Meredith Quill

I thought you were speaking of Alicent's crimes, then I noticed 'usurper', 'backstabber' and 'malicious gossip', among other crimes, were missing from the list.

My opinion of Shansha is well documented in the GOT forum and fwiw I loathe her just as much in the books too where her storyline let's just say, differs. I've stated in this topic and also in the episode 1 topic why I think Alicent sucks based on what we've seen so far. I'm too lazy to type it out again lol. Rhea Royce, from the Vale and no we haven't seen her thus far.

Yes, that's important to be sure, however, to a petty bish such as myself, it's poetic that the line of Targ kings continues via Rhaenyra & Daemon, not Alicent and Otto. That matters most to me, heh. #satisfaction #poeticjustice I was quoting the magnificent Queen of Thorns, it seemed apt. 😂

Just another platinum blonde dork on a dragon methinks. 🤣 I find it adorable how Rhaenyra and Daemon's line endures whilst Alicent's bloodline ...does not. It's the only joy I can find in all this misery. #hewholaughslast 😉

How do you feel about pirate looking dorks on dragons? ^Aemond One-Eye waves^ heh

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read any of the related books to date.

If we're going down the 'but they were the exceptions to the rule' route - okay, well then consider me an exception to the rule too. Clearly, we're not alone... And yes, Alicent sucks. Sure, what could go wrong!

Sansa is the.worst.example.eVaR. Of anything.

I read that differently you'll no doubt be surprised to hear, lol. To me, he wanted to obtain the honest opinion of all of his small council before making a final decision and Lyonel was the only one who knew nothing at that point. My remark about Viserys having not one single clue referred to how Otto had manipulated the entire Alicent & Viserys growing close from the first and further, specifically re Otto's statement (paraphrasing) "Dude, having to marry for duty sucks, glad I'm not you, oof", which was clearly designed to strike a chord in Viserys, and it succeeded 100%.

It occurred to Arya, it occurred to Yara, it occurred to Brienne, it occured to Lyanna Stark, heck it even occurred to Olenna Tyrell as a young woman not wanting to be wed to her father's choice of husband - to name a few off the top of my head. I wonder what % of daughters featured in the show they amount to? Just because daughters may have had little to no agency, doesn't mean they all behaved like robots doing exactly as they were bid. Where there's a will there's a way. And Lyonel told him to marry Leana while outlining all the reasons why that would be best for the realm, because Lyonel had no hidden agenda/ulterior motive going on. I don't get your point?

THIS. His "I don't envy you having to remarry for duty" remark, was designed to make Viserys think of a possible match who he'd already formed some kind of emotional attachment to; ergo Otto's daughter, Alicent vs only remarrying out of duty alone which is indeed a much more bitter pill to swallow and Otto handled it with magnificent underhandedness. Otto completely manipulated Viserys there and the poor, oblivious nice guy had not one single clue. If Otto were interested in what's best for the realm and his first duty to his king, he would have wanted Viserys to marry Lady Leana the same as all of the other members of the Small Council counselled he do. But no, what matters most to Otto is furthering his own agenda, the realm be damned.

Sorry but if I were Alicent and wholly didn't want what my father wanted, i.e. to marry my bff's father who is the king and the friend betrayal ramifications that go along with that, then I wouldn't have behaved so agreeably toward him for starters. I would, in fact, be as disagreeable as courtesy permitted anytime I was in his presence, a la not speaking beyond having to provide an answer, being sullen, deffo not being kind and thoughtful and generally make myself (I won't say unpleasant but) at least, not pleasant, company...you get the idea. If Alicent had been utterly against the idea, she could have easily made him not warm to her without her father's knowledge of how she'd achieved it. So I don't accept that Alicent was a mere pawn in her father's machinations, even if there was some reluctance, she knew what she was doing and still did it.

A subject's first duty is to their king. Can someone tell Otto that please? The king specifically said "You don't mention our conversations to Rhaenyra do you?" and implied not to do so. He did not forbid it and if she cherished her friendship in any way, she would have let her bff know somehow (perhaps even via whispers to someone else), but no, she cherishes her potential position more. Evidenced by her being so clearly miffed in Ep1 with the fact that Rhaenyra wasn't concerned about her own position as they sat under the tree - position matters to Alicent. As for her being put in said position by Otto and thereby alleviating her of all accountability; yeah teenage girls are well known to do exactly what their fathers tell them to do with nary a quibble, to the letter and without hesitation; oof, Arya wants a word. Your third point - as a female who was once a girl, I can say I know that those things are not mutually exclusive.

To answer: What they said^. Otto is a manipulative, snidey schemer and his daughter is now a proven back stabber, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

No matter how distasteful the offer of betrothal may have been due to age, the difference between Corlys and Otto is that Corlys followed proper protocol, Otto chose the insidious, schemer path and his own daughter is all of THREE years older... still ick. My interpretation was that we were following the Targ bloodline, beyond that I couldn't make out much. This. The Margaret Beaufort story of her getting pregnant at 12 has always disgusted and outraged me in equal measure.

Eww, if you ate crab that has eaten people, does that make you an indirect cannibal? Blech.

Seems Lady Misery isn't pregnant? That's different...hmm, I confusion.

We haz opening credits! Poor Rhaenyra, everyone is being a dick to her. Dragonstone: I don't really know what Daemon is playing at. StepStones: I don't understand what The Sea Snake is playing at. Marriage: I 100% know what Otto has been playing at...

I read somewhere since the episode but I forget where (I read a ton of stuffs), that the city watch men were recruited from amongst the small folk, likely from Flea Bottom et al (seems logical enough). Therefore, it's not a leap to believe that there'd be an extremely high likelihood that they would know who the criminals were and where they generally hung out/congregated. A la "*Much of the city is considered lawless and terrifying". So it isn't difficult to deduce that the area the city watch 'raided' was a known haunt of criminals of every ilk and if you were in that area, you were no innocent bystander (*much like how some areas in various countries/cities are considered dangerous etc etc). Now, whether it was within Daemon's purview to mete out such brutal 'justice' (what was medieval justice anyway?) is a different matter, my point is, that these weren't ordinary, law-abiding folks. Just for the record.

Here ya go.

Yeah, I knew it was a Ken Follet book and keep saying I'm going to read it but never have got around to it. Anyhoo, we've gone off topic now so I'll leave it at that.

Honestly, most spinoffs exist as subforums in the parent forum (example: The Walking Dead), to make it easier for members. Zero to do with costs or 'poor admin decisions'. In the vast majority of cases it isn't an issue as folks who watch the parent show often watch the spinoff(s). Currently, and ironically, due to an internal glitch, we are unable to create subforums for reasons I shan't bore you with. I'm not the moderator for this particular forum and I don't watch the show so this is the first time I'm aware of this conversation. It's no problem to pull out the subforum and have it on its own; which I have just done.

Mysaria doesn't have the same accent as Shae. The actress who played Shae is from Germany and has a German accent. The actress who plays Mysaria was born in Japan to a half British mother and a Japanese father and was raised in England. Therefore, she definitely does not speak with a German accent, her natural accent would be an English one (with perhaps a Japanese twang - or not - depending on how much of her childhood was spent there), I guess watching an interview with her would settle that. It sounded to me like she was using a slight Japanese type of accent. Matt Smith comes from my old stomping ground, so has a similar English accent to my own. Ramsey Bolton's actor, Iwan Rheon is Welsh, meaning he used an English accent he'd learned, so possible he may sound similar to MS but not really. Roose Bolton aka Michael McElhatton is Irish, so again he was using a learned English accent of some unknown type.

As an aside, if anyone is curious about the Anarchy because it's what Dance is based on, I highly recommend a dramatic mini series from around ten years ago called The Pillars of the Earth, which is set during that period and has a number of famous faces in it.

Way premature, heh.