JMO

I agree that exploring new possibilities is a great use of fanfiction. But I think it also has a very real role in exploring all of those minutes before, after, and in between, the ones we see on our screens. Especially for a show like CM, where the characters are so rich, there is no real way to do them justice in 42 minutes (or 5, if you're Reid) on a Wednesday night.

That horse is well and truly dead, and has taken all of his secrets to the grave with him!

This is the only statement I've seen from them. Has there been something else? My guess is the same as yours, Franky, that those on set that day are not permitted to speak publicly yet, so there's no way to know who saw things one way, and who another.

There were obviously eyewitnesses, none of whom have spoken publicly. Until or unless there is formal, public disclosure from them, by name, and without substantial conflict among the various accounts, we have only the leaked reports of individuals who have chosen to leak, each for a reason. That doesn't make their accounts wrong, but nor does it make them right. It's understandable that people would draw conclusions about which type of account is correct based on the ultimate outcome, but it doesn't make those conclusions correct. For the moment, we have only two things as fact: Thomas' acknowledgement of a disagreement, and the announcement of his firing. The networks involved were free to say why they'd fired him, but didn't choose to do so. They also didn't choose to address whether they'd disciplined Virgil. I don't know how we would know, without hearing it from them, or him. Not every form of discipline is publicly accomplished.

Yes, I was referencing that article. She's pretty open about inserting her own opinion in it, and then citing a single fan who proactively emailed her. Since the only fact we know so far is that Thomas GIbson was fired, all of the rest of it is heavily colored speculation.

That 'article' is an opinion piece. Like Old Dog, I prefer to represent my own opinions, and not be represented by others. From the beginning of this, the discussion has been driven by presumptions, "sources on set", "sources close to Gibson", intimations of chronic discord, proclamations by fans, hints by "industry insiders"-----all informed by one degree or another of personal bias. The only "official statement" announced the firing of Gibson, for which no reason was given. It's not unlike watching political pundits opining on matters to which they are not privy. We may or may not be given the actual facts on this, ever. While I'm as curious as the next person, I would be content to live in ignorance, if it meant that private business had been conducted privately.

I don't expect it to happen on the show, but I do think Reid has some definite leadership qualities. They haven't been nurtured, because he's been written so inconsistently in terms of his maturity. But I like to think that there's been a lot of mentoring going on in all of that time he's spent 'back at the station' with Hotch. Even without it being permanent, I'd love to see him have to step up and run a case at some point this season.

I get your point, Droogie, and I suspect that there are a great many workplace incidents that are handled as you handled yours. Unexpected kindness---maybe even undeserved kindness---goes a long way in changing behavior. There are always choices. VW and TG both made them. VW wasn't wrong to choose to bring his case to HR,, but he wouldn't have been wrong to choose not to. He wouldn't be wrong to choose to bring it to the police, and he wouldn't be wrong to choose not to. Without knowing the specifics, I can't even say that VW's choices were unkind. Perhaps TG has been offered help, and declined. Perhaps the incident playing out as it did will help him decide to avail himself of what he needs. I can't know that any more than anyone else on this board, unless, perhaps we've got some CM staff among us. What I do know is that there was choice involved, on the part of both men. Every day, all day long, we make choices. I think we should make them out of kindness. That has been my point throughout. I have said all I have to say on that subject. If there is something that is still not quite understandable, or if there is simply a determination not to understand, it will have to remain so. The exchange about this topic has been enlightening in a great many ways. I've always been happy in my profession, to work with the people I work with, with the common goal of helping people to reach their highest potential. These past few days, I've been reminded of how lucky I am to be able to say that.

Maybe I'm just not articulate enough, or maybe we really do live in different worlds, because there is no 'cut and dried' in mine. There have been many times I've wished it to be so, many times I've wished I could simply dispense 'justice' and not see the pain and turmoil behind the bad behavior. Because, once I see that pain and turmoil, I can't condemn the person--only the behavior. You seem to have the impression that I am arguing for Thomas to be reinstated. As per all of my previous posts over the past few days, I am not. I understand that he had to be dismissed. What I don't understand is the portrayal of him as anything other than a troubled individual. The reasons always matter. How else can we ever work to make anything better?

Agreed. The appropriate thing to do is to remove, and analyze, and treat. Hospitals and clinics are also workplaces. We try to practice what we preach. Illness doesn't respect age, unfortunately. Yes, that's how it's playing out. I'm simply attempting to explain why some of us see this very differently. Life would be a lot simpler if there was only 'right or wrong' or 'good or bad', but that's not the way life is.

I'm sure that, for a lot of people, it seems that simple. He's to blame, get rid of him, problem solved, offender dispensed with, situation resolved. For a clinician, bad behavior is symptomatic of a deeper problem. It's still bad behavior, and it still has consequences. But it always stems from something, an event, or a trait, or even an illness, and dealing with it requires thought, and compassion, and treatment. Find the root cause and treat that problem, maybe even resolve it, and you save both the individual and the situation. I get that there's less emotional satisfaction up front with that approach, but it's most definitely worth the lifelong payoff in the end.

In my 'industry', which is medicine, we don't deal in black and white. We deal in 'why' and 'how', and conduct ourselves accordingly. We analyze, and treat, and do our best to understand. We look at dynamics, and 'cause-and-effect', and know the complexities of how things work, both within, and among, humans. We see behaviors as symptoms, and not causes for blame.

I tried to like this multiple times, Droogie, but it wouldn't let me. TG's behavior does have all the hallmarks of depression, including the misuse of alcohol. I hope he at least gets evaluated for it. It would be a shame, although not at all unusual, if it had gone six years untreated. HR departments tend to reflexively refer to 'Anger Management' classes, just as child welfare refers to 'Parenting classes'. The literature says that neither have ever been shown to work. But treatment for depression? Miraculous.

Virgil did nothing illegal. That has nothing to do with whether he did anything 'wrong'. For my money,, we should all behave on social media the way we behave in other aspects of our lives. Communication is communication. We all need to be responsible for all of our communication, all of the time.

I think accusations of 'victim blaming' come from trying to look at the incident as 'black or white', when it reeks of shades of gray. TG has a track record of at least one violent outburst, and now, a second. It's immature and impulsive behavior. VM has a track record, available to anyone with the stomach to read back through his twitter, of being provocative, testy, and petty. That is also immature. But it is far from impulsive. Passive-aggressive behavior is purposeful, and is extremely difficult to manage in the workplace. The passive aggressive sets him/herself up for victimization as a matter of course. If you've not encountered such a personality, consider yourself fortunate. Going only by their known personality traits, I think it is very possible----likely, really--that TG was provoked, manipulated, after a fashion, in a systematic way, and had the expected response. It doesn't excuse his behavior. But neither does it excuse the passive-aggressor. The volatile personality will always bear the brunt in these kinds of situations, because their actions or speech are difficult to ignore. But passive aggression is equally harmful. In the long run, it's poison.

Actually, it seems like TG's son is one of the few people who has his head on straight in this whole thing. Good for you, James Parker Gibson!

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/thomas-gibson-criminal-minds-firing-previous-incidents-1201836799/

I don't really have an expectation of the cast to make any public statements. It's fine if they feel comfortable doing so, but I also understand that they may not, at least not in the moment, considering that they are still working for the same administration, and they still have jobs to do. They may privately express their support to TG, and I imagine we'll eventually see some public postings, but I don't know that we'll see any defiance of anything or anyone. This isn't like it was for AJC and PB, it was a firing for cause. Having said that, it's nice that Larry Teng supported Thomas in a tweet. And, if I'm not confused, he directed Virgil's most recent episode.

I think he'd just get put into time out.

I'm in the same boat, Droogie. Reid #1, Hotch #2, and, sadly, the Reid/Hotch dynamic #3. I'm going to miss that more than I will miss Hotch alone. I can't imagine what they're going to do to Reid about this---but I will be seriously perturbed if a certain writer gets to attempt it. If Reid was supposed to be mourning the loss of Morgan, just imagine what it will do to him to lose Hotch as well, and only a year after losing Gideon. Well, maybe we'll try to imagine it. As things have gone in recent years, our on-screen Reid might not even notice.

“I love Criminal Minds and have put my heart and soul into it for the last 12 years,” Gibson said in a statement to THR on Friday. “I had hoped to see it through to the end, but that won’t be possible now. I would just like to say thank you to the writers, producers, actors, our amazing crew, and, most importantly, the best fans that a show could ever hope to have.”

Oh, my. If TG has more issues than we know, and this is necessary for him to get his life in order, then so be it. If he's been unpleasant on set in ways that we don't know, then maybe the rest of the cast will react in a way that we don't expect. But nothing has ever pointed in that direction. He and MGG have usually been the two said to be the most fun on set. I feel bad for him, and hope he's able to turn things around from here. I feel bad for his kids, who are probably suffering through this as well. And I feel terrible for the other cast members. It must feel like someone died. Here's a job they've all said they've loved, tainted now, in what is no doubt its final season. How sad, for everyone involved.

Droogie: Virgil WilliamsVerified account ‏@VirgilWilliams 53m53 minutes ago Three things cannot be long hidden: The sun, the moon and the TRUTH. -Buddha

Looks like Virgil is trying to rub salt into the wound now, which is so very little of him, but definitely in keeping with the pettiness he's shown on twitter in the past. He appears to be clueless about the distress the whole incident has caused the fans. I can only imagine what it's been like on set. He seems to want to feel righteous, and vindicated, rather than acknowledging the sadness this has caused, all around, even if he doesn't feel he shares the blame. Thomas did the wrong thing, and he's acknowledged it. It may be too late to save his role on the show, and that has to be his own responsibility. If he does leave, I hope he will take it upon himself to apologize to the fans. I hope he acknowledges the people who have paid his salary for the past eleven years, in a way that Virgil seems disinclined to do.

FYI, Droogie, since you can't see them. A selection of recent tweets. A mature person would simply have exacted whatever they presumed to be justice and been done with it. Someone else would do what you see below. Virgil Williams ‏@VirgilWilliams Jul 25Los Angeles, CA Sometimes people mistake my kindness for weakness. And that is a mistake. Virgil Williams ‏@VirgilWilliams Jul 29Los Angeles, CA Be careful how you make your bed. One day you will have to lie in it. Virgil Williams ‏@VirgilWilliams Aug 2 This dude @larryteng is the homie. A pro's pro. Real talk. #CriminalMinds #Willifer Virgil Williams ‏@VirgilWilliams Aug 9 Virgil Williams Retweeted Native Am Proverbs ⊕ Amen. ---in response to a quoted tweet about a Shawnee proverb: "Respect everyone, but lower yourself to no one."