S01.E04: The Motherlode

[fountain]

All my podcasts are true crime and scams. For me, I am interested in the psyche of those that do these types of crimes. I am not sure if I am more interested in crimes against women but for sure am more interested in crimes and scams relating to relationships (I.e. people who scam money from friends, crimes that involved people who know each other) and maybe as the other poster mentioned it is a way to protect myself.

This show for example, I really am most interested in what lead Michelle to manage her life with drugs. We all have busy lives but we don’t all take drugs to sleep, to get up, etc. Also I knew Patton  knew about the drugs and some people say supplied them so I wanted to see what lead to that. For me, that is because I have my own anxiety and I work really hard to not mismanage it and I don’t even drink alcohol as it would be far to easy for me self-medicate.  It is interesting to me to see people normalize self-medicating.

It was interesting the conversation about having another kid. IDK, my husband and I don’t really talk to each other in the same style and certainly wouldn’t have a conversation about having a baby over text.

Edited July 26, 2020 by fountain

[Ms.Moon]

On 7/21/2020 at 11:31 AM, chediavolo said:

I just kept thinking. Why clean? Throw it out. Is he going to actually live there still, let alone sleep in that bed?!

And it's obvious she had  a drug problem. I wish we knew more about her life also. Something just feels off to me. Also seems like she had little regard or time for her husband and child. 

I know writers and they just have to write.  They can have families and write but it does require time and space away from them.  I have had to do this as well (I wrote my thesis for my Master’s degree).  It is your job you go to work and don’t spend time with your family it’s exactly the same thing when you’re a writer.  You are working just at home.

[ChromaKelly]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:22 PM, heatherchandler said:

You would think so!  I am also wondering how she got a hold of the fentanyl.

 

You would be amazed at how well most "functioning" drug addicts can function.  Most alcoholics/drug addicts I know are able to work, take care of the kids, etc. until it sometimes comes crashing down.  So many women I know take an insane amount of Xanax.

 

I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw this episode. Drug and alcohol use is very normalized in upper-middle class white women circles. How many times do women joke about needing a Xanax, or drinking as soon as the kids are in bed? The pressure on women to be everything to everyone is insane. I very much empathized with Michelle. I've spent many nights up on my laptop till 2am trying to get something done, and it almost feels like having two lives.  Plus she seems like the type who doesn't want to let people down. 
It's very possible the people close to Michelle, including Patton, had no idea how much she was using and what types of drugs. She may have asked other people to get drugs for her, each thinking they are helping out a friend, and not realizing she was getting pills from others plus her own prescriptions.  

[heatherchandler]

3 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw this episode. Drug and alcohol use is very normalized in upper-middle class white women circles. How many times do women joke about needing a Xanax, or drinking as soon as the kids are in bed? The pressure on women to be everything to everyone is insane. I very much empathized with Michelle. I've spent many nights up on my laptop till 2am trying to get something done, and it almost feels like having two lives.  Plus she seems like the type who doesn't want to let people down. 
It's very possible the people close to Michelle, including Patton, had no idea how much she was using and what types of drugs. She may have asked other people to get drugs for her, each thinking they are helping out a friend, and not realizing she was getting pills from others plus her own prescriptions.  

YES.  It's sad but true.  And full disclosure, I take it myself.   ALL of my friends, and the mothers of my kid's friends joke constantly about needing a xanax and a drink.   

[paramitch]

The detail that haunts me, and that I'm sure haunts Patton too -- is that she was dying when he brought her the coffee, and he didn't know it. And if he had noticed it, maybe she could have been saved. It's heartbreaking.

It reminds me a lot of Heath Ledger, who was breathing when his housekeeper came into his room the day he died, and noticed he was snoring. She left without thinking anything of it, then his masseuse showed up an hour later, and he was either very close to death or already dead at that point.

It's all really sad.

On 7/21/2020 at 6:48 AM, Milburn Stone said:

You could be speaking for me when you write this. The episode intensified my ambivalence about Michelle. She had talent as a writer. But ultimately, she didn't want to finish the book because a finished book can be judged by people, and she was terrified of that judgment.

In that whole section when she flew to NY to beg her publisher for more time? I thought, "Yeah, that's what a writer says when she doesn't want to write the book." Deciding that poring through 39 banker boxes is a better use of your time than writing your book is also what a writer does when she doesn't want to write the book.

The editor for the publishing house who spoke on camera about how excited they all were for Michelle's new find, and how no-brainer their decision was to give her more time? I call bullshit. That's what someone says on camera in order to sell themselves as compassionate, especially when you're talking about a writer who self-destructed. What that editor and her colleagues were really thinking in that meeting, even if they didn't say so to Michelle? "We're never going to see this book, are we?" You know there was pushback to Michelle in that meeting, even if they ultimately acceded to her request. We're just not going to know about it, because it wouldn't be flattering.

There is another interpretation which I can sympathize with. Michelle wanted her book to be not just good, but sensational. She thought with a little more time and investigation, she could make it sensational. I see that possibility, which is why I say I'm ambivalent, as opposed to certain. But my gut is with the first interpretation.

As a working writer and editor, I feel like this is overly harsh. It is hardly unusual for a writer to love and hate the writing process, or to doubt themselves, difficulty meeting a deadline, or have ambivalence about finishing a book.

I absolutely do think Michelle wanted to finish the book, I just think she fell into the trap of thinking that finishing would equal solving at some point. Which instantly put a huge amount of additional pressure on her. Because it is definitely true that finding the killer would benefit the book and its buzz value. 

The book also gave her the opportunity and funding she had never had up to that point -- it legitimized her research process and opened many, many new doors. So I get why she was reveling in the new opportunities for investigation that opened up to her even while trying to fashion it all into a book when new discoveries were being made every day. (I did like seeing her computer files and notes, and seeing how organized she actually was about the book's structure.)

I do think the book got away from her at times. But I also think she genuinely intended to finish it.

On 7/21/2020 at 11:03 AM, cardigirl said:

I think she was somewhat of a perfectionist and this project did consume her, but I have questions about the project, and indeed, all true crime writing and podcasting. I have a number of younger, female co-workers who are very enamored of true crime murder shows/podcasts/books/movies and they cannot seem to get enough of them. I don't understand it. Serial killers scare me.

 I'm not sure if Michelle falls in this category of semi-worshipping the serial killer or being entertained by the information, but she certainly enjoyed the process of researching and finding out as much detail as she could about this person. She took pride in her discoveries and in her ability to be able to put the puzzle together, to be more talented at this above all others. 

I think what set her apart, and this has been mentioned by others, is that she developed a good rapport with the survivors, making them feel safe in telling their stories to her. And she was sharing, towards the end, her discoveries with other investigators. But, in the end, when she felt like she could possible SOLVE the mystery, she became obsessed. 

It's very sad that she wasn't able to pull back and take better care of her health, especially with a young daughter to raise.

I absolutely don't think Michelle was "semi-worshipping the serial killer." I think she empathized powerfully with the victims and that was always her entryway into her fascination with true crime -- she wanted to understand what had happened, and she wanted to find justice for the victims. I think for her, as for many others, the idea of solving these puzzles while seeking psychological understanding was fascinating to her, true, but that the real pull was that comfort that she could counterbalance the evil that had been committed by trying to solve it and provide justice.

On 7/21/2020 at 4:51 PM, Tdoc72 said:

I wonder if Patton ever said anything to her about the drugs. (Not that I blame him in any way.) But in one text (either this week or last week’s episode), she asked him to get some of his mom’s Percocet. For me, that would be a red flag. 

See, I think this depends on the family. In my own family, for instance, my Mom took Darvoset for arthritis pain. She wasn't addicted and didn't need it constantly, but it was always there. So when I tweaked my back at one point while caregiving for her, we didn't think anything of me taking two of her Darvoset (versus going to the doctor, getting checked, getting a prescription, etc.). I didn't misuse it, so we didn't think anything of it. I think that's actually pretty common -- I know my friends are pretty casual about sharing meds here and there.

The irony is, I do have a sister who is a recovered addict, and she herself was a walking pharmacy at the time, who thought nothing of handing out Xanax like candy. I was just really lucky that I don't have any impulse toward pills at all. But she was absolutely mixing meds at Michelle's level (and beyond) when she hit rock bottom -- I'm grateful she survived it.

So -- where it gets complicated is when you know the person is already on a pretty decent array of meds, like Michelle was. At this point, we know she had prescriptions for Xanax and some kind of opiate, and she also mentioned taking Ambien and something for her ADHD. So then you add in "Can you get me some Percocet?" and I wonder if Patton didn't at least go, "Er, honey, should we talk about this?"

Although honestly, addicts are incredible liars (even to themselves), so I have no doubt Michelle would have simply said, "Oh, don't worry, I'm being careful. I just need something to take the edge off so I can sleep."

On 7/21/2020 at 5:11 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Probably the worst thing that could have happened to Michelle was getting the article published in Los Angeles magazine. It was a good article! Because Michelle was a good writer with a story to tell. But she didn't necessarily have a book in her, and the idea to write one never occurred to her until the literary agent called her and said, "If you turn this into a book, I'll represent you." That was too tempting to turn down, and she started to think "If I could write an article, I could write a book," and she had something to prove to her mother; but it turned out to be a devil's bargain. @marny is right, I think, when she says Michelle could have been very happy devoting all her time to the investigation.

 

I'm glad Michelle got the article published. First off, it was a really stunning article -- haunting and just beautifully written. I don't agree that she "didn't have a book in her." I definitely think she absolutely had it in her to write a book -- and multiple books -- she just fell into a first book that was an incredible challenge and trial by fire on multiple fronts. In a more perfect world, she would have gotten the book deal on a closed case -- basically, a kind of Ann Rule-style piece -- and I think she would have been much more comfortable, speedy, and on deadline. 

I just think the book deal on the Golden State killer was a double-edged sword because it gave her the cachet, funds, and access to really investigate his crimes the way she'd always wanted to, so she had to balance writing and investigation -- because the investigation was just as big a draw to the book as the Golden State Killer subject.

I do think her mother's comment upset and haunted her (it would have done so for me, for sure), and that Michelle wanted to show her (and the world) what she could do.

On 7/21/2020 at 6:25 PM, scrb said:

Did he try to confront her about the drug use?  If she was using heavily, she might have been slipping in taking care of the child and other things when he was on the road.

Honestly, it really doesn't look like Patton had a clue about the level of self-medicating she was doing. Which doesn't surprise me. We never get any reports of her slurring, or seeming drugged or out of it. She appears to have been able to maintain a facade of capable professionalism and functionality even while taking the meds. It also appears that she took the meds mostly for sleeping, so again, the most it seems like he noticed was that she was tired and sometimes hard to wake up.

On 7/21/2020 at 6:40 PM, sistermagpie said:

I'm sure everybody has their own reasons for liking true crime or some true crime, but I assume one reason why it's usually so popular with women is it's a way of dealing with fear in a controlled way, same as horror movies. That's reflected in how omnipresent the threat of rape is throughout the show.

That's reductive, but since we're talking about a really popular phenomenon I feel like there's something simple that ties everyone's individual things together. Plus in her case she seemed to have been drawn to the unsolved case. There have been just a few true crime cases that I've really gotten into researching and they all just have some really mysterious mystery at the center.

But beyond that it's just impossible to explain why somebody likes something that somebody else doesn't like. It seems easy for me to understand why her research here would be really rewarding and addictive even while it was driving her crazy.

As a comic he might be very familiar with people using stuff like this at times. From the texts it seems like he saw her as operating within the normal range of obsessed creator deep into a project.

Well said -- I agree with you on the above (edited for brevity). It doesn't surprise me that true crime is a fascinating for many people, and especially women. It's a way of processing a scary world, in a way -- turning fear into logic, and turning violence into a search for justice. And for women, speaking for myself, I do think there's an element of comfort in the hunting-the-predator aspect.

And yeah, given that they were an affluent couple for whom a casual Xanax would be no big deal, plus Patton's entertainment experience (which would include frequent exposure to the whole kit and caboodle of casual drug use), I definitely understand why he didn't think what she was doing was a big deal.

On 7/22/2020 at 11:52 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That was my assumption too. As an actor who works in Hollywood AND who has been a standup comic since the 80s, he has probably seen a lot of rampant drug use so in comparison, what Michelle was doing probably seemed mild, reasonable, and under control.

This! Exactly. She was taking a few pills to help her sleep, and she was (apparently) very careful about how and when she did so. What makes me sad is the fact that the more research she did, the worse her nightmares, the more pills... aghgh.

On 7/22/2020 at 2:22 PM, heatherchandler said:

You would be amazed at how well most "functioning" drug addicts can function.  Most alcoholics/drug addicts I know are able to work, take care of the kids, etc. until it sometimes comes crashing down.  So many women I know take an insane amount of Xanax.

Yeah, I grew up with an alcoholic parent and have siblings who are addicts, and it's incredible how flawlessly they can function while taking in amounts that would have the rest of us groggy and slurring.

On 7/22/2020 at 2:27 PM, marny said:

My understanding about the fentanyl is that Michelle was prescribed it for chronic pain. But since it sounds like she was also taking additional meds that might not have been prescribed to her, it’s probably the combination as wells as the quantities of unprescribed meds (which a doctor probably would have warned against) that caused her death. 

Definitely. And I don't think it's that uncommon, either, sadly.

On 7/22/2020 at 4:47 PM, marny said:

I don’t know whether she obtained it legally or not, but fentanyl is absolutely prescribed for people with chronic pain and not just cancer patients. I have personal knowledge of this.  

Ditto. I watched my sister slide all the way down pain management into addiction, and fentanyl was constantly prescribed to her (which flabbergasts me now). Patches and suckers, plus opiates, etc. (her journey was pretty much literally the one you see in the show "Dopesick").

On 7/22/2020 at 10:17 PM, JakeyJokes said:

The book itself doesn’t go into much detail about how close she was with her father and how detached she was from her mother. I do think that comment from her mother, on her freaking wedding day, after a lifetime of feeling dismissed by her, was irreparable.

"But don't you think it's too late?" Ugh. That comment hit me like a gut punch, and it wasn't even directed at me. What a horrible thing to express.

On 7/23/2020 at 1:06 PM, Soobs said:

It's surprising to me that the goal of the book was to solve the case rather than report on it. She had a great rapport with everyone involved (law enforcement and the victims) and in the end those relationships and her descriptions of the scenes and time period was compelling enough to make the book.

I had to laugh when the New York literary people were being interviewed and they were like "We were fine with her missing deadlines. We were just interested in what came next." Sure, Jan. However, there's no way she would have cancelled the book deal with them. She had a lot to prove to her family and that she was more than a famous person's spouse and to the victims.

I don't think that was the original plan. The original plan for the book was for her to write about the hunt for the Golden State killer. But as she went along, I think the pull to solve it and THEN publish it became too much.

And yeah, I definitely think the publishing folks were putting a positive spin on things, there.

On 7/23/2020 at 3:55 PM, sistermagpie said:

The thing with Michelle is it does seem like her death was a bit of a fluke, right? Like  many other people would have taken what she did and been fine and we'd never have heard about the drug use. So it's not like she was driven completely to destruction, it was a combination of her getting to this obsessive place and using drugs without even knowing they could kill her.

Yeah, it appears she was handling it all okay, so she thought that meant she could handle it as needed, no problem. When each night she was rolling those dice.

The irony is, while everyone focuses on the fentanyl and opiates in her system, my vote is that it was the xanax that was the kiss of death. Benzos affect the central nervous system -- especially the breathing -- and it's why so many celebrities overdose where Xanax was a contributing factor (Whitney Houston would be another good example).

On 7/27/2020 at 2:17 PM, ChromaKelly said:

I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw this episode. Drug and alcohol use is very normalized in upper-middle class white women circles. How many times do women joke about needing a Xanax, or drinking as soon as the kids are in bed? The pressure on women to be everything to everyone is insane. I very much empathized with Michelle. I've spent many nights up on my laptop till 2am trying to get something done, and it almost feels like having two lives.  Plus she seems like the type who doesn't want to let people down. 
It's very possible the people close to Michelle, including Patton, had no idea how much she was using and what types of drugs. She may have asked other people to get drugs for her, each thinking they are helping out a friend, and not realizing she was getting pills from others plus her own prescriptions.  

I absolutely think you're right here. In certain circles, it's beyond easy to get some pills from a friend and nobody thinks anything of it.