KerleyQ

It cracks me up how Taylor is always thinking that, since she's a WRP, she can use her mad skills to manipulate people through conversation, but it's always blatantly obvious what she's trying to do, because she's a really shitty WRP. You'd think he would remember the last fashion show, and how he really hurt Hope by refusing to stay and see her with Thomas, which ended in her staying late celebrating at Eric's and Thomas trying to kiss her. Given that he has Steffy's voice in his head about Hope having feelings for Thomas, you'd think he'd fear what would happen if he failed to support her again and she was on an entirely different continent with Thomas. You'd think that all of his jealousy would practically demand he be there to prevent that. Even the Thomas attempted kiss thing aside, he should see this as the chance to make up for how much he hurt her last time.

I think Taylor's thing is that she wants to be on the trip to Rome with Ridge. She wants him to say "yes, I think you should come with me," because then it would mean he wants here there. If she wasn't holding out for Ridge to invite her/agree to her idea of coming along, she could have just gone to her daughter, the other CEO, and said "hey, you know, I'd really like to be there for Thomas's big moment, do you think I could tag along with you guys?" She can add in "and I want to help you keep an eye on him so that Hope doesn't lead him astray" to seal that deal. I kind of wonder if they've changed their minds about what they're doing with this story along the way. At the start, she was definitely a bit out of control. There was the freak out at her mom, and the fantasies she was having about Thomas didn't seem to be under her control at all. She seems more in control of that now. Now the fantasies seem more like she was sitting around day dreaming. At the beginning, she was under a lot of stress. There was the custody issue, then she was told her line was failing, and if she didn't bring Thomas back, it would end up being cut. And, of course, even thinking about bringing him back was getting her a constant stream of feedback from everyone in L.A. And then all of that stress collided with her whole thing about not wanting to be how her mother used to be. It definitely seemed like they were sending her into some kind of breakdown. We had that night where she was seeing Thomas's face while having sex with Liam, and then she went to talk to her mother about it, and she finds Brooke, who she thought was "no longer like that," looking too cozy in her lingerie with Ridge. And she had a bit of a mini breakdown then. She doesn't seem out of control now. She's not that ball of tension she was at the beginning of the story. Now, she just seems pissed off that everyone doubts her. And some of that stress from before is gone, because Douglas is back with her, and she's worked with Thomas and put out a line that is being very well received, so she's no longer stressed about losing the line or about not being able to get through putting a new line out because Thomas ends up acting up again. So it feels more like they're shifting it into a story where she's just pissed off that everyone is constantly questioning her, and Thomas is attractive because he's the only one who isn't. And, to that I say, of course he isn't, because her decisions now favor him. Personally, I'm still holding onto some thread of possibility that Thomas is doing something. There have been little moments where it seems like he knows exactly what is going on and what he's doing. Like him putting is hand on hers while they looked at the design, and the way he speaks about them working together. I forget exactly what wording he used when he was talking to Brooke the other day about her coming along to Rome. It was something about how good that was, because it would give her a chance to see how completely in sync he and Hope are. Something about the way he worded it had me feeling like he was talking about them as a couple and not as coworker.

Taylor really thought she was going to show up and manipulate Brooke, didn't she? Just fake a little twinge of remorse and reel her back in. But Brooke was done with that shit and knew exactly how insincere it was. I can see the idea that this story isn't actually about Thope, but about Hope being tired of everyone trying to tell her what to do and not trust her to make her own decisions. I just hope that she doesn't violate her own morals and cheat as part of it. She can come into her own without doing that. Not to mention that sleeping with Thomas would just prove them all right. I'd rather see her say to everyone "no, you know what? You're right, I am attracted to Thomas, but that doesn't mean that I can't control myself or that I have to sleep with him. I've been working side by side with him without cheating. The problem isn't me finding someone who isn't my husband attractive. Everyone finds other people attractive. The problem is that nobody in my life trusts me to not be a cheater when I'm the only person in my life who hasn't been a cheater. You're all projecting your crap onto me and then deciding I can't handle my own life because of it." And what the hell is she wearing?

I love how Wyatt goes to trying to stop the trip from happening or trying to keep Thomas from going instead of just saying "hey, why don't you just go with her and coordinate our coverage of the show?" I'd pay good money to see Hope tell Steffy that she's creating a hostile work environment. First she basically tells Hope "work long hours, very closely, with the guy who is pathologically obsessed with you and has committed numerous crimes against your family or else your line is getting killed off." And now she spends every single day asking Hope if everything she does means she's thinking about banging Thomas. "You were making eye contact while talking to him about the line, does that mean you want to fuck him?" "You didn't respond instantly when I came to your door. Is that because you were thinking about my brother?" "You dropped your pencil, was that because you were thinking about Thomas's dick?" That kind of feels like it would be a slam dunk case. Yes, Hope is having feelings about Thomas, but that still doesn't make a single thing about how Steffy has handled all of this remotely OK coming from the CEO of a company to an employee. And, I mean, speaking of the nepo baby thing, did the family just decide to make Steffy CEO because she didn't inherit any design talent? Wasn't her main achievement to recommend her for the job the time that she got shares back from Bill by almost fucking him and then threatening to tell his wife? (I wasn't watching then, but I could swear that was what I saw was going on when reading SOD back then). And what does she actually do now as CEO? As far as I can tell she hangs out in the CEO office gossiping with her mother and making out with her husband (neither of whom work there). Well, to be fair, the Hope/Wyatt sex scenes weren't that bland. Wyatt and KM's Hope had some pretty steamy chemistry, and she wasn't having the same hang-ups about sex with him as she had with Liam back then. When Wyatt was going on about how great she was, I had the thought of how hilarious it would be if she ditches Liam and Thomas both and ends up with Wyatt.

Hope absolutely has a mile wide blind spot for Thomas, and Liam has the same for Steffy. The best thing that could ever happen for their relationship is to move far away from the Forrester siblings. But, of course, they each share a child with their blind spots, so this crap will never end.

Is the entire Marrone branch of the Forrester family a bunch of middle schoolers? Ridge might as well have said "well, I heard that your mother heard that Steffy says Hope likes you. Like, she like likes you."

I haven't watched today's show yet, but, Jesus, it was bad enough when Steffy tried to drop a hint about it to him in yesterday's show (or maybe the day before, they all blend together). Even if Taylor and Steffy fully believe, with no hesitation, that he's "all better now," he'd still be rather freshly recovered, by anyone's standards. Why would you dangle that in front of him? It would be like handing a fresh out of rehab alcoholic a bottle of whiskey. If they're genuinely concerned that Hope might try something with him, they would do something about him working long hours, one on one with her. Steffy would invite Liam on the trip to Rome so Hope's husband is there to distract her from any potential feelings she might have for Thomas. Instead, it's like "hey, we're taking you two on a trip where she'll be away from her husband and kids, and the two of you will be thrown together a lot, so, before we head out, let's tell you that we think she has feelings for you." No way that could derail his so called recovery, right? Related note - if Steffy had walked in on them going over the dress design, when Thomas had his hand on top of Hope's, would that have been all about Hope having feelings for Thomas, or would Steffy actually acknowledge that her brother was being inappropriate? (Yeah, we all know the answer to that. That "Logan woman" Hope must have slid her hand right under his and forced him to remain like that somehow.)

Taylor looked pissed when Steffy said she wasn't going to be parent trapping anymore. She was totally counting on laying out the "I still love your father" and "I suggested I could go to Rome with all of you" bread crumbs and Steffy picking that trail up and running with it. You could tell by how she tried to downplay the Rome thing "oh, well, I hadn't really made any plans, it was just a thought." She was fully expecting that, in five minutes, Steffy would have her place on the plane secured along with getting her a hotel room that shares a connecting door with Ridge's room. The whole reason he was even vulnerable to the parent trap shenanigans last year in the first place was because he was pissed that Brooke wouldn't just get over Thomas's many crimes. He has always gotten bitchy with Brooke over her understandable disdain for Thomas and all he's done to her loved ones. And he also certainly never stands up for her or Hope to Taylor, Steffy, and Thomas. He spent months last year sitting around at "family dinners" listening to them drag Brooke. Even when Brooke's daughter and grandson were part of those dinners, he didn't put a stop to it.

I don't think he's choosing Brooke over his kids. That's two entirely different relationships. His kids with Taylor are full grownass adults with their own kids. He's not walking out on toddlers. He can be married to Brooke (or any woman who isn't Taylor) and still have relationships with Steffy, Thomas, and their kids. And since he's never really had any kind of antagonistic divorced relationship with Taylor, the two of them can co-exist as a presence in their kids' and grandkids' lives without it being uncomfortable (except for when they make it uncomfortable by pressuring him to leave his wife). And, not for nothing, but Brooke also has a child with him, so, either way he goes, he'd be choosing one woman over the other and the kid(s). Steffy and Thomas don't somehow have more of a claim as his kids than RJ does. I mean, I know they think they do, and that they're his "real family" or some such shit, but he has a family with both women.

They could have just had her lip synch and dub in her lines from any of the past few episodes.

How much is Ridge loving, though, that he's fully back in the driver's seat with both women wanting him to pick them? Way to shit all over giving these women any kind of spine and self-respect when it comes to him, show. It was all a mirage.

I just realized that even Brooke and Taylor being friends was really fully and completely about Ridge. Here we got suckered thinking we were getting a real friendship, or even a potential love story between two mature women, but, no, it was never about the two of them. It was never intended to be anything. They needed story to cover TK's break, so with no Ridge to fight over, instead of giving either actress (or, Heaven forfend, both) a romantic storyline while TK was gone, they wrote this "we have no intention of taking this even a full year" friendship to keep them both in a holding pattern so they could go right back to fighting over Ridge when TK was back full time. They put two characters on ice for Ridge. Taylor certainly didn't want to admit to her kids everything she did, did she? And I don't know why she didn't just own it all. Neither one of her kids would do anything other than high-five her and then settle in for a good old-fashioned bitch session about Brooke. It would have been annoying, but at least it would have been honest. But, no, Saint Taylor will giggly admit that she's always wanted Ridge, but she won't admit that she shoved Deacon into heartbreak and sped over to FC to hit on Ridge and break her pact with her "best friend" ASAP. No, she was trying to help "cute" Brooke and Deacon, and, besides, she isn't so sure Brooke didn't already break the pact anyway, so help her polish that halo, kids! RIdge, do you remember telling Brooke you wish you had trusted her and talked to her? Well, time to put that into action if you meant it. Stop trying to minimize what Taylor just did. You know Brooke is telling the truth, because Taylor did come right to FC to beg you to take her back today. And she admits she encouraged Deacon. Where is Brooke exaggerating or overdramatizing a single thing? And it just occurred to me today - even Brooke's kids will call her on her shit (sometimes deserved, sometimes not so deserved). Taylor's kids never call her on her shit. And you know why? Because Brooke's kids know she's there. For life. Taylor's kids have no such security. They need to kiss mommy's ass and push for daddy to take her back because her presence in their lives is constantly tenuous. They can't, in their minds, afford to push back on her at all, because they have no history showing that she'll stick around through thick and thin. Not that that realization makes it any better that everyone gets to throw everything she's ever done in her face constantly, though. Maybe that's why my favorite pairing for her has been Bill. He may have judged her when he was newer in town (I'm not sure to what extent, because I didn't watch then), but once he fell for her, he fully and completely believed in her. And that's never stopped. And Liam's one consistently redeeming quality is that he doesn't throw her shit in her face, either. They, along with Eric, are the only people in her life who never pull that crap on her.

Of course they have Ridge show up at the end there, when it's not clear what's been going on. I was hoping he'd happen upon the partially open door and hear Brooke crying while Taylor smugged, smirked, and laughed all over her pain, and then see Taylor be the one to make it physical. I really want to see him show Taylor that same anger and contempt that he showed Brooke when he thought she made that call. And Taylor was all over the place. She couldn't even keep her story straight. First it was about trying to help Brooke and Hope have a family, then it was about Thomas, then it was about Brooke and Ridge not being right for each other, and then she'd just circle back to whatever excuse she wanted at any given time in the conversation. And how do you stand there and lecture Brooke about "transparency and honesty" while you went behind her back to push Deacon to make a play for her and then went running to Ridge to make a play for him, all without being "transparent" with Brooke about it? That certainly outweighs Brooke not giving Taylor daily "by the way, I still don't trust your son after he kept my granddaughter from her parents and faked a CPS call from me to break up my marriage" updates. Taylor knew damn well that Brooke didn't trust Thomas and that she had concerns about Hope working closely with him. She just, rightly, didn't feel the need to bring their kids' issues into their friendship. Turns out that, while Brooke had good intentions and, I think, really grew to love Taylor as a friend in that short time, Taylor clearly just wanted to keep an eye on Brooke and make sure she didn't get back together with Ridge more than she wanted to be friends.

This is why it's bugged every time Steffy brings up Brooke's "sins." Like what has Brooke done that you haven't, Steffy? Other than sleeping with your daughter's significant other, but, let's be real, that only hasn't happened because Kelly isn't old enough yet.

Taylor was giving me serious second hand embarrassment in those scenes with Ridge. It seemed to me like Ridge was well aware what she was trying to do, and he kept trying to play dumb and redirect her until she decided to make it so blatant he couldn't pretend he didn't know what she was doing any more. And it just occurred to me that Taylor may have really fucked Deacon over. Ridge and Bill agreed not to tell anyone about Deacon's relationship with Sheila, since he helped them catch her in the end. But, how fast do you think Ridge would go back on that if he hears Deacon made a play for Brooke again? He's going to go running to Brooke to warn her about Deacon and Sheila. I know Taylor doesn't know those details, but he'd still be collateral damage in her scheming, and despite the fact that she sat there blowing sunshine up Deacon's ass about how great it would be for Hope to have her family together, she won't give a single fuck that Deacon ends up with his relationship with Hope damaged.

Taylor has some issues. She hasn't let herself get really pissed off about her big grand dream reunion with Ridge being blown to pieces, because she'd have had to be mad at Thomas, Steffy, and Ridge. And the four of them can't be the superior Forrester family if she were to let loose on any of them. Instead, she threw herself into this friendship with Brooke so she could keep her eye on her and Ridge. And Thomas has to be reformed, or she might have to be mad at him or let it affect their relationship, and then she might not be the sainted mother figure she imagines she is (despite how much she's contributed to them being messed up all their lives). Now that Steffy has planted the idea in her head that Hope has feelings for Thomas, Taylor has somewhere to direct her anger - those evil Logan women. That harlot, Hope, is going to lead her sweet little boy down a bad path with her Logan feminine wiles, and that's Brooke's fault for being Hope's mother. Anything but examining her own family's shit.

Yep. This show is making us spite-ship.

Taylor is coming off a bit deranged. Maybe time to see a therapist there, Taylor. But not the one your son is seeing. The jury is still out on that one. Brooke sadly overestimates Taylor's maturity and integrity. While she's telling Ridge how they both are prioritizing their friendship, Taylor is over there manipulating Deacon into pursuing Brooke so she can go shoot her shot with Ridge and talking about how their friendship isn't really working out like they'd hoped. I hope both Deacon and Ridge bust her to Brooke. Since we're clearly going to get Bridge again, I hope it happens before JMW's maternity leave. I want to see the turnabout is fair play version of that smug conversation Steffy sought out Brooke for back in Aspen. I also think the Bridge reunion will expose the first crack in the St. Thomas the Neuter facade. We all know how Thomas acts when he doesn't get what he wants.

I agree They've had good chemistry in every interaction they've had since KA took on the role.

If she is being drugged, I do think they'll have it be someone doing it on Sheila's behalf. First, somehow, it will be discovered that she's being drugged. Everyone will think it's Thomas, even Taylor and Steffy, who will act like they're the biggest victims in all of it. But it will turn out to be someone else doing it for some convoluted plan of hers to break up Finn and Steffy by making Liam single and on the rebound. We haven't seen Paris for a while, maybe she somehow ended up sucked in by Sheila (for some ridiculous reason) and is doing her bidding. Once the truth eventually comes out, everyone will have to kiss Thomas's ass, again, for daring to think that the guy who has done exactly this sort of shit before was doing it again.

I really don't want Brooke back with Ridge, but, at the same time, after today's show, I totally want Brooke to just go crook her finger and have him come running, just so Taylor can see that she's always going to be second choice. And I did want to see a story where Taylor and Deacon try to scheme to get Ridge and Brooke, but then fall for each other, but I think Deacon may be too good for her. I think Brooke went into this friendship with the best of intentions, and she truly intended to honor it. But, I think Taylor went into it because she knew Ridge would pick Brooke after the whole CPS call truth came to light, so she figured that this friendship pact would keep Brooke and Ridge apart, and then she could slowly work her way back to Ridge over time while pretending she tried super hard to resist. Trying to set Brooke up with other men was part of that. "I was trying to do what was best for everyone." Yeah, and, in your mind, pairing Brooke up with someone else so you had a free path to Ridge was what you thought was best for everyone. As long as she was happy with Deacon, she wouldn't mind you going to Ridge. What Taylor fails to realize is that the split second Deacon tries to pursue anything with Brooke, Ridge will break land speed records running to her side and playing the "destiny" card. Aren't they still?

"You know how Thomas is always accused of being infatuated with Hope?" Um, bitch, that's because he is. That's established fact. And it's not the infatuation that's the issue. You can't help having feelings for someone. Someone needs to explain the difference to Steffy - yeah, Hope has a crush or whatever, but she's not boiling your brother's bunny. She's not gaslighting her son into some bullshit plan. She's not murdering anyone to keep her plan in place. And, sure, Steffy can be tired of Liam bitching about her brother, but that's not Hope's fault. Hope could have absolutely zero feelings for Thomas, and Thomas could be the most reformed saint in all of history, and Liam is still always going to not trust him around Hope. And he has more than earned the right to not trust him. Her problem is with Liam, and, instead of just telling him "we can't do this anymore. I'm not going to keep reassuring you or fighting with you about my brother. If you still have an issue with him, that's fine, but it's your issue, not mine." Instead, she took a flame thrower to his marriage, because, just like her brother, she's never going to get over the fact that Liam and Hope chose each other instead of the two of them. Funny how Taylor can get her undies in a wad over Brooke not repeatedly updating her with "still don't trust your son!" but Taylor can sit around with Steffy and Ridge and gossip about Brooke's daughter without having shared her thoughts with Brooke. And, Taylor, defending Thomas requires throwing someone else under the bus? Defending Thomas can't just be contained to speaking of Thomas? This just shows that Steffy and her mommy both know that this situation is a powder keg waiting to go off, and they'd rather focus the blame on Hope preemptively instead of acknowledging that, hey, maybe these two really shouldn't be working in such a close capacity. But, yeesh, Hope's mommy going to confront Steffy's mommy is just cringeworthy. If these two can't keep their children, who are pretty much perpetually in some level of conflict, out of their friendship, then time to call it. Of course, now Taylor is using those disagreements over their kids as permission to pursue Ridge without being upfront about it. She is her daughter's mother.

I very much do not want Thomas/Hope to happen, but yeah, I'd take them just fucking and getting it over with at this point over more weeks and weeks of everyone talking about Thomas and Hope.

I'll say I don't think that they should absolutely, no exceptions, never get it. But, I don't think it should be part of the redemption story itself, which this absolutely is. We're being told, he's different, he's putting in the work, etc. But, how much is him actually being better, and how much is him just not having to do anything right now, because he's been given everything he wants (to varying degrees)? He got his job back after a pretty brief ouster. He's working directly with Hope again. She's acting like he's her BFF. He's got access to Douglas. Steffy, Ridge, and Taylor have all forgiven him. And everyone (except Liam and Brooke) is pounding sunshine up his ass 24/7 about how proud they are of him. Even RJ, who seemed poised to be an adversary when he got back to town, was fawning over him this week, telling him how proud he is of him. And, yeah, he's not fucking Hope, yet, but she's making heart eyes at him and initiating contact every day. If they had not regressed him after the storyline where he helped get Liam and Bill freed, I think it would be far less distasteful for him to start looking like he's going to get the things he used to try to scheme for by just being a good guy. But they did have him regress. And, especially since his regression involved coming onto Hope, framing her mother to break up her marriage, and emotionally abusing her son, it's just so gross that not even six months played out after that before Hope was fantasizing about him. The reformed villain eventually getting happiness is a good soapy story, when it feels earned. They didn't put in the work for Thomas to earn it at this point. We literally went from him monologuing about getting vengeance for everyone taking Douglas away from him to Taylor trotting him into Steffy's living room demanding she forgive him and see he's changed. (Which is why I think he's doing something now, somehow. Why have the evil villain monologue if you never intended to do a single damn thing with it? Him somehow making Hope fall for him, whether it's by drugging her or some kind of soap opera mind control, and then using that to blow up her marriage and get custody of Douglas would be the ultimate vengeance on her and Liam. And maybe even on Steffy, if that led to Liam fucking up her marriage.)

I don't think Thomas isn't a viable romantic prospect, period. I just think he's not a viable one for the person who has been the victim/target of most of his crimes. I'm all for them bringing in a new woman for him, or even trying him and Paris. Quinn didn't get a romance with her victim, Liam. (Thank God, because I had a brief fear, at the time, that they might go there.) Flo, well, she was trash who shouldn't have stuck around, period, let alone be given a love story that booted Sally off canvas. Personally, a "redemption" story shouldn't include the person being given everything they were plotting and scheming for when they committed all of their transgressions.