Archie - General Discussion

[BetterButter]

 

[ProudMary]

Ack, I have to get another streaming service?!? I've been toying with a BritBox subscription for a while. This may just be the series that pushes me over the edge. "CBS Sunday Morning" had a segment about Archie today.

 

[EtheltoTillie]

Interesting so far. The guy playing Cary really nails it. His childhood was a horror. 

[baileythedog]

Jason Isaac is fantastic in this role. He has the gait and the speech patterns just right. 

I absolutely love Cary Grant and have read every biography, seen every documentary and tracked down the autobiographical series he wrote for Ladies Home Journal back in the 60s. 

Aside from some playing with time and chronology of events, this is so far ringing largely true.  They've made some dramatic changes that don't make a lot of sense, i.e. Elias and Elsie Leach did have a child that died, but he died of meningitis at 1 year old, dying the year before Archie was even born.  Archie's mom was very likely suffering from post-partum depression and grief even before Archie was born. 

Because much of this was based on Dyan Cannon's book (and with she and Jennifer Grant as producers), the show has to wrangle Grant's best known movie of that era and Dyan into the same timeline so it appears they're shooting "North By Northwest" in 1961 instead of 1958 when the movie actually came out.  

It appears they also have Cary finding out that his mother was still alive a few years later than he actually did in real life.  (Or they've misrepresented the dates to which he was married to Barbara Hutton.)

At any rate, these are small quibbles and, by and large, I'm impressed with the creative approach taken to this series.  

The duality that Archie / Cary struggled with his whole life is, not incidentally, the basic theme of Don Draper in "Mad Men" as well.  There are so many bits and elements of Cary Grant that Mad Men used to flesh out Don Draper.  (It's no coincidence that Don Draper is an advertising executive circa 1960; the same time frame of "North By Northwest" when Cary Grant plays ad man Roger Thornhill.   The opening shot of "Mad Men" is a behind the head shot of Don Draper that mimics the behind the head shot we have of Cary Grant in "Notorious".  Don Draper, despite his professional success, can never find personal happiness or escape his history as Dick Whitman any more than Cary can escape Archie Leach.)

At any rate. I'm very glad this series was made.  Bravo to Jennifer Grant / Dyan Cannon for pulling it together. 

[baileythedog]

One thing I'm annoyed by as there doesn't seem to be any posted schedule online as to when we can expect episodes #3 and #4 to be published on the platform.  For a show that's already run in the UK and is only 4 episodes long, is there any reason to not drop all four at once?  

Has anyone seen this information anywhere?  

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, baileythedog said:

One thing I'm annoyed by as there doesn't seem to be any posted schedule online as to when we can expect episodes #3 and #4 to be published on the platform.  For a show that's already run in the UK and is only 4 episodes long, is there any reason to not drop all four at once?  

Has anyone seen this information anywhere?  

I saw on Britbox, that the final two episodes will air next Thursday, December 14.

I subscribed to them separately (I have a Britbox via Amazon Prime) because I thought I needed to have the "official" service to see all four. But nope. Unlike Netflix, they didn't drop all episodes yesterday.

So I canceled the Britbox free trial.

Back to the show.

Interesting that they hired Jason Issacs, who's known to always play dastardly villains, to portray one of my all time favorite actors, Cary Grant.

Another thing I've noticed is using Cary's real voice for some of the auditions, scenes and then segueing to the actor's real voice. It breaks my concentration and takes me out. 

Was Dyan Canon really that naive? 

I remember the mini-series about Barbara Hutton {played by Farrah Fawcett) and Cary Grant played by James Read back in the late...80s?

I can't speak to the inaccuracies of Cary's childhood, but I will say that the accent the actor playing Hitchcock is all WRONG. I've heard and seen Hitchcock in interviews. This guy is nowhere near close.

After watching this, I think I'll hunt down the real interview/conversation with Cary Grant.

But Notorious will ALWAYS be my favorite movie. Followed by North by Northwest. I remember when I was a teen, that TNT, I think it was played one of his movies where he was a doctor, and the villain was played by...Jose Ferrer-Crisis- and the last line was something about a crisis and calling for a doctor, or something as Ferrer's character

lay dying or something

? I liked it. He conveyed his character's disgust and contempt with such nuance.

[baileythedog]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

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I saw on Britbox, that the final two episodes will air next Thursday, December 14.

Thanks.  I think I had skipped over the language where it said "Next Thursday" since not putting an actual date on that is weird.  Alas.  

Quote

 

Back to the show.

Interesting that they hired Jason Issacs, who's known to always play dastardly villains, to portray one of my all time favorite actors, Cary Grant.

 

Cary Grant is my all time favorite actor as well.  And I like Jason Isaacs quite a bit as an actor, though he isn't one that i traditionally follow or intentionally seek out -- I just always enjoy him when he pops up.  

Having said that, I've watched a couple of interviews where he's talked about how he prepared for this project and I am super impressed. He says that he knew how he could do a Cary Grant impersonation, but that would be boring and not terribly helpful when the part you're really trying to figure out is Archie Leach.  

During his life time, Cary Grant did very few interviews that were recorded, so it isn't obvious how he would speak when he wasn't playing a role, or more specifically, the role of Cary Grant.  

Jason Isaacs spoke about how he was tracking down meeting minutes from Grant's time on corporate boards to get a feel for how he would have spoken off screen and he finally found someone who had illicitly recorded one of Grant's "An Evening With Cary Grant" Q&A's that he was giving near the end of his life.   Evidently that was the secret sauce to helping Isaacs figure out the rhythm of his speech that he'd be normally conversing in.  

I really appreciated all the due diligence that was being done to prepare for this role. 

 

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Another thing I've noticed is using Cary's real voice for some of the auditions, scenes and then segueing to the actor's real voice. It breaks my concentration and takes me out. 

Small voice here: I kind of like it. 

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Was Dyan Canon really that naive? 

She was 22 or 23 when she met him.   So maybe.  

Also, it is really pretty weird to have been effectively plucked out of a middling TV show, as a near unknown, by one of the world's biggest film stars.  That, coupled with the age difference, must have been truly disorienting. 

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I remember the mini-series about Barbara Hutton {played by Farrah Fawcett) and Cary Grant played by James Read back in the late...80s?

Yes, that was called "Poor Little Rich Girl - the Barbara Hutton Story."  And yes! James Read!  (Had nearly forgotten about him -- I always really liked him as an actor.  Cannot for the life of me remember how he did in that role, though.  As I recall, even though their marriage failed, I believe Grant stayed fairly close to his stepson (via Hutton) until his early death in a plane crash.

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I can't speak to the inaccuracies of Cary's childhood, but I will say that the accent the actor playing Hitchcock is all WRONG. I've heard and seen Hitchcock in interviews. This guy is nowhere near close.

Agreed. I really like the actor playing Grant's lawyer / agent Stanley Fox.  I honestly think HE'D make a better Hitchcock.  (Loved him as Prime Minister Harold Wilson in "The Crown").

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After watching this, I think I'll hunt down the real interview/conversation with Cary Grant.

I don't think they exist as recorded pieces.  He was truly traveling around performing those in small college towns and had a strict no recording policy. 

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But Notorious will ALWAYS be my favorite movie. Followed by North by Northwest. I remember when I was a teen, that TNT, I think it was played one of his movies where he was a doctor, and the villain was played by...Jose Ferrer-Crisis- and the last line was something about a crisis and calling for a doctor, or something as Ferrer's character

  Reveal spoiler

lay dying or something

? I liked it. He conveyed his character's disgust and contempt with such nuance.

 

NxNW is my favorite Grant / Hitchcock film -- then Notorious.  Overall, my favorite Cary Grant film is "The Awful Truth."   Just fantastic. 

[EtheltoTillie]

The factual quibble that I caught was the incorrect timing of North By Northwest. 

Otherwise, I'm handwaving the rest.

NBN is one of my fave movies ever, plus fave Cary and fave Hitchcock.

Other fave Cary Grant movies are tied between Philadelphia Story and Holiday.  I hate Bringing up Baby (I know, I know--UO).  I can't even watch it halfway through without giving up.  So cringey.  I hate humor set around misunderstandings. 

Oh, wait--Cary as a doctor.  Another fave Cary Grant movie is People Will Talk.  With Jeanne Crain.  I just love it. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Holiday is on TCM tonight at 10 PM. 

[MMEButterfly]

 

What about Arsenic and Old Lace?

[QQQQ]

This is interesting so far. I wish it wasn't so focused on Cary and Dyan (I understand why it is though). 

 

Hard to choose a favorite Grant movie, but I love The Grass Is Greener and Father Goose.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Wow. I'm not sure how I feel about the last two episodes.

There were some...dialogue that just sounded...anachronistic.

What I did enjoy was seeing the real Cary Grant at the end with the videos and pictures.

[baileythedog]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Wow. I'm not sure how I feel about the last two episodes.

There were some...dialogue that just sounded...anachronistic.

What I did enjoy was seeing the real Cary Grant at the end with the videos and pictures.

I enjoyed the real photos as videos as well.  (Though there wasn't anything I hadn't already seen before.)

And I admit to being a little verklempt at the final bow Cary Grant took at the conclusion of his "Conversation", along with the other three iterations of Archie Leach.  "I think I hear my exit music."  😭😭😭

I wasn't bothered by anachronistic dialogue -- not after the entire series had anachronistic music and other cues throughout.  "Jet Boy / Jet Girl" for Archie's arrival in NYC was a particularly apt musical choice for subtext of his possible (likely) bi-sexuality.  

All in all, a tour de force perfomance of screenwriting by Jeff Pope and acting by Jason Isaacs.  I was not as taken in by the actress portraying Dyan Cannon, but that could just be because outside of a few of her roles (i.e. "Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice") and her marriage to Cary, I don't know much about her.   

From the story depicted on screen, I full believe he was a controlling figure to his wives (that certainly would have been an inherited trait) but Dyan Cannon also seemed like kind of a pill as well.  Their age difference and life experience was far too vast to ever bridge.  Archie / Cary was a guy traumatized his entire life by his mother -- first by her moody illness and disappearance masked as her "death" and then by her return and her obviously inappropriate attachment to him.  "You don't need a wife, you have me."  Yikes. 

I'm also trying to put myself in the shoes of Cary's half-brother, Eric Leach.  (They did remain in touch in real life.) Eric Leach in the movie, and in life, was kind of a shlubby looking guy.  How are you that closely related to the perfect human specimen of Cary Grant and end up on such the other end of the gene pool?  Poor guy.  Photos of Elsie Leach make it clear that Archie / Cary got her dark eyes and arresting beauty. 

I'm really taken by the fact that he retired for good at age 62.  Imagine Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks just deciding to hang it up now.  Seems incomprehensible.  

Edited December 15, 2023 by baileythedog

[chediavolo]

Well, Cary had his issues for sure with those horrible parents of his especially his father. So I can understand why he was the way he was, but the one thing I can never forgive him for is giving away Diane’s dog. And I don’t understand why she didn’t demand to know where it was, and bring it back. I would have left my husband on the spot if he ever did such a despicable thing 

[Daff]

Caught an interview on TCM prior to an airing of “The Bishop’s Wife” with his daughter (Grant and Cannon). She had only high praise for him, both as a father and as an actor. She looked like a tall slender, brunette version of Dyan.

[baileythedog]

The Paley Center discussion with Jennifer Grant, Dyan Cannon, Jason Isaacs, and Jeff Pope was really quite good.

 

 

[baileythedog]

22 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Well, Cary had his issues for sure with those horrible parents of his especially his father. So I can understand why he was the way he was, but the one thing I can never forgive him for is giving away Diane’s dog. And I don’t understand why she didn’t demand to know where it was, and bring it back. I would have left my husband on the spot if he ever did such a despicable thing 

She didn't leave him on the spot, but quite soon after.

That would certainly be a deal breaker for me, even if I tried to bend over backwards and make sense of his (overblown) concerns. 

[Stevie Nicks]

Is BritBox the only place to see this? I'm loathe to get another streaming service. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 minutes ago, Stevie Nicks said:

Is BritBox the only place to see this? I'm loathe to get another streaming service. 

Yes. You can get the Britbox subscription via Amazon, which is cheaper than directly from Britbox itself.

[baileythedog]

7 hours ago, Stevie Nicks said:

Is BritBox the only place to see this? I'm loathe to get another streaming service. 

I'm not sure if they're still running it, but via Amazon Prime there was a free 7-day trial of BritBox.  

[AstridM]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:19 PM, baileythedog said:

"Jet Boy / Jet Girl" for Archie's arrival in NYC was a particularly apt musical choice for subtext of his possible (likely) bi-sexuality.  

I LOVED this! I was only familiar with the Plastic Bertrand version of that music (how is that possible?) what a discovery!

[AstridM]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:19 PM, baileythedog said:

Dyan Cannon also seemed like kind of a pill as well. 

May I ask in what way? She just came across as assertive and someone who wanted to have a career and enjoy her life to me.

[Daff]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:08 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. You can get the Britbox subscription via Amazon, which is cheaper than directly from Britbox itself.

Sadly, it seems the cheap turns out expensive. That via Amazon subscription has gone up $1 per month ($12 per year) each year for the last 4 years. It seems as if the offerings are fewer as well. Hard to find a series you can view without additional money or ads.

[baileythedog]

On 12/31/2023 at 10:39 AM, AstridM said:

May I ask in what way? She just came across as assertive and someone who wanted to have a career and enjoy her life to me.

I was thinking the scene were she had a complete over-reaction to his desire for his on-screen persona to have a plausible romantic partner.  He WAS nervous playing opposite Audrey Hepburn in "Charade", and not unreasonably so as he had his pulse on who is audience was and what they wanted from him.  He was right to consider his "brand" something to be managed carefully.   Who he hooked up with in his private life (i.e someone younger than Audrey Hepburn) was beside the point and her storming off because she was conflating the two was childish.  

I can agree that she was assertive and wanted to enjoy her life and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. I did think it was weird that she was so adamant about starting a family and then immediately wanting to go on location to work. I'm pretty obviously a staunch feminist but even I think a mother wanting to hand a newborn off to a nanny is a bit selfish. 

Again, I know very little about Dyan Cannon. My impression of her is based pretty solely on what I saw in the series so I could be very off based with this assessment. 

[AstridM]

37 minutes ago, baileythedog said:

I was thinking the scene were she had a complete over-reaction to his desire for his on-screen persona to have a plausible romantic partner.  He WAS nervous playing opposite Audrey Hepburn in "Charade", and not unreasonably so as he had his pulse on who is audience was and what they wanted from him.  He was right to consider his "brand" something to be managed carefully.   Who he hooked up with in his private life (i.e someone younger than Audrey Hepburn) was beside the point and her storming off because she was conflating the two was childish.  

I can agree that she was assertive and wanted to enjoy her life and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. I did think it was weird that she was so adamant about starting a family and then immediately wanting to go on location to work. I'm pretty obviously a staunch feminist but even I think a mother wanting to hand a newborn off to a nanny is a bit selfish. 

Again, I know very little about Dyan Cannon. My impression of her is based pretty solely on what I saw in the series so I could be very off based with this assessment. 

Men have babies and immediately go back to work . . .

[baileythedog]

7 hours ago, AstridM said:

Men have babies and immediately go back to work . . .

Understood.  Fully get the contradiction.

Biologically (and psychologically), though, mothers offer something to babies that men simply cannot (effectively) in their earliest stages. 

Again, I am as feminist as is possible, but pushing off the care of an infant in favor of work (if you do not economically need to) is not a mature decision.