Dianthus

Welcome, Rohaina, you're in for quite a ride! Just remember that Joss Whedon is a bastard person who likes to hurt us for our own good. I'll try not to spoil you too much, but it won't be easy.

I was participating in a BtVS rewatch over on Tor.com that recently wrapped. One of their editors was also participating, I assume on his own time. He bowed out at the end of s6, he'd been so disappointed in s7. A professional editor; someone who knows good writing from bad. We also had a 'bully' (or so it seemed to me) who really liked s7, and couldn't understand why those of us who disagreed didn't. S/he posted a couple of theories as to why, never mind what we actually posted. A lot of us, myself included, mostly just missed the campy fun of earlier seasons. IMO, the best thing to come out of the last two seasons was Spike's redemption. Not surprising, considering he's my favorite character. Having said that, I'll actually say something good about Get It Done. Sending Spike back into the basement after his coat was a mini-Hero's Journey for him; an echo of the Hero's Journey he took to win back his soul. The HS basement held nothing for him but madness, despair, guilt and abandonment. He had to face all that, and reclaim his own Inner Darkness (represented by the coat) to be an effective warrior. It was/is about power. Buffy, Spike and Willow all had power, rooted in darkness, and the three of them had to embrace that Darkness within to win the day.

It takes real talent to steal a scene when you're not even in it!

EB: That makes sense. Trust me, I don't have a problem with Hook's look. The coat was certainly a big part of Spike's identity - that was made crystal clear in s7. I'm sure it's the same here.

Spike's not really one for polite small talk. It's all big rude talk in s2. I love, love, love the two of them bonding over the soap Passions. Totes Adorbs. I tried to watch it once. Once. What a howler.

It's going to be odd, once it happens, seeing him in anything else. Spike pretty much wore the same/similar clothes for most of BtVS but, as a vampire, he'd be less concerned with B.O. or whatever.

The title made me LOL! I loved how Monroe started out as a reluctant sidekick. Then, in the most recent ep, he calls on Nick to save him from Trubel.

I'm really enjoying this show. I prefer the gender-neutral aspect of being a Grimm, versus the Slayers all being female. I understand why Joss & Co. did it, but I like this better. Plus, who doesn't love MonRosalee?

I was/am a fan of BtVS. This show is close in spirit, and I really like it. I also appreciate the gender-neutral aspect of being a Grimm. I think it's better that way. I'm hoping they'll go that route in the Buffy comix.

I love Hook. He reminds me so much of Spike from BtVS (another favorite of mine), with Emma as Buffy and Neal as Angel for good measure. Has anyone here come across any info about his wardrobe? I read somewhere there's a reason they're dressing him as they do, and his wardrobe will eventually change, and it's symbolically significant.

I'm a little surprised no one's mentioned Hook's (lack of) wardrobe here. I love his look (reminds me of Spike), but he's basically been wearing the same thing this whole time! I read somewhere that's a conscious choice for his character with some sort of symbolism behind it, and he will finally get a change at some point. Anybody know anything more about that?

I love Spike and Joyce together, in Lovers Walk and Checkpoint especially. I think some of the respect he had for her actually came from when she tried to brain him with that axe in School Hard. It's only 'right and proper' for a mum to defend her child, after all.

School Hard marks the introduction of Spike, my favorite character. What's not to love there? I was into Buffy/Angel at the time, and devastated by the events of Becoming I & II.

So many Spike quotes, so little time... Some of my favorites have already been mentioned. There's also: "Who do you kill for fun around here?" "Sla-a-a-yer...here, kitty, kitty." "The lions are on to you, baby." "You're not friends. You'll never be friends....Love isn't brains, children, it's blood. Screamin' inside you to work it's will." "Buffy fights the forces of evil. You're her groupies...You're just the same 10th grade losers you've always been." His monologue at the end of Doomed and a Special Mention for his rooftop monologue from In The Dark over on AtS "A bear! You made a bear!" This exchange: Giles: "Why should I help you? Spike: "Because you do that. You're the goody-good guys. You're the bloody freakin' cavalry." Spike talking himself into, and then out of, helping Xander rescue Buffy and Riley in Where the Wild Things Are. "What can I tell you, baby, I've always been bad." All of Spike's scenes with Joyce, shining like gems, especially in Lovers Walk and Checkpoint.

I was into Buffy/Angel while it was still a thing. Looking back on it now, though...It completely undercuts Buffy's speech to Angel at the end of Lovers Walk, and I thought that was a pretty important speech for her, in light of Spike's observations.

I was definitely not a fan of the 'magic = drugs' thing. IMO, saying someone's addicted to magic is kinda like saying s/he's addicted to electricity. OTOH, the 'power is a drug' thing works better for me, but then "it's all about power" gets a little weird. It's my understanding that one of Noxon's friends had a drug problem around this time (or some such), and that influenced her take on Willow's issues. I dunno about punishing Willow/Allyson Hannigan, but it did seem to take some of the heat off Willow for her bad actions, and I don't think that's right. I got into with someone who said that it was easier to excuse Willow for her actions at the end of s6 (as opposed to Spike for his) 'cuz she was 'emotional.' Honestly! Spike wasn't exactly rational himself at the time. Not that it really excuses either of them for what they did. We're meant to believe Spike is "more or less unique" in his ability to change, unlike other vampires. His song is My Way, after all.

I liked the Buffy/Spike alliance in s2 myself. It made perfect sense, and as soon as Spike saw his chance to grab Dru and go, he took it. I'm even more glad it lead to Dru dumping him for being too "soft." She'd tried to remake him as Angelus (she'll always want her Daddy), and this was his ultimate rejection of Angelus.

I'm torn on s6. Spike is my favorite character, and watching Buffy lash out at him in her misery and self-loathing is very difficult for me. OTOH, Spike's redemption is, IMO, the best thing to come out of Buffy's final seasons. I liken Buffy's character arc to The Enemy Within. For those not familiar, it's a ST:TOS ep wherein Kirk is separated by a transporter malfunction into two beings. One is weak but idealistic. The other is strong but animalistic. To be a whole person, 'Good' Kirk needs to accept 'Evil' Kirk as part of himself. The Replacement (s5) is a play on the same theme. Buffy is the target of the big, tall robe-y thing's attack, when Xander takes the hit instead. Still, the idea is: separate the weak aspects of the character from the strong. Kill the weaker, and the stronger dies too, as one cannot survive w/o the other. Buffy needs to accept the darkness within, so she controls it, rather than the other way around. She's very resistant to the idea, but Spike helps her get there in the end.

Good, bad, or just "ok," Spike is/was/always shall be my favorite BtVS character. Yes, even considering the events of Seeing Red. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's kinda nuts people are more upset over that than Spike, or Angelus, or Willow trying to kill Buffy/end the world. That's, what, just the price of doing business? Buffy's relationship with him in s6 was central to her character arc, as difficult as it could be to watch at times. We saw the darkness inherent in the Slayer's power starting in When She Was Bad, before Spike was even introduced. That darkness was woven throughout s3. Don't forget Buffy was perfectly ready to kill Faith/feed her to Angel. We saw it again in Who Are You? and Buffy vs. Dracula. It was part of her relationship with Spike, and we saw the root of it in Get it Done. She needed to come to terms with that darkness, and Spike helped her get there. The chip certainly played it's part in his transformation, but Spike was different even before that. He had his own selfish reasons for doing so, but he approached Buffy under a flag of truce, to ally with her against Angelus. Not just any vamp would turn his back on his own kind, on evil, for love. Also, the chip offered only negative stimulation. Do this, and zap! By hurting others, he hurts himself. There was no equal reward for doing good. With the repression of his worst instincts, his latent humanity started coming to the fore.