S04.E07: Winter Show

[EtheltoTillie]

On 12/8/2024 at 4:30 PM, amarante said:

I am Jewish - grew up in such a predominantly Jewish neighborhood that I couldn't understand reading that Jews were a minority because the minority were the few Italian Catholics with Christmas decorations

That said we didn't celebrate Christmas - didn't have a Hanukah bush but we did visit Fifth Avenue to see the incredible windows. As an adult it was Chinese food and first run movies - SNL has a fantastic short which features Darlene Love belting out Christmas Time For The Jews with Smigel animated cartoon. 

I love music of all kinds so I spent a decade collecting Christmas Music of all genres - from Big Mama Thornton/Bessie Smith - The Drifters, Judy Garland, Guns n Roses to yes Run DMC. And of course Phil Spector's Christmas Album which is still something I enjoy listening to 50 years after its release. I relish the sheer variety of music styles that one could collect.

I think my school did have some kind of Christmas assembly but nothing overtly religious - no creche, no Silent Night. I guess to a purist Rudolph and Santa and even Frosty represent Christianity but none of the Jewish families seemed to care. You really can't escape Christmas If you navigate the world even if it does not resonate in any way. As a child I remember the Planetarium show had Santa flying across the skY

 

The funniest line is where they show the playbill with the fiddler on the roof cast.  The part usually played by Rosie O’Donnell . . .  
 

Did you also grow up in NYc like me?  I lived in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood in queens and even all our teachers were Jewish. But we sang nonsectarian Christmas songs like Sleigh Ride. My family was an exception because my aunts were married to Italians. So we had Christmas like the Schimentis. 

Edited Thursday at 01:57 PM by EtheltoTillie

[ridethemaverick]

I grew up in black schools and my kids attend black schools...nobody would think to do a winter show instead of Christmas unless it came up, so that part rang very true to me. 

I need Ava and Oshon to go ahead and make it do what it do. I like a slow burn, but those two are hot AF. 

Edited Thursday at 05:57 PM by ridethemaverick

[amarante]

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

The funniest line is where they show the playbill with the fiddler on the roof cast.  The part usually played by Rosie O’Donnell . . .  
 

Did you also grow up in NYc like me?  I lived in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood in queens and even all our teachers were Jewish. But we sang nonsectarian Christmas songs like Sleigh Ride. My family was an exception because my aunts were married to Italians. So we had Christmas like the Schimentis. 

I grew up in Brooklyn in Midwood. I remember my father taking us to visit a work friend to see his Christmas tree. 

I didn't understand the logic of completely eliminating any mention of "Christmas". I assumed that public school was now more multi-cultural and so all of the winter holidays would be celebrated so you would have the Dreidel song; something relating to Kwanzaa and perhaps other holidays that are festivals of light. Anthropologically most cultures have festivals with "lights" in proximity to the Winter Solstice because they are rooted in ancient superstitions of wanting the sun to return. Same reason most cultures have festivals when the harvest is traditionally done in the Fall. 

Decking the halls with "boughs" of holly is related to Druidic customs rather than Christianity anyway :-)

 

[EtheltoTillie]

3 minutes ago, amarante said:

I grew up in Brooklyn in Midwood. I remember my father taking us to visit a work friend to see his Christmas tree. 

I didn't understand the logic of completely eliminating any mention of "Christmas". I assumed that public school was now more multi-cultural and so all of the winter holidays would be celebrated so you would have the Dreidel song; something relating to Kwanzaa and perhaps other holidays that are festivals of light. Anthropologically most cultures have festivals with "lights" in proximity to the Winter Solstice because they are rooted in ancient superstitions of wanting the sun to return. Same reason most cultures have festivals when the harvest is traditionally done in the Fall. 

Decking the halls with "boughs" of holly is related to Druidic customs rather than Christianity anyway :-)

 

I guess the public schools still have to stay away from religion of all kinds.  Not really sure.  I may ask a teacher friend.  She teaches at an elementary school in the Bronx. 

And by the way my Italian relatives never went to church or had any religious practice.  It was all about the food.

[amarante]

25 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I guess the public schools still have to stay away from religion of all kinds.  Not really sure.  I may ask a teacher friend.  She teaches at an elementary school in the Bronx. 

And by the way my Italian relatives never went to church or had any religious practice.  It was all about the food.

There is a difference between a reenactment of the birth of Jesus with a creche and kids having a song fest with Jingle Bells, Frosty, The Dreidel Song and equivalent stuff from other cultures. Silent Night is inappropriate clearly as would the Maccabee Battle Song :-)

[ridethemaverick]

19 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I guess the public schools still have to stay away from religion of all kinds.  Not really sure.  I may ask a teacher friend.  She teaches at an elementary school in the Bronx. 

And by the way my Italian relatives never went to church or had any religious practice.  It was all about the food.

They don't have to necessarily. Went to my daughter's Christmas concert last night. The school choir sang silent night. The concert band played Oh Holy Night, Joy to the World, etc. It's not even a question. The culture is just different. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 12/12/2024 at 1:32 PM, amarante said:

There is a difference between a reenactment of the birth of Jesus with a creche and kids having a song fest with Jingle Bells, Frosty, The Dreidel Song and equivalent stuff from other cultures. Silent Night is inappropriate clearly as would the Maccabee Battle Song :-)

Christmas is a celebration of the birth of a religion.  Chanukah is a celebration of the fact that enemies did not succeed in suppressing a religion.  (For those who don't know, the Maccabees were a family who led a revolt against the Syrian Greek king who wanted to Hellenize the Jews in Jerusalem in 168 BCE.) When I was young, I wished that holiday songs were kept to the home or religious institution.

Edited 6 hours ago by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 12/13/2024 at 8:11 AM, ridethemaverick said:

They don't have to necessarily. Went to my daughter's Christmas concert last night. The school choir sang silent night. The concert band played Oh Holy Night, Joy to the World, etc. It's not even a question. The culture is just different. 

Is this a private Christian school?  Imagine how a Jewish or Muslim child might feel if they were in a school choir that was performing Holy Night and Joy to the World.  They would feel excluded. (My understanding is that Muslims consider Jesus to have been a prophet who was born to a virgin, but they don't consider him to have been divine.)

I will say that I like Little Drummer Boy, but it doesn't belong in public school.   Freedom from religion is an important Constitutional principle.

Edited 6 hours ago by ItCouldBeWorse

[ridethemaverick]

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Is this a private Christian school?  Imagine how a Jewish or Muslim child might feel if they were in a school choir that was performing Holy Night and Joy to the World.  They would feel excluded. (My understanding is that Muslims consider Jesus to have been a prophet who was born to a virgin, but they don't consider him to have been divine.)

I will say that I like Little Drummer Boy, but it doesn't belong in public school.   Freedom from religion is an important Constitutional principle.

Large public high school. 

I don't disagree that some might feel excluded. I guess nobody has complained yet.