Meredith Quill

Gotcha, it's all good. I was just worried about your innocence and wanted to check that you were aware there's a good chance of being spoiled by coming in here if you haven't read the related story, heh.

@CountryGirl Have you read any of the books/novellas?

In a nutshell, Daemon is most definitely guilty of assholery, but assholery does not automatically mean 'villain'. He's a divisive character.

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read any of the related books to date.

In and of itself it doesn't make them leeches, true, but sycophants - perhaps? Leeches wasn't my descriptor, it was Daemon's, and it demonstrates a mutual distaste shall we say. You won't find me arguing that if Daemon were the Hand, his choices would be any less sycophantic. However, it's a state of affairs that should be acknowledged regardless of whomever is the Hand, if said Hand is power hungry/ambitious more than he is devoted to the crown/realm. Lord Commander of the Kingsguard - as we know, Robert removed Ser Barristan from the small council so yep he could be ousted if the Hand talked the King into it. Grand Maester - probably harder to do but I doubt impossible if the Hand wished it so with enough determination, having him killed is an option if the Hand were ruthless enough. I doubt Lord Corlys is a problem, he at least seemed somewhat supportive of Daemon. No idea what position Lord Strong has? Lord Beesbury, aka Master of Coin - lol bye boi.

The maester said that all attempts to turn the baby had failed. I can't say for certain obviously but based on the captain of the city watch pointing out different men and yelling 'RAPER', 'MURDERER' etc, I extrapolated that they were targeting known criminals. Much like when Bronn (as commander of the city watch) said that he'd had the gold cloaks round up all the known thieves prior to the battle of Blackwater I imagine.

Presumably, it comes down to preference of the ruling monarch and perhaps social convention made that practice fall out of favour?

I lied. I am going to say some more - NOT SPOILERY - stuffs bc I think it bears saying. You said "I would be more likely to give him the benefit of the doubt if we didnt have other characters (not just one but many) lamenting how power hungry and incompetent he was, and not one saying that wasn't true, just offering excuses for him." But those other characters were all members of the small council... Daemon & Otto are clearly both ambitious men, and ambitious men tend to loathe other ambitious men in their orbit bc 'threat'. Now, with that in mind; 1. The Hand is head of the small council "We all serve at your pleasure Lord Hand" - Varys to Ned GOT S1. 2. The rivalry/conflict between Daemon & Otto is open knowledge. 3. Otto knows Daemon desires his position I have no doubt, however, Daemon isn't the Hand, Otto is, so who will most, if not all, of the small council agree with/back? 4. Daemon told Viserys that the small council are leeches who prey on his weakness (kindness?). 5. If we believe there is any shred of truth to what Daemon said, if Daemon was ever to be made Hand then most, if not all, of said leeches would be out and they no doubt know that. So I don't really put weight on what the small council 'leeches' think of Daemon as it seems they're all feathering their own nests albeit more subtly. I do, however, put some weight on what Rhaenyra thinks of her uncle as she has no hidden agenda, likely knows him on a more personal level and seems to like him. Fwiw, I'm not saying I think Daemon is a wronged angel by any means, but there's room for nuance and complexity there. And I like to look behind the motivations of characters to analyse why they say what they say and do what they do.

Fair enough. Now imma to avoid wandering into any spoilery shitses.

I think one episode is too little to assess a character's personality fully tbf. I understand you're likely saying 'this is how it appears to be from what they've shown us', and I'm not saying I think you're entirely wrong, I'm merely saying that no opinion should be set in stone based on one episode alone. As for what he said about 'heir for a day', yep it was shitty. However, what I saw was Daemon feeling down and perhaps conflicted about the untimely demise of his nephew, he was quiet and not joining in the revelry. Then his mistress came along and egged him on to be his 'usual self' (which I suspect partially - note the partially - is an act to be one of the 'lads'). He allowed himself to be drawn into that persona and in the heat of the moment, made a poor decision. I agree with the person above who said he seemed genuinely ashamed of what he'd said. We've all made shitty decisions and/or said shitty things we later regret. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt until I see more.

You don't know what you don't know - yet, and then some. If you're willing to give it time, you may find yourself happily surprised by how events unfold. The new gods are the Seven, aka the gods of the Andals, who came to Westeros after the First Men. You may recall that Drogo often referred to Jorah as 'Jorah the Andal'.

1. Which makes him, to quote Daemon, "A cunt". 2. I'm not saying he's a bad guy but I am saying so far he's already proven himself a classless douchebag, jmo.

I had a problem with it wrt TIMING. I mean jeez, his wife wasn't even cold in her grave yet... not classy Otto, not classy.

They were cousins. He couldn't have chosen the queen, her fate was sealed. The maester told him his choices; both die or they can try to save the baby. I did think it was shitty not to tell the queen though, after all what mother would choose 'no just let us both die'. Yup, she's an Arryn with Targ ancestry and cousin to the king. 100% agree re the queen.

That review is as sneering as most were regarding GOT's first season, pfft. If you enjoyed the political machinations, the intrigue, the backstabbing, the 'Littlefingering' if you will, and if you enjoyed dragons and battles and dragon-battles - you will enjoy HOTD is all I have to say. If you're looking for magick and feelgood tv, look elsewhere. This story takes no prisoners.

I think new shows can often be slow starters as the first few episodes have to do the heavy lifting in terms of world and character building as fast as possible, so can end up being exposition heavy. I rarely - tbh, pretty much never - give any weight to professional reviews (meh) as they've historically looked down their noses at fantasy genre shows (much like their literary counterparts). Just because some of them eventually jumped on the GOT bandwagon at one point doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly value or respect their opinions. Not to mention, I uber rarely like any Oscar winning films; suffice to say it appears that my tastes and those of industry critics almost never align. Which is just fine and dandy with me, I don't require their seal of approval or validation to determine my enjoyment of films & tv. ^shrug^

Changing the order is one thing, however, we will not be changing any reactions themselves at this time.

The story/plot will be watchable without any background knowledge at all. As for world lore and such, no idea really, however, I would imagine that the show will not want to miss out on potential new viewers, so will cater to them also.

@AllAstronauts not a priority but will you work your magicks re this these change of order requests when you have the time pls & thanks.

I see the post but all I read is

The Crown schmown... if you liked him in that, then, gosh, you really should watch him in Doctor-freaking-Who. He's in my top 3 fav ever Doctors and is the role that made him a household name here. (Also, he happens to hail from the area I grew up, heh #notbiased)

Team Black! Down with the Greens, they stink like something stinky that stinks.

Depends which country you are in?

Anticipate Here!