S02.E08: Returning Point

[raven]

Quote

The group sets a new plan into motion. A relationship is leveraged and a betrayal forces others to take action.

AMC+ airdate: 2021.11.14 AMC airdate: 2021.11.21

Be mindful if you participate in the Live Posting Topic - that topic will follow the show as it airs on AMC, so AMC+ viewers will be one episode ahead.  DO NOT SPOIL those who are watching on AMC.

[Smad]

This time we get to see a plan unfold while it's happening instead of knowing in advance. That was a nice change. Huck almost completely blew her cover when she killed the Perimeter's 'Gregory'. Jadis is definitely getting even more suspicious. I was surprised Leo managed to convince all the scientists. I mean those people being out in the wild after living behind walls, slim chances of survival for them. They ended last episode on the Silas/Huck cliffhanger and nothing came of it, go figure. Dennis is definitely toast after this and I hate it. They need to start killing main characters and Elton should have been on the chopping block this episode. He's got no point this Season and his unwillingness to pull the trigger on the soldier should have doomed him. This is Walking Dead after all, you kill or you die.

You know guys, why won't you just explain to Mason what is going on? He seems like a decent guy so just tell him his daddy is a genocidal manic. That way he can play a willing hostage, so to speak. Why keep him in the dark? That's just screaming for things to go wrong. You had all the time in the world while under lockdown.

[Mr. Sparkle]

These last few episodes are much better than the first 16 or so. Makes you think the show might have been decent if they paced it better. 

That gunfight was entertaining, but... improbable. 

[Smad]

22 hours ago, Superclam said:

These last few episodes are much better than the first 16 or so. Makes you think the show might have been decent if they paced it better.

What would have made it better would have been a CR(M) focused show, period. And if they still wanted to center it around teenagers, structure it differently. You can even keep their tragic backstories in some form. Have the Bennetts be from Campus Colony, but when their father gets the invite from CR(M), the girls go with him. Silas could have been working at the culling post from the beginning (CRM saw his potential as a soldier and took him from Omaha). Elton could have been an orphan picked up by CR(M).

Since they were so invested in flashbacks in S1, they could have shown us how all the kids ended up at CR(M). And since the show is from the POV of the sisters, we follow them as they get to know CR(M). Which would also give us an origin story in S1 as to how the CR came to be. And because they come from a more liberal setup (Campus), Hope can still be the rebellious one at the beginning. She would try and find a way to sneak out of the research facility which leads her to the culling post to meet Silas. She would also connect with Elton in class over their nihilistic view of the world and take him with her to the culling post so he can sneak out too to satisfy his desire to see the world. Then Iris joins in on the fun and we have our group of 4. Felix could have been the Bennetts personal security brought with them from Campus. Huck could have still been an undercover spy first at Campus, then going with the Bennetts as the second security detail but still undercover. The CRM would then have someone in place to try and mold Hope. Added bonus for a second spy along with Lyla.

And because of the teenagers sneaking around, towards the end of S1, they would get wind of Campus and Omaha being destroyed by CRM. End the Season on them telling their dad and you have the setup for Season 2 with the promise of an inside rebellion.

[Mr. Sparkle]

@Smad, I'll just say your idea is as good as the one we actually got, if not better. The CR is the interesting part in this whole mess, so of course we're likely to get very little of it. Are they saving it for the 100% Going To Happen Rick Movies? Time will tell. Or not. 

Unless Elton revenge kills Hope at the end, which seems increasingly unlikely, is there any point to his character at all? 

[OoohMaggie]

On 11/16/2021 at 1:53 AM, Superclam said:

These last few episodes are much better than the first 16 or so. Makes you think the show might have been decent if they paced it better. 

I was undecided as to whether things were improving, or I was just battered into submission by so many months of awfulness, I think you’re right 😱

On 11/16/2021 at 1:53 AM, Superclam said:

That gunfight was entertaining, but... improbable. 

You mean they can’t fit a small nuclear device into a hand grenade? 😂

[borealis]

At this point I'm Team CRM. My hate for Iris & Percy has made me not give two shits about the rest of those spoiled, snotty posers. I like Jadis & Huck. I want it to end with Huck going all in with the CRM, them taking all the douchebags as Test Subjects, then having a big industrial techno dance party, complete with 'Empty' Iris & 'Empty' Percy shackled & snapping at them! Good times!!

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

I was undecided as to whether things were improving, or I was just battered into submission by so many months of awfulness, I think you’re right 😱

You mean they can’t fit a small nuclear device into a hand grenade? 😂

Y'know, I watched this episode on the 15th, and I remember making the comment you quoted, but it took me until I was typing this comment to remember the gunfight in question. Impressive amount of plot armor. 

[borealis]

7 minutes ago, Superclam said:

Y'know, I watched this episode on the 15th, and I remember making the comment you quoted, but it took me until I was typing this comment to remember the gunfight in question. Impressive amount of plot armor. 

My eyes rolled so hard at that. And I think I'm too old to watch or care about teenagers pontificating on life. I just wish this entire series had been about the CRM in the first place, as Smad said. I want to know where the hell they get coffee. HOW in the WORLD do they manufacture newspapers, for crying out loud!! I'm done with teens barely out in the world thinking they know jack shit & wanting to bring everyone around them to ruin.

I'm glad this is about to end. If it weren't, I'd do like I did with FTWD & give up after 2 seasons. I'm ride or die w/TWD but glad it's ending too. 

 

[rmontro]

I still think this show is getting better as it approaches its eventual end.  Someone here mentioned a week or two ago that Hope, or the actress who plays Hope, seems to lack energy this season.  I can't un-see it since it was brought up.  It's like she's depressed or something.  She has no fizz, she's like a carbonated drink which has gone flat.  I don't know if it's an acting choice, the evolution of her character, or maybe she's read the script and isn't happy about how it comes out.  

Hope we get to see Rick before this is over, or at least some explanation of what Jadis was hoping to gain by sending him there.  Shoot, maybe Michonne might even turn up.

[borealis]

41 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Hope we get to see Rick before this is over, or at least some explanation of what Jadis was hoping to gain by sending him there.  Shoot, maybe Michonne might even turn up.

Yes please. It's been a long time since World Beyond was announced as a new spin-off, but wasn't a Rick sighting teased? It's probably why I started watching in the first place. I knew it was going to be centered around teens, but still had hope. But why the hell make them either SO unlikable, or just really 'meh'?? It's bad when you're actually ROOTING for the fascist state just to spite brats like Iris! I don't think that's what TPTB were going for.

[Mr. Sparkle]

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

Someone here mentioned a week or two ago that Hope, or the actress who plays Hope, seems to lack energy this season.  I can't un-see it since it was brought up.  It's like she's depressed or something.  She has no fizz, she's like a carbonated drink which has gone flat.  I don't know if it's an acting choice, the evolution of her character, or maybe she's read the script and isn't happy about how it comes out.  

Honestly, I don't remember her being particularly peppy last season. Both of those girls are terrible actresses. I think Hope is a little better than Iris. 

[rmontro]

9 hours ago, Superclam said:

Honestly, I don't remember her being particularly peppy last season. 

She started out as the rebellious scamp though, so maybe that gave her more to do.  Her and Iris have kind of switched places in that regard.  

[Mr. Sparkle]

27 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Her and Iris have kind of switched places in that regard.  

That is true. 

I feel there's a decent story in here, but it's wrapped up in the teen's story, and I don't care about any of them. Very similar to the other 2 shows. 

[Smad]

On 11/23/2021 at 6:03 AM, rmontro said:

It's like she's depressed or something.

I've honestly been wondering if she is on medication in real life. She used to have an eating disorder prior to S1 being shot (and maybe still during I don't know). It's also why she had to have a wig due to hair loss. She has definitely put on weight between Seasons because her face is much rounder and her body is fuller. But that could just be water because she takes anti-depressants maybe. But she really lacks energy this Season. It's either something like that or she read the scripts for the Season, saw her character had nothing to do and then just said to herself 'why bother'.

[rmontro]

4 hours ago, Smad said:

IBut she really lacks energy this Season. It's either something like that or she read the scripts for the Season, saw her character had nothing to do and then just said to herself 'why bother'.

Spoiler

I was actually thinking maybe her character gets killed and that left her discouraged.  Even if this is the last season, maybe she thought she might be able to have a future somewhere in the franchise.  The reason I think that is because in the previews Iris is reacting to something really bad happening.  So I wondered if maybe Hope gets killed.  I don't know why I'm putting this in spoiler quotes, because I don't really know anything.

 

[Smad]

7 hours ago, rmontro said:

  Hide contents

I was actually thinking maybe her character gets killed and that left her discouraged.  Even if this is the last season, maybe she thought she might be able to have a future somewhere in the franchise.  The reason I think that is because in the previews Iris is reacting to something really bad happening.  So I wondered if maybe Hope gets killed.  I don't know why I'm putting this in spoiler quotes, because I don't really know anything.

 

Someone on reddit had this to say...

Spoiler

A poster there in one of the episode threads mentioned that supposedly Alexa did an Instagram Live and she let it slip that her character Hope dies and Huck survives. Now they heard it second hand so they couldn't say for sure if that's true or not. But that post has been wiped.

Alexa has mentioned before I think that she would love to do more in this universe. So maybe it's disappointment. But she does things beyond that. She joined another show in S2 and that Season finished in August this year. I don't know anything about it and she isn't a major character there I think (she was in 7/10 episodes) but if they get a third season and she wasn't killed off there, she has a gig lined up. And probably other stuff to come.

 

[rmontro]

17 minutes ago, Smad said:

Someone on reddit had this to say...

  Reveal spoiler

A poster there in one of the episode threads mentioned that supposedly Alexa did an Instagram Live and she let it slip that her character Hope dies and Huck survives. Now they heard it second hand so they couldn't say for sure if that's true or not. But that post has been wiped.

Alexa has mentioned before I think that she would love to do more in this universe. So maybe it's disappointment. But she does things beyond that. She joined another show in S2 and that Season finished in August this year. I don't know anything about it and she isn't a major character there I think (she was in 7/10 episodes) but if they get a third season and she wasn't killed off there, she has a gig lined up. And probably other stuff to come.

 

Spoiler

Maybe that is the cause for her apparent lack of energy.  It's not unusual for actors and actresses to become closely involved with their characters and identify with them.  One famous incident is Emilia Clarke, who fell into a deep depression when she found out the fate of her character on Game of Thrones.  Maybe Alexa is depressed about what happens with Hope.