Luckylondon
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Never mind
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10 hours ago, LotusFlower said:
Leave it to Bugs to bring the issue up in the first place. Sandy only asked Adam what time he went to bed because Bugs intentionally told her that Hannah didn't hit the sack until 4 AM. What a rat.
I think the crew alternate shifts in order to always be available for the guests almost round-the-clock, so that at least one stew stays up 'till the last guest goes to bed, and the other stews, who went to bed early, get up early for breakfast service. Bugs said that as chief stew, she thinks it's best to always be up early to help the guests plan their day, which is certainly her prerogative, but since she's not chief stew, it was another dig at Hannah.
THIS!! Bugs was so shady this episode, yet this specific comment to the captain was such passive-aggressive sabotage to hint that Hannah was inappropriate in her duties The captain did not need to know that Hannah came in to her bunk to sleep at 4:30 am, which "confused" Bugs and she got "disoriented" thinking it was time to get up and she might have "overslept." Captain Sandy's antenna went straight up on that and she starts asking questions. To Adam, "Did YOU have to stay up that late too?" And Adam said, "No, I was done and went to bed at 2:30 am." Bugs purposefully got Captain Sandy's antenna up and she became suspicious of WHY Hannah was up so late, even if she WAS taking care of guests up that late (she wasn't, well... just one, lol), It immediately put concern on Sandy's radar that Hannah may be staying late "to party" with the guests. She even made that general announcement at the tip meeting that it may be tempting to party with guests, it is not acceptable. Bugs just threw shade on Hannah for staying up so late, when there was no reason to report when Hannah went to sleep except to make her look like she is unprofessional. Besides the clandestine make out sesh with the primary, (which no one knew about), and the flirting attention that was then only continued after he left the charter, Hannah has never shirked her duties in any way by mismanaging her time and not attending to guests. Bugsy simply wanted to make Hannah look bad for returning to her cabin so late that it might trigger Sandy to question why and investigate when the guests went to sleep. It was super shady and proved to me, more than any of the other shenanigans, that Bugsy is really trying to undermine Hannah and make Hannah look bad and/or irresponsible to the boss. It is no one's business what time Hannah went to bed. Bugsy and Lauren were on for mornings. It is another case of Bugsy inserting her *opinion* that chief stew "should" be on in the mornings in order to communicate with the guests first thing. That is what you think, Miss-I-would-be-so-much-better-at-running-the-interior-than-Hannah. And this was all BEFORE she found the iPad. STFU Bugs. If Hannah is on late and you are on early, it is none of your fucking business what time she goes to bed, unless it is interefering with your ability to do your job-- and it is not! SUCH A CATTY MOVE.
That said, 1 point to add regarding Hannah, and also Kate's, personality, coping with stress, and management style. I have noticed that they both often tend to split in idealization and devaluation of one stew v. the other. So, in this case, Hannah brought some of this on herself because her personality "hurt" and "pissed off" Bugsy, who then was looking for opportunities to prove her own belief that Hannah was not so great as Chief Stew and making mistakes.
From the beginning, Hannah complained to Bugsy about how they were so busy that she did not have time for and could not deal with Lauren's crying issues about feeling alienated from everyone because of Bobby, and her hiding in the laundry room. Bugsy offered to step up and help be empathetic to Lauren and give her the attention she needs and help to get her on track-- which Hannah was thrilled about! Yes, thank you for dealing with her and listening to her anxieties about nonsense drama that I don't have time for and show her how to do some other interior stuff. Hannah had too much other stuff getting the boat ready and first few charters and had little patience for Lauren's melodramatics. It appears that Bugsy took this as an assignment that she would manage Lauren and how to best handle her emotional issues and give her tasks. When things became too much, Hannah came in to the guest bedroom to have a stew talk with both, find out what IS THE PROBLEM STILL with Lauren and listened, gave a little love and empathy and how she wanted it handled moving forward. This made Bugsy rather upset that Hannah intruded in this manner because in Bugsy's mind, Hannah had put Bugsy in charge of supervising and handling problem child Lauren, which Bugsy felt she was doing quite well at that task. Bugsy seemed affronted that Hannah got involved in talking to Lauren and telling her how it is going to be from now on. Bugsy even challenged Hannah in the moment and Hannah said, yes you have been primarily dealing with Lauren, but I am Chief Stew and we have got to get it together, it is enough already, and this is how it will be done from here and what I expect. That was the first great insult to Bugsy. THEN, Hannah suggested that instead of Hannah going shopping with Adam, that it might be a nice treat for Bugsy to go and get off the boat, especially after her grandmother grief. Bugs and Adam bonded. THEN, when Adam was being awful to Hannah and suggested Bugsy be Chief Stew because she can do better, Hannah became so annoyed with Adam for undermining her in front of Bugsy and also angry with Bugsy for not saying anything. This turned in to a lot of Hannah's anger and frustration getting pointed at Bugsy and created a new triangle where Lauren was now the golden child who Hannah could vent to, and Bugsy "developing this giant head that she thinks she could do a better job." Adam and his onions were a big part of this too, yet Bugsy was suddenly being obviously ignored and talked about all night out with drinks as Hannah now aligned with Lauen and Bugsy was on the outs. All of this was obvious and appeared to have been stressful and upsetting for Bugsy. When you go out with co-worker's and your boss has given you a task and then taken it away (in Bugsy's mind), then takes the dickhead chef's words and blames her for it and is blatantly talking shit about Bugsy ALL NIGHT to the former problem child, who now appears they are BFFs. This created great resentments for Bugsy and she became defensive. Then once defensive, she (consciously or not consciously) began to look for and point out ways to others in which she felt Hannah was "not professional" and how Bugsy would have handled it differently (and better).
To summarize, Bugsy is completely inappropriate and a dick for saying that "casually" to the captain. However, I do think Hannah's tendency to personally split and triangulate this season contributed to Bugsy's feelings towards Hannah; and had all of that not occurred, Bugsy *may have* (who knows?) been more loyal to Hannah, rather than throwing her under the bus and quickly involving the people who she is now close with (the deck crew) because she has been increasingly iced out by the stews.
Bugsy may have gone ahead and been disloyal and sneaky and disrespectful anyway. We shall never know. However, the way that Hannah handled the stress with Adam and had she not become so passive-aggressive that night with Bugsy and talked to her directly (instead of ABOUT HER to everyone in front of her face), Bugsy *may* have had warmer feelings and loyalty to Hannah, instead of feeling abandoned by her. Classic conflict resolution mistakes that trickle down and escalate in to later actions and consequences.
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On 6/6/2017 at 6:29 PM, Major Bigtime said:
Thank you @biakbiak, found it. It has good ratings, but that orange carpet...gawd!
The floors appears to be hard wood, yet reflects the light and picks up warm copper tones and it can look like orange carpet. I think that is what you are referring to. I didn't see any orange carpet, just hard wood and area rugs. However, you may be looking at something else that I'm not seeing!
It looks like a nice place to stay, great location. The bedrooms look small *for me.* Others may love that. I like to have some space in a hotel room if I am with another person!
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2 hours ago, xtwheeler said:
That's where I think maybe the term "personality disorder" OS opposed to run of the mill "mental illness" is being misunderstood. With, say, bipolar disorder, the disorder is, to some extent, superimposed on top of the individual personality. This is in part because things like bipolar & schizophrenia tend to manifest after basic personality traits are mostly established. A bipolar person has a mostly established identity, and then bipolar disorder develops on top of that, largely as a biochemical disorder. When properly controlled with medication and therapy, bipolar disorder can be essentially in remission, and the underlying, formed personality is again able to function.
A personality disorder is actually a disordered development of the inherent personality. Through therapy you can work on how that disordered personality is expressed, and you can learn behavior modification, but it is always going to be intrinsic.
Here is the analogy. Let's say you are moderately allergic to peanuts. Picking them off of stuff is ok, but eating them is not. You are served two giant sundaes. One is two scoops of vanilla ice cream, chocolate sauce, whipped cream, a cherry, and chopped peanuts on top. You can have the kitchen scrape off the peanuts and eat your sundae without triggering your allergy. The other sundae is two scoops of peanut butter ice cream with rivers of peanut butter, chocolate and peanut butter sauce, and topped with whipped cream and peanuts. No matter what you do those peanuts are integrated to sundae, and cannot be separated out. You cannot unmake the ice cream or sauce and strip out the peanuts. First sundae is personality plus bipolar peanuts, second sundae is personality disorder.
So when you say "it is not her personality disorder, it is HER" you're both right and wrong. It IS her personality disorder BECAUSE she is her personality disorder. Unless and until we can rewrite the basic building blocks of an individual's personality and identity (and grapple with those ethics) there is "management" of a personality disorder but no "fix." And the coldness you see, the disregard for others, the mercenary behavior, that IS her and IT IS her personality disorder.
So much YES to this!! So well said XTWHEELER. A Personality Disorder is not a Mental Illness in the same sense that depression, anxiety, bipolar or schizophrenia are mental illnesses that have biological bases and can be treated with medication and therapy. In the long used 5-Axis system (Axis system stopped with new DSM-V), a Personality Disorder was not listed on Axis I with the mental illnesses, nor listed on Axis III with medical illnesses, it was put on Axis II where learning disorders or pervasive developmental disability would be. Not because people with Personality Disorders have learning Disorders or intellectual Disorders or deficits, it is just not considered a physical mental illness. They used to call them Character Disorders. It doesn't make them any less real, it simply has to do with a person's development and something has gone wrong in the developmental structuring of their personality (e.g., their interface with the world is broken). It can be broken in different ways, which is why there are 10 different Personality Disorders broken into 3 clusters. Your interface with the world affects your thought processing (coming in and going out), your emotion regulation and appropriate affect, your interpersonal functioning, and your ability to tolerate distress. People are not able to be diagnosed with a PD until at least 18, because the personality has not yet fully formed. Yet, when the formation of that interface is broken and misperceives things in thoughts and expresses things inappropriately in behavior, is not able to appropriately tolerate distress or regulate emotion or participate in healthy interpersonal relationships, that is when there is a problem. To be a disorder though, it needs to significantly impact at least your social, interpersonal, family, and or occupational functioning (meaning your ability to live appropriately).
Personality Disorders are incredibly hard to treat and for a long time believed to be untreatable because it is the core and structure of who you are and how you have developed. It cannot be treated with medication to balance your brain chemistry, it is changing how you think, perceive, react, understand, feel, relate, and function in relation to self and others. The treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder (if you can even find it) is usually inpatient co-occurring with something else. Insurance doesn't pay for Personality Disorders as it is not a "Mental Illness" mental illness. One specialized treatment is Dialectal Behavior Therapy, which is a lot of cognitive and behavioral therapy with Eastern philosophy and mindfulness brought in to help the person stay in a place of "wise mind" and not crossing over "the border" in to complete emotional thinking which leads to destructive behaviors. "Borderline" is an antiquated term and confusing to many. These people are not psychotic in the way that a person with schizophrenia can be. However, when they are distressed (and they don't have a high threshold for distress), they cross over the "border" in to what appears to be psychotic and delusional type thinking and behavior. When they calm down, they can return back to more rational thinking. The goal of treatment is to teach coping skills to tolerate distress in order to remain in the "wise mind" which in a Venn diagram would be the middle between rational and emotional thinking, and working hard to avoid either extreme of not having any emotions in decision making or not having any rational thought in decision making, staying in the middle.
Most people with Personality Disorders don't necessarily seek treatment. The most common to end up in treatment is Borderline Personality Disorder because these people are highly self destructive and destructive in the lives (legal problems) of those around them due to their inability to tolerate distress or regulate emotion and outrageous swings of behavior. Many people with BPD do self-medicate to "handle things" and end up in treatment and many are extremely unhappy because they cannot successful function and want help. It is not easy to treat or change, yet it is possible to help someone learn to cope and function and have plans in place when feelings of distress start. Yet, back to the original poster's point, this is interwoven in to the fabric of the person and that is why it is so difficult to change. It IS WHO YOU ARE and how your internal structure was built. Which is why they make people bonkers because people feel like they have control over their manipulation and outbursts and act horribly anyway. And they DO have control as we all have free will; they just don't know another way to function without A LOT of therapeutic intervention.
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21 hours ago, lunastartron said:
Thank you for the clarification and this insightful reply. I clipped only due to length but it gave me a lot to think about and I largely agree with many/most of your points.
Thanks for reading it and your response! Glad to have you ask and have the oppportunity to elaborate and clarify my post and my thoughts/experience on the topic. :)
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1 hour ago, lunastartron said:
So Kathryn is not only responsible for her own conduct and bad behavior but that of others (specifically, those more than a decade older than she) as well? (I thought Cameran didn't even know her)
Wow. As an earnest and straight-faced contention, this is really kind of scary.
No. However, the behavior of someone with this personality, this often is the result. Typically, people become disorganized, frustrated, and annoyed with others who don't agree on how to respond to the personality disordered persons behaviors-- especially if they don't understand this is a personality disorder. That disorganization that can disrupt a room of people or a treatment team meeting of doctors on how to best handle or respond to their behaviors because many get very triggered by what they feel is manipulative, horrible avoidable behavior that should not be rewarded with attention and others who see the self destructive-Ness as a reaction to wounds and pain that their fragile sense of self cannot sustain and that it is a symptom created by the internal emotional storm that drives the behavior and that needs to have a very specific standardized response. That disorganization felt inside the person, yes, it can affect how others feel about the person, and they feel disorganized and frustrated and upset and don't like it. They either want to help or run away, which is exactly how Kathryn presents when distressed. The "I hate you! Wait don't leave me!" dichotomy. So no, Katheryn is not an all powerful guru; however, anyone deeply involved with a person with this disorder may have witnessed how just discussing them and how to respond to them can whip a family system or a group (like this dysfunctional group) in to hysterics very quickly and like no other. Because the behavior is baffling and frustrating, manipulative and terribly self-destructive, and completely exhausting; yet it is often coming from a place of complete internal disorganization. So for those who are unaware of how to deal with this disorder, some will have empathy for the pain that they see and others feel that the person is very aware of their behavior and it is manipulative and intentional and this can cause disagreement at in how to deal with the person, just as it did last night.
Your personality does affect how others feel around you, and my point is that how disorganized and crazy they get in a hot second just discussing Kathryn's behavior is likely the disorganization she feels internally most of the time. Which is why they can look to destructive behaviors to escape the internal discomfort.
To me, Kathryn's behavior is manipulative, she is erratic, impulsively emotional, especially at ANY perceived slight or wound to her. However, I don't think she is in control of her behavior and can just stop it or she would. No one wants to feel or act like that, especially on TV. It is her PERSONALITY. That is why these disorders are extremely difficult to treat because your personality is how you interface with the world and the filter through which you make all of your perceptions and arrive at conclusions and the way you know to interact with others. If you are told to just change your personality, you can't. There are some successful treatments for borderline personality disorder-- because there are many who desperately want to stop acting destructively when they feel that pain-- and it sounds like Kathryn was exposed to some of it from the language I noticed her using when she came back from treatment.
I don't want to derail this. I am not her doctor. I was agreeing with Sun Bun's observation. I have worked inpatient with long term patients, including some severe borderline personality disorder, and in my opinion only, that is what Kathryn is dealing with in addition to heavy substance abuse. Yes, others have mentioned that it looks like any of the Cluster B personality disorders, histrionic, narcissistic, anti-social, yet in my opinion, it is very much borderline personality behavior. I hope that she continues with the "mindfulness" approaches she mentioned at yoga as coping mechanisms as these will help keep her feeling grounded and feel she can handle things when the emotional storm hits.
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2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:
LOL I'm no professional. Not diagnosing. Just observing and asking questions.
Well, I am and Kathryn absolutely meets those criteria and presents as personality disordered. She is not my patient, however, we all have observed a lot and everything about Kathryn screams borderline personality disorder to me. Of particular note, how disorganized she makes others. Just bringing up her turned that party of adults in to yelling at each other (none of whom were Thomas) and told to go home. And she wasn't even there. I have seen this happen to treatment teams many times. Kathryn's personality structure is very broken, and dysfunctional in accomplishing any effective social, relationship, occupational functioning. To me, the substance use is a symptom and needs treatment as she will never get better without it, but the personality disorder is the larger issue and they complicate each other.
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On 5/11/2017 at 0:51 PM, Atlanta said:On 5/11/2017 at 9:50 AM, Misslindsey said:
Does anyone know is Tinsley went to college? She just sounds a bit flighty to me. I do not mind her so far. Also, was it the first episode where she said she wears her hair the same way because when she was in her more of a socialite days the media would recognize her? I guess I would like to see her do something different with her hair than the same curls all the time.
I believe she graduated from Columbia but started somewhere else. University of North Carolina? She wanted to be close to her then BF. Is her book worth picking up? Anyone know?
Tinsley said she went to University of North Carolina (I assumed Chapel Hill) and transferred to NYU to be with Topper and graduated from there. UNC Chapel Hill is a great school and requires strong academics from out of state applicants. Other factors do help to get in anywhere though. My former boyfriend's father owned a surfacing company that first had the patent on the tracks that were softer (I am not saying that right, hopefully you know what I mean-- they have more cushion and give) and are much better to run on for your joints. He installed the new track and field at UNC Chapel Hill in the 90's and thus worked closely with the Athletic Director and the Track and Field Coach. He also made a large donation and my former boyfriend's younger brother got in to UNC through pull from the Athletic Director wanting him on the track team for javilon or some bullshit. He never ran track in his life and definitely didn't at Chapel Hill. However, if the Athletic department really wants you, your grades don't have to be as high. (Many of my friends in college were Varsity Athletes. No athletic scholarships are allowed in our conference-- still part of Division 1-- yet many people get in if they are great athletes and have decent grades. Still have to be good grades, but not even close to the scores they would need if not playing football or lacrosse). Legacies also get in with easier standards. After another donation to the Athletic booster club, my former boyfriend was accepted and went to The Keenan-Flagler School of Business at UNC Chapel Hill for his MBA. He had good GMAT scores and work experience, however, I have no idea if he could have gotten in to the #15 ranked MBA program without the extra pull of being a family who is certainly "a friend of the University" and the Athletic Director putting in a word requesting favor. He didn't even apply anywhere else because he would not go to a school that was not top 20 and he didn't think he would get in elsewhere or want to go elsewhere. He was a good candidate, yet I don't think that he could have gotten in there without that pull. Not sure. No way to know.
I do not want to imply that Tinsley bought her way into college AT ALL. I have no way to know that and it is likely untrue. She likely was accepted to both schools on her own merit. However, your family name, any history with the school, boarding at Lawrenceville and other factors all certainly affect things at many schools. Additionally, I do NOT want to imply anything bad about UNC Chapel Hill or that it is different from any other school. Instead, my point is quite the opposite; that most colleges and universities do function this way in my experience. For most of us, it is a straight forward process, however, for others, there can be other factors involved.
Regarding Kelly Bensimmon (I don't know how to quote two things). She DID go to Columbia, however, she attended an alternate program. Columbia has a program for non-traditional "adult" or older students, who are not the typical 18 year olds applying to college. My mentor attended it in his late 20's before he went on to grad school. It is a separate program with a separate application process and you are in classes with other people in this program who have typically had a different career, especially in arts, before deciding to enter college or maybe took time doing life experience before going to college. I don't think it is that hard to be accepted in to and it is a great program to be with other later in life students and your diploma is from Columbia University. It is not even remotely close to the competitiveness and high standards of SAT scores, GPA, and activities, talents required to compete for acceptance as a freshman to the college. I take nothing away from this specialized program at Columbia for non-traditional students-- I think it is a great program. But, I don't think it is too hard to get in to. If you want to go and complete the application and good recommendations, they are happy to accept your money in to the adult program. So, it may be easy to be accepted, not sure of the intensity once enrolled; however, I believe it is a strong program and good education and not a cake walk to a diploma-- you have to do the course work, ending with an Ivy League diploma. So it is a good program, however, it is not like Kelly was competing with Valedictorians with National Merit Scholarship Awards Recognition for her spot. Two totally separate entities.
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On 5/6/2017 at 11:03 AM, KungFuBunny said:
My one comment about Carole's Election Party.
Carole's wore red gloves while using her phone.
I want to know what kind of phone that is, because every phone I have had I can not use the phone while having any type of fabric on my hands. I tried mittens (Carole pronunciation would be mi ins), gloves. In all fabrics wool, leather. I can't even swipe to type in my pass code. I had to buy fingerless gloves for the winter.
Carole's red leather gloves are fingerless. She has worn them before in other seasons.
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37 minutes ago, scrb said:
Maybe her husband told her she could drop her charade of a real estate career if she dropped a couple of babies and become a stay at home mother after the reality TV was over.
What is interesting about Cameron, compared to some other women on the show, she says she does not WANT to be a stay at home mom, the way that many of the others would! She says she doesn't want to be chained to the house with babies and completely dependent on a man without ability to take care of herself. I am sure this will change a bit with children, however, I believe her need to not feel trapped in something and to be ok as an individual is something deep within her from her parents own divorce (and has nothing to do with the health of her own marriage, which seems quite happy and healthy).
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On 4/25/2017 at 7:18 PM, snarts said:
Yes, with zero listings. She must be really busy.
On 4/25/2017 at 7:18 PM, snarts said:Yes, with zero listings. She must be really busy.
Cameron doesn't take listings. She is a real estate agent for buyers only. That has been said before on the show, which is the only way I could know. I thought it was strange as I had never heard of this type of practice and that RE agents really want listings; however, I don't know much about RE listing and agents and how they specialize, so I figured it works for her as no one else ever pointed it out as odd. She is relatively new to it and had just gotten her license as Season 1 started and was still working at a department store. She seems to be doing well now in Season 5. She made a big thing about never wanting to be financially dependent on a man because of her own mother's experience and she seems to really like working and want a career. So much so that the issue of having a baby is coming up in her life. Jason is 10 years older (41 ish) and wants kids. Cameron wasn't sure and definitely did not want to be home with a baby right now. She wants to continue working and socializing right now.
EDIT: Apparently, Cameron and Jason announced that they are pregnant! So she worked through her issues about feeling unsure about it. Whether it was storyline or not, it rang true to me in that I could really relate to how she felt at 30 or 31 and everyone asking about a baby and it just feeling like it is something you want in theory, but would freak you out right now. I appreciated her giving voice to that because no one really talks about it and you NEED to talk about it to know if other people feel this too and then you just dive in and it's great or if how you feel is different and you need to really think and plan. I am a New Yorker so the pressure is less at younger ages, but it is still there and time flies! I am glad she talked about it and it helped her figure it out. Congrats to Cam and Jason! And to Craig! ;)
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Nevermind ;)
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They have said it was in Westport CT. Westport is about 50 miles outside of NYC and is a nasty commute by car.
Thank you Lemons and Margherita! I somehow missed this. It was driving me crazy as it does look like Connecticut, but I couldn't figure out where. Westport makes perfect sense as they do have financial services industry there and it is not too far from NY. Horrible commute for Wendy though! Not that they care of such things on TV.
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Government buildings are downtown too. By the By the Brooklyn Bridge... kind of. Not as far down as the financial district.
I don't know if Axe Capital is in CT, Westchester, or Long Island. It is hard to tell. But millions commute in to the city from those places, so a reverse commute or setting up in Westchester, CT or Long Island is not too strange and certainly makes for a nicer office building for us to look at.
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I had to quote myself as the post would not let me edit weeks later. After watching more episodes (9?), I want to amend my post that it is likely that when Lara talks about the "old neighborhood" she is likely talking about Inwood, a town on Long Island-- not the one in Manhattan. It is in Nassau County and is just on the border of Queens and fits with the story and geography that we are shown. "Joy ride in the Fiero" and "steal earrings at the mall", etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inwood,_New_YorkI am fairly certain that Lara is referring to the Inwood at the tip of Manhattan that used to have a very Irish population and still does a bit, yet now has more of a Hispanic population, mostly Dominican. It still does have an insular feel to it of working class families and it still does have working class Irish pockets. That makes sense as where she is from as opposed to Inwood in Nassau County, Long Island. I don't recall them ever referencing Staten Island and that does not really make sense with what they have shown of her and she would have a stronger more stereotypical NY accent (ever see Mob Wives? Jk) that people think everyone from NY has... but it really depends where you are from and where your parents are from, I suppose.
Inwood is the northern most tip of Manhattan and it is a long subway (train ride) to get anywhere! It is very close to a section of The Bronx, separated by a narrow part of the Harlem River and over time, many working class Irish have followed other traditional migrating patterns that occur over time in the history of NYC, and have migrated out of Manhattan in to the Bronx and suburbs. Axe is supposed to be from The Bronx, correct? That makes sense as Axe and Lara are both working class city kids who didn't have anything easy growing up, yet both have strong family values and connections to the insular type "neighborhoods" where they are from that helped shape who they are as people. Both Axe and Lara are quite driven, in different ways, yet both are fiercely loyal and seem to view this quality or viscerally understand that loyalty is more important and valuable than anything that can be bought. They seem to know how rare it is in the world that they function in and they will fiercely protect their own and are generous in helping those they know and love. Yet, if loyalty or trust is ever breached, it can't be earned back and you will never get close enough to hurt them again. I think this is part of why Axe is so loyal to Lara.
ETA: demographic source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inwood,_Manhattan
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Axe Capital is definitely in the suburbs just outside of NYC. Westchester, Connecticut or Long Island. I have heard someone mentioned they thought it was Connecticut. It seems like LI to me. Just be the ease of access and also to the Hamptons. Wendy lives in Brooklyn too. That would be a pain to get to CT... or well anywhere... except downtown NYC where Chuck works. I am not sure the landscape has me confused too.
On another episode thread the question was raised where Lara is from with all her "old neighborhood" talk of Inwood. I thought she might be referring to Inwood Manhattan, the northern most point on Manhattan island. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inwood,_Manhattan
However, now I think she is referring to Inwood, a town on Long Island that seems to fit better. It is in Nassau County, right on the border of Queens. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inwood,_New_York
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Im confused about the setup too. How did Willa find the other kidnapped boy (Ben) if that's how it went. I'd think she'd just find some random unhappy 20 yr old. The other implies that she knows the kidnapper, knew there was a second boy, knew that he escaped . OR .. IDK what Im saying. And as mentioned, it'd be better - less risky- to leave it all alone for the gov race - than to find a fake Adam.
What was it that Nina (LE) said about Jane, pregnant wife of pockmark, when she saw her on the tape of the mall? That she knew about the tunnels or burrows or what?
Adam in that box was horrifying and that Hungry Like the Wolf gave me the creeps too. Was that even his dog?
Also, Adam was 5 for the appendix surgery. I think surgery in that year (15 yrs ago) wouldn't leave a huge scar like in the previous procedures.
Nina interviewed the pock-marked Guy's pregnant wife when she went to ask someone about all the oil holes and tunnels and locations and who would have access to such things. The woman was friendly and told her that almost anyone who worked there would, she guessed. So Nina remembers her from when she interviewed her in that office that has all the oil company paperwork and maps.
Yes, I believe that dog belonged to the pock-marked guy. His notebook was indicsting how long the dog was out for each time and how many drops of the chloroform-type stuff he used. He increased the drops each time and measured the time. The dog may weigh a similar weight to a small child to use as a comparison was what I saw him doing.
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This episode is playing right now. Kristen agrees to dinner with James. They meet and start talking. She asks if he slept with Jenna (very pretty red-head, works at Villa Blanca, Scheana's bridesmaid). He says, "Yeah." She says, "I can't believe it! You told me all you did was make out!" James says, "I did? Oh. *small whoops giggle*"
Kristen had to go outside and have a minute. James is following her outside cooing all sorts of nice things and "let me just hug you, please" things. And Kristen is like, "no, I just need to not be touched and have space right now" and lights her cigarette. Then with tears in her eyes she says, "you slept with her when we were together and you totally lied to me about it. Do you not see why that is upsetting me right now?" Ugh. Stassi would have backhanded his ass right there and walked away and cried after. There would have been a big crying scene with her girlfriends and alcohol, but it would be be AFTER she backhanded his ass and stomped off. Kristin goes home and has sex with him. Ugh.
I am really missing old Stassi. *sigh*
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I still cry laughing when I watch them! Somehow you realize how even more hysterical and insane the dialogue and words they say are when the dolls say it. Love. It.
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BTW, in case anyone hasn't seen this. The VanderDoll Rules: The Totally True and Addictively Dysfunctional Love Story of Jax & Stassi (As Told in 8 (Doll) parts)
Part 1: Brunch
Part 2: The Break-up
Part 3: OMG Dude
Part 4: Birthday Bash
Part 5: Not a Rebound
Part 6: Exposed
Part 7: Girl Talk
Part 8: I Still Love You Very Much
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Watching the Uncensored Season 1 special again. Bill Langworthy, EP, says, the first day of shooting, it is like 10:41 am and Stassi is ordering double drink orders.
Stassi, "I will have a Sauvignon Blanc... aaaand a Mimosa please, thanks." Stassi and Jax start fighting because she is drinking so much.
Stassi, "I don't care, I take care of myself, I take care of my dog... (Unintelligible arguing resulting that "at least I don't sleep on the couch!")
Jax says, "yeah, I slept on the couch! At that point I was not about to get in bed with the devil."
And Stassi says, "I AM the DEVIL. And DON'T you FORGET IT!!" Everyone is silent.
I flipping miss old Stassi so much!!
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This is silly, but I have a little connection to the VPR chuckleheads. I went to college with the executive producer of the show. And he was on the Behind the Scenes episode! He also made an appearance Season 1 during that fight in the parking lot when Tom Sandoval took off his shirt and Jax took off his chunky sweater and was ready to kill Frank like a raging bull. I saw producers run into frame and one with a headset and I was like..."Is that Bill Langworthy?!!" Ha!! It IS! What is HE going to DO?" Then by the producer van I saw him saying, "Jax, No! No! Stop" and talking to him as several other guys were trying to hold Frank and Jax apart. I was dying because that whole scene is amazing in the Marrakech restaurant and the parking lot nonsense and then to have producers run in and Bill Langworthy wearing a headset talking these guys down adds another level of hilarity for me. He is a great nice chill smart guy. I have no idea how he became a reality TV producer on Laguna Beach and the head producer on Vanderpump Rules! Crazy! Good for you, Bill!
It is funny in that Behind the Scenes episode he said that he believed Jax!! He got Jaxed too! "Because it is too frightening to live in a world where someone can lie right to your face and everyone else, so easily and so well." Ha!
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I am fairly certain that Lara is referring to the Inwood at the tip of Manhattan that used to have a very Irish population and still does a bit, yet now has more of a Hispanic population, mostly Dominican. It still does have an insular feel to it of working class families and it still does have working class Irish pockets. That makes sense as where she is from as opposed to Inwood in Nassau County, Long Island. I don't recall them ever referencing Staten Island and that does not really make sense with what they have shown of her and she would have a stronger more stereotypical NY accent (ever see Mob Wives? Jk) that people think everyone from NY has... but it really depends where you are from and where your parents are from, I suppose.When I heard her say Inwood, I actually thought she was referring to the one in Manhattan, which would make a bit more sense from a "tough girl" perspective, but didn't really make sense from the rest of the conversation about taking the train. maybe the writers have no idea what they're talking about and are confusing the two?
Inwood is the northern most tip of Manhattan and it is a long subway (train ride) to get anywhere! It is very close to a section of The Bronx, separated by a narrow part of the Harlem River and over time, many working class Irish have followed other traditional migrating patterns that occur over time in the history of NYC, and have migrated out of Manhattan in to the Bronx and suburbs. Axe is supposed to be from The Bronx, correct? That makes sense as Axe and Lara are both working class city kids who didn't have anything easy growing up, yet both have strong family values and connections to the insular type "neighborhoods" where they are from that helped shape who they are as people. Both Axe and Lara are quite driven, in different ways, yet both are fiercely loyal and seem to view this quality or viscerally understand that loyalty is more important and valuable than anything that can be bought. They seem to know how rare it is in the world that they function in and they will fiercely protect their own and are generous in helping those they know and love. Yet, if loyalty or trust is ever breached, it can't be earned back and you will never get close enough to hurt them again. I think this is part of why Axe is so loyal to Lara.
I find these 2 characters quite compelling as they have moved through such great socio-economic status in their adult life to become billionaire's (is that accurate or just the name of the show?). Yet Axe values his old friends and Lara her family. They move in these circles, yet are quite obviously new money, which does not necessarily get you entreé to Society and this is alluded to by others, at times. However, I don't think either cares or would even want that. Their children, however, will likely naturally be part of that Society.
It is interesting to watch the socioeconomic status issues play out as a background dynamic, almost as its own character or subplot. Paul Giamatti's character has a lot of issues regarding his own upbringing and privilege and need to prove something. I believe part of why he hates Axe so much is that he is so successful and doesn't belong, in Giamatti's mind, which makes him a thug to be squashed so that Giamatti's can feel bette about himself. Plus his daddy issues and all that.
ETA: demographic source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inwood,_Manhattan
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I just wrote about this in the episode 1 thread. The moles on the face of Adam as a child are on his left cheek. The adult Adam the moles are on his right cheek. It is making me crazy that no one in his family or police would notice. I thought maybe they were ignoring it as "close enough" for casting purposes and we wouldn't notice. Yet it was making me question Adam from the first episode and now with other evidence compiling, I am questioning if it is the same kid too.OK. I'm in just for the sake of curiosity.
My big problem is that in real life the kid has to be the real Adam because everyone can see the moles on the side of his face. Either he had them or not. I'm having a lot of trouble suspending my disbelief.
Also, I haven't seen the actress playing Willa before so maybe it's just this show, but she needs makeup. Maybe they are trying to make her look nefarious. Her face just fades out into a wash. Creepy.
I think that DNA and microchipping lab has millions and millions to make in state and federal contracts if The Governor wins, especially on a platform of tracking sex offenders with a GPS chip. I think they have motive to make everyone believe this is her son. They are involved. Not sure how much the Mom and Daughter know. To me, the mom does not seem as if she knows. She seems traumatized, yet eager to use it as a platform to move forward. Rationalization? Probably. But I don't think she is aware Adam is not Adam. The daughter... I don't know....
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S01.E03: Part III
in The Sinner
· Edited by Luckylondon
Moved 2 paragraphs to Episode IV
Who is Freddie? I am so confused! Did you mean Frankie? The man Cora stabbed at the beach?
I agree with others that the opening sequence is interesting and similar to Orphan Black. I like that they are showing us the obscure pattern, then it turns into a Rorschach Test looking ink blot, which is used in psychoanalytic psychological assessment as a measurement tool that provides information about your social and emotional functioning based not only on what you see in 10 standardized ink blots, but more specifically how you see them. So it is testing your subconscious or unconscious thought process. It is highly standardized in administration and scoring, yet rarely used now because it can be controversial compared to quantitative measures.
Personally, I love the Rorschach and have gleaned great information using it along with many other testing measures in a psychological assessment battery; however, I was heavily trained by psychologists with great expertise in this test. I find that in real life, it is not used often. I think it is a cool visual to use the inkblot and have it turn in to Cora's face at the end of the intro; indicating they are probing inside her subconscious and unconscious thoughts to discover what is going on inside this person who has brutally murdered someone and cannot offer explanation other than it is tied to a song from a past she can't remember.