Season Six: Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes...

[WendyCR72]

Oh, and I will say this. Someone else said how Olivia Benson on SVU is always said to be strong. But I agreed with them when they brought up Eames being stronger; I personally think Eames is just as tough, making her own luck and escaping on her own. I do like that she wasn't a damsel in distress and used the smarts she had to help herself.

[Donny Ketchum]

I got it. She was physically tortured, not to mention mentally tortured in hearing the other woman behind an opposite wall being killed. (She told Goren about the screams at the hospital.) That would be enough to weaken even the strongest person, knowing someone was being killed and not being able to do a damned thing to stop it, on top of fighting for your own survival.

True, but even Eames looked and sounded like she didn't want it.  The way she was quick to tell Goren that she only had three sessions to go told me she'd probably been ordered into it by Ross rather than gone for it on her own.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[WendyCR72]

True, but even Eames looked and sounded like she didn't want it.  The way she was quick to tell Goren that she only had three sessions to go told me she'd probably been ordered into it by Ross rather than gone for it on her own.

 

I see your point. But just because Eames didn't want it didn't mean it wasn't helpful. Goren was the same way about therapy, but by the end of the series, the last episode seemed to have him in a better place.

 

They probably saw a lot on the job that others never would, not to mention their personal traumas. Therapy was probably hard for both of them because they fought giving in to any vulnerability, and therapy is all about finding the weak spots they don't want to focus upon and analyzing them.

[WendyCR72]

I know I mentioned this before, but every time I watch "Masquerade" (which is airing now), I think of how much of a better episode it could have been had Liza Minelli not hammed it up as the victim's mother. I think the role needed someone more subtle in the role.

[Eolivet]

I hate to admit, I kind of liked Liza in that role. Maybe because she acts so infrequently. She did seem to be a tad older than her character should have been, though.

 

I liked her, too. I mean, who better to play a stage mom? I also found her scenes with the son quite poignant ("You were just a little boy"). To me, she was an example of good stunt casting (unlike say, Doris Roberts in "Privileged" -- which was bad stunt casting, to me. I didn't believe her as an aging socialite, but I completely bought Liza Minelli as a slightly unhinged stage mom).

[Donny Ketchum]

And wasn't the perp in that episode the one who went on to play Olivia's therapist on SVU?

[Donny Ketchum]

Watching this marathon of season six yesterday, I don't doubt that the episodes got a bit darker and grimmer.  But I think that only applied to Goren and Eames's episodes.  Logan and Wheeler's episodes actually managed to keep plenty of lightness and levity in them, at least as far as I could see.

[WendyCR72]

And wasn't the perp in that episode the one who went on to play Olivia's therapist on SVU?

 

Yep.

Watching this marathon of season six yesterday, I don't doubt that the episodes got a bit darker and grimmer.  But I think that only applied to Goren and Eames's episodes.  Logan and Wheeler's episodes actually managed to keep plenty of lightness and levity in them, at least as far as I could see.

 

By the end, though, (the episode Wheeler goes to Europe), it was just as dark for Logan, too. Like very quickly falling for his doomed neighbor before she's murdered. And S7 was just a dark pit of despair for not just Goren, Logan (with dark cases a la "Senseless"), but also for Eames with the "Amends"/Joe revisit.

 

S8 still had a bit of dark, but it lightened up a bit in the middle, IMO.

 

I don't think the show really lightened up in tone, a la the early seasons, until S10.

[Donny Ketchum]

By the end, though (the episode Wheeler goes to Europe), it was just as dark for Logan, too. Like very quickly falling for his doomed neighbor before she's murdered. And S7 was just a dark pit of despair for not just Goren, Logan (with dark cases a la "Senseless"), but also for Eames with the "Amends"/Joe revisit.

I would also throw in Wheeler in her and Logan's final few episodes of that season.  Especially the final few minutes of their finale.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[WendyCR72]

I would also thrown in Wheeler, as well, in her and Logan's final few episodes of that season.  Especially the final few minutes of their finale.

 

True. So, basically, all the leads in S7 were basically drowning in anger and sadness. At least the lighting in S7 seemed to match. Was it me, or did it seem like a lot of the lights in the precinct were turned off that season? Maybe Warren Leight (EP for S6/7, now at SVU) was trying to be edgy and symbolic or something.

 

(Okay, this is the Season 6 thread, but hey! Conversations evolve. So if anyone wants to discuss it further, just head to the S7 thread!)

[WendyCR72]

"Players" is on now. I think it's one of the few episodes that seems pretty interesting, as far as Logan and Wheeler's cases go. (For some reason, to me, their cases seemed less twisty than the G/E counterparts, more "Mothershippy", which sort of makes sense, considering.)

 

Maybe it just feels faster, as I know the cycle is always the same, but I can't believe ion is almost done with S6, already.

[WendyCR72]

After a refresher course in "Silencer", which just ended, just why the hell was Peter the Interpreter even needed, since we discovered at the end that Goren knew sign language? Just to flirt with Eames? Because even that is dumb, since it went nowhere.

 

And "Rocket Man" is on now, a pretty good episode.

[Donny Ketchum]

And "Rocket Man" is on now, a pretty good episode.

I actually couldn't decide if that wife was deluding herself in the end or was actually a little bit right that a jury would see her side of things.  Because yeah, her motives were somewhat understandable in that she was trying to keep her family together.  But she horribly went about it the wrong way.

 

This is one of the things I quite like about CI.  The perps' crimes are heinous, for sure.  But every now and then, you see one whose motives you can at least somewhat understand, if not even flat-out sympathize with a bit.

[Maherjunkie]

I got the impression Bobby learned sign language just for this moment, as in he was learning it just before the confrontation.  Could be wrong, but it was another "John-Boy" moment.

[WendyCR72]

I got the impression Bobby learned sign language just for this moment, as in he was learning it just before the confrontation.  Could be wrong, but it was another "John-Boy" moment.

 

I'm not sure about that; he seemed pretty proficient, not a beginner.

[Maherjunkie]

He appeared to be a dunce at the skating rink.

[WendyCR72]

He appeared to be a dunce at the skating rink.

 

Or kept it in reserve for when it was important! Seems to be Bobby's formula.  :-)

[Donny Ketchum]

Okay, so while I thought Carmen was so incredibly and unnecessarily nasty to her in "Flipped," the Howdy Doodie comparison she made in regards to Wheeler was pretty accurate.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[WendyCR72]

Okay, so while I thought Carmen was so incredibly and unnecessarily nasty to her in "Players," the Howdy Doodie comparison she made in regards to Wheeler was pretty accurate.

 

Ouch!

 

Julianne Nicholson was lucky that she could pull off that pixie cut. Not many women can. But, yeah, depending on how it was styled, she did sometimes look like a boy. Too bad she never grew it out on the show.

 

Although she had shoulder-length hair as Christina Finn on Conviction and still looked mega young, so maybe she thought shorter hair would help age Wheeler, a bit.

[Donny Ketchum]

 

Ouch!

 

Julianne Nicholson was lucky that she could pull off that pixie cut. Not many women can. But, yeah, depending on how it was styled, she did sometimes look like a boy. Too bad she never grew it out on the show.

 

Although she had shoulder-length hair as Christina Finn on Conviction and still looked mega young, so maybe she thought shorter hair would help age Wheeler, a bit.

Wheeler was my favorite detective on the whole show, so it pained me to agree with Carmen's comparison, but I really could see it at times.

 

I thought, though, that Julianne did grow it out around season eight.

[WendyCR72]

I thought, though, that Julianne did grow it out around season eight.

 

Well, it was a smidge longer there. It was still very short, but over her ears by then, so...kind of, sort of. It was a bit softer looking by then. In season 6, that cut was pretty severe, IMO.

 

But, like I said, JN had the bone structure to pull such a style off.

[Maherjunkie]

 

Okay, so while I thought Carmen was so incredibly and unnecessarily nasty to her in "Players," the Howdy Doodie comparison she made in regards to Wheeler was pretty accurate.

I think you mean Flipped.

[Donny Ketchum]

I think you mean Flipped.

Oops.  I checked my DVR, and yes, it was "Flipped."  Edited accordingly now.

[WendyCR72]

Speaking of titles, it's odd how in the earlier years, the titles were short, much like "Flipped" as an example. "One", "Art", etc. But starting in S7 or so, they got wordier, especially the long assed "Please Be Advised We Are No Longer Accepting Recommendations From Henry Kissinger".

 

Who thought that was a good title?! LOL. Besides, the simpler titles are easier to remember more often than not.

[Eolivet]

Was that episode written by an outside writer, or not a regular writer? Sometimes I feel like outside writers come in with their own style. It does stick out like a sore thumb, when every other title is pretty succinct.

 

(I did not like the foreign language/fancy word titles that weren't explained in the context of the show. Maybe that's my relative stupidity. Things like "Ex Stasis" and "Graansha" and "Eosphoros." I almost prefer the simple, vague titles -- at least I can understand them, LOL!)

[WendyCR72]

Was that episode written by an outside writer, or not a regular writer? Sometimes I feel like outside writers come in with their own style. It does stick out like a sore thumb, when every other title is pretty succinct.

 

(I did not like the foreign language/fancy word titles that weren't explained in the context of the show. Maybe that's my relative stupidity. Things like "Ex Stasis" and "Graansha" and "Eosphoros." I almost prefer the simple, vague titles -- at least I can understand them, LOL!)

 

Well, S10's titles were a bit wordier, as well. Nothing like "Henry Kissinger" obviously, but not really one word, too. Except "Rispetto", "Cadaver", and "Icarus", of course.  :-)

[Donny Ketchum]

I watched my DVR recording of "Players" from last week.  Damn, whoever played Tom, Jr., and Riordan were both so good.  You could see the firmness on Tom's face when he confronted Riordan, yet still the caring nature he had toward his son as he did so.  And you could also see that protectiveness gradually melt away as Logan and Wheeler just as gradually expose Riordan's lies at the end.  Riordan's portrayer did a pretty good job, too, in putting on his "wankster," tough-guy front, only to completely crumble when he realized his father wouldn't be helping him get out of his part in Jacob's death.  Very good acting in those last scenes.  Hell, Chris and even Julianne did their parts admirably, as well!

Edited November 9, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[WendyCR72]

I watched my DVR recording of "Players" from last week.  Damn, whoever played Tom, Jr., and Riordan were both so good.  You could see the firmness on Tom's face when he confronted Riordan, yet still the caring nature he had toward his son as he did so.  And you could also see that protectiveness gradually melt away as Logan and Wheeler just as gradually expose Riordan's lies at the end.  Riordan's portrayer did a pretty good, too, in putting on his "wankster," tough-guy front, only to completely crumble when he realized his father wouldn't be helping him get out of his part in Jacob's death.  Very good acting in those last scenes.  Hell, Chris and even Julianne did their parts admirably, as well!

 

Yeah, I did like that the lawyer father wasn't all "my son" and let him face the consequences. Kind of refreshing.

[Maherjunkie]

What charge would Riordan actually be charged with?

[Donny Ketchum]

Yeah, I did like that the lawyer father wasn't all "my son" and let him face the consequences. Kind of refreshing.

Agreed, but I think he was also helped by Riordan acting so nonchalant and even downright remorseless about Jacob's death.  It very clearly made him see his father in his son (something he even said aloud, I think), and he wanted to nip it in the bud before he potentially turned into an out-and-out sociopath.

 

What charge would Riordan actually be charged with?

Not sure.  Perhaps manslaughter.  Maybe murder because he didn't take Jacob to the hospital when both of his friends (apparently, especially the girl) begged him to do so.

[WendyCR72]

Agreed, but I think he was also helped by Riordan acting so nonchalant and even downright remorseless about Jacob's death.  It very clearly made him see his father in his son (something he even said aloud, I think), and he wanted to nip it in the bud before he potentially turned into an out-and-out sociopath.

 

Not sure.  Perhaps manslaughter.  Maybe murder because he didn't take Jacob to the hospital when both of his friends (apparently, especially the girl) begged him to do so.

 

Riordan letting Jordan die is likely manslaughter with a dollop of negligence added in. (No, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure negligence would figure in somewhere here.)

[Maherjunkie]

Maybe depraved indifference.

[WendyCR72]

Maybe depraved indifference.

 

That's it! That's what I was thinking of.

[rujasu]

Makes me think of the old Mothership cases.  Kincaid would tell McCoy that the suspect is an SOB, but there's nothing to charge him with, McCoy would pull "depraved indifference" out of his rear, and Schiff would roll his eyes and mutter about McCoy's inflated ego.

 

Carver, on the other hand, would only bring charges when the suspect was confessing the crime in front of three eyewitnesses, while holding the smoking gun and watching the security footage of the murder.  And somehow Goren would come up with a way to make that happen.

[WendyCR72]

Carver, on the other hand, would only bring charges when the suspect was confessing the crime in front of three eyewitnesses, while holding the smoking gun and watching the security footage of the murder.  And somehow Goren would come up with a way to make that happen.

 

Is it sad that I laughed at this? But it's true!

[Paron Xanthis]

I'm so confused.  So at the end of "Blasters," did Ditmir imply that only Logan was now "in blood" with the Albanian mob, or that he and Wheeler were both in it?  Because technically, both of them busted him.

[WendyCR72]

I'm so confused.  So at the end of "Blasters," did Ditmir imply that only Logan was now "in blood" with the Albanian mob, or that he and Wheeler were both in it?  Because technically, both of them busted him.

 

Probably more Logan since he was always more...aggressive...than Wheeler, maybe.

[Maherjunkie]

Wheeler is female so she is off the hook.

[WendyCR72]

Wheeler is female so she is off the hook.

 

I'd hope the writers aren't that sexist, especially since a few were actually women!  :-P

[Maherjunkie]

They said in the ep they don't hurt women or children.

[Donny Ketchum]

I'd hope the writers aren't that sexist, especially since a few were actually women!  :-P

No, not at all.  At one point in the episode, it was said that only men could be "in blood."  Women really were off the hook.  Actually, the would-have-been massacre at the ice cream truck Skater had lived in was only avoided because Wheeler, a woman, was present, as well as a little boy.  Women and children stop "in blood" killings from happening.

[WendyCR72]

No, not at all.  At one point in the episode, it was said that only men could be "in blood."  Women really were off the hook.  Actually, the would-have-been massacre at the ice cream truck Skater had lived in was only avoided because Wheeler, a woman, was present, as well as a little boy.  Women and children stop "in blood" killings from happening.

 

I must have missed that detail (or forgot it!). Well, at least it now makes sense as to why only Logan was threatened.

[Donny Ketchum]

Watching some of the early season six episodes, I'm wondering how Kent didn't end up staying on?  Theresa Randle is a good actress and could've added to the "law" part of the show.  How long did she last before she suddenly vanished?  And did it happen because she was thought of too much of a female Carver?

[WendyCR72]

I honestly don't recall when she left, but it was with little fanfare. One day Kent was there...then poof. But I agree that Theresa Randle was a competent actress and could have stayed on.

 

CI really was lacking in the "Order" part in the end. I always thought it was the "Law" part, too, but the Mothership hath decreed the lawyer part as Order, so...okay!

 

Still, if not Kent, someone should have taken Carver's slot. I once said, since Conviction died a quick death and Casey Novak was on SVU then that Alex Cabot could have gone to CI, but maybe TPTB were leery of having two women named Alex on the show.

[WendyCR72]

Ah, Carlos Leon, a.k.a. Madonna's baby daddy in Interrogation with Goren. I think it was @Eolivet or @Chattygal who once said they respected he acted when he could probably live off the old fame.

 

He's not great, but he worked as what this character was, a hot-headed underwear model.

[WendyCR72]

Still wish we knew what Logan's look about the Barek mention from Ross was about. Olivet mentioned Logan trying to sabotage things or words to that effect, but their ending in S5 seemed benign.

[Donny Ketchum]

Still wish we knew what Logan's look about the Barek mention from Ross was about. Olivet mentioned Logan trying to sabotage things or words to that effect, but their ending in S5 seemed benign.

Something must have happened during the break prior to Ross's arrival, because that's the only thing I could see explaining that reaction.

 

Oh, and it's not coming on this week, but I have no clue why they had Logan warn Rodgers that firing that incompetent coroner in "Blasters" would come back to haunt her if we never got to see it come to pass.

[Donny Ketchum]

"Maltese Cross" was on last night during the ION marathon.  And the beginning has me scratching my head.  If the police and firefighters are so against each other, how come Logan gets three or four of them attacking him while Wheeler only gets attacked by one or possibly two?

[WendyCR72]

"Maltese Cross" was on last night during the ION marathon.  And the beginning has me scratching my head.  If the police and firefighters are so against each other, how come Logan gets three or four of them attacking him while Wheeler only gets attacked by one or possibly two?

 

Probably because Logan made the incendiary comment of "not swinging that way" or words to that effect. Wheeler just got caught in the fray.

[WendyCR72]

One thing, upon re-watching S6, that I have noticed with the episodes all at once is how Warren Leight, even then, seemed to make the "ripped from the headlines" episodes so obvious, i.e. "Masquerade" (sort of a take on JonBenet Ramsey, IMO) and one coming in this week's since S6 will be finishing, "Bombshell". The latter, I really feel sorry for both Chris Noth and Julianne Nicholson in this one. I realize it's a ripoff of Anna Nicole Smith and her son, Daniel. But that one...that one I do cringe at and can barely watch it since it is so over the top. And Kristy Swanson (Original Buffy the Vampire Slayer) did a good Anna Nicole facsimile, but it was just so "out there". I think the real folks were already so off the wall that trying to dramatize them made them look like cartoons. Or the subject should have been skipped entirely.

 

So, yeah, I missed the subtle nature of the earlier seasons.

 

And next week, "Senseless" will be on again. Always nice to see Ben Vereen and hothead Mike Logan against Ross, but that one makes me uncomfortable for a more "real" reason: It lives up to the title, and the initial crime is just so scary and sad. Noth did a great job with that one.