Soccer (or Football, if you prefer) in the US

[DoctorAtomic]

I've never seen a hug, but I have seen them try to go up and shake hands. Apparently the rule is only 'no taunting or showing disrespect'. It's in the ref's purview to tell him to knock it off, but it's not really against the rules per se. 

They've also really restricted movement of the keeper on the line before the ball is struck, minimizing already near infinitesimal odds of making a save beyond just picking a side and going. Any little edge and head game is fine by me. 

I used to point at the kicker, but I think that wouldn't fly now. 

[Carey]

Taunting or no, mind trick or not, I wouldn’t even think of hugging any striker as a keeper.  On any level of the sport, but that’s just me.

Imagine if I allowed a goal.  Handshakes are okay; I probably wouldn’t initiate it.  Save hugs & handshakes for after the game.  As for outright taunting, I might be too upset that I allow my opponent to score to worry about taunting at my expense

[DoctorAtomic]

Well, the guy was being cheeky to get into the striker's head. The ref either has to issue a card or tell him to knock it off. Everyone toes the line to see what they can get away with. 

[blackwing]

Euro 2024 and Copa America tournaments at the same time.  Not sure about Copa America, but I know Fox has the rights to Euro 2024.  And I am reminded again of how much I loathe Landon Donovan as a commentator.

He is truly terrible.  He hardly ever adds any value.  It's like he feels like he hasn't said anything in a while so has to open his mouth and say something.  And it's almost always some useless comment.

[proserpina65]

On 6/17/2024 at 5:44 PM, blackwing said:

And I am reminded again of how much I loathe Landon Donovan as a commentator.

He is truly terrible.  He hardly ever adds any value.  It's like he feels like he hasn't said anything in a while so has to open his mouth and say something.  And it's almost always some useless comment.

Yeah, some of the American announcers are okay, one or two are actually good but Donovan is the pits.

I know they say the words are different, but all I hear when they play the German national anthem is "Deutschland, Deutschland, uber alles".  They really need to change the tune as well.

[blackwing]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:56 AM, proserpina65 said:

Yeah, some of the American announcers are okay, one or two are actually good but Donovan is the pits.

It's not just the fact that he has nothing to say or that he always has to relate some story from his own playing days.  It's that everything is said in the same flat monotone.  Painful to listen to.

[proserpina65]

There were some wild results yesterday.  France drawing with Poland?  Austria beating the Netherlands?  Not something I'd have put on my Euro bingo card, that's for sure.

[blackwing]

3 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

There were some wild results yesterday.  France drawing with Poland?  Austria beating the Netherlands?  Not something I'd have put on my Euro bingo card, that's for sure.

Austria and Romania finishing at the top of their groups over the likes of France, Netherlands and Belgium is stunning.

Lots of draws.  Some 0-0 draws.  Almost no big scoring games.  This is why non-viewers find the sport boring. 

Spain and Germany and Austria seem to be playing the best.  Portugal is also doing well, but I honestly feel like they are being dragged down by Ronaldo.  At the last WC, he got benched.  At this Euros, everything Portugal is about him.  Have to start him so he gets some record.  Have to make him score to feed his ego.  I have never been a fan of him and his guyliner and makeup and hair products that get meticulously applied before each match.  I think he is a very selfish player who is only concerned with his own glory.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Austria and Romania finishing at the top of their groups over the likes of France, Netherlands and Belgium is stunning.

I haven't seen today's matches.  Argh.  Not your fault, though.

I agree 100% about Ronaldo.  I cannot stand him.  He's very selfish as a player.  Still pisses me off that Portugal won the Euros in 2016 despite finishing third in their group.

[DoctorAtomic]

Not so much they finished third, but they didn't win a game in the group stages. 

I'm watching the Euros, but I'm also watching Copa America. Costa Rica held on and took a point from Brazil. 

[blackwing]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I haven't seen today's matches.  Argh.  Not your fault, though.

I agree 100% about Ronaldo.  I cannot stand him.  He's very selfish as a player.  Still pisses me off that Portugal won the Euros in 2016 despite finishing third in their group.

You will be in for a treat as a fellow Ronaldo hater.  He had a hissy as usual and he got a yellow card for it.  Then when he got taken out at around 60 minutes, he had another hissy on the sidelines.  Because the great Ronaldo never thinks the great Ronaldo should be taken out.

There is a good video on ESPN where the commentator says that Ronaldo is more concerned about his personal numbers than about what is best for Portugal.  I don't know why this manager caters to him.  I think he is new, right?  The one who was manager at the WC who benched Ronaldo left?

[proserpina65]

21 hours ago, blackwing said:

You will be in for a treat as a fellow Ronaldo hater.  He had a hissy as usual and he got a yellow card for it.  Then when he got taken out at around 60 minutes, he had another hissy on the sidelines.  Because the great Ronaldo never thinks the great Ronaldo should be taken out.

There is a good video on ESPN where the commentator says that Ronaldo is more concerned about his personal numbers than about what is best for Portugal.  I don't know why this manager caters to him.  I think he is new, right?  The one who was manager at the WC who benched Ronaldo left?

I watched that match last night.  It was fantastic.  And the Czechia/Turkiye game was wild as well.  Who knew Group F would be the exciting one?

[DoctorAtomic]

Congratulations to the USA being in a Copa group that wasn't too hard to advance through and imploding. As a better side, you can play for the point being a man down. Getting through the group stage requires effective management. I'm not pie in the sky about the USA, but advancing out of group stages is an expectation. 

I'm rooting for them, but, man, it's hard to be your friend, guys. 

[DoctorAtomic]

France gets a gift, and Ronaldo gets a prayer today at the Euros. Garbage. 

[blackwing]

France has not been playing well during this tournament.  They don't look anywhere near as crisp and exciting as they did at the World Cup.  Zero (non PK) goals scored.  What's different?  I think the only retirements were Hugo Lloris and Raphael Varane.  They basically have the same players.

France was fortunate that Belgium hasn't been playing well either.  I did feel bad for Jan Vertonghen with that own goal.  He's been such a fixture on the Belgian team, this could possibly be his last major tournament for Belgium, and to finish like that must be awful.

I don't understand the choices that Deschamps is making.  The game was scoreless, the offence was misfiring left and right, and he didn't think to bring in more shooters?  I definitely would have brought in Olivier Giroud.  Yes, he's old, but he is still an effective scorer.  I would have taken out Rabiot, move Griezemann to midfield (where he was a wizard during the last WC), then have Giroud as striker and Kolo Muani on right wing, where he normally plays.

I watched the Portugal game mainly because I wanted to see Ronaldo cry.  And I was not disappointed!  I was so sick of the tongue bath that Landon Donovan was giving Ronaldo.  Ronaldo misses the PK (I thought it was a weak penalty to begin with but the ref clearly seemed to want Portugal to advance and wanted Ronaldo to get his glory).  Breaks down in tears.  I cackled.  Then Landon chimes in with "he's crying because he cares so much".  No, he's crying because he missed a PK and his missed chance at being the hero.

I would have loved if Ronaldo picked up his second yellow and missed the next match.  I think Portugal suffers because of Ronaldo.  Hoping France takes him down and hoping for more tears.

Watching U.S./Uruguay now, it's been super physical. 

[DoctorAtomic]

France is holding up well in the back though. I don't think Portugal can do much against France, and you have to think Mbappe will break out at some point with a burst of creativity and get one. I don't think either of them can beat Germany or Spain who just generating a lot of chances. 

USA just doesn't never seems to have the mental toughness to get results since maybe 2002. This game should have been meaningless if they just managed the game well against Panama. It's not like Uruguay had a must win here. They're not even *that* good. tbh, I thought the goal was soft and wonder if Turner was fit enough for the game. USA needed to win though. 0-0 still doesn't cut it. 

That's the problem though. USA doesn't play enough meaningful international games because they never give themselves enough chances. So they'll probably get an ok draw in 2026, decent chance they'll advance maybe with some help, and then they'll implode in the round of 16 because they'll get tight. They should have never fired Klinsmann. 

[proserpina65]

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

you have to think Mbappe will break out at some point with a burst of creativity and get one.

I don't think that at all.  I think France will get past Portugal, but I don't think they have what they need to win it all.  Not sure what Deschamps is up to with his line ups and formations.

Tell me again, why wasn't Berhalter replaced after the World Cup?  Because he is clearly the problem with the USMNT, not the players.

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They should have never fired Klinsmann. 

100% this.  They needed to give him the time to create the program he wanted, one which could've competed effectively against the big European teams.

[blackwing]

10 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

France is holding up well in the back though. I don't think Portugal can do much against France, and you have to think Mbappe will break out at some point with a burst of creativity and get one. I don't think either of them can beat Germany or Spain who just generating a lot of chances. 

I agree.  Saliba is a good replacement for Varane, and the return of N'Golo Kante has been a blessing for France.  

49 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I don't think that at all.  I think France will get past Portugal, but I don't think they have what they need to win it all.  Not sure what Deschamps is up to with his line ups and formations.

Tell me again, why wasn't Berhalter replaced after the World Cup?  Because he is clearly the problem with the USMNT, not the players.

100% this.  They needed to give him the time to create the program he wanted, one which could've competed effectively against the big European teams.

I can't figure out what Deschamps is doing.  Griezmann doesn't look as good as he did at the WC, maybe age is hitting him.  Giroud has hardly been used at all.  I don't think Konate has played at all.  Jonathan Clauss was the starting right back when Kounde was injured throughout Euro qualifying, but now is a benchwarmer just like another perennial benchwarmer, Benjamin Pavard, who I am surprised even made the team after the WC during which he complained to Deschamps about not playing and then didn't see a minute at all.

The backfield is doing great.  All four defenders are outstanding.  But when you're not scoring goals, why isn't Deschamps doing more to fix it?  To me the answer is Giroud.  Give him significant minutes.  He and Griezmann communicate so well together.

Rabiot picked up his second yellow and will be out for the quarterfinal, so Deschamps will have to at least replace him.  He could go with Camavinga or Zaire-Emery (neither of whom have played at all, I think).  But I would move Griezmann to Rabiot's position, keep Tchouameni as center mid, and start Giroud alongside Mbappe and Dembele or Thuram.

 

As far as Berthaler... he will of course get much of the blame, even though the reason they were in a must win situation is because of the Weah red card.  I think one of the reasons why he was kept is because of the Reynas and the witch hunt they set against him.  I wanted to root for him because of the despicable actions of the Reynas.  But the team hasn't produced results, which has to be on him.

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I don't think that at all.  I think France will get past Portugal, but I don't think they have what they need to win it all.

I don't think they're getting past either Spain or Germany. I'm just saying I think he'll break out for a couple of goals. 

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Tell me again, why wasn't Berhalter replaced after the World Cup?  Because he is clearly the problem with the USMNT, not the players.

They tried, didn't they? And then rehired him. Dempsey said on the postgame that the search took a long time, so I think they couldn't find anyone. tbh, I think USMNT as an organization needs to take the stick out of their ass and hand the reins over like they did with Klinsmann, but give them a fixed period of, say 6 years, to go through a Gold Cup and WC qualifying and another Gold Cup. I'm wondering of the people they went after wanted more authority or assurances and they just didn't do it. Say what you want about Lalas, but he was 100% correct in his ranting. Maybe he shouldn't have ranted, but I can respect he feels some ownership.

Tactics, I personally don't think a 433 is effective if you don't have a true 9. To be fair, the defense is playing really well, but I can speak from very low level experience, when you're playing 90 minutes of sudden death, in that you know if you concede, then you're probably taking the L, it wears you down. I don't see as is how you're getting out of a group stage if you can't score. If teams know they need at least 2 to beat you that's a whole different playbook than, "we can get one when they get tight and then lock it down for the remainder."

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

As far as Berthaler... he will of course get much of the blame, even though the reason they were in a must win situation is because of the Weah red card. 

It's partially that, but it's also dictating the mentality of taking the point and going into game 3 without it being a must win. Granted, the 2nd goal seemed soft to me, but I didn't see tactics changing much to eliminate those chances. I said it before, a disciplined team with 10 men can come away with a result. tbh, they scored first after the red card. They really should have taken all 3 points. 

[Fukui San]

The Anti-Berhalter cynic's view is that Berhalter was always who they wanted to lead the team, but the Reynas' bringing up the domestic violence incident in Berhalter's past after the World Cup made it more difficult to do. But replacing him was never a serious option, due to nepotism. I'm not particularly anti-Berhalter. I was OK with him having the chance, but at this point with this result I'm OK with moving on.

The Anti-Berhalter contingent will cite that the best soccer the US has played recently was in the 6 months in which Berhalter was away, when a no-name coach was leading him. JJ McCarthy, I think his name was?

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm just saying I think he'll break out for a couple of goals. 

I haven't really been impressed with him and disagree that he'll score anything this time around.

I do agree that France's defense is solid, though.  Saliba is a god back there.

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

They tried, didn't they? And then rehired him. Dempsey said on the postgame that the search took a long time, so I think they couldn't find anyone. tbh, I think USMNT as an organization needs to take the stick out of their ass and hand the reins over like they did with Klinsmann, but give them a fixed period of, say 6 years, to go through a Gold Cup and WC qualifying and another Gold Cup. I'm wondering of the people they went after wanted more authority or assurances and they just didn't do it. Say what you want about Lalas, but he was 100% correct in his ranting. Maybe he shouldn't have ranted, but I can respect he feels some ownership.

True, that is a good part of the problem.  Anyone who could make effective changes with the team wouldn't want the organization to retain so much of the control.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't expect the US to be a perennial threat to be in the final. There's only 3 or 4 nations total that you can basically pencil in. Even the semifinals. However, I don't think 2 or 3 quarterfinals over the last 20 years is pie in the sky either. 

That's not the current coaching staff; that's a structural problem. Not advancing out of a tepid Copa group is a symptom, but it's also a current issue. Tons of players have international experience now (something Klinsmann said was important); Pulisic was third? in scoring in Serie A. I don't see the current strategy and mentality is going to translate to any success in 2026. On top of all that US is one of the host nations; this is as best a chance you're going to get to make an impact in the World Cup. 

[Fukui San]

At the very minimum, we have to expect that the team be more disciplined as to not earn straight red cards in 2 out of the last 5 games, leading to losses to minnows Trinidad & Tobago and Panama. Even if the tactics don't improve, just not shooting yourself in the foot would have been a huge improvement over what happened.

I know that if an NFL team leads the league in penalties every year, I would chalk that up to coaching. Should we not for this type of football?

[proserpina65]

All tournament matches should be as exciting as the Austria-Turkiye match yesterday.  That SAVE at the end?????  Insane and wonderful.  As a neutral, it was just a fantastic and exciting match to watch.

And the Netherlands finally showed up.  'Bout time boys.

Edited July 3 by proserpina65

[DoctorAtomic]

I was rooting for the rematch. Austria just scored too late. 

 

[proserpina65]

24 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I was rooting for the rematch. Austria just scored too late. 

 

I wouldn't have minded another half hour of that kind of action.  Glad it didn't have to go to penalties, though.

[blackwing]

I was rooting for Austria too.  It's kind of amazing that finishing third in their group has worked out so well for Netherlands.  They get to avoid Spain, Portugal, France and Germany.  Would not at all be surprised to see them make the final from their half.  I just wish I liked them better.

22 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I haven't really been impressed with [Mbappe] and disagree that he'll score anything this time around.

I do agree that France's defense is solid, though.  Saliba is a god back there.

I haven't been that impressed with him either.  His footwork is great as always but the goals aren't there.  Even before he broke his nose, he wasn't doing anything.  And after he broke his nose, he just seems overly concerned with the mask and his nose and it's probably affecting his play.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't think France has a shot against Spain. I don't know if anyone is playing better than Spain right now. 

 

[blackwing]

53 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't think France has a shot against Spain. I don't know if anyone is playing better than Spain right now. 

 

Spain will be without Dani Carvajal and Robin Le Normand, at least.  I agree that Spain is playing well.  But France's defenders are also playing well.

France's offence looked much better today, they at least had some great chances.  Dembele especially.  However, Mbappe got hit on the nose and once again, it seems like that mask is like his kryptonite.  He's so concerned about his nose and getting hit in the nose, he has had very little impact on this game.

Can't understand why Giroud has been left on the bench for two straight games now.  Still don't understand a lot of Deschamps' decisions.  France is lucky to have advanced at the shootout because they had players who rarely partipate in the shootout.

End of an era for Ronaldo hahaha, no more Ronaldo in Euros.  It's ridiculous how this manager panders to him so much.  Ronaldo should have been subbed out, like Mbappe he did almost nothing today.

 

Edited July 5 by blackwing

[proserpina65]

Cry those bitch baby tears, Ronaldo!  Cry them!

[DoctorAtomic]

Pepe was crying. And he's allowed. He left everything out there. I don't think Portugal was good enough to advance even this far anyway. 

I just think France is playing with fire if they think relying on the defense so much is going to hold. If Spain can run them up and down the pitch like they did against Germany, France is going to be gassed by the second half. You have to think they're worried to not have scored a goal at all yet. I find it hard that Spain would be shut out totally. 

I wish there was a way to have more of an incentive in extra time to go get it more and not be so gun shy that you're just sitting for penalties. You get an extra substitute, so you can change over half the lineup. 

It looked to me like Germany went for it in the first ET period but then just closed up shop in the second. It's almost like they weren't expecting Spain to give it a few more shots. It's unholy how open Merino was. 

[blackwing]

17 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Pepe was crying. And he's allowed. He left everything out there. I don't think Portugal was good enough to advance even this far anyway. 

I just think France is playing with fire if they think relying on the defense so much is going to hold. If Spain can run them up and down the pitch like they did against Germany, France is going to be gassed by the second half. You have to think they're worried to not have scored a goal at all yet. I find it hard that Spain would be shut out totally. 

There's a great article on ESPN saying that the manager's devotion to Ronaldo made them lose.  Yep.

Deschamps' strategy is that defence wins, but he also acknowledged they need to score goals.  Well, yes.  I hope Dembele gets to start.  I also think Camavinga was so much more effective than Rabiot and should get the start.  I was puzzled at why Griezmann was subbed out at 66 minutes, I wonder if he was tired.

Apparently Mbappe asked to be taken out for the second half of Extra Time.  He said he was tired and not feeling it.  Just a truly disappointing tournament for him thus far.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

There's a great article on ESPN saying that the manager's devotion to Ronaldo made them lose.  Yep.

Is it the manager, or is he being directed to do that? 

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Deschamps' strategy is that defence wins, but he also acknowledged they need to score goals.  Well, yes.  I hope Dembele gets to start

It doesn't though, in any sport. It's timely defense. You get stops when you need to get a stop. You may then be only winning 1-0, but you still need to manufacture offense. If you're asking your defense to basically play sudden death for 90 minutes, that's going to run out. 

[DoctorAtomic]

The Swiss handed the game to England in extra time. They didn't have to go for broke, but you had Kane out, and England wasn't interested in offense much. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Brazil is OUT!!! 😯

[Carey]

As the saying goes: SPORTS!!!!!!

[DoctorAtomic]

I know the penalty shootout is a skill and 99% mental. But it's also 12 yards away. You can go up and just cream it. The ball is mostly going to go in. Even when the keeper goes the right way, striking well, it will still go in. 

 

Edited July 7 by DoctorAtomic

[proserpina65]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I know the penalty shootout is a skill and 99% mental. But it's also 12 yards away. You can go up and just cream it. The ball is mostly going to go in. Even when the keeper goes the right way, striking well, it will still go in. 

 

Which makes Pickford's stop all the more impressive.  That's what happens when you actually train a team for penalty shootouts, which apparently was an alien idea in England before Gareth Southgate became the manager.

Now I have my dream/nightmare semifinal: my favorite team (England) vs my second favorite team (Netherlands).  I'll be thrilled/distraught either way.

 

[blackwing]

On 7/6/2024 at 12:57 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Is it the manager, or is he being directed to do that? 

But directed by whom?  The previous Portuguese manager had zero qualms about benching Ronaldo during the World Cup.  The current manager isn't even Portuguese, so I don't really know why he has such loyalty to Ronaldo.  The explanation to me is that Ronaldo bullies and intimidates his way into his place on the team.  And none of his teammates or the staff want to tell him otherwise.

 

On 7/6/2024 at 10:11 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I know the penalty shootout is a skill and 99% mental. But it's also 12 yards away. You can go up and just cream it. The ball is mostly going to go in. Even when the keeper goes the right way, striking well, it will still go in. 

20 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Which makes Pickford's stop all the more impressive.  That's what happens when you actually train a team for penalty shootouts, which apparently was an alien idea in England before Gareth Southgate became the manager.

I've seen the photos of Pickford's water bottle, which told him what to do for each shooter.  I'm wondering, do all goalkeepers do this?  If some or most do not, then this photo just gave away the secret.

I'm assuming that some staffer keeps track of all penalty shootouts worldwide and records where each player shot.  Based on this, they determine what the shooter is most likely to do, and then Pickford gets his cheat sheet on which way he should dive.  I think this would only work if they have enough data (fairly sizeable number of shots) on each shooter.  If I were a shooter and knew that I had a tendency to shoot to one particular side, I'd purposely shoot to the other. 

I'm also wondering why more shooters just don't kick as hard as they can, is it fear of shooting over the goal or wide if they feel like they have less control?

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I thought maybe the Portuguese soccer governing body would have told him to let Ronaldo play out his last Euro. There's no tactical reason to keep him in the game when he's not doing anything. 

15 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I think this would only work if they have enough data (fairly sizeable number of shots) on each shooter. 

I think there is enough data because all of the big name guys play in the top pro leagues, and I don't think it would be too hard to obtain footage to study them. There's lots more PKs over the course of a regular season of 35, 40 matches than in international matches. 

17 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm also wondering why more shooters just don't kick as hard as they can, is it fear of shooting over the goal or wide if they feel like they have less control?

One of the guys over the weekend did that. This was what I was trying to say in my last post. Yes, I know it's a mental game, but I also think they're over analyzing it to the point where they tend to strike poorly. You see the shooter trying to look off the keeper. Just put your head down and focus on setting the plant foot properly. 

Given how close the spot is, if you strike it well, it doesn't matter if the keeper goes the same way. We saw that plenty of times. I know you have to practice, but really the only way the keeper should get it, is if it's hit bad or they just make a tremendous athletic dive, but even then, they have to take off the right way on the shot. So just smash it. They're never going to get anything in the upper 90s. 

I don't think it's fair that they can run up and stop. It didn't used to be that way. Once you make you run, you should have to complete it. 

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I thought maybe the Portuguese soccer governing body would have told him to let Ronaldo play out his last Euro. There's no tactical reason to keep him in the game when he's not doing anything. 

I don't think it's fair that they can run up and stop. It didn't used to be that way. Once you make you run, you should have to complete it. 

I saw Ronaldo say that he will probably be available for the 2026 WC.  I'm wondering how many of his teammates and Portuguese fans groaned when they heard that.

I agree that I think it is completely unfair that shooters can do that running and stuttering stop.  When was that changed?  I thought there always had to be forward motion.  I particularly hated it with Lewandowski v. Maignan.  He does this ridiculous looking stuttering, he moves to strike the ball, Maignan saves.  Then he claims that Maignan moved too early.  He gets to retake it, does his same stupid stuttering (I think it looks stupid from most but with him it looked especially comical) and scores.

It's hard enough being a goalkeeper trying to defend against penalty shots.  This stuttering makes it even more difficult.  Why is this allowed?

 

Great job by Canada to make it to the semifinals of Copa America!  They are the obvious "how did they even get here" team in the semis.  Don't think they were expected to make it out of the group stage, then they beat Venezuela in PKs in the quarterfinal. 

Now they get Argentina in the semis.  I find it odd how that works.  4 groups, 16 teams, top 2 from each group advance to the quarterfinals.  Shouldn't the bracket be arranged so that 1 and 2 from a particular group can only meet again in the final?  Canada as the #2 should have been on the opposite side of the knockout bracket as #1 Argentina.  Doesn't seem particularly fair to the #2 team to have to face the team they lost to in the group stage in the semifinal round.

I know Euros have 4 third place teams advance, so it is inevitable that some of the 3rd place teams could face the #1 team from their group again before the final.  But I want to say that all the #2's were on opposite sides of the knockout bracket from the #1's, right?

[DoctorAtomic]

To make it worse, the keepers can't move much off the line like they used to either. There used to be some leeway in that first step. Technically, a proper dive isn't "lateral". Based on the way you push off the plant foot, there's a slight angle, so the window between you and the goal is smaller because you're diving 'out' to the ball. Without that, it's largely a lateral dive, which gives the advantage to the kicker. I don't see why you can't just make them follow through on the shot once they start their run. You can run up from as far back as you want. So if you're going to let them hop all around, the just limit the start of the run from the 18. That's still a long six yards. 

I don't know why teams play for PKs, when it gives more of an advantage to the lesser team to just hang on. 

I think it's set up in the quarters that a group winner plays a group runnerup. It looks like it's A1/B2, B1/A2, C1/D2, D1/C2. I don't see why they can't go A/C B/D or A/D B/C. It may be due to how the groups are actually seeded and what nation goes into what pot. Because you don't want a Brazil/Argentina until the final or at least the semis. Any tournament is going to be set up so the top seeds won't meet until later on. Of course, then you get a runnerup upset. 

[proserpina65]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:14 AM, blackwing said:

I've seen the photos of Pickford's water bottle, which told him what to do for each shooter.  I'm wondering, do all goalkeepers do this?  If some or most do not, then this photo just gave away the secret.

It's been going on since at least the 2006 World Cup and probably much longer than that.

 

On 7/8/2024 at 1:07 PM, blackwing said:

Then he claims that Maignan moved too early.  He gets to retake it, does his same stupid stuttering (I think it looks stupid from most but with him it looked especially comical) and scores.

That's the whole point of the stutter step - to make the keeper come off his line too early.  Didn't know that it used to be against the rules but they have been doing it for awhile now.

[DoctorAtomic]

It's bonkers already 21' in at Munich!

 

[blackwing]

26 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It's bonkers already 21' in at Munich!

 

Exciting half!  This is the best France has looked all tournament.

Dumb question... the second Spain goal was originally credited as a Kounde own goal.  The ball is shot by Dani Olmo and goes off Kounde's foot.  Later, it was changed to a goal for Olmo.

France eliminated Belgium on a shot by Kolo Muani that deflected off Jan Vertonghen.  It was credited as a Vertonghen OG.  I wanted France to win but I felt bad for Vertonghen, it wasn't his fault.  He retired from the international team days later, such a sad ending to a great international career for Belgium's most capped-ever payer.

Why did Vertonghen's deflection get credited as an OG but not Kounde's?

[DoctorAtomic]

It's somewhat subjective, but in this game, it looked like that the ball was going in regardless of the defender getting a foot on it. 

The other one, I don't remember clearly, but iirc it was deflected off the defender in. 

[DoctorAtomic]

There will be no FRAUNCH fries in Berlin.

[blackwing]

17 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It's somewhat subjective, but in this game, it looked like that the ball was going in regardless of the defender getting a foot on it. 

The other one, I don't remember clearly, but iirc it was deflected off the defender in. 

Makes sense that it's a judgment call.  I have always thought it was harsh to credit a defender with an own goal if the ball inadvertently deflects off them.  The Vertonghen OG, he was standing there and the ball brushed off his knee, there was nothing he could do.  I would say OGs should be for ones that were blatantly the fault of the defender.  I recall a game in the group stage where a defender rushed in towards the goal and inadvertently kicked the ball, that to me is an OG.

For the Dani Olmo goal, from the slow mo replay they showed and the angle, looking from the right post towards Olmo, it looked to me that the ball would have went wide (or possibly hit the post) were it not for Kounde.  But I assume the reviewers had better camera angles.

A well played game.  Spain deserved to win, they were very exciting.  France definitely had chances.  Mbappe should have scored.  Theo Hernandez should have scored as well but the ball went to his right foot.

End of an era for Olivier Giroud, France's top goal scorer ever, until Mbappe eventually overtakes him.  I'm glad that Deschamps at least played him.

Edited July 10 by blackwing

[DoctorAtomic]

I think the decision to award the own goal is up to the organization; i.e., UEFA for the Euros. There's an official onsite. The referee only needs to note that the goal is legally scored. 

[paulvdb]

The decision can be a bit subjective, but generally the rule is that a goal will be credited as an own goal if the ball would not have gone into the goal if the defender had not touched it.