S02.E07: A Necessary Death

[AnimeMania]

Salvor begins to question the Mentalics’ motives. Hober Mallow’s proposal to the Spacers meets resistance. Brothers Constant and Poly stand trial.

Premiere Date: August 25, 2023         Apple TV+    

[Ottis]

So… everyone sucks?

[Ms.Lulu]

I am loving this season. I can't predict it, the characters are developed, and it look forward to Fridays to watch it.

Hari and Salvor can't both be dead, but Hari has already been dead. And Gael wouldn't believe that both have left her.

And I am hoping that Day will be betrayed by Dawn and Dusk.

[marinw]

On 8/26/2023 at 3:35 PM, Ms.Lulu said:

I am loving this season.

Me too! There is so much to unpack each week.

Can't accept Salvor is dead, Gaal will turn on Tallin for sure if that is the case.

So the Spacers are the Guild Navigators of this Empire.

Day continues to be a huge dick, and Sareth has realized she is in over her head. Although Day did have a good point about Holo Hari violating Constant.

That Gyno exam reminded me of The Handmaid's Tale, with Wombs being property. 

Nice call-out to the three laws of robotics! 

Edited August 28, 2023 by marinw

[marinw]

I predict that Sareth will attempt to kill Demerzel. Not just for vengeance but because it will weaken Day who has relied on Demerzel his entire life. I believe Sareth was honest about not minding Day and Demerzel having sex, but she can’t overlook the other issues.

I continue to worry about Poly and Constant. Imprisonment by Empire has been referenced several times as absolutely horrific 😬. I'm STILL thinking about Azura from Season 1! Bel’s years in the labor prison was actually one of the better options.

Not sure what a "Naked Cell" is, but it sounds like something you should avoid.

Edited August 28, 2023 by marinw

[astrohip]

On 8/26/2023 at 12:35 PM, Ms.Lulu said:

I look forward to Fridays to watch it.

 

I can't wait that long. I try to watch it Thursday evening when it first streams.

 

20 hours ago, marinw said:

Nice call-out to the three laws of robotics! 

I was listening to the official Foundation podcast, and on this week's podcast, they had the guy who wrote this episode. He mentioned that he was a huge Asimov Robotics fan, and he intentionally found a way to work that in.

 

1 hour ago, marinw said:

I predict that Sareth will attempt to kill Demerzel.

If she does attempt it, she'll fail. Demerzel is too omnipotent.

I think Day is starting to realize this marriage is a mistake. I predict by the end of the season he changes his mind, and either he or Demerzel will assassinate her.

[marinw]

Still not clear on why Demerzel had Sareth’s family killed.

Poor Bel. He is an excellent leader who commands respect either in a prison (he tried to get his fellow inmates freed) or on his own ship. He seems like a good person overall, yet he is terrified of what Day could do to him and his husband. One of the reasons the Empire will fall, ruling by absolute fear has its limits.

[marinw]

I joined Primetimer (originally Previously TV) so that I could discuss The Expanse. I wouldn’t put Foundation quite at that level, as The Expanse had a more disciplined, coherent narrative. Yet the shows resemble each other in that they are huge epics with a seemingly tiny audience, or at least a very limited media presence. Both shows are visually gorgeous, although Foundation looks a lot like Star Wars. Both shows have strong performances by a mixture of known and unknown actors. And both shows have Jared Harris.

Edited August 28, 2023 by marinw

[CarpeFelis]

Hey, Lee Pace: dais is pronounced day-ess, not dee-ess.

[marinw]

I'm generally not a romantic person, romance is usually the least interesting part of any show for me. But I do love a mature relationship between two adults: Bill Buchanan and Karen Hayes on 24. Holden and Naomi on The Expanse. And now Bel and Glawen! There seems to be quite an age difference, but Bel's time in prison probably aged him.

I fear things will end badly for these two.

Salvor has the Christopher Pike plot armour: If we know her fate later, she can't be dead now. (?)

Edited August 28, 2023 by marinw

[marinw]

So once the Empire falls, will ALL the planets fall into chaos? Are trillions of people so dependent of Empire for resources and travel that they can't govern themselves? Even Bel has enough Stockholm Syndrome to believe that Empire is better than the alternative.

I realize that some planets would do better then others due to a particular planet's natural resources, local government, and many other factors.

CMIIW, but I believe that Asimov was thinking of Rome when he wrote the Foundation novels. A better scenario would not be a complete collapse of the Empire, but rather a gradual draw down of power as various worlds gain independence, bound by something like Star Trek's Federation rather then an overbearing Star Wars or Dune-Like Empire.  (The best analogy I can think of is the British Empire.) Did Hari consider this in his calculations?

Edited August 29, 2023 by marinw

[astrohip]

6 hours ago, marinw said:

So once the Empire falls, will ALL the planets fall into chaos? Are trillions of people so dependent of Empire for resources and travel that they can't govern themselves? Even Bel has enough Stockholm Syndrome to believe that Empire is better than the alternative.

I realize that some planets would do better then others due to a particular planet's natural resources, local government, and many other factors.

CMIIW, but I believe that Asimov was thinking of Rome when he wrote the Foundation novels. A better scenario would not be a complete collapse of the Empire, but rather a gradual draw down of power as various worlds gain independence, bound by something like Star Trek's Federation rather then an overbearing Star Wars or Dune-Like Empire.  (The best analogy I can think of is the British Empire.) Did Hari consider this in his calculations?

Some thoughts, and I realize both you & I are just speculating, but it's fun to do...

First, your last sentence: Technically, Hari didn't "consider" anything in his calculations. Psychohistory is supposed to be pure Math, so the numbers lead where they lead. He looked at different scenarios, and saw the best path was the 1,000 year Interregnum, as versus 10,000 of thousands of years.

As far as the chaos, again pure speculation. The Prime Radiant showed him that when the Empire collapsed, the entire Galaxy would ultimately fall into chaos. It wouldn't be surprising, as without a firm leader, you would have hundreds and thousands of planets all vying for power. War, then its aftermath, which is even worse.

But hey, who knows?

[marinw]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:04 PM, astrohip said:

But hey, who knows?

And who knows if psychohistory isn't a load of BS? All Empires fall eventually. The Foundation spending the past 100+ years developing their technology to surpass Empire's Tech seems more self-fulfilling prophesy than anything else. 

I agree that the Prime Radiant is an extremely impressive piece of technology, but its design can be credited to Yanna more than Hari

[astrohip]

14 hours ago, marinw said:

And who knows if psychohistory isn't a load of BS?

In both the books and this show, we're shown that psychohistory works. It's literally predicted certain moments in history before they actually happened.

Is it perfect? Does it need a Second Foundation to give it a push every now and then? Will it still work as more time passes?

Who knows? That's why we watch!