S01.E06: Unless You Trusted Someone

[paulvdb]

Quote

After being kidnapped and taken to a mysterious compound, Jules attempts to escape captivity with the help of an unusual new friend, while Lucy and Kira chase down a lead looking to uncover how Jules was created.

Premiered today on Australian streaming service STAN.

[DoctorAtomic]

Kira printed a second Eleanor after Lucy escaped?! Manning, come on, literally your entire life says this isn't a good idea. And she's still alive?

I'm wondering how Kira disposed of real Eleanor if Eleanor v2.0 is still getting grants and flying all over the place like nothing happened. I like how the show didn't even make it a big deal. I thought we were having another flashback. 

I guess Paul is going to be delaying the answers like the usual villain. The show has been going fast with the plot so I suppose someone has to slow it down.

Couldn't Jules just run through the sound field? I know it's supposed to be painful, but there's not any physical barrier. Or could you go over it?

Lucas isn't a Quaker anymore? Or was that the same girlfriend he brought to the blood drive? 

I'm guessing Jules was a test run of the new machine to see if it worked. I don't know where'd they get the scan from such a young Eleanor though. 

Talk about Frankenstein's monster. This was a wild ride of an episode. 

[justmehere]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Kira printed a second Eleanor after Lucy escaped?! Manning, come on, literally your entire life says this isn't a good idea. And she's still alive?

I'm wondering how Kira disposed of real Eleanor if Eleanor v2.0 is still getting grants and flying all over the place like nothing happened. I like how the show didn't even make it a big deal. I thought we were having another flashback. 

This really confused me. I thought it was generally known that Eleanor had died. Also, what's the timing? Kira didn't agree to print a full person until after Eleanor died, yes? That had to have taken time to perfect. So, how was Eleanor's death not known? Even if she travels, that's not just a week or two or even a month or two to go from individual organs to creating both Lucy and Eleanor-2.0, presumably very close to each other time-wise.

Plus, Lucy didn't have any memory, but Eleanor-2.0 does? So there must have been some modifications to the process... when did that happen? Kira was adamant about not printing any more, yet there have been improvements since Lucy? The timing is not at all clear to me.

Which leads to...

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm guessing Jules was a test run of the new machine to see if it worked. I don't know where'd they get the scan from such a young Eleanor though. 

More confusion here, for me, with how the process works and the timing of it all. There was a brief glimpse on a screen of "Eleanor Age 56", which I guess was her age when she died, and yet Lucy was printed younger - how? - and with a different name, so, while Kira printed her because of her sense of loss, Lucy wasn't meant to be her replacement wife. Which - wouldn't that be more painful? 

Anyway - so is there an aging factor in the printing process? The print starts as a fetus and grows, and they stop it where they want, hence Jules and Lucy? I'm obviously missing something here. 

I appreciate that they kind of slipped in that Kira printed another older version of Eleanor despite Kira's supposed objections to continuing, but I wish they'd offered more information. Even if Lucy was for the corporate project and older Eleanor was for Kira herself, the timing is still screwy. 

Separate note -- Darros is deluding himself, thinking that he will live forever by printing a younger version of himself. He will still die, and it will be a different person living on. Plus, he must know that Lucy didn't have memories and obviously that Jules doesn't, so presumably Xander doesn't either. 

[DoctorAtomic]

The first Lucy that was printed was based on the scan they did in the flashback episode where we learned Eleanor can't have kids. So that's the only data they had for Eleanor. What Kira was going to get out of it, I don't know. She may have thought that the Lucy would have all the Eleanor memories and they'd just pick up where they left off, but that's still a lot of explaining to do. 

There was a timestamp that said "one month after Lucy escaped", then we had John say they could print older Eleanor 2.0. I thought that data was based on the scan they took of her before the neuron printing experiment. My best guess, conservatively, is that Eleanor 2.0 had to be three months at least since Eleanor died. That's a tight window. You factor in that she dies, even if immediately Kira agrees to print Lucy, they still needed to design the lens. And, prior to Lucy, they printed the bird first. So three months is very ambitious. Then Lucy escapes *then* another month passes and they print the new Eleanor. That's a long time since she dies. 

When Eleanor-for-real first forgot the way to the pool, iirc, she said she took a leave of absence. So that means, no pay, no email, no meeting with students. If it was "only" six months, that I can actually buy, for a university environment. Maybe a postdoc or two were in her lab, so they ostensibly take over. That's entirely possible. That may not explain Kira just saying she fell down at the pool though. 

I mean, I'm working like regular, and I haven't had any face to face contact with anyone for about 4 weeks.  

I also don't think they had to rebuild the machine totally, more like retro fitting. 

But I thought everyone knew she died too. The show only showed Kira in bed with her and then meeting with Darros. So that really could have only been a matter of hours. If Eleanor was on the leave of absence, the university isn't expecting to hear from her. 

As far as Jules goes, I have no idea where they got her data. Maybe they used the Lucy scan and made some modifications that printed a younger version. It's clear she's young Eleanor, so they had to have done something like that. 

It seems like the mother had no idea and just wanted to adopt a girl. They weren't counting on Lucy and Jules ever meeting. Then again, you're printing a brilliant scientist so just letting her go seems like a waste. 

A quick search does say Eleanor 2.0 was printed a month after Lucy escaped. That seems a little fast though since Josh brought her the new data at the same time. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Let's not also forget that Lucas doesn't know what's going on either. 

[justmehere]

Thanks for laying out all of that. I didn't recall a lot of the details re: scans or even Eleanor's leave of absence, which does make it all more possible, but the timeline still seems tight. And Lucas - has been away at college? If it only took 3 months or so for all this to happen, then maybe that's possible, but it still seems shaky to me. Repeat viewings needed for me to recall all the bits and pieces, which I may do at some point, likely when it's done and I can see it all together. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I posted right after I watched it so the details were fresh in my mind. But the timeline stood out to me for sure. 

Lucas was away at college but he still met up with Kira and Uncle Felix at the bar where they scored the coke. So he's not far away. Maybe he's not the type to call a lot or just drop by, but even 3+ months of no contact at all strikes me as a little ooc given they looked like a healthy family. I mean, Kira could just say to him that Eleanor is away at a conference, but it's not like he can't text with both of them. 

I think the show was trying to be a little too clever with Kira coming home after talking to Lucy and then Eleanor is sitting at the kitchen table. Maybe go right after that to 'one month after Lucy escaped; three months ago' or something like that. Because the flashback episode covered the time after Lucy escaped to Eleanor's death which is 2+ years, but they never really lined it up to give us some calibration. 

Printing the second Eleanor happened *fast*. 

The show has been good so far laying out the plot, so they might clear more up. 

[RachelKM]

I really enjoyed this episode.  We finally seem to have all the elements of what we need for movement.  But it took awhile to get here and the flashbacks to only, alternatively, 1 mo, 3mo, or 2 yrs, in which everyone essentially looks the same can be a little confusing.  It's not even enough time for significant hair changes.

I'm a little confused by the timeline as well. But I think of worked it out.... ishWe have, what, 23 years from Kira meeting Eleanor to "the present"?  And in that time:

• Kira sees El at her lecture
• Kira joins, works on, and leaves El's project

6mo to a year min (so 22 yrs ago)

• They meet up again the next Christmas and get together
• They moved in together, got married, decided to have a child (not entirely certain of the order on those last two)
• They discover El can't carry a child
• Kira carries and has Lucas

Conservatively that would be 2 years (even for U-Haul in the second date tropes, that's fast). So up to 20 yrs ago

• Lucas graduated from High School 
• Lucas goes to college

2-3 years ago (assuming Lucas was at least 17)

• El's early onset Alzheimer's progressed late stage (I can't remember if the lost on the way to the pool was before Lucas left but they hid it from him)
• Kira developed and attempted the neuron transplant
• El died
• Kira and Josh built the printer, tested it and made Lucy
• Lucy escaped

This has been established as 2 years ago I think.

• Printed Ev2 (with no one, not even Lucas being aware she died - WTF Kira!)
• Printed Jules 
• Printed Xander 

It mostly lines up, but the timeline between Lucas leaving and printing Lucy is WILD.

On 7/29/2024 at 5:33 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Couldn't Jules just run through the sound field? I know it's supposed to be painful, but there's not any physical barrier. Or could you go over it?

 

It looked as though as soon as you got close to it, it became debilitating. It also sounded like that remained the case until you got far enough on the other side.  She likely would have collapsed again before she even reached the sound line. And if even she didn't, she it's unlikely she could maintain long enough to get out of it's range. 

At least, that's how it was presented to her.  However, something that should have tipped her off that he may be lying (or it was a mistake) is that the first time, she experienced the sudden onset of debilitating sound was when she was just near the mushroom terrarium. She wasn't traveling in any direction but had stopped to look at it. There was no visible sign of the barrier. When she woke up Zander said she must gotten too close to the barrier but gave no explanation for why it stopped, didn't try to indicate where she should be wary of being or point out the barrier, or seem at all concerned about their surroundings despite still being pretty close to where she collapsed.

Then when Xander took her to barrier, there were glowing red lights and they were physically close enough to really see them.

Plus it makes very little sense for the mushrooms to be grown that close to the sound field if they have to be regularly fed wth mulch by a person who my get wallopped by the sound barrier if he or she leaned the wrong way while at it or would have to shut the barrier off when there.

It makes much more sense that you actually can be closer to the barrier than where she was when she was knocked out and that Paul knocked her out to set up the meeting with Xander. So maybe she could have run through afterall....

[DoctorAtomic]

Lucas was born via surrogate not Kira. 

iirc they said something at the dinner here. 

[RachelKM]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Lucas was born via surrogate not Kira. 

iirc they said something at the dinner here. 

I could swear Kira said something about carrying the baby when they were in the elevator after the doctor visit.  But it went by pretty quickly so I could easily be wrong. 

I only remember them discussing the sperm donor in the dinner conversation. 

It doesn't change the timeline much other than adding some time because selecting and coordinating with a gestational surrogate is a whole thing all by itself.

[DoctorAtomic]

They did in the elevator but Eleanor said no because of Kira's career.