S01.E07: 7

[pitchy]

I was curious, too.

That's what they say:

 

Helen: "Listen, I never thanked you."

Alison: "For what?"

Helen: "For what you did for my daughter the day she choked."

Alison: "Oh, it was nothing."

Helen: "No, it wasn't."

 

Thanks for getting that wording!  

[truthaboutluv]

Whether or not a viewer likes or is physically attracted to either member of a fictional romantic couple, or is turned on by their sexual activities, is entirely irrelevant to the plausibility and significance of their relationship.

 

 

For me though, Noah being so unlikable in my opinion and yes, the lack of chemistry does affect my ability to buy into the significance of the relationship. Like I get why Alison would have an affair because she's so buried in grief and why Noah would have an affair because he's felt so emasculated but what I have trouble buying is why necessarily with each other and more particularly on Alison's end, why with the previous episode and this one, would act like she's genuinely in love with Noah or believes herself to be.

 

Like I sort of still buy Noah's actions because I think he's a shitty ass who saw a convenient piece of ass to make him feel less like the loser he sees himself as. But I cannot buy Alison supposedly being in love as her friend claims she is because I've seen nothing to sell me on this relationship, especially considering how much of a douche Noah comes across in my opinion. I find Noah so incredibly unlikable and what's particularly interesting to me is that he's an ass in BOTH versions of what happened.

 

In his version of events he again, consistent with the horny vamp he presented Alison as from day one, puts everything on her and basically calls the entire thing meaningless and frankly without using the words, kind of does reduce her to the summer slut Oscar referred to her as. Which makes her seeming pining in her version just sad and pathetic to me and why I don't buy the notion that he represents the first genuine happiness she supposedly has had in a long time. Alison is seemingly happy in my opinion because I think she briefly saw Noah as an escape from her Montauk existence she hates but nothing I saw in this episode convinces me that guy is saving her from shit. 

 

And in keeping with the Noah is a douche, Alison's version where she's supposedly pining and in love, has him closing his drapes in her face while he embraces his little family and her version also has that incredibly horrible and distasteful moment with Cole. I read all 5 pages of this thread and am amazed at all the judgement on Helen for mentioning Alison being a waitress and even criticism of Cole not liking the city but there was almost nothing about Noah's comment to Cole that he'd take parenting advice from him when he has a teenage son. If this is a true account, he knew Cole was Alison's husband so he knew that he's speaking to a man whose son recently died. Like WTAF and again this is in Alison's memory of a man she's apparently pining for. 

 

one day she's telling Alison how Alison was the one who got them all through the tragedy of Gabriel's death and giving her her wedding ring, now she's telling her how ungrateful she is for all the help they've given her.  Ugh.

 

 

I believe what the mother told Alison is that her strength and how she's managed to survive the tragedy inspired them but it's clear, just from how Alison has come across in some of her memories that she was pretty buried in grief and I can imagine it was way worse right after the son died. Which I imagine is the time Cole was referring to when he told Athena that his mom had to bathe and feed Alison because she was so broken.

 

It bears repeating. Everyone we see through Noah and Alison's are coloured through their perceptions of them. So yeah Helen may be a snob. But that could also be Noah's snobbery coming out, and yeah just because he's teacher who remembers to tip at a restaurant doesn't mean he's not a snob. He could very well be. And it could also be that constant mentions of Alison being a waitress, are Noah's thoughts and he chastising himself for throwing his marriage away.

 

 

This so much. And frankly, a part of me is willing to believe that "she's just a waitress" is partly Noah's own bias based on how he's viewed Alison in so many of his memories of the affair. I can never forget how VASTLY different Noah's version of their first meeting was to Alison's. Alison version had her as the clearly broken, grieving woman just looking for some way to make the pain stop. Noah's version frankly to be blunt, made Alison come across as borderline slutty and a little cheap. So a part of me does wonder if all Helen's "some waitress" is Noah's own bias and snobbery coming through.

 

With regards to the coke dealing, Alison has much of a choice being involved as Cole does. She doesn't get a pass from me for that.

 

 

Not to mention that if you believe Noah's version of things, she most definitely didn't seem manipulated into anything. She came across as fully in control and a little cold and calculating with regards to the drug business. Only in her version, as often is the case in her memories, was she the broken, fragile victim who is just so hurt about her loss she doesn't care what happens to her.

 

I don't even know that it really has to do with Helen being a snob, although it may, I think it's actually fairly human and natural response for someone to take a very dim view of, and look down upon the person who is screwing your spouse....despite that person knowing your spouse is married, with children.

 

 

This. The woman just found out or really had confirmed her husband was banging some woman who incidentally showed up at her store barely a day after they left, so I'm not going to judge her a horrible person if she said something not so nice about her. On top of that, it's not like Alison has been particularly generous to Helen all the time, with her all but insinuating in her version of events that Helen is a horrible mother and she has no reason to be stressed or not perfect with four children because she's rich. So I can't hate Helen for letting her inner bitch out about the woman who was banging her husband.

 

Alison returns to the friend's apartment, where she finds Cole, who claims to need to know who Alison was fucking because that person might have been the one to dig up the now-missing stash.

 

 

I have to say, this scene did deliver one of my favorite lines of the episode, when Alison was all adamant Noah wouldn't take the stash because he's not that kind of person and Cole snapped out, "oh he'd fuck another man's wife but he's too principled to be a thief?"

Edited January 1, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[SlackerInc]

As a former devotee of "In Treatment", I was super excited to see a therapy session, even briefly.

 

Noah should definitely not pay Oscar (or kill him).  I couldn't believe his friend Max didn't point out that Oscar will just keep coming back for more.  Let him tell his wife, then deny.  If she doesn't believe the denial, see if she really wants to break up.  If she does, go get Alison.

 

Oh good, he told her.  (Although that makes me think of another angle he could have tried first: bluffing Oscar by telling him he told Helen.)

 

It's weird, though, watching this now, knowing there is a second season and therefore at least 13 more episodes left.  Seems hard to picture right now how that can work.

 

Mare Winningham is badass, but it should have occurred to her that burning the note would not be helpful to her cause.  It is only going to make Alison more likely to seek Noah out.

 

Obviously empty boxes are obvious (that they do not have pies in them).  But I tweeted at some propmasters this summer to start weighting down their coffee cups, takeout containers, etc., and they seemed amenable...so, fingers crossed that maybe this longtime pet peeve is on the way out in movies and TV.

 

Oscar is an idiot.  He essentially asked to be pummeled into a pulp.

 

Beautiful composition of the shot of Alison and her friend lying down talking, partly because her dress and her friend's tank are awesome prints.

 

It's not that I question the timeline above, it's that I don't understand it. What is the reason for concluding that when Alison walks into Helen's store, it is before Noah's confession? I assumed it occurred after Noah's confession. Helen's behavior struck me as plausibly the behavior of a wife who knows that the "other woman" has just walked into her store, and wants to behave as civilly as possible so as not to create a scene in front of the other customers, yet still get across to the "other woman" that "I know who you are and what you did" and "don't you dare show your face in here again."

 

This is totally how I took it as well.  But subsequent posts ITT have convinced me otherwise.  I wonder if Treem wanted it to seem ambiguous?  Or is she chagrined that it did?

 

But that's why I think the show is called "The Affair" and not "A Love Story"  What we are watching is two people having an affair with all the trappings that come with it.   Noah and Allison aren't in love.  I am not even sure they particularly like each other.  

 

In response to this, I see three possibilities: (1) You are watching it wrong; (2) I'm watching it wrong; (3) Fitting for this show, the truth is fundamentally unknowable and it depends on your perspective.

 

All I know is that I do definitely, unlike most in this thread and in various recaps I've read, see it as a love story--and a swoon-inducing one at that.  (If there's something in later episodes to definitively confirm or deny this, please don't spoil me.)  I also find it frustrating that people always frame affairs as "why did it happen" in terms of these complicated psychological explanations.  Which, admittedly, Noah himself did in explaining it to Helen; but I wonder if that's because he felt she needed a reason, or he has been conditioned to believe that is necessary.

 

IMO they happen because people are not just attracted to one person that they stay with forever.  And I don't think it has to be just about "thinking with your dick" or whatever, either, or having troubles in your marriage.  I don't believe being in love with your wife precludes falling in love with someone else, while still remaining in love with your wife.

[millennium]

What I find puzzling -- and yeah, okay, I'm four years late to the discussion -- is the Lockhart family logic for dealing drugs.

The way it was explained, the Lockharts sell cocaine to offset the ranch's losses, thus enabling them to keep the ranch that has been in the family for seven generations.

Otherwise they would be forced to sell the ranch for $30 million.  

The thing is, if they get caught selling cocaine by the authorities (a likely scenario, as the whole town knows what they're doing), that ranch would automatically be seized as an assets forfeiture.   They would lose it lock, stock and barrel and never see a dime.

How does it make any kind of sense to engage in a risky criminal activity that has a high probability of leaving you with nothing but mortal danger and a long jail sentence when you can legally reap $30 million instead? 

Who would do that?

Noah is a pig and a coward.   He got scared and ran off, scraping off Alison like horseshit from his boot.   Then he tried to blame his wife and her father and anyone else he could think of for cheating on her.   A real quality guy.

I was amused by the mature, low-key reactions of Helen and Cole upon discovering their spouses were cheats and liars.   No angry histrionics, no grand expulsions from the marital bed, no vindictive reprisals against the homewreckers ... just a kind of sad "where did we go wrong?"   As if. 

[janerazor]

On 3/6/2019 at 1:08 AM, millennium said:

What I find puzzling -- and yeah, okay, I'm four years late to the discussion -- is the Lockhart family logic for dealing drugs.

The way it was explained, the Lockharts sell cocaine to offset the ranch's losses, thus enabling them to keep the ranch that has been in the family for seven generations.

Otherwise they would be forced to sell the ranch for $30 million.  

The thing is, if they get caught selling cocaine by the authorities (a likely scenario, as the whole town knows what they're doing), that ranch would automatically be seized as an assets forfeiture.   They would lose it lock, stock and barrel and never see a dime.

How does it make any kind of sense to engage in a risky criminal activity that has a high probability of leaving you with nothing but mortal danger and a long jail sentence when you can legally reap $30 million instead? 

Hi, I'm also four years late. My spouse and I talked about that same thing with the ranch. They have to sell drugs because the ranch isn't profitable, and presumably they want to keep the ranch in the family for the eighth generation. But is the ranch suddenly going to be profitable for the next generation of Lockharts? Aren't they dooming their kids to having to sell drugs too? Which is kind of shitty, right? They could get $30 million right now and live quite comfortably on or off the island. Maybe they could use some of that money to open up a new venture. Maybe something still with horses but smaller and more geared toward the summer season that wouldn't be the financial drain that a full-blown ranch would be. 

That said, this show sucked me in. There are some brilliant moments, and I adore how the shifts in perspectives reveal the personalities and motivations of the characters.

In this episode (I think it was this one), when Alison tells Cole who she had been having the affair with, Cole pauses for a beat and then responds in this incredulous voice, "Martin's dad?" I loved that. From his perspective, Martin is someone he's bonded with a bit and probably has some fatherly feelings toward. Note that both Cole and Noah have similar moments with Martin--i.e., Martin's fake suicide and Martin letting the horse loose and both Cole and Noah telling Martin he has to keep his grades up--so that reinforces Cole's parental role in Martin's life.

To Cole, Martin is a misguided, lonely kid who wants to belong to something, and Noah is just his self-absorbed douche of a father who Cole barely knows. So of course to Cole, Noah is "Martin's dad" and not this brooding writer who has been "researching" all summer with his wife. 

[millennium]

On 3/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, janerazor said:

Hi, I'm also four years late. My spouse and I talked about that same thing with the ranch. They have to sell drugs because the ranch isn't profitable, and presumably they want to keep the ranch in the family for the eighth generation. But is the ranch suddenly going to be profitable for the next generation of Lockharts? Aren't they dooming their kids to having to sell drugs too? Which is kind of shitty, right? They could get $30 million right now and live quite comfortably on or off the island. Maybe they could use some of that money to open up a new venture. Maybe something still with horses but smaller and more geared toward the summer season that wouldn't be the financial drain that a full-blown ranch would be. 

That said, this show sucked me in. There are some brilliant moments, and I adore how the shifts in perspectives reveal the personalities and motivations of the characters.

In this episode (I think it was this one), when Alison tells Cole who she had been having the affair with, Cole pauses for a beat and then responds in this incredulous voice, "Martin's dad?" I loved that. From his perspective, Martin is someone he's bonded with a bit and probably has some fatherly feelings toward. Note that both Cole and Noah have similar moments with Martin--i.e., Martin's fake suicide and Martin letting the horse loose and both Cole and Noah telling Martin he has to keep his grades up--so that reinforces Cole's parental role in Martin's life.

To Cole, Martin is a misguided, lonely kid who wants to belong to something, and Noah is just his self-absorbed douche of a father who Cole barely knows. So of course to Cole, Noah is "Martin's dad" and not this brooding writer who has been "researching" all summer with his wife. 

The show has remained interesting, I'll give it that.   I'm watching episode 10 tonight, I think.

I'm always amused by the slight wardrobe changes in the different versions.    For example, in the early episodes, Alison's hair is always pulled back in her version, while in Noah's it's down around her shoulders.

I'm not sure what Alison and Noah see in each other (I find neither of them so attractive it's worth breaking up families over) other than availability and as a means to escape.  Any port in a storm, so to speak.

[Aqua]

On 11/24/2014 at 2:33 PM, Bcharmer said:

 

While first watching the store scene, I thought it was taking place after Noah confessed, simply by the way Helen was acting. But then I remembered we were watching Alison's version, and remembered that Noah hadn't had his panic attack yet. The timeline became very clear to me then.  Helen might have suspected there was something going on between Noah and Alison, which might have accounted for the way she acted toward Alison in the store, but Noah didn't confess until later. Her not mentioning Alison's visit to the store was interesting, though.  Also, those glasses on Helen... have we seen her wear them before? That was kind of distracting.  

Helen has had Alison on her radar for a long time, perhaps because she keeps turning up, i.e. Butler party, at the ranch, at the Lobster Roll during the lunch with "Uncle" Max (not unusual as she works there), plus that question after Oscar's comment ("Ditch Plains"), so having her walk into the store was kind of the last straw and I rather expected a confrontation but she kept herself in check. I think the glasses signify, since we are in Alison's POV, that she sees her rival as having a kind of bookish, nerdy quality.

Edited January 2, 2021 by ReviewX

[Aqua]

On 11/24/2014 at 5:13 PM, panthergirl13 said:

Even the dialogue has become cartoonish on both sides (I started to laugh when Noah was approached by Oscar about the affair and the money...it was so stupid. "I don't know what you're talking about! Oh wait, $10K? Yeah ok.")

 

 

I'm not sure why Noah thought even for a minute that 10k would make Oscar go away. Somebody like that is going to grate into you like an infected splinter until you're destroyed. He was wise to neutralize his threat by telling Helen as she was getting wind of it anyway.

[Aqua]

On 11/24/2014 at 9:17 PM, Sage47 said:

And I don't care how well lit a street is. People inside in a bright room would not be able to look out and zero in on one face, across the street no less. Furthermore, if somehow Noah did notice Alison, wouldn't he be totally freaked out that she was stalking him?!  I just couldn't find that believable that he could see her out there. But I second the poster here that said Alison imagined that he could because of her guilt in being outside. I hope that's what it was meant to portray.

It is possible that Alison is conveniently standing under a streetlamp, which would make her visible. But why would Noah suddenly look out the window and see her there? If she wasn't there, what plausible reason does he have for suddenly wanting the curtains closed during the family hug? Are the curtains usually closed but since they just got back in town 24 hours ago they are uncommonly open?  That was puzzling.

[Aqua]

On 11/24/2014 at 9:42 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

Yet, it is in Alison's story that we see him go to The End and ask for the name "Soloway." If not a third party POV, how would Alison know that happened? Assumption? Or would the receptionist at The End have told her?

This is one of the examples why this Rashomon-style he said/she said convention doesn't really work. We are left having no idea if any of it is "what really happened," which I find supremely frustrating.

[Aqua]

On 11/25/2014 at 8:08 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

Was the receptionist bought off by Noah? Perhaps but there is still the lingering question of why the detective didn't also ask for the names Bailey or Lockhart. 

 

And why would he take her word for it? Seems it's time to get a warrant.

[Aqua]

On 11/25/2014 at 12:00 PM, jrlr said:

I want to know what was in the note from Noah to Alison that Cherry burned.  Personally, I wish Alison had gone all Sons of Anarchy on that bitch and stuck a fork in her head.  I HATE that character - one day she's telling Alison how Alison was the one who got them all through the tragedy of Gabriel's death and giving her her wedding ring, now she's telling her how ungrateful she is for all the help they've given her.  Ugh.

I despise the entire Lockhart family. They are annoyingly similar to the Ewings, always preaching family honor despite being involved in deplorable business dealings. I particularly hate Cherry, who doesn't even have the warmth of Miss Ellie. Telling the story of Cole in his wayward stroller (and her maternal intuition that her son was in danger) to a woman who lost her son in an accident was an evil shiv to the heart, especially when it was meant specifically to hurt and as a basis for her to then go all mama-bear protector to her precious Cole. I wanted to shoot her on the spot. If I were Alison I would have let lose verbally and certainly would have tackled that old bat right there in the kitchen before I allowed her to burn up that note on the stove flame.

[Aqua]

On 11/25/2014 at 7:46 PM, HumblePi said:

I had mentioned that I had a suspicion that the two interviews were done in two different time spans for two different deaths.

The Noah interview appears to take place around 10 years in the future. In one episode during a break from the interview he is on the phone with his son Trevor about his "thesis," making him possibly a college freshman, whereas in the present time he is around 8 years old.

[Aqua]

On 11/26/2014 at 9:58 AM, GussieK said:

The scene about the Vanity Fair profile was hilarious.  Loved learning that Dad's work was ghost edited by Mom, and he'd been torturing Noah on false pretenses.  What a tool, and Noah rightly earned the right to savor it.

I wonder if this was the inspiration for the great Glenn Close movie, "The Wife"?