Spencer Reid: Gorgeous Gray Matter

[ReidGirl]

47 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I've tried posting there but anything remotely positive about the show or Reid specifically is immediately overrun by hoards of grammatically challenged young ones espousing how awful the show is now.  And that they need to bring back Shermar (sic) and Hodge(sic). Endlessly 

Haa haa.. I agree with this. I was reading the comments and they are very depressing. Who are these "Hodge" and "Reed"? There was even somone asking why is Hotch not there in finale and when is Morgan coming back full time. I tried to put some positive comments but was soon outnumbered by the negative comments in milliseconds. That experience made me newly appreciate this forum.

Also I dont understand that if you hate the show so much and dont watch, why do you need to follow it on social media just to put negative comments. I know I would stop watching If MGG leaves but no way I would keep on posting negative comments about it.

Edited May 12, 2017 by ReidGirl

[ReidFan]

that's the  million dollar question, ReidGirl. I will never understand why all those folks who 'don't watch it anymore because it sucks since <whoever> left' don't just move on then? (the actors all have!)  Why waste your time, torture yourself and expend any energy on something that no longer gives you any pleasure, any joy, any reward? If it's a particular actor you're missing, join his/her FB page, follow him/her on Twitter etc. If it's an aspect of the show missing for you, find a different one (granted that would be more difficult and take some time) but in the meantime, there's some 11 other seasons of CM to hold onto.

I'm with you, if Matthew left I probably wouldn't watch anymore either. But I also wouldn't be all over social media saying <whoever> sucks and isn't as good as Reid was (even if I felt that way O:-) ) I follow Matthew on all the social media, belong to several Matthew related fan groups and that would likely continue because it's about him. I would treasure the 250+ eps of CM I have that he's in, and the movies he's done etc. And I'd look forward to whatever he does next because I love and respect his work. But my association with CM sites would end. Quietly.

[Kara101]

17 hours ago, Droogie said:

  And Reid is the only one, has always been the only one, to identify with the Unsubs, to risk his life for them.  It never generated the awe that it should have.

.

You got me curious, Droogie. I know Reid identified/ risked his life for Owen in Elephant's memory. Was there any other time?

[autumnmountains]

On 5/11/2017 at 6:05 PM, ReidFan said:

 

 

On 5/11/2017 at 5:48 PM, Droogie said:

 Real bravery is being terrified and doing it anyway.

This. So much this. Some of y'all know me from other sites. My "signature" on a few of the sites is "Courage cannot erase our fear, courage is when we face our fear"  from Seize the Day in  Newsies the Musical. The character who sings that is Davey. Spencer and Davey are very much alike (might explain why they are both my favorite characters). Davey reminds me a lot of Reid. Or visversa as David/Davey has been around a lot longer than Spencer if you include the actual movie. . .ANYWAYS ...Reid has shown that aspect of himself tenfold.

While I do think Spencer has grown, as almost anyone would in 12 years, I think his bravery has always been there. Yes, he typically uses his words and massive brain to one up an unsub or in one famous scene, an unsub's father, who in my opinion was far more evil than his daughter. 

While I don't necessarily want him to become a "physical-first" type of person (no idea how to word what I'm thinking), it is nice to know when "push comes to shove (no pun intended) " he can hold his own. 

On 5/11/2017 at 6:03 PM, normasm said:

Just have to re-post this because you nailed it, Droogs!

he has always been a badass!

One of my favorite "tv tropes" is Badass Bookworm. And yes, they list that for Reid. Lol.

Edited May 13, 2017 by autumnmountains

[ReidFan]

6 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

You got me curious, Droogie. I know Reid identified/ risked his life for Owen in Elephant's memory. Was there any other time?

several times but the first one that came to mind:

"Conflicted" he identifies with Adam/Amanda; empathises like no other can.

[JMO]

Derailed, Somebody's Watching, The Fisher King (part 2), With Friends Like These, Nameless/Faceless, Zugzwang, Angels

[ReidGirl]

3 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

You got me curious, Droogie. I know Reid identified/ risked his life for Owen in Elephant's memory. Was there any other time?

In Revelations he said sorry to Tobias Hankel when he shot him as he knew it was his other personality Charles who was responsible for torturing him.

[Kara101]

16 minutes ago, JMO said:

Derailed, Somebody's Watching, The Fisher King (part 2), With Friends Like These, Nameless/Faceless, Zugzwang, Angels

You think he identified/risked his life for the unsub in zugzwang? I think I'm missing something here haha. 

[ReidFan]

1 minute ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

You think he identified/risked his life for the unsub in zugzwang? I think I'm missing something here haha. 

yeah, I do think he did. Earlier in the episode, before they really know anything about her, he says 'this bitch  is a nobody' . But he tries valiantly to connect with her - the misunderstood under appreciated genius angle- to achieve peaceful resolution... without the desired result of course :(

Don't remember the episode title, but it happened several episodes after Zugzwang, the writer who was offing women he was writing erotic stories about, Peter something I think. The climactic scene by the swimming pool, he tries a new tactic to empathise with the unsub. The victim is rescued (by Morgan's timely dive into the pool) successfully, but the unsub does slit his own throat after first acknowledging and thanking Reid for being honest.

[JMO]

I believe Reid identifies with every unsub, because he's too smart not to see their pathology, and too empathetic not to feel badly for them.  I think that would include the diabolical and very ill Diane.  I was just offering a list of times I could remember where he knowingly put his life at risk, as well.

[ReidGirl]

8 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

yeah, I do think he did. Earlier in the episode, before they really know anything about her, he says 'this bitch  is a nobody' . But he tries valiantly to connect with her - the misunderstood under appreciated genius angle- to achieve peaceful resolution... without the desired result of course :(

Don't remember the episode title, but it happened several episodes after Zugzwang, the writer who was offing women he was writing erotic stories about, Peter something I think. The climactic scene by the swimming pool, he tries a new tactic to empathise with the unsub. The victim is rescued (by Morgan's timely dive into the pool) successfully, but the unsub does slit his own throat after first acknowledging and thanking Reid for being honest.

The episode was The Gathering. he tries a reverse technique of being honest with the unsub.

[Kara101]

11 minutes ago, JMO said:

I believe Reid identifies with every unsub, because he's too smart not to see their pathology, and too empathetic not to feel badly for them.  I think that would include the diabolical and very ill Diane.  I was just offering a list of times I could remember where he knowingly put his life at risk, as well.

By identify, do you mean he sees a part of himself in the unsub, or that he feels a sense of pity for them? I was using the former but maybe my definition of "identify" is off

I also think I might consider some of this "empathizing" to be more "manipulation"  lol but I guess they really are quite similar. 

However he definitely does feel bad for some unsubs, as illustrated in Elephant's memory.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[Complexity]

2 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

By identify, do you mean he sees a part of himself in the unsub, or that he feels a sense of pity for them? I was using the former but maybe my definition of "identify" is off

I think he empathizes with the unsubs which can include identifying with them, but not pitying them.

[JMO]

3 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

By identify, do you mean he sees a part of himself in the unsub, or that he feels a sense of pity for them? I was using the former but maybe my definition of "identify" is off

Not pity so much as empathy.  A sense that, if his life had unfolded as theirs has, maybe it would have happened to him as well.  'There but for the grace...'

[Kara101]

2 hours ago, JMO said:

Not pity so much as empathy.  A sense that, if his life had unfolded as theirs has, maybe it would have happened to him as well.  'There but for the grace...'

 

Edit for clarification: What I meant by this is that I find it a bit worrying and disturbing that Reid felt he might have developed so easily into an unsub. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[JMO]

4 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

Thing is, I think Reid's life really was a perfect recipe for an unsub. Some of their background stories are actually not as bad as Reid's I don't think. Some, maybe even most are and are far worse , but not all. 

And therein lies the whole study of 'resilience', and trying to figure out exactly what makes it happen for one, but not another.

[Kara101]

1 minute ago, JMO said:

And therein lies the whole study of 'resilience', and trying to figure out exactly what makes it happen for one, but not another.

I suppose you're right. Isn't it sort of the job at everyone at the BAU to be able to understand the unsub's pathology though? I do agree that there is definitely something that, uh, "hits closer to home" with Reid though. 

[Complexity]

4 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

Thing is, I think Reid's life really was a perfect recipe for an unsub. Some of their background stories are actually not as bad as Reid's I don't think. Some, maybe even most are and are far worse , but not all. 

Experiencing something similar is not needed to empathize. Empathy is to understand and share someone else's feelings. So if an unsub is sad, then anyone can empathize with that sadness by understanding and sharing the emotion even if they have never experienced the reason for the unsub's sadness. The reason doesn't matter. It's the emotion that matters.

[Droogie]

I think that's where a lot of his empathy comes from.  Whether he's mistaken about it, I think Reid thinks he could have easily become like them.  I don't believe he's ever given himself any credit for his strength of character.

[normasm]

18 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

I also think I might consider some of this "empathizing" to be more "manipulation"  lol but I guess they really are quite similar. 

There are also the circumstances where he actively manipulates an unsub because he understands their motivation. Chester Hardwick is a good example. The unsub from Persuasion. He tried to manipulate Diane. He manipulated (to a degree) the unsub in With Friends Like These. 

And, we just saw the best manipulation of an unsub this last Wednesday!

Edited May 12, 2017 by normasm

[JMO]

3 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I think that's where a lot of his empathy comes from.  Whether he's mistaken about it, I think Reid thinks he could have easily become like them.  I don't believe he's ever given himself any credit for his strength of character.

"Watch me."  

That's what was so good about that.

[Complexity]

3 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I think that's where a lot of his empathy comes from.  Whether he's mistaken about it, I think Reid thinks he could have easily become like them.  I don't believe he's ever given himself any credit for his strength of character.

What about all the other people who empathize with the unsubs? I empathize with them even though I have never experienced anything close to what most of them have experienced. However, I have experienced a full range of emotions. That's all anyone ever needs to be able to empathize.

[Kara101]

1 minute ago, Droogie said:

I think that's where a lot of his empathy comes from.  Whether he's mistaken about it, I think Reid thinks he could have easily become like them.  I don't believe he's ever given himself any credit for his strength of character.

This is what confuses me. I can see why he would think he might have maybe snapped and become a spree killer like Owen. That is just killing out of rage/revenge. I think this was a big reason why he identified with him so much. 

But to think he might of ended up as a guy who likes to sadistically slowly kill and eat the uteruses (uteri?)out of victims, is a little weird to me. I'm not saying those guys were "born" to do that, but I do think its something that went wrong very early developmentally with them. Whether it was abuse or whatever. You don't just have a bad life event when you're older and pick that "inclination" up. So I'm just confused why Reid would think that. His early childhood wasn't too bad I don't think. 

Eh, I guess I just get freaked out thinking of Reid as a sadistic unsub!

[Fashionista7]

“You can't hurt me, I found peace within myself.” - Michael Jackson

"I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear." - Nelson Mandela

[PMPA]

2 hours ago, ReidFan said:

The CM official Facebook page is s cesspool of disgruntled NHNWers and Shemar's Baby Girls who do not seem to want to let him move on.  Even though that's HIS wishes. 

I've tried posting there but anything remotely positive about the show or Reid specifically is immediately overrun by hoards of grammatically challenged young ones espousing how awful the show is now.  And that they need to bring back Shermar (sic) and Hodge(sic). Endlessly 

CBS own site has the same issue  

I don't doubt that Shemar Moore was the big draw. Just look to his social media following. And there is a faction that love the Morgan Garcia thing. But there's also the faction of us that wanted that dialed back -too much is not a good thing.

But both Joe and Matthew have substantial followings. And so do both Paget and AJ. Even Kirsten.  I don't think Facebook is the best platform to measure popularity

I'm not sure how the producers gauge the fan reaction anymore.  I would think methods that require time and effort would hold the most weight but who actually writes letters anymore these days? 

Actually if you read the comments, you'll see that a good lot of them are from people watching the show that are unhappy for some reason or other.  So, as NHNW are not watching, then there goes that theory.  Its also somewhat convenient to simply blame what is actually a pretty small group. No, I'm not part of that group, but I follow some of what goes on.  I do watch the show still, occasionally.  I have not looked at comments in recent weeks, but most certainly about 2 episodes into the Reid arc, there was some serious complaints about the show, and these were from long term viewers who were absolutely not teens, tweens or whatever the phrase is now.  Alot of them said they would not watch until this arc was over, and it seems alot of them followed through with that.  Much of the other comments were on the new additions, in particular Walker.  I rarely saw a positive comment on that character.  Prentiss as UC is not a popular move either, and its not only or always because of the absense of Hotch.  Alot of long time viewers just dont think it works, and its been pretty widely discussed that PB just has not looked comfortable in the role.

Erica Messer had a interview some time back in a publication, and it soemthing about Reid's story and the worst yet to come?.  I don't think I have ever seen a single article with so many comments. At least 90% were from people watching the show who were very unhappy.  The vast majority of those, identified themselves as Reid fans. Its still up there, see for yourself.  TV Guide maybe?  So again, to simply label them as "disgruntled NHNW" is factually incorrect. 

I dont get though why people feel that these posters are not entitled to their opinion.  Like it or not, alot of people were not happy with the show this season and alot of them were not happy because of the last 9 episodes.  And whats wrong with people wishing that Shemar or Hotch were back?  Perhaps they, like a lot of people miss the old team. 

If tptb were smart or cared one cent about its viewers, they would look at those comments and views and take them on board.  Instead what was regularly done was that a thread would be deleted.  It happened on at least 3 occasions. Also, in fairness, using misspellings of names is a bit off, do you not think. Darn Autocorrect I shout!!

[Kara101]

10 minutes ago, Complexity said:

Experiencing something similar is not needed to empathize. Empathy is to understand and share someone else's feelings. So if an unsub is sad, then anyone can empathize with that sadness by understanding and sharing the emotion even if they have never experienced the reason for the unsub's sadness. The reason doesn't matter. It's the emotion that matters.

Thanks for explaining it.  It makes a lot more sense now. 

[Droogie]

9 minutes ago, Complexity said:

What about all the other people who empathize with the unsubs? I empathize with them even though I have never experienced anything close to what most of them have experienced. However, I have experienced a full range of emotions. That's all anyone ever needs to be able to empathize.

I don't know if we agree.  To empathize is to be able to put oneself in another's shoes.  I think Reid has an uncanny ability to do that.

[Complexity]

4 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

This is what confuses me. I can see why he would think he might have maybe snapped and become a spree killer like Owen. That is just killing out of rage/revenge. I think this was a big reason why he identified with him so much. 

But to think he might of ended up as a guy who likes to sadistically slowly kill and eat the uteruses (uteri?)out of victims, is a little weird to me. I'm not saying those guys were "born" to do that, but I do think its something that went wrong very early developmentally with them. Whether it was abuse or whatever. You don't just have a bad life event when you're older and pick that "inclination" up. So I'm just confused why Reid would think that. His early childhood wasn't too bad I don't think. 

Eh, I guess I just get freaked out thinking of Reid as a sadistic unsub!

You have it exactly right (just combine being born with it [nature] and abuse [nurture] as the two are combined to cause a person to develop that way). I posted about this with more technical info in this post. Follow the links in that post to get a better understanding of the psychological disorder involved and why an adult cannot suddenly become a sadistic unsub from any event that occurs when you're older.

2 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

Thanks for explaining it.  It makes a lot more sense now. 

You're welcome. ? 

[Droogie]

6 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

This is what confuses me. I can see why he would think he might have maybe snapped and become a spree killer like Owen. That is just killing out of rage/revenge. I think this was a big reason why he identified with him so much. 

But to think he might of ended up as a guy who likes to sadistically slowly kill and eat the uteruses (uteri?)out of victims, is a little weird to me. I'm not saying those guys were "born" to do that, but I do think its something that went wrong very early developmentally with them. Whether it was abuse or whatever. You don't just have a bad life event when you're older and pick that "inclination" up. So I'm just confused why Reid would think that. His early childhood wasn't too bad I don't think. 

Eh, I guess I just get freaked out thinking of Reid as a sadistic unsub!

I don't think Reid is even remotely capable of such things.  But I think he fears that he could be, or he once feared it, at any rate.  "I know what it's like to be afraid of your own mind."  He feared a schizophrenic break, true.  But I think he saw ingredients in his upbringing that could've produced a recipe for disaster.

And his childhood was pretty bleak: no real peers, a schizophrenic mother to care for when he was still a child, no dad, the object of intense bullying...  

[Complexity]

2 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I don't know if we agree.  To empathize is to be able to put oneself in another's shoes.  I think Reid has an uncanny ability to do that.

I'm about to get my masters degree on the subject so I hope I have it right by now. ? 

[Droogie]

Just now, Complexity said:

I'm about to get my masters degree on the subject so I hope I have it right by now. ? 

Congratulations.  I still don't think we agree though.  I don't mind -- no desire to argue.

[Hotchgirl18]

9 minutes ago, PMPA said:

Actually if you read the comments, you'll see that a good lot of them are from people watching the show that are unhappy for some reason or other.  So, as NHNW are not watching, then there goes that theory.  Its also somewhat convenient to simply blame what is actually a pretty small group. No, I'm not part of that group, but I follow some of what goes on.  I do watch the show still, occasionally.  I have not looked at comments in recent weeks, but most certainly about 2 episodes into the Reid arc, there was some serious complaints about the show, and these were from long term viewers who were absolutely not teens, tweens or whatever the phrase is now.  Alot of them said they would not watch until this arc was over, and it seems alot of them followed through with that.  Much of the other comments were on the new additions, in particular Walker.  I rarely saw a positive comment on that character.  Prentiss as UC is not a popular move either, and its not only or always because of the absense of Hotch.  Alot of long time viewers just dont think it works, and its been pretty widely discussed that PB just has not looked comfortable in the role.

Erica Messer had a interview some time back in a publication, and it soemthing about Reid's story and the worst yet to come?.  I don't think I have ever seen a single article with so many comments. At least 90% were from people watching the show who were very unhappy.  The vast majority of those, identified themselves as Reid fans. Its still up there, see for yourself.  TV Guide maybe?  So again, to simply label them as "disgruntled NHNW" is factually incorrect. 

I dont get though why people feel that these posters are not entitled to their opinion.  Like it or not, alot of people were not happy with the show this season and alot of them were not happy because of the last 9 episodes.  And whats wrong with people wishing that Shemar or Hotch were back?  Perhaps they, like a lot of people miss the old team. 

If tptb were smart or cared one cent about its viewers, they would look at those comments and views and take them on board.  Instead what was regularly done was that a thread would be deleted.  It happened on at least 3 occasions. Also, in fairness, using misspellings of names is a bit off, do you not think. Darn Autocorrect I shout!!

The only reason Prentiss is the Unit Chief is because she's a Mary Sue. She's supposed to represent Erica Messer. 

[Complexity]

Just now, Droogie said:

Congratulations.  I still don't think we agree though.  I don't mind -- no desire to argue.

We're not really disagreeing. Putting one's self into the preverbal shoes of another is often used to describe how a person can understand another person's psychological world. There is the understanding part. From there, one can then share the emotions of that psychological world. So we're really saying the same thing. You're saying how it's done while I'm defining what it is. In both instances, we are referring to the same subject of empathy.

5 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I don't think Reid is even remotely capable of such things.  But I think he fears that he could be, or he once feared it, at any rate.  "I know what it's like to be afraid of your own mind."  He feared a schizophrenic break, true.  But I think he saw ingredients in his upbringing that could've produced a recipe for disaster.

And his childhood was pretty bleak: no real peers, a schizophrenic mother to care for when he was still a child, no dad, the object of intense bullying...  

Keep in mind that Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) (aka being a "psychopath") is completely unrelated to the disorder of Schizophrenia or any of the other delusional disorders.

And a bleak childhood usually does not equal severe abuse.

So while Reid's childhood was not ideal, it was not anywhere close to what is typically needed for a child to develop ASPD. 

[JMO]

I think there is an element of choice involved, and that is part of Reid's valor.  Someone else might be capable of empathy, in that they own the full spectrum of emotion, but they don't choose to go there in a particular situation or with a particular person, because responding with anger is more satisfying and because it's a little frightening to think that it could have been you.  

[Droogie]

2 minutes ago, Complexity said:

We're not really disagreeing. Putting one's self into the preverbal shoes of another is often used to describe how a person can understand another person's psychological world. There is the understanding part. From there, one can then share the emotions of that psychological world. So we're really saying the same thing. You're saying how it's done while I'm defining what it is. In both instances, we are referring to the same subject of empathy.

OK -- this is just for clarification of what I am actually saying, and then you can have the last word on it; I'll be finished.  The ability to put oneself into the proverbial shoes of another for understanding is empathy.  If you lose a parent, I can empathize because I've lost a parent.  Sympathy is the feeling of compassion for another's situation without necessarily feeling his or her feelings.

i know I don't have to provide you with definitions, because master's degree.  But this is what I mean.  

And I'm sorry to have derailed the discussion from Spencer Reid, who is the reason I am here in the first place.  ?

[JMO]

Not derailed at all, Droogie.  One of the more interesting conversations we've had on here in a while, pulling apart what makes our (my) favorite character tick.  

[Kara101]

Yeah, after thinking about it I definitely do think Reid empathizes with the unsubs, at least on an intellectual level. He knows what makes them tick and may feel bad about how they got to such a horrible state. I do think he sometimes can empathize with them on an emotional level too.

I guess the reason why I was questioning it is because when I think of myself empathizing, I typically feel like "well, I guess I understand where they're coming from and I may very well have done the same thing if I was in their shoes." Which, well, maybe Reid does think that too, but I have to admit it does freak me out!

[Complexity]

17 minutes ago, Droogie said:

OK -- this is just for clarification of what I am actually saying, and then you can have the last word on it; I'll be finished.  The ability to put oneself into the proverbial shoes of another for understanding is empathy.  If you lose a parent, I can empathize because I've lost a parent.  Sympathy is the feeling of compassion for another's situation without necessarily feeling his or her feelings.

i know I don't have to provide you with definitions, because master's degree.  But this is what I mean.  

And I'm sorry to have derailed the discussion from Spencer Reid, who is the reason I am here in the first place.  ?

It's not that big of a deal. Clearly, it's an area that I thoroughly enjoy which is why I am in the field of psychology and why I am attracted to a show like Criminal Minds.

As far as the definition of empathy, It's easy enough to look up: Source

em·pa·thize

ˈempəˌTHīz/

verb

verb: empathize; 3rd person present: empathizes; past tense: empathized; past participle: empathized; gerund or present participle: empathizing

understand and share the feelings of another.

"counselors need to be able to empathize with people"

synonyms: identify with, sympathize with, be in sympathy with, understand, share the feelings of, be in tune with; More

Edited May 12, 2017 by Complexity

[Complexity]

12 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

Yeah, after thinking about it I definitely do think Reid empathizes with the unsubs, at least on an intellectual level. He knows what makes them tick and may feel bad about how they got to such a horrible state. I do think he sometimes can empathize with them on an emotional level too.

I guess the reason why I was questioning it is because when I think of myself empathizing, I typically feel like "well, I guess I understand where they're coming from and I may very well have done the same thing if I was in their shoes." Which, well, maybe Reid does think that too, but I have to admit it does freak me out!

If you'd like to work on being more empathetic, then do what @Droogie has suggested by putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Not intellectually. But actually try to see yourself in their place. Breath the air they're breathing. Smell the smells. Hear the sounds around them. Imagine that what's happening to them is happening to you. Right then. In that moment. Feel it. What does it feel like to be them in that moment of time. But don't lose yourself in the process (referred to as maintaining psychological boundaries).

Simply thinking of what the other person is feeling isn't empathizing. You have to actually feel it. Not think about feeling it, but actually feel the emotion in real time.

Feeling bad for someone is sympathizing. Feeling the emotions with them is empathizing. Clear as mud? LOL!

Edited May 12, 2017 by Complexity

[Kara101]

2 minutes ago, Complexity said:

If you'd like to work on being more empathetic, then do what @Droogie has suggested by putting yourself in the other person's shoes. Not intellectually. But actually try to see yourself in their place. Breath the air they're breathing. Smell the smells. Hear the sounds around them. Imagine that what's happening to them is happening to you. Right then. In that moment. Feel it. What does it feel like to be them in that moment of time. But don't lose yourself in the process (referred to as maintaining psychological boundaries).

Simply thinking of what the other person is feeling isn't empathizing. You have to actually feel it. Not think about feeling it, but actually feel the emotion in real time.

Feeling bad for someone is sympathizing. Feeling the emotions with them is empathizing. Clear as mud? LOL!

I thought "cognitive" empathy was its own separate form of empathy. Basically, you understand the thought processes and why they did what they did. However, you don't feel the emotions that they are feeling. I'm sure you are an expert on this, but I swear I have seem the phrase "cognitive empathy" many places. 

I don't think I have a problem with empathy usually, I just really can't put myself in the shoes of someone who tortures, kills someone, decapitates their head and then has sex with it. I just can't. I can understand how they are sadistic and have abandonment issues and all that. But I cannot put myself in their shoes. I just cannot ever, ever, ever is imagine myself doing something like that. I guess this is sort of arrogant ( I'm not sure that's the right word) of me since I never experienced what they experienced and I have no idea how it would have impacted me. But I can't help but just label that person "crazy;" I just can't comprehend it.

I guess it's a good thing I'm not in the BAU!

[Complexity]

2 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

I thought "cognitive" empathy was its own separate form of empathy. Basically, you understand the thought processes and why they did what they did. However, you don't feel the emotions that they are feeling. I'm sure you are an expert on this, but I swear I have seem the phrase "cognitive empathy" many places. 

I'm absolutely no expert on the subject. I'm more advanced in the field than the average person, but less so than others with more education and experience. I also don't know everything there is to know in the field, and I'm not always right about the things I think I know. Which is to say I appreciate discussing these things so I can share what I know and also learn what I do not know. ?

Having said that... I have never heard of the phrase "cognitive empathy." That's not to say it doesn't exist (a quick google search says it does). It's just not something studied in any of my classes. And I've taken a ton of them (psych major with 42 hours psyc classes 4.0/4.0, summa cum laude, plus my masters with only oral exams left 3.9/4.0). However, my undergrad was a regular psych degree while my masters is specifically for counseling (to be a licensed therapist).

So it's very possible that "cognitive empathy" is something discussed in other areas of psychology, just not in academia or counseling. ?

2 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

I don't think I have a problem with empathy usually, I just really can't put myself in the shoes of someone who tortures, kills someone, decapitates their head and then has sex with it. I just can't. I can understand how they are sadistic and have abandonment issues and all that. But I cannot put myself in their shoes. I just cannot ever, ever, ever is imagine myself doing something like that. I guess this is sort of arrogant ( I'm not sure that's the right word) of me since I never experienced what they experienced and I have no idea how it would have impacted me. But I can't help but just label that person "crazy;" I just can't comprehend it.

I guess it's a good thing I'm not in the BAU!

That's very understandable. However, you're kind of mixing apples with oranges. The things people with anti-social personality disorder (ASPD) do is their behavior, not their emotion. We can empathize with their emotion (fear/sadness/anger of being abandoned) while being completely incapable of identifying with their behavior (murdering, decapitating someone, ewwww). Even though we may share the same emotions, it does not mean we choose the same behavior in response to the emotions. So it makes sense that you cannot see yourself behaving that way. I certainly can't. I think most people can't.

[Kara101]

I was just thinking of something that I think relates to this discussion. Reid feels tremendous empathy for Nathan Harris. If I'm remembering correctly, Nathan Harris had a loving mother and a normal upbringing. His father died, but that isn't enough to turn anyone into an unsub. So, I guess Nathan just turned into a sexual sadist by chance/unlucky genetics/whatever. I'm guessing that Reid felt so much empathy for him because he couldn't choose whether or not to choose to inherit schrizophrenia or not. So, Reid fears his genetics could be controlling his life eventually, similar to Nathan's. Most people can muster up sympathy for an unsub with a horrific childhood, but I'm sure Reid's fear of schrizophrenia also contributed to his sympathy of some people who might have just been born with unfortunate dispositions. I'm not saying people are born killers, as is evident because Nathan didn't kill. I wish the show would have followed up with him somehow to see how he was doing. Unfortunately, of course that isn't possible anymore...

Im sure this "revelation" is something that was obvious and "duh* to everyone else

I hope Reid didn't fear he was on the verge of becoming an unsub...I mean, it is estimated that about 1% of people have schrizophrenia, so it's not exactly very rare. And the vast  majority of schrizophrenics aren't violent. Maybe combined with his shitty childhood he thought a schrizophrenic break could be disastrous? 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[ReidGirl]

13 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

I was just thinking of something that I think relates to this discussion. Reid feels tremendous empathy for Nathan Harris. If I'm remembering correctly, Nathan Harris had a loving mother and a normal upbringing. His father died, but that isn't enough to turn anyone into an unsub. So, I guess Nathan just turned into a sexual sadist by chance/unlucky genetics/whatever. I'm guessing that Reid felt so much empathy for him because he couldn't choose whether or not to choose to inherit schrizophrenia or not. So, Reid fears his genetics could be controlling his life eventually, similar to Nathan's. Most people can muster up sympathy for an unsub with a horrific childhood, but I'm sure Reid's fear of schrizophrenia also contributed to his sympathy of some people who might have just been born with unfortunate dispositions. I'm not saying people are born killers, as is evident because Nathan didn't kill. I wish the show would have followed up with him somehow to see how he was doing. Unfortunately, of course that isn't possible anymore...

Im sure this "revelation" is something that everybody already knew *duh* lol

Yes I would have loved a followup on Nathan. Also I remember Gideon saying about Nathan after his evaluation that " he would kill, it was just matter of when" or something like that.

[Kara101]

19 minutes ago, ReidGirl said:

Yes I would have loved a followup on Nathan. Also I remember Gideon saying about Nathan after his evaluation that " he would kill, it was just matter of when" or something like that.

Yes, Gideon did say that. But Reid seemed to not believe him. Or maybe just didn't want to believe him.

[ReidFan]

mismatched socks sighting:

[JMO]

The best part about this is that it means JJ knew to bring them to him.

[Kara101]

Okay I finally thought about why this topic has been bothering me so much. The show might make it seem like serial killers are quite common, but in reality they are incredibly, extremely rare. No matter what upbringing you have you are extremely statistically unlikely to become a serial killer. It's just not a "thing" most people have to worry about becoming, no matter what trials you face in life.

So I don't know why Reid would worry so much about becoming one. Unless he was secretly harboring killing fantasies this entire time (which I think is safe to rule out!)

[Willowy]

15 minutes ago, JMO said:

The best part about this is that it means JJ knew to bring them to him.

OH MY GOD! <3

[ReidFan]

pretty sure they're ALL aware about the mismatched socks :)

I wonder if he would've asked her for a particular suit/shirt/tie combo. (although we know BJ Rogers woulda chosen it all...) and I wonder if Matthew wears his own socks or if the Costuming Dept is aware that they have to be mismatched.

or, is it the same suit that he had on for the bail hearing? It woulda been in storage at the prison since he was incarcerated?

glad I could make your day Reid/JJ shippers :)  (I'm in the process of editing screencaps right now. I keep telling myself fewer, yet ever episode it's more. ALready over the 200mark and I have at least two more Reid scenes to do. Shouldn't surprise me I guess, Aubrey was in the last one I overdid too......)

my favourite one so far that isn't from 'WatchMe'

Edited May 12, 2017 by ReidFan
typo

[Complexity]

7 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

Okay I finally thought about why this topic has been bothering me so much. The show might make it seem like serial killers are quite common, but in reality they are incredibly, extremely rare. No matter what upbringing you have you are extremely statistically unlikely to become a serial killer. It's just not a "thing" most people have to worry about becoming, no matter what trials you face in life.

So I don't know why Reid would worry so much about becoming one. Unless he was secretly harboring killing fantasies this entire time (which I think is safe to rule out!)

I never thought Reid was worried about becoming a serial killer. I always thought his concern was that he would have schizophrenia which has a high genetic component to it (and usually shows up in the late teens to early/mid 20s).