Cheshrkat

For the first time, I didn't think either person really deserved to win. I was unimpressed with both of their menus, as compared to some of the past finalists.

I have no idea what the rules are for gun ownership in New York (i.e. would Jeri have had to register a gun she owned?), but I was assuming Jeri would claim that Inez stole the gun from her when she stole everything else.

I feel like this show is what FN Star should be - each week, they are focusing on an actual skill that relates to the task at hand. Personalities are relevant only insofar as they are a benefit or a drawback to the contestant's ability to perform the task at hand (and not relevant for manufactured drama between contestants). No stupid timed theme cooking contests that rarely if ever showcase whether or not a contestant is actually a food authority. The right people go home every week, and it's done in a humane manner - and even manages to be more suspenseful than the stupid way that most shows try to misdirect the viewers at the end. And it really showcases just how good Guy actually is at his job,and how it's not that easy to replicate. Really enjoying this!

I am pretty sure it was Anne of Green Gables.

I think the fact that Jon had just won back the Stark's 'ancestral home', which was stripped from them after Ned was declared a traitor, had a lot to do with not wanting to take that away from the young Umber and Karstark heirs. He saw it happen to his family and did not want to do that to anyone else - I would have thought Sansa could relate to that.

This. So much. I'm so sad, because this chapter actually doesn't do anything to make me anticipate the next novel - quite the opposite. The torture porn element is my least favorite part of ASOIAF. I wince when I have to read about the Mountain knocking out someone's teeth, or yet another woman being raped, or even the villains suffering (forced to eat their own limbs), but I have always accepted that it's part of the price of the story. But an entire chapter devoted to sadistic cruelty and suffering is not something I can get excited about, and more and more, it seems less likely that even if GRRM ever finishes the books, that I will feel the need to read the ending once I get a "show" ending. Is this his idea of how the books and shows will be different experiences - more storylines and irrelevant characters means the opportunity to invent more torture scenes?

I'm old enough to remember the big reveal when Phoebe found her real mother on Friends, and still remember the absolute pitch perfect casting that was Teri Garr in that role, so it's cool to see Lisa Kudrow as the big reveal for Kimmy's mom. I am not sure it's as perfect a fit for Ellie Kemper as was the other, but it was still fun. It really did end on a bittersweet note, but that was offset by the sight gag of her coaster head friend having to adjust his "pig neck".

I'm certainly not mad at him either - but more and more, as much as I may be disappointed with some of the adaptation choices that D&D are making, I am grateful that at least I will get some sort of ending to the story because I have no faith that GRRM will be able to deliver one, and I hate unfinished stories. I still think the bare bones of the ending will be the same as contemplated by the books, and that's good enough for me.

Definitely agree. One line in particular stands out in my memory, where she is thinking that although Tommen might want to exercise power, he could wait for his turn, as she had waited. I do think she loves her kids, but Book Cersei is also about herself to an equal degree, and although she grieved for Joffrey and her father, she saw an opening for herself to truly rule and she took it. She even congratulates herself (hilariously) at several points along the way with what a good job she is doing, when in fact she is just screwing up royally. Kevan tells her so and Jaime tells her so, but she will not listen and surrounds herself with obsequious sycophants who feed her ego.

Didn't Robert also acknowledge Mya Stone? At least everyone in the books seemed to know she was Robert's bastard daughter. I think in the world of Westeros, there's a difference between acknowledging a bastard and legitimizing/accepting them into your house. Anyone who has a last name of Snow or Sand or Rivers, etc. is acknowledged to be the child of someone highborn, or else they have no last names. So lots of bastards are acknowledged - but they are not all living with their highborn parent. And Edric Storm isn't a good example of how highborn bastards were treated, because IIRC both his parents were highborn - Robert was the father, and his mother was one of the Florents? I think Robert had to treat him differently and have him formally fostered or it would have been an insult to a semi-powerful family in his own homeland.

I can't take credit for it but I read a post somewhere else that perfectly summed it up for me. In the books, GRRM doesn't cheat so that the good guys win. But in the show, as they are cutting more and more in the adaptation, D&D are cheating so that the bad guys win. Ramsay's attack with 20 good men decimating Stannis' army was just stupid. Littlefinger's ability to transport through space and time so that he can play all sides is another example. Sansa being held captive in the rape tower is another example of a bad guy "win" that doesn't occur in the books, but D&D made it so, for reasons that made very little sense and with no discernible growth for the Sansa character. Even in Mereen, having the Sons of the Harpy killing Barristan was a cheat because it was done just to clear the way for Tyrion to become her Westeros advisor, whereas while Barristan will likely die in the books, it will be in the battle. In the books, Jon Snow's death wasn't really a win for the bad guys - Bowen Marsh had tears in his eyes - it was something that was at least partially understandable in the context of Jon's decision to march on Winterfell with the Wildlings after he receives the pink letter. But on the show, we'll just have Alliser Thorne (set up as a bit of a bad guy) and a bunch of unknowns stab him because he let the Wildlings through. Loras is under attack for being gay, and not wounded as he is bravely fighting - another cheat designed to take down one of the good guys in the book. The outcome may be the same (Loras out of commission) but I still think it's a cheat because they had to have his character be stupidly reckless about his extracurricular activities with someone who he should have known was a Littlefinger spy, whereas in the books he is still grieving for Renly. I think the saddest part for me is that these cheats shortchange a lot of the complexity of characters' motivations in the books, and just serve to set up one shock the audience moment after another.

FWIW, there's an interview up at EW.com where Kit states that Jon is dead dead, and not just mostly dead. He says he's not coming back. Of course, he could be trolling or deliberately misleading, but it's there. If that's the case, I hate to think I'm one of those people, but I really don't think I will be watching the rest of the show or reading the rest of the books. I'm not complaining about them - it's just that before this season, Jon Snow and Stannis were 2 of my top 3 favorite characters. The only one left is Arya, and she's still so disconnected from the rest of the plot. I just don't think I'm interested in this particular story any more, because I don't care for any of the Lannisters or the Tyrells, I actively hate the Greyjoys and Martells, and I'm ambivalent at best about the Targaryens - well, about Dany. I could not care less for Aegon, fake or not.

I'm almost afraid at this point to be optimistic on this, because I tried to remain so and hope that Sansa wouldn't actually be raped as per the Jeyne storyline (wrong) and then again that Stannis wouldn't actually knowingly allow his daughter to burn (wrong again). So my hoping that part of the agency that D&D feel they have given Sansa this season and part of the consequences of her ordeal is that she is a whole lot smarter about Littlefinger than she has been in the past - Sophie Turner's interviews re: Littlefinger have bothered me tremendously in retrospect, because I seem to remember that she talked a lot prior to and during this season about how Sansa was using LF as much as he was using her, but also that Sansa and LF had a connection, that he truly "got her" and she him. I saw absolutely none of that equality transpire on screen over the last 9 episodes - quite the opposite. If and when Sansa sees LF again, if she doesn't greet him with icy cold disdain and force him to beg for her forgiveness for leaving her in the hands of Ramsay, I am going to be sorely disappointed. And even then, I only want her to think she's forgiven him so that we can start seeing signs that she is the one in control manipulating him for her own ends. If she simply goes back to being his student, then her whole arc this season and all she suffered was for nothing, in my opinion.

I agree with this too. It's so unfortunate, in that I think they are otherwise very heavy handed. Contrast building up Stannis' desperation and feeling there was no other choice with the way they have set up Olly as being likely to stab Jon "For the Watch". I could be wrong and it could go down differently, but that's what I'm seeing happen next week. In the books, the FTW moment came as a complete shock to me - which isn't to say that GRRM didn't lay the foundation for it happening - he absolutely did. But I did not spend half the book waiting for Jon to be stabbed by his own men. Whereas I'm reading a lot of reviews and comments from otherwise unsullied viewers and half of them have been expecting Olly to kill or at least attempt to kill Jon since the second episode of the season. The many (many many) lingering shots of Olly's disapproval have all led to that. So why couldn't the writers have been a bit more balanced? Forego a few shots of Olly glaring at Jon and build in a few more scenes of Stannis' wrestling with his decision?

It may have been logical and in character for show Stannis to make the decision to sacrifice his only daughter - I don't agree, and I now think the earlier scene where he claims her was nothing but a cheap bait and switch, but it's possible. But I just don't see it happening that way in the books. In the 5th book, when his army is so desperate that some men are resorting to cannibalism, he is urged by several of his men who are true Lord of Light believers to burn some no-name sacrifices, and if I recall correctly, he refuses. (He only then relents and burns the men who were eating the dead, but for Stannis those men were dead men anyway and so it was not truly a sacrifice to him.) Given how much more desperate he is in the books than he seems on the show, how do we get from him not burning random innocents to him burning Shireen? Not to mention, Shireen, Selyse and Melisandre are far far away at Winterfell. I do accept that Shireen will die in the books, as a sacrifice, and be burned. But I think it will be by Melisandre and Selyse, after receipt of the Pink Letter, and not by Stannis. I guess we'll find out one way or another when the next book comes out.

So much this. I'm just gutted by what the show has done, but I am also 100% sure that in the books Stannis will not be the one making the call on Shireen burning. I see that entirely as a D&D adaptation choice. I have to wonder now whether Stephen Dillane's obvious absence from the show promotion tour pre-season was related to not really wanting to talk about Stannis and his arc for Season 5! (Liam Cunningham and Carice were everywhere - SD was noticeably a non-participant).

I think Arya's story is more or less the same, but made more interesting in the books by the occasional connection to Nymeria or Arya otherwise warging into Braavos cats. But in all other aspects, I agree that the books, although inclusive of just as much violence and sexual degradation, had other bright spots to provide a bit of a balance. Jon Snow's storyline isn't all that differerent, but in the books he still had friends in Grenn and Pyp, and Satin wasn't glaring at him all day every day about the wildling issue the way Olly is - plus he had more interaction with Ghost. I think shortchanging Ghost is a mistake. Plus the rest of the Northern story had the bright spots you mentioned, such as Manderley and the fact that someone was clearly causing chaos in Winterfell with the deaths of the Frey boys and other of Ramsay's companions. Sansa obviously is nowhere near as badly off in the Vale, even if she has more to do - and again, there are some bright spots such as her enjoying her interaction with Myranda, etc. I do miss the Blackfish as well. Bran's journey was pretty bleak in the books though, and (in my opinion), Dany's was just boring and Tyrion's self-pity tour was horrific, so I think Tyrion's story is much improved in the show. And I hated the Martell and Iron Born storylines, so the omission of one of them is a huge win for show vs. books, whereas the condensing of the Dorne drama is also welcome.

I am 100% convinced that D&D had the former High Septon go through a preview version of the Walk of Shame so that they could counter allegations of sexism when Cersei goes through hers. ("It's not because she's a woman! It's because she's a sinner!")

I'm just going to be so shattered if the show has Stannis actually making the decision to sacrifice Shireen. For one thing, I think it wholeheartedly guts the book character - he is not even truly willing to sacrifice his bastard nephew, let alone his own daughter (who he commands be seated on the Throne even if he dies in battle). For another, I will question the entire point of the show-invented scene where he describes how he went to every possible length to save her, because she is "his daughter". For Stannis in the course of a few episodes to go from that scene to a willingness to follow Melisandre on this issue isn't a surprise - it's outright deception and misdirection. Even the best surprises need to be grounded in what comes before them - I just cannot fathom a scenario where Stannis voluntarily agrees to Shireen being sacrificed. Now, Melisandre or Selyse taking it upon themselves... that's another story.

Until the episodes air and dash my hopes each week, I am going to live in a world where Sansa/Theon kill Ramsay and then Sansa uses her loyalist connections in the kitchen to arrange for Roose to be served Bolton pie. And Stannis lives - I don't want to contemplate his death. (Until it happens.)

I'm still desperately hoping that Stannis prevails over the Boltons - I don't feel his storyline is over, and I think the Boltons are Grade B villains - Seasons 6 and 7 need to be concerned with the Grade A villains, including Littlefinger and the White Walkers. So now I'm speculating that in addition to taking Jeyne's place, Sansa will take over for Lord Manderly as well - assuming she and Theon escape Winterfell, I feel as though Theon will have to tell her that her younger brothers are still alive. When she meets up with Stannis, I think she promises him the Northern support on the condition that he finds Bran and/or Rickon and returns them to her (the equivalent of Wyman's "bring me my liege lord" compromise). Davos can then seek out Osha and Rickon next season. I just don't see how the show (or the book, really) has the Boltons triumph over Stannis. Someone needs to take the Boltons out and clear the way for the ending which focuses on the major threats, and the Boltons are disgustingly minor league. And I would cheer loudly if they were flayed.

If this season doesn't end with someone (I don't care who - Stannis, Brienne, Theon or Sansa herself, or even Myranda) stabbing Ramsay Bolton repeated with the pointy end of something sharp, it's going to become hard for me to keep watching. Knowing that we will see Jon betrayed, there has to be some sort of win for a Stark loving viewer.

It's a fair point, but I do think there's a difference. Replacing Sansa for Jeyne shouldn't make the situation more terrible to watch than it was to read, but while Jeyne is a tragic character in the book (there's almost no one I feel sorrier for, in a series of books in which I pity many characters), she's not a fully fledged POV in whom we are invested heavily. Putting Sansa in her shoes does somehow make it worse, because there's more of a relationship between the reader/viewer and Sansa.

I hate the spoiler above, so I refuse to believe it until I see it on screen.

One thing I really am appreciating this year is both an expanded role for Stannis on the show and also a much more balanced (in my view) presentation of the character. He's still charisma-less, as he is in the book, but I must say, Dillane does an amazing job in portraying the depth in the character despite the fact that he's purposely written as lacking the qualities that make most characters compelling. And I find the writing is better - I loved loved loved the scene between Stannis and Shireen in Episode 4, and thought it was a great way to show the iron will behind Stannis without also making him someone you hate, by showcasing that unwavering determination in the context of his unwillingness to give up on his daughter. But... I am now more than ever deathly afraid for Shireen's lifespan on the show. I feel certain that Melisandre only wanted her up there as an eventual "kings-blood" sacrifice, and while I do not believe Stannis would ever allow it, I think she will wait until he is gone - I think she may leave for Winterfell with him, but something will intervene and result in her returning to Castle Black, and while I don't think Selyse would actually willingly sacrifice her daughter, she is not strong enough to stand up to Melisandre. I am therefore hoping fervently that D&D are intending to use Shireen as a replacement for Mance Raydar's son - that Jon somehow finds out about Melisandre's plan and sneaks Sam/Gilly off to Oldtown with Shireen instead of Mance's son (plus I think they will take Gilly's baby as well) - I think that is why they showed Shireen teaching Gilly how to read. Plus, it would be a nice book-end if Gilly ended up protecting Shireen from Selyse after Selyse warned her to stay away from wildlings. I really don't want Shireen to die. Of course, I also don't want Stannis (after Arya, he's my favorite character) to die, and that might be the other shoe that drops, notwithstanding the book's pink letter subterfuge. I am seeing a lot of commentary that either he or Shireen, or both, will be dead by the end of the season. I'm desperate for other options.