KerleyQ

I love how his family all think that everyone being mad at him for five minutes and him going to a couple therapy sessions means he's suffered, repented, and redeemed himself. If they really wanted to redeem the character, they should have had him really on the outs with everyone for a significant time. Have him get a job somewhere else, maybe even some manual labor. Then have Vinny's sister (or cousin, or some other loved one) show up in town, pissed off at Thomas and looking for answers about his death. He helps her come to terms with Vinny's death and maybe even stops her from trying to get revenge on Liam and Bill. And do a slow burn love story there. Then, legitimately falling in love helps him see that Hope and Caroline were both unhealthy obsessions, which leads to him getting some therapy and being really happy and content in his life as it is. Then he reaches out to his family, Hope, Brooke, and Liam to apologize, just because he believes he owes them the apology, not trying to regain anything. All of that should take about a year. Then, maybe you have the "HFTF is in trouble" storyline (which would be more believable after a year or more of him being away instead of them supposedly suffering when there wasn't even time for a non-Thomas line to have launched yet).

I just got caught up on the last two episodes, and, I swear, the only person on this show I can really relate to is RJ, with his dawning horror as he realized shit must have happened between his brother and sister. Taylor is just the worst, which is amazing on a show where this week's Liam exists. She was trying so damn hard to gaslight Brooke, and Brooke, thankfully, was having none of that shit. Taylor, you are the one who broke your pact. Brooke and Ridge having some level of feelings for each other isn't a violation of your pact. You knew they love each other. Your pact wasn't for Brooke to shut off her feelings, it was an agreement that you were both backing off of that seesaw and prioritizing being friends over competing for Ridge's dick. Your pact also had fuckall to do with your sociopath of a son. So stop trying to lean on that shit, especially when you knew damn well that Brooke wasn't all in on trusting Thomas and wasn't just going to magically get over what he did to her and her family. I was proud of Brooke for not letting her manipulate her with that crap. Now we come to Liam, that fucker. I might consider becoming a Steffy fan if, when he said that he was asking for a divorce and couldn't get past Hope kissing Thomas, Steffy would have said something like "are you sure you want to burn your marriage down over one kiss when she was able to forgive you, and me, for having sex not too long ago?" She also should have slammed the door in his face when he opened with "I noticed Finn's car isn't in the driveway, is he gone?" She should be fucking indignant that he thinks he can just come drop in on her home, where she lives with her husband, who has never been anything but good to Liam, despite having good reason to distrust him, and throw her marriage into jeopardy because his ego is hurting, and he expects whichever woman he isn't with to be ready and able to step in and ride his dick the minute the other one displeases him. Seriously, Steffy, have some self-respect and some respect for the husband who already managed to forgive you for this bullshit once, and kick Waffle in his tiny balls. Credit to Wyatt for at least trying to talk some sense into Liam. I sincerely hope he and Hope end up together and she never looks back at Liam or Thomas.

I've been wondering that, too. I remember the same thing - Douglas "marrying" them in the cabin after they all busted Thomas at his wedding to Zoe. I don't remember there every being any follow up to that "marriage" to make it legal.

I'm thinking Steffy must not have too forcefully ended the Rome kiss or ripped into him for it, or he wouldn't be going back for another one so soon. I can't stand Steffy 95% of the time, but I'm still feeling anger on her behalf about how obvious Liam is about using her and considering her his backup fuck, even when she's in another committed relationship. He may talk about how much he likes and respects her, but he does not even come close to treating her like someone he respects. And I hope Finn punches him in the throat. And I really want Hope to find out about both the Rome kiss and this one, and let's finally give her the opportunity to truly rip into him for what a waffling asshole he is. He dares lecture her about how Thomas is the one person who can break their marriage (and, yeah, I one hundred percent understand why he considers Thomas a bigger betrayal than just about any other guy), but Steffy has always been the bigger and more permanent threat. And he proves it by leaving Road Runner smoke clouds in his wake when he goes running to her every single time he has any reason (valid or not) to be upset with Hope. Hope has lived with the spectre of Steffy over their relationship ever since Steffy imprinted on Liam when she couldn't have Bill. Liam has lived with the idea of Hope having feelings for Lurch for about a week. Liam should be upset and hurt, sure. But, given his history, he should also be the one who, after a little time to lick his wounds (alone), is suggesting that they get some marriage counseling and find a way to work through this (or figure out if they're just not good for each other), because he knows he's done way worse to her more than once, so he owes her a metric shit ton of grace.

I haven't watched today's yet. Are you telling me the damn waffle went and kissed Steffy again? For fuck's sake, Liam.

Knowing now that she wants on one of those shows, I could see her thinking that, since she didn't get more than one episode to "audition" for more reality show roles, she'd throw a huge dramatic fit to be the talk of the premiere episode. Then she'd just need to hope that some reality producer would decide she's the kind of drama they need. Of course, she'll never admit that, because you don't pull back the veil if you want a career in reality shows.

There are some current and former NBA players who also sing so that one isn't out of the realm of possibility. I know Damian Lillard does (but he doesn't have a ring). And Shaq has put out albums at some point in the past (and he has multiple rings). I'm pretty sure Iman Shumpert sings, and he has won a ring. Now that I think of it, he may be my guess for JR's relative. The only cast members I feel fairly certain of (without googling, so this is still speculation): Hugo - He's got to be Jimmy Carter's grandson. We know he was lying about the athlete part, so his relative is his grandpa. And I know Jimmy definitely won the Nobel Prize. I'll be shocked if his relative ends up being anyone but Jimmy. Shayne - that clue was absolutely about Eddie Murphy, with Coming to America and Buckwheat references. And then, of course, we have Carly. Jesus, Carly. First, she made it beyond obvious to everyone. She practically hyperventilated when anyone suggested any clue on the wall was about Tom Hanks. And she was way too obvious about trying to redirect people when they touched on any Hanks clues. I don't like Hugo, but of course he was going to pick her. She was the only really slam dunk guess, and he didn't want to go home. That meltdown was really something. I thought it was enough when they told her to say goodbye to her castmates, and she just stormed out. But then, she really went for it. Shrieking about screen time, complaining that the clues were too obvious. the dig about Gabriel figuring out the bench, even though he's not smart. Damn, she had a little bit of everything. Hugo did everyone a huge favor sending her home. Could you imagine how much worse she would have gotten over later episodes when it only became more obvious who she was related to? As others have said, it was her own fault for using the Oscar as one of her truths. She should have lied her ass off about his biggest award and been honest about the other two items. Because if one of the cast members says their relative won an Oscar and then you walk in to see that clue wall and there's that iconic bench, you know exactly who their relative is. The only downside for Hugo in sending Carly home was that, in her desperation to redirect people from the Hanks clues, she was convincing people the astronaut was up there because Hugo is Buzz Aldrin's grandson. Now that they know (or should figure out) that the astronaut was for Apollo 13, that misdirection on his relative should probably end for at least some people. I was really thinking John Mayer for Chris, but you all have made a compelling case for Donny Osmond. I wonder if he's been told before that he kind of looks like John Mayer, and he's intentionally playing that up.

Steffy couldn't hold back that smile when she told Finn that it was Hope who kissed Liam. Then, it was like she remembered that she's supposed to be Saint Steffy, and she went back to her serious face and spouted that bullshit about how she had hoped she was wrong about Hope's feelings for Thomas. Bitch, please. Since Steffy has had her chance to tell Finn about Liam kissing her, and she didn't, I really want Hope to find out first and be the one to tell Finn. Then there are those Taylor/Ridge scenes. First, Taylor keeps saying that Brooke broke their pact and is acting like she's the one who was betrayed. Um, Taylor, you were in Ridge's office throwing yourself at him, begging him for another chance before Brooke decided to go for it with him. Taylor is so far up her own "saintly" ass that she has to lie to herself about Brooke being the one who broke it, because she's incapable of admitting she did it. But then, at the end, there, she said that at least she didn't sleep with her daughter's husband. Yeah, Faylor is happening. My guess: She's all heartbroken over Ridge, and Finn will likely soon find out about the Steam kiss. Taylor comes across him drowning his sorrows, probably at Deacon's restaurant. He doesn't want to go home, so she takes him back to her place to sober him up. The two of them vent about their respective heartbreaks, and they end up hooking up. Hope is really bad at this. The near hysterical "I don't want to talk about Rome anymore. I'm home, I want to focus on our family." Did you really think that was going to work, Hope? And she was doing that thing that cheaters/liars do where it's clear the person knows what they did, but they still refuse to admit to anything until the other person spells out exactly what they know. It just makes you look like there is more shit out there for them to know, so you want to make sure you don't accidentally admit to something they didn't know about already. It was clear, when he was asking "who'd you go sightseeing with?" that Liam knew. But then, Liam, after he did the whole "repeat after me, I...kissed..." after it finally came out, my immediate reaction was "OK, now it's your turn, Liam. Repeat after me, I... kissed... Steffy." Are there substitute writers, and was this their first week? That might explain the oddness of it all. Like how we went from Liam kissing Steffy and Hope and Thomas basically out on a date to Liam back home and the rest of them on the plane, with Hope telling Thomas that what happens in Rome is staying in Rome. That could have been the sub writers kind of clearing the decks to allow themselves to decide where everything is going. With the way everything is up in the air, they can reveal just about anything about both Steam and Thope. Steffy could have pushed Liam away and told him off for trying to ruin her marriage, or the two of them could have gone back to her room and hooked up. Thomas and Hope could have stuck to their sightseeing date and gone their separate ways to pack, or they could have gone back to one of their rooms and hooked up. I'd like to think that JMW is too far along in her pregnancy for them to start a WTD storyline for her again. But I don't have complete faith that we won't see a reveal that they hooked up in Rome and she's pregnant with her third WTD in five years. (Which would be hilarious, given all the dirt she slings at Brooke, but it would also be completely tedious.) My son has watched on and off for a few years, and he got all caught up today with what's been going on. He said "so, basically, they're writing fan service for absolutely nobody?"

I can kind of get the initial impulse to kind of wait and see if your spouse comes into that conversation intending to admit what happened or not. Because that could play into whether it ends up being something you can get past - if your spouse confesses and is really upset and remorseful vs. if they just cover it all up and pretend everything is fine. But, once it was clear that Hope was going to just put on a happy face and focus on the HFTF stuff and how much she missed her family, that's when Liam should have grown up and told her what he knows instead of playing word games with her. This whole story really illustrates that Liam has not matured a single bit in all this time. And, when all is said and done, Hope is going to have just as much to be angry with him about as he does with her. Taylor, shut up. Please. Just shut up.

I love how the whole "one thing that can end our marriage" is only from Liam's point of view. Does he ever stop to think that, to Hope, Steffy is just as much of a no-go? How convenient for him that the only person who is an actual threat to their marriage is someone he wouldn't ever be involved with. Meanwhile, Steffy is "always right" and his BFF. I think he's good when he gets good material, but with Liam in same old same old mode, he just goes into autopilot. (I thought he was really good in the Beth stories, both when they thought she died and when they were getting her back.) In this show, especially with the slanted writing now, every bad thing a Logan does is exponentially worse than any bad thing a Forrester does. I feel like that's why we're getting Liam constantly spouting that Hope doing anything with Thomas is the only thing that can break their marriage. They're hammering away at us to find two kisses (in one incident) to be the worst thing anyone has ever done to their spouse.

It was especially rude of Brooke and Ridge to hold up the plane when, clearly, Thomas has to get directly to the set of an a-ha video in the 80's when they land. I mean, he's already cutting the timing so close that he had to get into wardrobe and have his hair done before they left Rome. Today felt like they skipped airing an episode. At the end of Friday's show, Liam kisses Steffy in Rome, and at the start of Monday, he's back in L.A., and she's on the plane in Rome, not even aware of Liam having left. And Hope was traipsing around Rome, hand in hand, with Thomas, and now she's on the plane, trotting out the Vegas tourism tagline without us ever seeing her have even a single moment to herself where she expresses any confusion or remorse about kissing another man. Other than his relationship with Flo, I've always liked Wyatt, and I love scenes wth any combination of Liam, Wyatt, and Bill. But, Wyatt/DB deserves more than just being Liam's talk-to. Let him explain to everyone that Flo left him at some point, and then give him some storyline. Let Liam be Wyatt's support system for a change. I feel like there's two possible reasons for this. 1) Because Thomas's POV will show us that, once again, he's somehow been manipulating and orchestrating. And they somehow think that it will be a huge surprise to viewers when that's revealed. (Spoiler alert, writers, it will not be a shock.) 2) This isn't really about him, beyond the tongue baths the character has been getting for everyone. It's just about dirtying Hope up and trying to take away her moral high ground over Steffy (and Liam, but mostly Steffy's the one the writers are concerned about positioning as the show's moral center).

I agree. Everything about it felt awkward to me. The conversation and physical lead up to it, and the aftermath. The Liam and Steffy kiss was super awkward, too, and just seemed so weird in the scene. It would have probably been a lot less "off" if Liam had just done it as soon as he saw her, like it was some kind of "sign" to him that he ran into her right after witnessing the Thope kiss. Or even after her initial response to the news, when she told him something like "you're such a great man who doesn't deserve this." (Side note: Steffy, he so very much deserved it, just not with Thomas being the other man. It would have been so much more interesting if, after the line did poorly with Eric and Zende designing, FC brought in some new designer who was a "bad boy" type, and Hope had the same fighting her attraction trajectory with that guy. Liam would have deserved the shit out of that.)

Bonus points if Ridge goes to Taylor to lick his wounds and walks in on her and Finn in bed.

I agree, that was all weird. It's like Hope doesn't even have any kind of internal conflict over the fact that she's doing something that goes completely against all of her moral stances. It's just a happy go lucky, "I just made out with a man who isn't my husband, and now we're going to carry on with a romantic sightseeing tour, no big deal." This might as well not even be Hope for how out of character this is.

Back when it seemed like they were heading to a Liam/Brooke hookup, I thought they would swerve and actually have Taylor be the one to hook up with her daughter's husband. After today's show, I feel again like they might go there, unless Monday's show starts with Steffy tearing Liam a new one over him trying to destroy her marriage right alongside his own (which she absolutely should do, but I fear she won't.) I could so easily see Taylor and Finn, heartbroken over the Bridge and Steam developments in Rome, confiding each other and then one thing leads to another. On one hand, I feel like some kind of storyline needs to happen to bring some long overdue conflict into the Steffy/Taylor relationship. Steffy should have some deep rooted issues with her mother (that she's been suppressing because she is afraid that, if she starts letting those feelings out, her mother will just up and leave again). On the other hand, I can see Steffy not having a fuck to give about her mother hooking up with Finn is she has Liam. It would be more interesting and present more Taylor/Steffy conflict if the Steam kiss goes nowhere, with Steffy getting angry at Liam for trying to use her as his backup plan (again), but Finn finds out about it (maybe someone in Rome snapped a picture that ends up in the tabloids) and is, understandably pissed off, refusing to listen to Steffy's excuses, because, in his eyes, this would be exactly what she did to him before, hooking up with Liam the second he was vulnerable and easy, proving that she wants Liam more than she wants Finn. Meanwhile, Taylor is having a hard time dealing with Ridge choosing Brooke (again), and when she tries to confide in Steffy about it, Steffy doesn't want to deal with it, because she has her own issues and, like she told her a week or so ago, she's not up for playing parent trap again. Then, one night, Taylor is over helping Finn with Hayes again, they start commiserating about everything that happened in Rome, and one thing leads to another. Then you have Steffy, who has been trying to convince Finn nothing happened and save her marriage, feeling betrayed by her mother, and all those suppressed issues come flooding out. And Taylor's buried anger over Steffy interrupting the wedding to tell Ridge about the CPS call instead of letting Taylor marry him first comes spilling out, too.

Ugh, if Thomas, by virtue of being with Hope, gets custody of Beth, that is way past a bridge too far.

Phone issues have really been doing a lot of heavy lifting this week. I wonder if they actually intend to do a Thomas/Hope pairing, or if this little diversion has all been to dirty Hope up so she's on more equal footing with Steffy and Liam. I really do not want to see "good guy" Thomas be a thing, because MA is just so "golly gee" dippy as a good guy. It just does not work for me on any level. Also, yeah, he definitely was trying to "subtly" encourage that kiss. He's heard from Steffy about her belief that Hope has feelings for him, and he figured he could play things so that she made the first move. I had a brief moment of hope when Brooke was wandering around on her own that Bill had decided to get off the plane and do a little exploring in Rome before getting on with his plans, and they'd encounter each other. Instead, once Carter looked through that keyhole, I knew that, when Ridge looked through, we'd get a scene of Brooke being perfectly framed in his view. (Although bonus hilarity points if she had encountered Bill and Brooke with Bill was what Ridge saw when he looked through). On a related note, how annoyed do you think everyone else in that line was with Carter and Ridge? I'd have been walking around them to take a look myself while Carter was sitting there begging Ridge to take a look. If Liam goes right from seeing that kiss to fucking Steffy, and Steffy has a third WTD pregnancy, after spending the past couple months judging Hope and assuring Liam "I don't want to interfere in your marriage, but..." I will laugh for days. Finn had better kick her ass to the curb if she does this to him a second time. If he doesn't utter the words "I get that Liam was upset about his marriage, but, last I checked, you claimed to be happily married to me, so what was your excuse," I swear.

I really wish shows would just stop with that whole thing in general. People know that actresses get pregnant without it being written in. All the antics to try to hide their bellies become distracting and silly.

So, is the HFTF target audience young women with values who are attending an awards ceremony? Because that's what those dresses are for. When Liam inevitably walks in on some questionable moment with Hope and Thomas, let's see if he can show some growth and stick around to talk to her about it instead of running off to bang Steffy.

I was wondering the same thing yesterday. I hate how fickle they've written Bill, but their chemistry is so good that I'd be right back on that ship if they go there.

"I wish I could give you a sign." Oh, just chuck a pine cone at him, Brooke.

Steffy has been watching Hope and Thomas like a jealous lover. There's one way she takes after her grandma. (The entire Marone branch of the Forrester family seems to have picked that creepy trait up from Stephanie.)

I wish Brooke would take that power out of his hands. Say something like "while my friendship with Taylor didn't work out too well, the reasons behind that friendship and pact still exist. I don't want to be in that constant uncertain back and forth drama. I'm here telling you right now that I love you and I want to have a future with you again. But, I want to be in a relationship where both of us are completely committed to each other and there is no uncertainty. We've both had time to think about what we want out of life and who we want to be with over the past several months. If that's not me, for you, without reservation, then I will back off, and we can each get on with our lives."

Yes! It's really distracting when they do the close up shots of him as a scene is ending. Because even when he's not supposed to appear to be plotting in those shots, it looks like he is.

I really don't know if I can ever see this Thomas as the good guy. And it's not solely all he's done, but he just has that evil/conniving look to him. I think it's his eyes. I swear, if you just showed someone who has never watched the show pictures of Liam and Thomas and asked which one was the bad guy, most would point at Thomas. And MA is good at playing sinister. He's kind of a bore when he's trying to play good guy.