All Episodes Talk: S02 Vengeance

[green]

I liked how Gannicus brought a third pov to the revolt.  Feeling compassion for the innocents caught up in it like the prostitute he liked that got crucified.  Also LOL at "Mothman".  Yeah that was a nice little visual.  And leaving behind his rudus in one of the guards for good measure. 

 

Yes Gannicus has chosen his side but he doesn't believe in it knowing more the ultimate power of Rome from his wanderings these past years.  And he is tired of the endless personal vengeance stuff that keeps getting other people killed.  Get realistic about fighting Rome and start forming an army yourself as opposed to the endless "Glaber did me wrong" or kill Ilithyia (who certainly deserves it in her own right) wife-for-wife and be done with this personal vengeance trip then flee and scatter the best you can seems to be what he is saying to Spartacus.  Well actually he just wants option two but Spartacus should see option one as an alternative from his pov anyway.  Cause Gannicus has no real belief in what a rebel army can do against Rome.

 

Naevia is starting to heal and that is good to see.  If anyone has a right to personal vengeance against Rome it is her but she is all about the cause.  Spartacus, take notes from Naevia.

 

And yeah Agron was more than happy to select the German slaves ship wasn't he.  "Well yeah there was one full of Gauls but ya know I just thought the ship with the Germans might be better to take (cough)."    And a rather unruly bunch until Spartacus took out the gigantic guy that threatened Naevia.  Then they were all "he killed big dude, we follow killer of big dude."  Well I guess they aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer but rebels can't be choosers.  And Saxsa (sp?) adds another trained female fighter to the cast mix.

 

Yeah I agree it is tough viewing regards Ashur and Lucretia.  As if we don't have a neon sign flashing in the background already saying "slimeball" every time he is on screen already.  I do think the writers go too far at times.  But at least this time knocked open Ashur's little treasure box and the double serpent bracelet spills out unto the floor in front of Lucretia.  Of course she could have just checked the box out when she was alone some time too.  Rape wasn't needed to reveal the bracelet.

[green]

A little off topic:  I think the inspiration for a supply wagon full of arms comes from history.  But not with the commander of the opposing forces presenting it as a gift to the rebels.  That was silly to even imagine.

 

Anyway I found a site with the little left to us of Roman histories on the revolt.  Can't find it again now unfortunately or I'd leave a link.  In it it states that the revolt in the ludus started in the kitchen area (like the 1960 film version had it start) and 400 gladiator rose up and 74 (72??) of them made it past the guards and over the wall to freedom armed only with kitchen knives and clevers they seized during the uprising.   (Don't know what happened to the remaining 300+.  Whether they were re-captured failing to get over the walls or killed or wounded or a little of all three).  If Roman militia troops had tracked them down right away the revolt would have been stillborn.  But the historians say that "fortune smiled upon the gladiators" in that less than 24 hours later they came across a lone supply wagon along a forested road.  Inside it was filled with newly forged gladiator weapons and armor bound for one of the ludus' in Capua.  Which one we will never know but it would be funny as anything if it had been meant for Batiatus'.

 

Also that about a week after that they came across another single supply wagon and attacked and looted it.  It was filled with a nice upgrade of stronger and better legionnaire weapons and armor and shields.  Without those two supply wagons the revolt may well have ended before it even began.  So when I saw this episode I was thinking about the other two real supply wagons instead in some ways.

 

And yes that was 400 gladiators revolting.  Production cost gave us only a micro version of what the real Batiatus' ludus would have been like.  But you need micro versions of this stuff to get to know characters and personalities so it is all good.

 

Anyway here we get instead the giant ex-gladiator "The Egyptian" storming out and knocking Agron flying and almost killing Crixus.  That dude is bad news.  Lucius couldn't even slow him down before he came over and killed poor Lucius.  Too bad.  I liked him as a character and having a Roman on the rebels' side and having an older guy in the mix.  More diversity.  Well he outlived the dictator, Sulla, who destroyed his fortune originally anyway.  So there is that.

 

Well Lucretia is in a batting slump with her plotting of late.  Didn't go well last episode and this one wasn't going all too well either.  It was a little easier when she was in a tag team with Batiatus.  Though it looks like she finally got back in the groove some with showing Seppia the double serpent bracelet.  Even an empty-headed idiot like Seppia got the message.

 

Naevia is looking wicked good with her sword.  Even gave Crixus a bloody nose.  And with self-confidence comes self-worth again and the ability to get a bit closer to Crixus in other ways.

 

I liked that Gannicus volunteered not because he believes in the cause but that Oenomaus, who can't go but who wants to go, does.  Oenomaus, give the dude a break.

[bychance]

Ashur didn't tell Oenamaus that Melitta and Gannicus were originally forced to have sex. 

 

Speaking of Ashur's gang, the guy who played Gnaeus is in it.  He was also Liam MacIntyre's stunt double.  

 

Also, the guy who got his head stomped on in the bar was the same guy who played Caberus who Gannicus slew at the end of GOTA.  He was the big guy who got his lower jaw torn off.

 

A lot of people, especially guys, hated the way Naevia was written and played after GOTA.  It's almost like they thought the writers would have come up with a completely different storyline for her if Lesley Ann Brandt had stayed.

 

Its not almost, that is exactly what they tried to push. I've read many tweets making this claim this to Steven DeKnight, the man who created the character himself. Their rational was the character was changed "to fit the new actress" -- which is absolutely absurd, because 1) Lesley Ann Brandt literally quit a month before filming 2) The casting call for Naevia simply said "slave girl" with no other detail.

 

Wow, that's harsh.  I think the character of Naevia is a tricky one to develop, but they're doing a decent job with writing her and the actress is doing a fine job.  I haven't seen anything beyond what we're getting on Syfy, but I can't imagine that anything in the unedited versions would warrant that kind of hatred towards her.  

 

 

They disliked Naevia 2 because they didn't think she was as pretty as the old one. Its hard to believe that people could get that angry about something so petty, but people not finding her good looking enough was really the source of all the hate.

 

I remember in 2011 when they announced the new Naevia actress. They hated her before she even appeared on screen. They bashed her looks and said she was ugly, hideous and other derogatory words. I've collected a sample of it here, which believe it or not isn't really the tip of the iceberg (if you can imagine) since IMDb, the worst place, doesn't archive back more than a few months.

 

You'll see a lot of "the good Naevia" "the pretty Naevia" and other childish things to describe the first actress. I thought it was stupid then and stupid now. Not only is it ridiculously shallow, but shows what a non character she was in Blood and Sand. Its also extremely sexist. No one would ever say Terrence Howard was better as James Rohdes than Don Cheadle because he's better looking.

 

First season to me Naevia was too much shown as a mere plot device in the Crixus/Lucretia/Naevia storyline to move Crixus's development along.  Not a real person in and of herself.  But now she is showing the first glimmerings of coming back from a fate worse than death and coming into her own.

 

 

 

I find I prefer Naevia 2 as well. I don't know if it has to do with the actress. Like you said, Naevia 1 was sort of a background character. She was there for Crixus to fall in love with. In Gods of the Arena, she took backstage to Diona. (Nothing against Diona, she was a well written/acted character.) Naevia 2 seems to be more of a character, especially now that she's learning to fight. It was in this season that she really got my attention.

 

That's exactly how I feel. I wrote a lengthy essay on the two Naevias (spoilers for War of the Damned) here if anyone is interested in reading that touches on this in detail.

Edited October 29, 2014 by bychance

[bychance]

Not cool, Agron.  Might be for the "greater good" but each person has a right to decide what the greater good is and, like Spartacus said, if one person no longer matters then who matters.  Good of Nasir to tell Crixus the truth and volunteer to go along and help too.

 

Welcome new actor who plays Naevia this season.  Read the original had another project and instead of just changing the script and killing off Naevia between seasons the writers kept the character around and found a good, competent replacement actor for the character.  Good for them.  Nice tender moment from the usually macho Crixus in the mines when he finds her too.

 

Well, that's the PR version, lol. The original actress made a plea for more money (or else she would leave to pursue other projects). Since Spartacus already had to be recast because of Whitfield's sickness, she/her management probably figured, well theres no way would they want to have another recast on their hands. Well it didn't work because STARZ didn't come to an agreement, and so she left.

 

http://www.thewrap.com/tv/column-post/lesley-ann-brandt-would-stay-spartacus-price-24836/

 

Its funny because the new actress was not only a more capable actor, but she ended up having more chemistry with Manu Bennett/Crixus, to which now they're friends in real life. So Naevia 1 not renewing her contract actually turned out to be a great thing!

 

I was worried that the reunion scene in the mines wouldn't hold the same feeling with a new Naevia, but they pulled it off effortlessly, despite Manu having never worked with her before. At this point, I did not even see her as a replacement because she became Naevia so quickly (whereas Liam had a bit of trouble in the earlier episodes of Vengeance). 

Edited October 29, 2014 by bychance

[ElleryAnne]

They disliked Naevia 2 because they didn't think she was as pretty as the old one.

 

 

They're blind, then.  Cynthia's gorgeous.  (Leslie is very pretty, too.  But I can't imagine anyone hating the second Naevia on the basis of looks.)

 

That's exactly how I feel. I wrote a lengthy essay on the two Naevias (spoilers for War of the Damned) here if anyone is interested in reading that touches on this in detail.

 

 

I'll have to remember to read that after I see the rest of the episodes.  

At least I know Naevia survives this season. ;)

 

[bychance]

They're blind, then.  Cynthia's gorgeous.  (Leslie is very pretty, too.  But I can't imagine anyone hating the second Naevia on the basis of looks.)

 

 

I'll have to remember to read that after I see the rest of the episodes.  

At least I know Naevia survives this season. ;)

 

 

That's what I'm saying! I remember thinking, are these people blind?

 

And sadly it really is the reason: http://imgur.com/a/wJUFn

[Meushell]

Spartacus has to once again use his leadership skills to convince his band of rebels to unite against the Roman assault. Lucretia struggles to get rid of those men standing in the way of her fate.

[Meushell]

When a shortage in supplies has the rebellion about to fail, Spartacus tries his best to give his men hope.

[ElleryAnne]

Good episode.  I was uneasy from the moment they saw the signal in the distance.  Apparently I've gotten very attached to Spartacus' band of rebels, because I was really worried for them all.  (More on that in the finale thread. Maybe.  I'm still reeling from it.)

 

And the first part of the episode was good, too.  Spartacus was quite clever setting up his contests among the gladiators.  Of course, Crixus and Agron would have to fight together.  Heh.  And with Oenomaus and Gannicus against them, at that.  

 

Mira being supportive of Naevia was sweet. 

 

The guy - Lugo? - who keeps calling Nasir "little man" isn't much bigger than he is.  At least when Agron was doing it, it made some sense because he's more than half-a-foot taller than Nasir.  Lugo, not so much.

 

I still don't think much of Seppia, but she was less annoying this week than last.  I liked the exchange with Lucretia:

Seppia:  My old boyfriend is mad at me.

Lucretia:  Poor baby, I know.  And your new boyfriend killed your brother. 

Seppia:  I know, right?  He's such a creep!

Lucretia:  There, there, poor baby.  Here's a knife.  Go kill him.  It'll make you feel better.

 

Of course, then Ilithyia tosses another wrench in that plan.  You know, if at any time in their relationship Lucretia and Ilithyia had actually worked together instead of just pretending to all the time, they could have ruled the world.

 

Glaber is a piece of work.  Seppia's all, "But we're still mourning for your wife (and my brother who you killed, you SOB),"  and Glaber's basically, "Huh? Oh, I barely remember her.  Let's get jiggy."   It's been what, twenty minutes probably since he sent Spartacus away and wrote Ilithyia off as dead?  Even if he didn't love her, did he have to be so callous about the death of what he considered to be his unborn child?   And then Ilithyia shows up, kills Seppia and says, "Let's hate on other people now instead of each other.  Do me, yeah?"  So he does.   What a guy.

 

And just when I get used to the amount of blood in these battles, they introduce fire.  Thanks, show. Eep.

[ElleryAnne]

OMFG, that finale.

 

My reactions as the episode ran were roughly:  No!  Not Mira!  Followed by Whoa, Naevia, way to take back your life.   Followed by Oh, no! Not Oenomaus!!  Not him, too!  Followed by Freakin' hell, Lucretia, WTF.  Followed by, Yeah, Spartacus!  And I may have done more swearing than Agron along the way.

 

Somewhere in there I did a head count, made sure Crixus, Naevia, Agron and Nasir were still alive at the end of the episode, and finally took a breath for the first time in about seventy-five minutes.  Glad to see Gannicus made it through alive, too.  I've grown more fond of him this season.  I lost track of a couple of the others during the fighting, but I guess I'll see next week if they survived.

 

Right now I'm reeling from Lucretia going over the edge with the baby, and that visual of Ilithyia crawling towards her before she does.  Surreal and creepy.

 

Goodbye, Ashur.  You were an interesting villain, but your time had come.  Serves you right for your arrogant comment when Naevia was just about out of strength.  But you were doomed as soon as you showed up on the mountain.  If Naevia didn't kill you, Crixus would.  No doubt about that.

 

I'm so sad we lost Oenomaus and Mira.  I really thought they'd be around for the final season.  And very sorry to lose Lucretia, too.  I love LL, and Lucretia's been around since the first ep of the first season and all through all three seasons.  It's hard to picture the show without her.

Edited October 31, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[Ohwell]

You've pretty much covered it all; I have nothing to add. : )

[Ohwell]

I had a bad feeling that Oenomaus wouldn't make it out alive, but I loved the final bromance scene between him and Gannicus. 

 

I felt so bad for poor Mira, who died knowing that, while Spartacus cared for her, he didn't really love her.  She was the ultimate ride or die chick, and I was sad watching her die.  

 

Ashur should have known better than to gloat over a woman with his family jewels near her face.  Naevia got him good and I loved it!

[Badger]

In the original airing, many people did not like that Naevia killed Ashur because they thought the idea that she had suddenly become such a good fighter was unrealistic.  But she didn't beat him because she was a better fighter, she beat him because he hesitated to gloat and she took her opportunity.  Kind of the way he did with Dagan and Oenamaus (back in the Season 1 finale when he asked him to kill him as if he were a gladiator in the arena).

 

As for Mira, I think Spartacus did love her, but he was never going to love her the way he loved Sura and that's what she wanted.  

[Ohwell]

Maybe Spartacus did love her "in his own way," but Mira knew that she could never take the place of his wife.  That's why I was sad for Mira.

 

Also, Spartacus was angry with her for trying to kill Illythia, and I think Mira thought he might have even been in love with Illythia since she was carrying his child. 

Edited November 1, 2014 by Ohwell

[green]

I agree, ElleryAnne, did cover if really well.  Really enjoyed the Seppia/Lucretia dialogue, haha.

 

This episode seemed more about setting up the finale then being a classic episode itself.  Off two of the more minor Romans this season -- Seppia and Varinius -- so it isn't a total bloodbath saved for the finale.

 

The bonding by making bickering gladiators fight together moment was good.

 

Speaking of bonding, nothing like a little blood flowing to get Glaber and Ilithyia all hot and bothered for each other again.  They are sure to get the coveted Roman Power Couple of the Year award now.  Except there is this next episode coming up so ... maybe not.

[green]

First, historical factoid of the week.  When I first saw this on the downloads this summer I was thinking, yeah really, vines down a long cliff?  Writers are losing me with this fantasy stuff.  But turns out it is historically accurate.  Except that in history ALL the rebels went down the vines and not just four stellar "gods of the arena" dudes.  Guess in real history the Romans didn't waste time guarding/watching a giant cliff face that no one could possibly get down ... except when they actually did.

 

Also when I first saw the episode I was pretty shocked by the loss of Mira then Oenomaus.  I shall miss them going into the last season though not miss trying to remember how to spell Oenomaus.  Or Ilithyia for that matter.  At least Oenomaus was a real gladiator and one of only four mentioned by name by Roman historians along with Spartacus, Crixus and Gannicus.  So that difficult spelling I could accept.  But Ilithyia?  Why not Julia or Marcia or Lucia or something easy.

 

Speaking of the Romans twas a total clear out of the lot along with their slimeball toady in the finale.  Along with Ilithyia we see that Lucretia lost her mind, Ashur lost his head and Glaber was left literally speechless.  So the final season -- Spartacus: War of the Damned -- will have a total Roman re-set and re-boot.  Enough with the junior varsity level generals.  Next season the Roman varsity team will show up.

 

Too bad they couldn't keep Lucy Lawless in the cast but Lucretia & Batiatus are now happily raising Spartacus Junior in the afterlife.  Or not.  Any afterlife those two might end up in probably would not allow innocent babies in that zone.  On the other hand I'm sure Ilithyia and Glaber will be their neighbors.  Time for the sequel:  Romans in Hades.

 

Too bad those original Starz posters cited above that didn't like Naevia killing Ashur, and who are probably the same that didn't like Naevia 2 from the get go as mentioned last week, will always reside in their parents' basement living on Fritos and Doctor Peppers while having their Elf Lords die at the hands of Level 3 wild boars.  (Hey I love computer games but there seems to be a certain minority subset of chiefly teenage boys that viewed Spartacus on Starz who seem to be of the same ilk as the "Gamergate" types.  They can't handle strong, independent women in either real life or in any media form).

 

And do they think any of the combat shown in Spartacus is even remotely realistic?   Like gladiators leaping in the air 6 feet and spiting a gallon of blood out of their mouths in slo-mo while still sporting a full set of Crest extra white teeth the next scene is realistic?  This version of Spartacus is not in the naturalistic genre.  It is in the fantasy/mythic one of the 300 movie.  Not my favorite genre but it is the one they are using so in this genre it is far far more "realistic" that Naevia can kill Ashur by stabbing him where it hurts the most then finishing him off in three chops then Gannicus becoming "Mothman" (still love that moniker, ElleryAnne) or Spartacus launching himself skyward off of Crixus' shield to take out a whole balcony full of Romans at the ludus.  So in my book, Naevia rocks!

 

Now, on to War of the Damned and the new cast of Roman incompetents as well as some varsity grade opponents.

Edited November 3, 2014 by green

[bychance]

In the original airing, many people did not like that Naevia killed Ashur because they thought the idea that she had suddenly become such a good fighter was unrealistic.  But she didn't beat him because she was a better fighter, she beat him because he hesitated to gloat and she took her opportunity.  Kind of the way he did with Dagan and Oenamaus (back in the Season 1 finale when he asked him to kill him as if he were a gladiator in the arena).

 

As for Mira, I think Spartacus did love her, but he was never going to love her the way he loved Sura and that's what she wanted.  

 

Lol was there anything they didn't complain about regarding Naevia? I remember rolling my eyes at that criticism. She clearly wasn't winning most of the fight.

 

And like Green said, there was Kill Bill levels of blood spurting out of bodies and Gannicus fighting (and winning) several men blindfolded. People only suddenly care about realism when the character is female.

[Meushell]

It still amuses me. They rescue a bunch of people from a ship that Agron reported on, and they just happen to be German. Lol. The Syfy version cut it out, but he does mention that the non-German/non-Gaul ship wasn't picked because the people there (I forgot what they were) were bad fighters. Spartacus seems to agree with that assessment, or at least, he didn't argue against it.

 

Also, welcome Saxa. You amuse me more with each viewing. For those who do not know, she is the female blonde German.

 

I really enjoy the way the Germans vs. Everyone Else was handled. I can see it from the POV of Agron and Spartacus.

 

From Spartacus POV, Agron withheld information, and his hated of the Gaul's is well known, and look, they just rescued a whole bunch of Germans...who are clearly following Agron, and speaking in a language Spartacus and the others don't understand. Could they be plotting? I admit, even I was wondering if Agron might be up to something more.

 

From Agron's POV, he and Duro were the first recruits to this rebellion. Agron has been loyal ever since. He just wants to enjoy being with his people again, and it's got to be pretty damn insulting that Spartacus is even questioning his motives.

 

Okay, I'm officially done with Ilithyia.  Letting her slave be crucified was just too much.  I get that Ilithyia has gotten herself into an awkward position, and that the villa types don't really understand that the slaves are as human as the Romans are and have as much right to live, but damn.  There's a line, and she crossed it when she stood there silently and let that poor girl be killed.  And by crucifixion, no less.  That is a horrible way to die, slow and tortuously painful.   (And yeah, I remember her ordering the doors closed when the massacre was going on.  But this felt worse.)

 

And Ashur - his use of rape as punishment for Lucretia last week was horrible enough, but now with giving her the red wig to wear,  I don't even.   Is he just demented now?  Does he think she has feelings for him - other than wanting him dead, that is?   I honestly no longer know whether half the people in that villa are sane.

 

I said before that I was impressed with how they handled the PTSD aspects of Naevia's rape and abuse in the mines and I am, but now with Lucretia being raped regularly - this season is really playing up the treatment of women.  I have mixed feelings on it, because on the one hand, it's starting to feel exploitative. (Don't ask me why now, after two seasons of assorted rape and consent issues.  And in a show that's all about sex and violence anyway, maybe I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does.  Maybe it's the fact that it's part of two significant character stories now, rather than a part of the times and setting.) On the other hand those times probably were that bad.  And the writing/directing doesn't seem to be trying to be titillating with the subject, at least in the version I'm seeing on Syfy.  I don't know if the unedited version does.  

 

Anyway, they're recognizing it as something traumatic.  I was angry when they wrote Melitta and Gannicus' rape as a lead-in for a romance, so while I think the stuff with Lucretia and Ashur is taking the theme past the point of story-telling and into the realm of exploitation, at least I'll admit they're handling it well as far as showing it as an ugly experience.  And I'm pretty sure Lucretia's not going to be falling for Ashur.  (I haven't seen future episodes/seasons beyond anything currently airing on Syfy, but I think I'm safe in speculating there.)  

 

I did love Lucretia trying to get Gannicus to do her dirty work.  And of course she was planning to kill him afterward.  Of course.  At least he seemed to be smart enough not to trust her.  Still, I wasn't sure what he was up to when he was going all Mothman in the moonlight.   I was surprised he chose to kidnap Ilithyia.

 

 

As for the gladiators/slaves:

 

I loved the gladiators' mission at the beginning, to get the new slaves from the ship.  Luckily, those guards weren't good at their job, because the gladiators weren't exactly well-hidden on that little dock.  

 

Agron's a good fighter, but he's not very bright.  He should have realized that someone in charge might possibly speak the language of the slaves. 

 

I like how Agron was just a big fraternity guy around, but when he saw the one guy hurting Naevia he immediately went to stop the guy.  And then there's Crixus watching them fight, perfectly content to see Agron getting thrown down the steps and beat up, until he catches Naevia's eye and pieces together what must have happened and goes after the guy himself.  Great scene.  I like both Agron and Crixus more and more each week.  And Agron leading his people in swearing loyalty to Spartacus was nice.

 

Not enough of Mira or Nasir in this ep.  But I noticed that when the big lunchroom brawl 'o' slaves started, they both joined in.  I think Nasir actually growled when he threw himself into the mix.

 

Though Ilithyia has many faults, I seriously doubt she could have done anything to save Thessela (the slave). Thesseia was  doomed the moment Glaber decided to have her killed. If Ilithyia had spoken up, Glaber still would have killed Thessela, and I imagine, to make his point, he would have had the rest of her body slaves killed as well.

 

Yes, the PTSD/rape plots are handled well, and the other versions didn't try to make it sexual. Part of me wonders if it is in response to how rape was dealt with/viewed in Season 1. A lot of viewers didn't take it seriously. It could just be part of the show ramping it up each season.

 

The Naevia/Sedullus/Agron/Crixus scene was handled well. Something I didn't catch in first viewing, Nemetes does a bit of a mention on what Sedullus is like when drunk. His comment is basically ignored, and then later we see that Sedullus really shouldn't get drunk.

 

With the Agron lead... When this episode first aired, a people noticed he hits his right side instead of his left. A few people thought it was a sign that he wasn't really committed. However, the guy who plays Agron, Dan Feuerriegel has a pacemaker. I admit, I don't know much about pacemakers, but I'm guessing it's probably best not to repeatedly hit right over the thing.

[Meushell]

I get Gannicus' frustration. He gave up his freedom to try to end this thing, and it's got to be frustrating that Spartacus won't just kill Illiythia and be done with it. Still, I don't think he really thought this one through. You can't just capture a (as far as they both know) innocent woman, give her off to be killed, and think the other guy is going to be all "Okay. *Stabby stab* Rebellion over."

 

The wagon scene had be worried for Agron. My mind was like, "Nooooooooo!" the first time I watched this scene. Thankfully, his plot armor seems to be thicker than Lucius'.

 

As for the Egyptian, I admit, as I watch the show more, I like him more. However, the scene of him taking arrows while advancing on Lucius still annoys me. I think I'd be less annoyed if he was just catching them, Xena-style. Maybe taking one hit. Come on. He has thick unearned plot armor. Even Ashur has earned it more than this guy.

[Meushell]

Good episode.  I was uneasy from the moment they saw the signal in the distance.  Apparently I've gotten very attached to Spartacus' band of rebels, because I was really worried for them all.  (More on that in the finale thread. Maybe.  I'm still reeling from it.)

 

And the first part of the episode was good, too.  Spartacus was quite clever setting up his contests among the gladiators.  Of course, Crixus and Agron would have to fight together.  Heh.  And with Oenomaus and Gannicus against them, at that.  

 

Mira being supportive of Naevia was sweet. 

 

The guy - Lugo? - who keeps calling Nasir "little man" isn't much bigger than he is.  At least when Agron was doing it, it made some sense because he's more than half-a-foot taller than Nasir.  Lugo, not so much.

 

I still don't think much of Seppia, but she was less annoying this week than last.  I liked the exchange with Lucretia:

Seppia:  My old boyfriend is mad at me.

Lucretia:  Poor baby, I know.  And your new boyfriend killed your brother. 

Seppia:  I know, right?  He's such a creep!

Lucretia:  There, there, poor baby.  Here's a knife.  Go kill him.  It'll make you feel better.

 

Of course, then Ilithyia tosses another wrench in that plan.  You know, if at any time in their relationship Lucretia and Ilithyia had actually worked together instead of just pretending to all the time, they could have ruled the world.

 

Glaber is a piece of work.  Seppia's all, "But we're still mourning for your wife (and my brother who you killed, you SOB),"  and Glaber's basically, "Huh? Oh, I barely remember her.  Let's get jiggy."   It's been what, twenty minutes probably since he sent Spartacus away and wrote Ilithyia off as dead?  Even if he didn't love her, did he have to be so callous about the death of what he considered to be his unborn child?   And then Ilithyia shows up, kills Seppia and says, "Let's hate on other people now instead of each other.  Do me, yeah?"  So he does.   What a guy.

 

And just when I get used to the amount of blood in these battles, they introduce fire.  Thanks, show. Eep.

 

It's fun to watch the reactions of people being set up. "Yeah! We finally get to fight! Oh, with each other. Damn." Also enjoy how Oenomaus is all approving, then his match is set up. Lol. He's basically like, "Damn. Should have seen that one coming."

 

Also fun to watch Agron fighting Oenomaus. Aww, Agron, I love you, but you don't stand a chance.

 

I really enjoy the Mira/Naevia scenes. I really wish we had more friendship scenes besides Spartacus his immediate leaders. The Mira/Naevia scene seemed almost cut off. I realize we don't really need to see Mira explaining what we already know, but it would have been nice to see Naevia give some support. I assume she did.

 

Okay, I looked it up. Nasir is 5'8". Lugo is 5'9". (Agron is 6'2".) Lugo is a lot wider than Nasir though, so I wonder how they compare in weight. However, now that you mention it, I wonder if having the shortest male German calling Nasir "Little Man" was an intentional joke.

 

I assume Lucretia and Illiythia plotted Seppia's death together, but I don't really know. If they did, then it shows how great they can be together. Like you say, imagine if they worked together since they met? Ruling the world, indeed.

 

 

I agree, ElleryAnne, did cover if really well.  Really enjoyed the Seppia/Lucretia dialogue, haha.

 

This episode seemed more about setting up the finale then being a classic episode itself.  Off two of the more minor Romans this season -- Seppia and Varinius -- so it isn't a total bloodbath saved for the finale.

 

The bonding by making bickering gladiators fight together moment was good.

 

Speaking of bonding, nothing like a little blood flowing to get Glaber and Ilithyia all hot and bothered for each other again.  They are sure to get the coveted Roman Power Couple of the Year award now.  Except there is this next episode coming up so ... maybe not.

 

The death of Varinius was a surprise. Historically, didn't he go after Spartacus after Glaber did? Then "Boom." Nope, he's dead. Also, it kind of amuses me that the catapults seemed to largely hit the Romans. Was Glaber aiming for the big red capes? Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he was. "Aim for the fools working for Varinius." I have the voice of Edna from The Incredibles in my head now, saying "No capes!"

[Meushell]

OMFG, that finale.

My reactions as the episode ran were roughly: No! Not Mira! Followed by Whoa, Naevia, way to take back your life. Followed by Oh, no! Not Oenomaus!! Not him, too! Followed by Freakin' hell, Lucretia, WTF. Followed by, Yeah, Spartacus! And I may have done more swearing than Agron along the way.

Somewhere in there I did a head count, made sure Crixus, Naevia, Agron and Nasir were still alive at the end of the episode, and finally took a breath for the first time in about seventy-five minutes. Glad to see Gannicus made it through alive, too. I've grown more fond of him this season. I lost track of a couple of the others during the fighting, but I guess I'll see next week if they survived.

Right now I'm reeling from Lucretia going over the edge with the baby, and that visual of Ilithyia crawling towards her before she does. Surreal and creepy.

Goodbye, Ashur. You were an interesting villain, but your time had come. Serves you right for your arrogant comment when Naevia was just about out of strength. But you were doomed as soon as you showed up on the mountain. If Naevia didn't kill you, Crixus would. No doubt about that.

I'm so sad we lost Oenomaus and Mira. I really thought they'd be around for the final season. And very sorry to lose Lucretia, too. I love LL, and Lucretia's been around since the first ep of the first season and all through all three seasons. It's hard to picture the show without her.

Is it possible to swear more than Agron? :)

Lol. I'm a lot like you in where I'm like "Did the couples survive? Oh, good, they did. Phew!."

Fun fact. The blood from Illithyia's death was added later. When it first aired, so many fans were "Did she die?" so they added the blood to show that "Yes, she died."

Haha. The scene with Ashur was great.

Ashur: Okay. I have the message. I'm going. Maybe they won't attack. I'm going. They are letting me go.

Crixus: *Speaks up*

Ashur: Fuck.

You could really see it on Ashur's face. His taunt of Naevia was actually a little longer. I can't say I really blame him, as much as I hate him. He knew he was dead as soon as he killed her. He was probably desperately trying to come up with a way out of it.

Another thing cut from the SyFy version, when they all mention killing him, Ashur does basically ask Spartacus about it, hoping he'll let him go. Spartacus is fine with Crixus' plan to send his head though.

Anyway, getting back to the fight...back in Blood and Sand, when Crixus approached Naevia about "Hey, it's hard to cut off a man's head in one blow." I thought, "You idiot! She doesn't care about your bragging about killing people!" Turned out to be a great scene, since after the fight she turns to him and is all "Yes, it is hard to cut off a man's head in one blow."

First, historical factoid of the week. When I first saw this on the downloads this summer I was thinking, yeah really, vines down a long cliff? Writers are losing me with this fantasy stuff. But turns out it is historically accurate. Except that in history ALL the rebels went down the vines and not just four stellar "gods of the arena" dudes. Guess in real history the Romans didn't waste time guarding/watching a giant cliff face that no one could possibly get down ... except when they actually did.

This is one of those times that history spoiled me. I knew about the vine climbing before ever seeing the episode. It kind of made it fun though because I was just waiting for the vines to be introduced. I was surprised they only had four guys climb down though.

Oenomaus death was another one where history spoiled it for me. I didn't know when he'd die, but I knew he was the first leader to die, and I really wasn't expecting him to survive the season. I was actually pleasantly surprised he survived as long as he did. I spent a lot of time worrying about him all season. Lol.

Speaking of Oenomaus, the scene of him coming up and giving that "No warrior is too weak or too injured to fight" line was great. I mean, really, who can argue against a guy who just lost an eye? I mean, not just that, let's face it, Oenomaus hasn't had much of a chance to recover. He nearly fought to death. Then he was tortured. Then he was seriously injured. Just when he starts fighting again, and probably not at his full potential health, he has his hand and eye stabbed (with the knife twisting! Ewwwwww!).

Lol was there anything they didn't complain about regarding Naevia? I remember rolling my eyes at that criticism. She clearly wasn't winning most of the fight.

And like Green said, there was Kill Bill levels of blood spurting out of bodies and Gannicus fighting (and winning) several men blindfolded. People only suddenly care about realism when the character is female.

Sadly, no. Not only did she get a lot of hate for doing what many other character did, but she was blamed for anything Crixus did. This show could really have it's own "Sexism, Racism, and Homophobia" topic. (After all, many people will claim that Agron "was a great character until they made him gay." For the record, Agron's actor, Dan [Not-looking-up-his-last-name-again-due-to-laziness] has confirmed in interviews that he knew Agron's sexual orientation from the start.)

Edited November 7, 2014 by Meushell

[bychance]

Pretty much. For what is an adult television show, its fandom is extremely immature.

 

And Agron was totally checking out that gladiator in Blood and Sand. It certainly didn't come out of nowhere.

 

 

[Badger]

Agron was played by Dan Feuerriegel.  Yes, I am inordinately proud that I can spell his name without looking it up.  LOL!

[bychance]

Lol I still need to google to get his last name right, I can never find a way to memorize it.

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the S02. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[Kat From Jersey]

Agron was played by Dan Feuerriegel.  Yes, I am inordinately proud that I can spell his name without looking it up.  LOL!

 

Agron, sigh!  One of my favorite characters in 'Vengeance', but that has a lot to do with the charisma/dimples of Dan!

 

Hubs and I are currently re-watching the entire series on Encore, and I love it even more this time around.  It's just so over the top with the boobs and butts and spurting blood.  And I love that they're equal-opportunity with the nudity; the men are naked just as much as the women.

 

As much as I love Agron and Nasir, Gannicus has to be my absolute favorite.  He's such a rock star!  My favorite Gannicus quote (when denying presentation to Varinius and other powerful Romans):  "I am for wine, and the embrace of questionable women"!

[Unusual Suspect]

On 15/01/2016 at 3:51 PM, Kat From Jersey said:

Agron, sigh!  One of my favorite characters in 'Vengeance', but that has a lot to do with the charisma/dimples of Dan!

Agron is definitely my favourite, and yes, the dimples definitely are a factor. But it's his unwavering loyalty and aggressive cursing that also make me dig him as a character. Plus I'm a Nagron shipper through and through.