blackrose602

No, but when they were talking about the four deaths, my dad and I both shouted simultaneously, "Four Horcruxes!"

IDK, I was a theater kid in the 80s and 90s. Lots of gay friends who were comfortable being out within the theater community. And they were varying levels of out to specific friends and/or family outside the theater. So I could buy Steve and Jonathan being accepting based on what we know of their characters, even in that time EVERYONE wasn't homophobic. I do remember lots of Saturday nights spent with one of my best friends hanging out with a gay couple, pretending to be their girlfriends so they could do normal things like go bowling or shoot pool. IME, most gay people had a few select people around them who not only accepted them, but helped them navigate the social world.

So much this. I grew up in the Orlando theater/theme park scene, and we call them "Kids of the Kingdom." They're the dancers who perform in front of Cinderella's Castle and are just so over the top it's ridiculous. Not a fan. I don't get Beau at all. He's fun, he's a good performer, but he is NOT a dancer. I almost feel like they're exploiting him, and it's uncomfortable to watch. The choreographers are choreographing down to him (there was very little waltz in that "Viennese waltz") and the judges keep gushing about how he's breaking boundaries. What boundaries exactly? They've had people without traditional dancer bodies. They've certainly had plenty of gay dancers. It's not fair to the far better dancers who were cut, and it's really not fair to him either. I know it's America's Favorite Dancer, not America's Best Dancer, but I think he's the first they've ever had who literally wasn't an expert in ANY style. The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I can't stand the whole new format. It feels rushed and it feels incredibly overproduced. And I HATE that the studio audience votes, and the judges get one commercial break to decide who to send home. The judges on this show have always tried to throw different dancers under the bus, but when "America" votes, there are enough votes to overcome the judges' shenanigans. I feel like the studio audience feels obligated to vote for whoever the judges are gushing over that night...and to NOT vote for whoever the judges decided should go. Speaking of the judges, I'm losing respect for Twitch, who I've always loved. Jojo and Leah are awful, and I feel like he's sliding down to their level. I think what's really missing is an actual judge. Someone who's judged dance before, either as a DanceSport judge or as a professional choreographer. This trio is just out of their depth, and it's making me really miss Nigel and Mary and even Mia. I don't particularly care what they "like." I have eyes and a dance background. I can decide what I like. I want someone to point out what was executed correctly and what wasn't. Ugh. I was so excited for this show to come back. And I'll see it through. But I really hope they make some serious changes for next season. I'm finding myself more frustrated than anything else.

Interesting to see so much hate for Grace in this episode. A month ago, I might have been right there with you all. I can see that she's needy and self-centered and awful to both Ben and Saanvi. But after the real-life events I've gone through in the past month, she seems absolutely harmless. My boyfriend has been in the ICU, and I've watched his horrible parents degenerate from terrible to "if this was on TV, the show would be cancelled because no one could believe anyone could be that evil." So my point is, I can't hate on Grace or the writing behind her. She's quite mild compared to what I've witnessed with my own eyes. I do agree that they're setting up an endgame in which she's out of the picture and Saanvi is in, and I like that direction. Overall, I thought it was a really fascinating episode. I honestly expected Vance to be the stereotypical government bad guy, so I love that he turned out to be totally in the dark too. And even better, he's willing to admit that he doesn't know it all, and to actually go out and investigate. I think he's about to get a lot more interesting. I also love the connection between Cal and the Bulgarian guy. I feel like the show is giving us lots of little threads that will all eventually connect, but they're leaving it to us to do a lot of detective work on our own for now. I HATED Lost, but I'm fully on board with Manifest. Can't wait to see what happens next episode!

Thank you for this. I just binge watched the show, from what is likely a fairly rare perspective. I'm a director currently in development on an interactive theater experience that happens to be set in a historical period. Obviously mine uses actors rather than androids, and there is no rape or murder. And it lasts for 2 hours, not 2 weeks. But still, the way this show portrays players is frankly frightening, not to mention depressing. And it makes me extremely glad that we're erring on the side of extreme caution in how we present race relations, gender dynamics and all of the other complications that arise when people are invited to play in a historical world. Our actors are quite human, and I want to do everything I can to protect them from players who want to indulge their based instincts, or even just get caught up in the world we are creating. But your post gives me hope that the majority of players will respect the game, play within the structure and storylines we give them, and have a good time. That said, I did play black hat on the last night of the last interactive experience that was here, and we have some rich content for those players as well. It just keeps things within reasonable bounds.

Late to the party, because I just binge watched the show. But I totally agree. I took a backstage tour of Disney a few years ago, and when we went behind the scenes of Epcot's American Adventure, there was Benjamin Franklin, naked as a jaybird, undergoing repairs. Now, because this was modern day Disney, he was non-anatomically correct clear plastic and wires. But it amounts to the same thing. Animatronics have to be cleaned and repaired, and they don't have a sense of modesty.

That's really unfair and demeaning to teenagers. I have a star-crossed lover in my own past, whom I met when I was 15 and he was 19. For a lot of reasons it was never meant to be, and we were both really screwed up from the breakup for a long time. 20 years later, with time and distance between us, we're Facebook friends and contemplating a visit soon. Neither of us could any more have just turned it off and been siblings than anything, and neither of us would have been heal while living under the same roof. Maybe it doesn't happen often, but it does happen in the real world.

I absolutely agree with this. They *can* live in the same house. They *can* repress their desire. They *can* exercise self-control. My contention is that they *can't* be siblings. Can they role play? Sure. Can they suck it up and play into everyone's fantasies of a big happy family? Absolutely. Families keep secrets much darker than this every day of the year. But it seems like everyone in the house, and more than a few fans, don't see it as play-acting. They see it as Callie and Brandon genuinely getting "over it" and their feelings changing to brother-sister. And that's the part I don't think will ever happen. Friends, maybe. With time. But never family. Just my opinion. I only quoted a paragraph, but I actually agree with every word of this post. Like I've been saying for weeks, Callie was desperate when she arrived on the scene in Season 1. She and Jude had been through hell, she had to go get him herself at great personal peril, and she needed for both of them to be safe--especially Jude. I could absolutely see her feeling like these nice people were her and Jude's last chance, and the stakes were huge. I think anybody would have repressed practically anything under those circumstances. See Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. But after Jude got adopted and Robert came into the picture, everything changed completely. I actually had to suspend disbelief a bit when the judge didn't immediately order to Callie to live with the Quinns, at least for a provisional period. IME, that would have been automatic. I can buy Callie and Jude not being ordered to Donald Jacob, with the history there...but not so much with the Quinns. But for whatever reason the Adams Fosters have magical powers and Callie got to keep living there. Fine. But why didn't HER priorities change? There's no way that a 16 (17?) year old girl should be that attached to a family she's lived with for a few months, or that eager to chuck her entire past (the mom that she loved) and get adopted. Adoption is a big deal, it's an entire renouncement of who you are/were, and most kids don't go into that lightly. Throw in a bio dad who loves her and has the means to give her the earth, moon, and stars, AND a major attraction to her now-brother, and the whole thing really screws with credibility. I also feel horrible for Brandon, for all the reasons mentioned in this post. He's kind of the afterthought of the entire family, even though, or maybe because, he's biologically related to one of the moms. His problems are constantly shunted to one side in favor of the other kids. He's expected to be the good guy, and bear the weight of everyone else's bad decisions, and is the only one who has really gotten consequences for his own bad decisions--although the fake IDs and hand crushing were actually the result of him making a bad decision in the effort to remedy someone else's bad decision. And now he's in love with someone totally screwed up in the head who he will never, ever be able to either be with or get away from--because she effectively moved in and took over his home and family. They're all going to be pretty surprised when what he yelled at Stef comes true--he takes off for college in another state and never bothers to visit. I wouldn't be surprised if he runs off and gets married and has a few kids young, trying to build his own family. The whole mess is pretty tragic, and it's definitely casting a shadow over the other (really interesting!) storylines, as well as the picture we were originally sold of this big, happy, healthy family. Maybe that's what we're supposed to learn? That even the "happiest" families run deep with secrets and lies and intrigue? It's certainly a different show than I thought I was watching....

I completely disagree with your point. Normal teenagers get over each other largely because there's space and distance. Think about all the drama that ensues when two members of the same close friend group break up, and they want their friends to choose sides. And that's just among kids who hang out together during and after school. These two live in the same house. And are now brother and sister. And have to repress the whole thing rather than talking it out with their parents, siblings, friends, whomever. How the heck are they are supposed to get over it under those circumstances? The best outcome I can see if they do actually keep it under wraps is both of them landing in extensive individual therapy 10 years from now when they can't figure out why they can't keep a relationship together. Things like this have to be addressed in one way or another. They just do, IMHO.

OK, now that I've taken some time to process this episode and watch So You Think You Can Dance, I feel like I can talk about it a little more coherently. Unsurprisingly, I agree completely with both GildedLily and truthaboutluv. It really doesn't matter if Brallie is "one true love" or a stupid, destructive teenage choice. They can't be siblings in any authentic and meaningful way. That was true before last week, and it's even more true now. And I agree that once Robert came into the picture, the adoption storyline became highly irrelevant--not to mention extremely unrealistic. And putting Brallie sex and the adoption back to back feels horribly like pandering, rather than sticking to a defined story arc with an intentional endgame. But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if THIS is the cliffhanger. Surely the writers and showrunners have to know how unrealistic and ridiculous this whole thing is. But controversy sells, and I would bet that more people will tune in to see how they get out of this mess than the number that will quit the show over it. So they're giving us the rest of the year to argue and debate and agonize over it before 3b. Maybe that *was* part of the intentional story arc/endgame all along. I did a little research, and it looks like adoption based on fraud can be annulled within the first three years. I wonder if Robert will end up setting that in motion, if he finds out about Callie/Brandon. I have also come to realize that I really, really don't like Callie much right now. I don't agree with the idea that Brandon "should know better" or that Callie gets a pass. She really jerked him around, through 3 seasons but especially tonight. "I love you." "Don't tell anybody." "We have each other." "That's all over now." Frankly, I found Brandon's, "This is your family" every bit as poignant as Jude's "I want you to have that because I love you." I think he's really in love. A bit naive and overly romantic perhaps, but he always seems to put Callie first. I think Callie thinks she's in love, but she's way too messed up to know what that means, and she's selfish as hell. It's all wrapped up in a good heart and trying to do the right thing, but ultimately she's not thinking about Brandon at all. Yet I think it was kind of telling when she told him that she had to go through with the adoption because she couldn't betray Stef and Lena. She's putting them first in a way...her psychology is so complicated, it's hard to analyze. Completely agree with the idea that she needs to live with Robert and get into serious therapy. I don't buy for a second that this adoption is genuinely a happy ending for any of them. I just really, really hope that that the writers and showrunners either have an endgame in mind or think one up during the hiatus. I want all of this to make sense in the end. I guess I'll tune in for the first few episodes of 3b and see what happens, but I don't have high hopes at this point. ETA: Lena and Monte are adults. The feelings are entirely one sided. There was a single unreturned kiss. And it nearly destroyed the family. Would anyone think it was a good idea for Monte to move in? Or believe that she and Lena could be sisters? I don't get why two teenagers who are mutually attracted to each other should be held to a higher standard. Of course, I also don't get why there was fallout on the show from that, and absolutely none from Brallie.

I feel sick. Like, physically ill. I don't care which side of the adoption aisle you're on, this was not OK. If the truth had come out, there was a cliffhanger till next season, a few episodes were spent working through it all in counseling...maaaybe. I might could be convinced. But for a show that talks about different kinds of family, and how pieces of paper don't matter, the only message I got out of tonight was "Lie your ass off at any cost, because the piece of paper is the only thing that matters." I just can't with this show. And that's sad, because I've loved it since episode 1.

I agree with all of this, and I hate that Marianna's virginity is all tied up in the cheating story. Not only will we never know how she would have felt about losing her virginity to Matt, but what if it had been Wyatt but they were both single? Callie's ex might not have been the smartest choice, but if Marianna and Matt had broken up before the tour, it would have been an interesting direction to explore. I know they touched on that angle, but it was definitely a secondary storyline to the cheating. Between the two, I fear Marianna is going to develop some long lasting issues around sex.

That's what I think too. I never got an ounce of chemistry in the Callie-Wyatt relationship, at least from her side. It read very much to me like he was her rebound. And I think deep down, her panic attack partially stemmed from wanting to reclaim her "first time" in a sense, and do it on her terms with someone she actually loved. If she had sex with Wyatt, she'd have a rape and a rebound in her past and no more opportunity for a do over. I don't deny that the Brallie scene probably would have been enhanced by a moment of him asking if she was sure and her owning it, but I don't think the lack of that dragged it down either. She seemed pretty obviously into it. In response to various other posts, I do see a lot of chemistry and longing between Brandon and Callie in every scene they have together. I also don't get the general disdain for David as an actor. I think Brandon is hot, exactly the look and personality I would have gone for at that age, and I think David portrays him honestly and authentically. I don't believe that love conquers all, and I've been in the position in my own life of having to walk away from a "one true love" that was highly destructive. So I don't naively expect these two to live happily ever after. But I do think, as someone mentioned earlier, that they have one of those rare inexplicable connections that deserves to be explored. And if handled delicately, it could give us much richer and more plausible storylines than "how can Callie's adoption get screwed up again this week?"

I'm genuinely curious about the demographics of the anti-Brallie contingent, and how many "troubled teens" they've actually known. I've known hundreds--in the system, out of the system, runaways, throwaways, living in foster care, living in warehousing situations, living in psych wards, living on the streets....and I honestly can't think of one in the 15-18 age bracket who was seriously looking for a "forever family." A safe place to land, yes. A way out of a horrific background, yes. Somewhere to live and be safe and shower regularly, absolutely. A way to get caseworkers and psychologists and judges off their backs, no doubt. But every one I've known has ultimately just been counting down the days to turning 18 and having control over their own lives for once. But they're still normal teenagers, often with a layer or six of psychological issues on top. They're looking for romance, they're interested in relationships, and they're a heck of a lot more likely to believe in true love than true family. We know Callie's been raped. What other situations has she been in during her pre-Fosters history that would have sexualized her, had her turn to a guy for safety and comfort (even in a completely platonic way), or made her believe that same-age relationships (platonic, same-sex, whatever) are more trustworthy than relationships with adults? For a kid in the system, probably quite a lot. Her choosing Brandon over a "forever family" seems very much like a real, authentic choice for her character. But I don't see Brandon as a villain either, for all the reasons that others have listed. He's the child of an alcoholic who had to come to terms with his mom's lesbianism and her marrying a woman, had all these kids brought into his life, been raped and assaulted, and dealt with the loss and slow recovery of his greatest talent, piano, due to the damage to his hand. It's not his job to be Callie's psychoanalyst, social worker, or any other adult role. He's as psychologically impacted as she is, although in very different ways. So they're two damaged people of the same age who found something wonderful in each other. They tried to suppress it in favor of the adoption dream, when Callie REALLY needed it for both herself and Jude. But as obstacle after obstacle have been thrown in that path, while Callie's situation has changed such that she doesn't need it in the same way, they've gotten further and further confirmation that life is a bitch, adult promises don't work out, but they're still there for each other through all of it. And they've chosen to pursue that. How does that possibly say anything bad about either of them?

My guess? Rebound. For whatever reason, she is/was still invested in the adoption at that time, which would take Brandon off the table forever. So Wyatt and now AJ were her attempts at getting over him. Definitely not a good choice, but it happens at any age, never mind 17. And just to be clear, I don't necessarily advocate that they're meant to be...just that they have a romantic connection that runs deeper than an idle flirtation that can be turned off at will. If their relationship was allowed to run its course it might last forever, it might last a few months or years and then turn into a close friendship, who knows? But I think we've been repeatedly shown that they are extremely special to each other. Even if they broke up, I don't think they'd stop caring for each other or cut each other out of their lives. How come Mariana isn't getting the same condemnation for rebounding with Wyatt, while she and Mat were still together? Isn't it the same kind of thing?