art critic with anger issues.

Baird: Authoritarian military martinet.

Flynn: Would-be world ruler

Cassandra: Sadistic nihilist whose "Hello" to the world would shatter Europe and cause a six figure body count.

I get it.  The joke of the episode was How bad could Worst Math Girl be?  And the punchline is "really damned bad."  Still, it's out there now.  The first four "worsts" could cause problems on a small (or largish) scale, but with Worst Cassandra, you best lock down for Armageddon ASAP.  My thought is that Cassandra "cures" her cancer with magic and that spawns an evil cancer-double who's a seasonal Big Bad

Edited December 29, 2016 by johntfs

[johntfs]

I've just gotten season and am up to episode 4.  Is it just me that's noticed that Cassandra seems oddly attractive to other women?  Not attracted, but attractive.  Other women seem unusually disposed to like her.  In the season 1 episode, Fables of Doom, Cassandra gets cast in the traditionally male role of Prince Charming.  Then in the Drowned Book, it's Cassandra who bonds with Isabella to the point of scoring contact info. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 10:19 PM, johntfs said:

Another aspect of Cassandra that's being ignored is that she has a monster in her head.  Not the cancer, but a "potential her" that's horrifying.

Consider the effects and "worsts" the Apple of Discord brought out:

Ezekiel: Nothing, he was already the worst him.

Stone: Art critic with anger issues.

Baird: Authoritarian military martinet.

Flynn: Would-be world ruler

Cassandra: Sadistic nihilist whose "Hello" to the world would shatter Europe and cause a six figure body count.

I get it.  The joke of the episode was How bad could Worst Math Girl be?  And the punchline is "really damned bad."  Still, it's out there now.  The first four "worsts" could cause problems on a small (or largish) scale, but with Worst Cassandra, you best lock down for Armageddon ASAP.  My thought is that Cassandra "cures" her cancer with magic and that spawns an evil cancer-double who's a seasonal Big Bad

I agree it is still out there. Nothing happened to Ezekiel, Stone rearranged paintings while Cassandra immediately head off to mess with a power grid that would kill lots of people and destroy Europe.  Why was that her first reaction? Where did that even come from?  And why wasn't she more disturbed by it?  

[johntfs]

On 1/5/2017 at 4:41 AM, andromeda331 said:

I agree it is still out there. Nothing happened to Ezekiel, Stone rearranged paintings while Cassandra immediately head off to mess with a power grid that would kill lots of people and destroy Europe.  Why was that her first reaction? Where did that even come from?  And why wasn't she more disturbed by it?  

The implication seemed to be that she didn't remember.  Her first question when she "woke up" was something like "Where are my clothes?"  as for your first two question, I've had a few thoughts, but one reason I'd like maybe two or three more episodes per season is so we can explore stuff like that.

Also, while I don't "'ship" Cassandra with anyone, I would like to see her in some kind of romanticish relationship with somebody.  I think I'd kind of like it even better if she got used, hurt and/or betrayed by that somebody.  Then we might get more exploration of "darkside" Cassandra.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

The implication seemed to be that she didn't remember.  Her first question when she "woke up" was something like "Where are my clothes?"  as for your first two question, I've had a few thoughts, but one reason I'd like maybe two or three more episodes per season is so we can explore stuff like that.

Also, while I don't "'ship" Cassandra with anyone, I would like to see her in some kind of romanticish relationship with somebody.  I think I'd kind of like it even better if she got used, hurt and/or betrayed by that somebody.  Then we might get more exploration of "darkside" Cassandra.

Stone remembered he described what he was feeling when he was talking to Flynn which lead Flynn to figure out it was the Apple of Discord. Though it could be depending on the person or maybe some time passed since it wore off Stone (Cassandra did have time to beat up Lamia before heading off to destroy Europe and the two were still being detained by security and/or police at the museum). But I'd really like them to explore it too. Why was that her first reaction? Was that Cassandra's real reaction or her cancer reaction or the same part of her that lead her to join the Brotherhood. They keep giving us these little dark moments from Cassandra and it would be interesting to explore.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Stone remembered he described what he was feeling when he was talking to Flynn which lead Flynn to figure out it was the Apple of Discord. Though it could be depending on the person or maybe some time passed since it wore off Stone (Cassandra did have time to beat up Lamia before heading off to destroy Europe and the two were still being detained by security and/or police at the museum). But I'd really like them to explore it too. Why was that her first reaction? Was that Cassandra's real reaction or her cancer reaction or the same part of her that lead her to join the Brotherhood. They keep giving us these little dark moments from Cassandra and it would be interesting to explore.

 

Perhaps the more distant/alien "worst you" is to "normal you," the less you recall from that time.  I could see Stone getting pissed if art was mistreated or poorly displayed.  Perhaps the anger and envy that make up "worst Cassandra" are very deeply buried and only come out if something like the Apple is involved.

We kind of know why Cassandra joined the Brotherhood.  She wanted to be cured of the thing that was going to kill her.  Moreover, consider that she was diagnosed at 15.  So Cassandra would have been treated in the pediatric ward.  She'd know other kids with cancer.  Kids who would later die of cancer.  So when the Brotherhood convinced her that magic was real, could help her, could help a lot of others and that the Library was selfishly keeping it from the rest of humanity, it's understandable that she chose to do what she did in the first episodes.

Plus, think about Dorian Gray's remark that Cassandra was "an almost complete innocent."  Innocent and ignorant share a lot of meaning.  Cassandra never finished school formally.  Never went to college.  Never went to a carnival.  Never had a romantic relationship beyond teen-stuff.  Never had the full life experience of a normal rounded human being, much one who was a genius.  Her job was janitor at a hospital, probably just in case she needed some medical treatment for her condition.  Not only was the "brain grape" going to take her life, until the Brotherhood/Librarians found her, it had robbed her of a chance to live her life in any meaningful way.  Hence her innocence.  Figure deep down Cassandra feels a great deal of anger, envy and resentment toward people who got to lead lives far more full than hers.  It's not hard to see how "worst" Cassandra would enjoy dropping some disaster and death into other peoples' lives the way it had been dropped into her own.

Beyond all that Cassandra has been protected, coddled and limited because of her condition.  Perhaps for once instead of being shielded from danger, she wants to be the danger.  Instead of being poor, sad, brain-grapey little math girl, in her darkest fantasies, Cassandra Cillian wants to be:

Edited January 7, 2017 by johntfs

[HunterHunted]

On 1/4/2017 at 7:29 PM, johntfs said:

I've just gotten season and am up to episode 4.  Is it just me that's noticed that Cassandra seems oddly attractive to other women?  Not attracted, but attractive.  Other women seem unusually disposed to like her.  In the season 1 episode, Fables of Doom, Cassandra gets cast in the traditionally male role of Prince Charming.  Then in the Drowned Book, it's Cassandra who bonds with Isabella to the point of scoring contact info. 

"Ladies Love Cassandra" has been a perennial through-line. The frost giant woman was kind of into Cassandra in "And The Reunion of Evil" and we know that the vampire woman was into Cassandra.

[johntfs]

40 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

"Ladies Love Cassandra" has been a perennial through-line. The frost giant woman was kind of into Cassandra in "And The Reunion of Evil" and we know that the vampire woman was into Cassandra.

I haven't seen it as much this season, which makes me mildly sad.

[Chaos Theory]

On 1/12/2018 at 7:59 PM, HunterHunted said:

"Ladies Love Cassandra" has been a perennial through-line. The frost giant woman was kind of into Cassandra in "And The Reunion of Evil" and we know that the vampire woman was into Cassandra.

 

On 1/12/2018 at 8:43 PM, johntfs said:

I haven't seen it as much this season, which makes me mildly sad.

I know its a fun plot point even if the show goes nowhere with it.   There was also the first episode in season 2 "The Drowned Book" with the Italian Diplomat.  Eziekel was supposed to get some hot female Italian diplomats earings for something or other but couldn't figure out how to do it and eventually just told her outright that he was going to rob the place which intrigued her a little but then lost track of her.  It was Cassandra who finally got the earings....and her phone number "for coffee" if she was ever in Italy.   

[HunterHunted]

On 1/12/2018 at 7:43 PM, johntfs said:

I haven't seen it as much this season, which makes me mildly sad.

Me neither. I'm also sad. I'd love to see it continue, but unacknowledged by the rest of the group. When they finally do acknowledge it and task Cassandra with getting info from a woman, that's when they subvert the trope and it fails to work.

[Hanahope]

Cassandra still isn’t dressing much like an adult.

[johntfs]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Cassandra still isn’t dressing much like an adult.

At this point, screw it, she likes what she likes.  We just have to enjoy the rare moments (like in the vampire episode) where she does dress grown-up.