SassAndSnacks

I've been watching episodes here and there on the treadmill for the last few weeks. I skipped over Season 2, with the exception of Prestonpans. Season 2 depresses me, as does Book 2, so I tend to not go back through those. I watched The Doldrums yesterday while running. It was better than I had remembered.

There has to be something to this. You need the gene to "travel" so where did she get it? I read that DG is writing a prequel on Jamie's parents. I'm not knocking that, and I'm sure it'll be a great story. I want to know more about Claire. Who were her parents, more on Uncle Lamb and her unconventional upbringing, more on her time during WWII. She's fascinating and wonderful. And not to be a total fangirl, but today is her birthday.

I started re-reading the Big Books in March, right after my state issued a strict lockdown. I was reading another book at the time, and every night the words would blur and I couldn't focus. I was a total anxiety-ridden basketcase, worried for my kids, my parents, trying to balance suddenly having to home-school three children and work from home. My husband works in finance, the markets were a disaster. He was on the phone all hours of the day with clients from across the country - 2:00 in the morning, during dinner time, at the kids' bedtimes. Things were a mess. I opened up Outlander, and immediately felt a sense of calm and completeness come to me. It was exactly what I needed, when I needed it. I finished Book 8 Saturday evening, tears streaming at "Hallo the House!" Sunday, I was completely bereft. Perhaps, I just need to get a life. Or maybe read some different books! Maybe something where fake people that I've come to adore aren't regularly attacked, raped, shot, slandered, threatened, etc.? But how fun would that be? I have loved MOBY since my first read of it. DG's depiction of Monmouth is riveting. Roger going back in time and meeting Jamie's dad AND his own dad! I'll never forget my shock the first time I read those moments. Claire and Jamie's reunion, his reaction to her getting shot. It's really some of Herself's best writing. This time through, I think I've finally come around to William. There were moments when I was really rooting for him. I want to see his relationship with Jamie develop. I'm intrigued by what he may do next. Similarly, I found Bree to not be as insufferable this time. I'm anxious to know how she and Roger mastered the time travel to get all 4 of them back to the Ridge. What happened? Will Cameron and his crew show up there? Where is Buck? How many more times am I going to have to read through this series before Book 9 is published? I'm guessing at least twice. So many unanswered questions. I'm most interested in learning more about Claire's parents. Will we ever learn about it? What is her connection to Fergus' birth family? My theory is that her parents didn't really die in a car crash. Perhaps they, like Roger's dad, inadvertently time-traveled. My Unofficial, Definitive Ranking of the Outlander Series - 1. Outlander 2. Written in My Own Heart's Blood 3. The Fiery Cross 4. A Breath of Snow and Ashes 5. Voyager 6. Drums of Autumn 7. An Echo in the Bone 8. Dragonfly in Amber

I love how the bolded line above was delivered on the show. So dry and matter-of-fact. My take on Claire's reaction to the little girl with red hair (Joan) was that it hit her especially hard, given that Faith and Brianna both were little red-headed girls. I'm sure the imagery was hard, in particular, with her memories of Brianna as a girl of that age with long red hair. Also recognizing her grief that Jamie never got to see Brianna at that age. My belief is that Claire felt Jamie had replaced Brianna with another, similar looking girl, and in that instance, that knowledge was especially devastating for her. My stomach dropped FOR her, first when I read it and then when I actually saw it. I actually feel so bad about it even sitting here typing about it right now. That's what Outlander does to you, I guess. As a side note, I just watched this episode on Thursday, and it so unbelievably well done, improving on some book plot holes. Ok ok ok.... You're making a convert out of me! I'm coming around on this. I still loathe the Geneva storyline, and I still loathe Frank, no matter how sympathetic people try to make the two of them (you can lump Laoghaire in there too, blech). BUT...I just finished Book 8...again...and I'm turning the corner on this. These particular plot points are growing on me, and I've made my peace with them thanks to later book points. A little bit, anyway. I understand that we had to see Jamie completely broken, and that just when we thought he wouldn't possibly be more broken, he has to leave his child. And just when we think he finds a little joy, he has it taken away. And he had to be completely broken to ever agree to a marriage with Laoghaire. And he had to be married to her to cause conflict when Claire inevitably returned to him.

I started back through this one on Saturday, word for word so far. It's so good. I've found myself furtively sneaking off into the laundry room here and there simply to get a few minutes of reading in though it's the middle of the day and I should have more important things to do. I can't put it down. I've forgiven Herself for continuously separating Jamie and Claire, because when she does that, she has to write a reunion between them, all of which are amazing, tear-inducing, breath-catching and full of love. Roger just found his dad's dog tags. Gulp! And Bree just sent the letter to Joe Abernathy telling him that she was taking the kids to see Grandma and Grandda. I seem to recall her trolling around Boston with Joe and the kids trying to determine how well Mandy and Jem could sense each other. Did I miss that? I'm typically not a Roger and Bree fan, so I have generally skimmed their sections in previous reads. I'm liking the relationship between Buck and Roger this time, and I'm digging bad-ass Bree. She's handling this situation very much like a Fraser, and I'm loving it. But freaking Ernie. Fiona would marry the most knuckle-headed of men. The pacing of this book is so much better than the previous few. And Hal is my favorite Grey. Now, take me back to Jamie and Claire, please and thank you.

Wrapping up Book 7 and super excited to move onto Book 8 (so good). Echo has a slow burn that rapidly speeds up to Mach 10 when the action returns stateside (colony-side?). In some ways, too fast? This is the third time I've read it, and I'm still wishing for more details. Or so I thought, then while driving and doing some serious thinking on all things Outlander (as one does), I surmised that the back third of this one is written with the appropriate speed and content, but I didn't appreciate that because the first 66% of it is so slow and bogged in minutiae. I think we get accustomed to the inane details of some of the side plots, and then when DG dives back into normal writing, it feels rushed. Anyway... I really like the last third of the book. From the moment they arrive in Scotland to the moment Jamie rushes into 18 Chestnut Street, I AM IN THIS! I recall the first time through not really liking the LJG + Claire = marriage, but this time I found it refreshing and human. Though, I did want to hear more about Claire's alleged spying. I gave up on the timeline (or lack thereof) with this one awhile ago, so I won't go there, but I'm interested in Claire's time in Philadelphia without Jamie. Also, why didn't she mention going back to Bree and Co.? Surely, that would have been a thought, at the very least. I also wanted to see more about Claire's evolving relationship with William. He clearly trusts her and has some affection for her. I find that I don't dislike him as much as I did at the beginning of the book. Hell is freezing over. The apocalypse is upon us (Oh, wait...). I actually, may almost, sort of, slightly like William. Just a wee bit. I wish Rachel would have ended up with William and not Ian. #IanDeservesBetter Plus, I just think Rachel and William make more sense and had more chemistry. And Jem, sweet, fiesty Jem. He reminds me of my own little red-headed chap. I was spoiled to this part of the story when I read it initially, so I don't think I had as strong a reaction during the first read. This time, my heart was in my throat. Fucking Rob Cameron. You don't mess with Jemmy! I'm SO excited to see how his story continues to unveil itself in Book 9 (hopefully). This is a special kid, and I love the connection he and Mandy have. Finally, Buck...there's more to this. It's either super flimsy writing or Herself is holding out for a big reveal with this subplot. He couldn't possibly have just mistakenly shown up there. So I'm on to Book 8 (Spoiler Alert - I already started it) and I'm damn near giddy with excitement! I can't imagine what people did when reading Echo in real time with Jem stranded in the dark, Roger rushing back through the stones, and Jamie absconding with Lord John. Oh, they must have felt as I do right now waiting for Book 9.

Agree with so many things you said here! Men holding babies, oh my heart! Especially, when it was my baby and he had made said child stop screaming. I don't know how Jamie would have gotten a son a different way. I admit it happened in the best way it could have, I guess. Was Fergus not enough? Maybe Claire could have had the son and not Bree? (I kid! Sort of...) Absolutely agree that Claire finding out in the show the way she did was better than how it went down in the book. I'm sure I was one of the initial haters of it, but after I read through the book again, it was definitely for the best. Casting Willie will be tough. I wasn't a Sophie fan at first, either, but I've come to terms with it. Really hope they at least find someone with blue eyes to play Willie.

Ooooh, I'm game for any defense of Jamie, and I understand that he has a large level of guilt associated with that part of his life. A simple, "Laoghaire, she's not a whore" would have sufficed for me here. Even said softly whilst she was ranting would have been fine. "Yes, Laoghaire. You're right, I was awful. No, I shoulda marrit ye. No, I never needed ye. But, I'll no abide by ye callin' my wife a whore." There, done.

Yay!!! What a fun surprise to pop in and see comments to something I posted in a long-dead book thread! Woo!! Parental Jamie is one of my favorite Jamies. He was clearly born to do a great many things and one of those was to be a father. I have three sons, so I think sometimes I gloss over the need that some people have for a son, or really either of the genders, as I know some women that absolutely need to have a daughter. I don't have that feeling for a daughter, and I think that because I have the boys perhaps I take for granted that I have sons and that they add a pretty distinct dynamic to our lives (you know, pee on the floor, constant wrestling, and grunted responses aside). Carrying on a name isn't important to me, but I recognize that is IS critically important to a lot of people and certainly more so in a historical context. I think DG puts a great deal of emphasis on Willie's name for that reason. No mistake that he is William, same as beloved brother, and that the length of his last name and family connections is often brought up...Ellesmere, Ransom, etc. To this point, through the books that have been written, he does nothing for me. In truth, neither does Bree. However, I read a few of the Daily Lines for Book 9 that relate to William, and I'm cautiously optimistic that he will mean something to me by the time this all ends. I hate how he got one. I do. But, I will admit that in terms of scenarios, this was probably one of the better ways to go about getting Jamie a son. I would change this part of the story, but to what I don't know. Nor do I know to what end. I would actually change several major things about the story, but that isn't fair and seems silly, really, because I love the story. I'm hooked on it, obviously, so why would I want to change it? Lord John is a stand-up guy. Truly, a Good guy in a saga with some awful people. For me, he comes across as sanctimonious sometimes, and it irks. Admittedly, I haven't read any of the LJG series, and perhaps those would develop additional context and his character for me. I find the Greys as a family to be rather boring, which is another reason I haven't read the other series. And I think it makes sense that he raised Willie and actually a great part of the story is their relationship and that he is such a loving, doting father to him. I really intensely dislike how he told Claire about Willie, though. No one messes with my girl. Summary Comments - I really liked David Berry as Lord John. I was stunned and bummed that he announced he was finished with the show, but I'm hoping that was a miscommunication of some sort. He has a pretty big part of the story line coming up. I sincerely hope they re-cast William from the kid that played him Season 4. They can do better.

I love Jamie Fraser so much. I'm all in on with the "King of Men" and "Greatest Literary Male" opinions facts. What I love most about him (I love so many things about him) is that he isn't perfect. This is what irks me most about him - He never defends Claire when someone calls her a whore or a witch. It really bothers me, and I don't think it's true to his character. In Voyager, Marsali calls Claire a whore, repeatedly, as they are on the Artemis. He doesn't stop her, correct her, put her in her place. Fergus does, but he doesn't. Maybe in this instance, because Claire was there, he didn't feel like he needed to and that she could speak up for herself. In Echo, when he visits Hosebeast at Balriggan, she repeatedly calls Claire a whore and a witch. He says nothing. I read this part last night, and it annoyed me to no end. I can't imagine that a man like JAMMF would let it pass that someone would refer to his wife as a whore. Thinking of my own husband, who shares several traits with Jamie, he would NEVER allow that to be said either in my presence or not. The person would be verbally eviscerated or flat on his/her back. With as much respect as Jamie has for Claire, I can't imagine that someone insulting his wife that way would sit well enough with him to just let it pass. And I get that Claire doesn't "need" him to defend her to these people, but by insulting his wife, they are insulting him. But mostly, she isn't what they say, and I hate that people simply go to the lowest point when trying to degrade someone and that lowest point is calling a woman a whore. For me, it's as insulting as the abhorrent c-word (which I know isn't an insult in other countries but dammit, it's as low as you can get here).

I will have to check out some of these and add them to my queue! I'm a history buff nerd. I have a degree in it from long ago. I didn't make a career out of it, so most of what I knew is gone. I love historical fiction. It's pretty much all I read, with a few biographies tossed in to the mix. I do love Jane Austen, but I can't read her all of the time.

Popping in to say - DG's writing of Ticonderoga and Saratoga is good. SO GOOD. William's POV, blah. Not a fan. Stop trying to make "William is mini-Jamie" happen. And Lord John and his family, and the intrigue, and Percy. Snoooooooooooooze. For real, if DG doesn't make something out of this Beauchamp connection and tie it back to Claire...well, I don't know what I'll do, but it'll be something drastic. I know she's writing a prequel about Jamie's parents, but what about Claire's family? How/why can she travel? What REALLY happened to her parents? Why do her grandchildren have super-sensory powers? Is it because that got a double-dose of the genes? For me, this is much more compelling than the LJG snoozefest and anything to do with William. Herself wouldn't just throw us a big ole Easter egg like that and not let us find the candy inside. Ok, we're off to Scotland! TTFN!

This is amazing! Congrats on your retirement!

If you've been following along in the other Book threads, you'll know by now that I'm in the midst of my Pandemic Outlander Series Reread. Disclaimer - Book 7 is my least favorite of the series, but I've come to a lot of realizations and have reevaluated previous feelings throughout this 3rd time through the stones. Maybe Book 7 will rise in my estimation as Book 5 did?! Let's see... I started this one over the weekend, and nope, so far, just nope. SO much William. Blah. Bree being Bree (though not as insufferable as usual). Blah. And honestly, just so much STUFF so far. Stuff that I don't care about, like freaking Dottie or the Bells or Lord Norrington. I have a "No Skipping, No Skimming" rule. but nope...not following it. I blazed right through Lord John in London. Don't care. William on Long Island - skipped it. Roger and Bree fighting about jobs. Hard pass. I want Jamie and Claire. I know it will pick up and we'll get some wonderful time back in Scotland. But, we'll also get the freaking Dismal Swamp and more William and more Bree. How can Jamie Fraser be their father? On a high note, IAN! Lots of Ian! Anyway, Jamie and Claire are about to get on a boat for High Seas Highlander Hijinks Part II. <insert facepalm> Those two should really avoid ocean travel.

What's a recent favorite of yours? My love of book men began with Almanzo Wilder circa age 8, then advanced to Gilbert Blythe around 11, then I moved onto Darcy for awhile...a long while, which was only exacerbated by Matthew MacFadyen's depiction of him. Jamie Fraser, though. Pfft. Blows them all away. No comparison. Mark me! Greatest literary man ever written. I'm game for this! What a horrible task this will be!

I love to read, and I was so captivated by the pilot (I hadn't even heard of the books before) that I just knew I had to read the story. Usually, I like to read the story first before I see the show/movie.

OK! I finished this one very early this morning. So many feelings. I don't remember being SO emotional over the later chapters of this book the other times I've read it, but wow, I was a complete blubbering waterworks. The realization that Amanda has a heart defect. Totally felt it. As a mom, I felt sick for Bree and for Claire, as well, knowing that there was nothing she could do to help her and that she would likely lose all of them for good. Sobbing. Jamie quietly slipping the gemstone into Claire's hand as she slept so that she could travel back with Bree, Rog, Jem, and Mandy. Sobbing. After Bree and Co. go through the stones again, Jamie says to Claire, "For your sake, I will continue - though for mine alone...I would not." Sobbing. Jamie dreaming of Jem picking up a phone and saying he wants to talk to Grandda. Gasping. (There is something special about Jamie we have yet to tap here, and Book 9 had better freaking do it. Herself has laid some groundwork already, i.e. ghost Jamie. Now, I want to freaking know!) Jem's box of letters showing up at Lallybroch. Sobbing again. Emotions, people! The end made me remember why I loved this book so much initially. I feel validated. A few weeks ago, I was ready to bump this one down on my series ranking list, but now I think I had it correct the first time - 1. Outlander (Book 1) 2. Written in My Own Heart's Blood (Book 8 ) 3. Fiery Cross (Book 5) 4. A Breath of Snow and Ashes (Book 6) 5. Voyager (Book 3) 6. Drums of Autumn (Book 4) 7. Dragonfly in Amber (Book 2) 8. An Echo in the Bone (Book 7) And now, onto William, the Dismal Swamp, and wonky timelines. Gah, least favorite of the series. I can do this.

YES! You said this much better than I did. I saw Sam portray Jamie first, stopped the first episode of the show...literally, right in the middle of it immediately following Claire popping Jamie's shoulder back into place, and downloaded the book. I knew I had to read it first. So, even though I technically "saw" Sam first, I "knew" Jamie from the book. And, it's a true and complete love. For both. Because how can you not love Sam Heughan? Further, how can you not love Sam Heughan as Jamie Fraser? It's a lethal combination. One of them alone is potent enough, but combined?! Holy shit.

Whoa, this is a tough question because only Sam Heughan could be Jamie Fraser. Talented, cerebral, and dreamy as Sam is, I still prefer BookJamie. I know! How?! But, it's it true. I'm actually pausing here to second guess it, but yes, BookJAMMF. And I'm even saying that after watching Episode 2 - Castle Leoch today on a 76 inch television WHILE wearing headphones and hearing every little "Scottish noise" (as DG calls them in the buiks) in the episode and seeing, in very large format, those smoldering blue eyes. And I'm still saying BookJamie. This decision may require further testing. I think I prefer the myth aside from the embodiment. Plus, I think it's beneficial in the books that we mostly see Jamie as Claire sees him, which is full of love, admiration, and respect, and so we get a fuller description of how remarkable he really is. Sam brings SO much of that TVJamie, but I'm a Claire fan-girl and I love her view of him. And I definitely need to change my Top 10 List, too.

I tried to bump this to a different thread, and I think I hodge-podged it enough to work! If you didn't see, it's in the Top 10 Episodes thread.

@Cdh20 - You said: I definitely need to watch them all with headphones. My bday is coming up, and I accidentally opened a package that wasn't meant for me and inside was a really nice pair of noise-cancelling, wireless earbuds. I'm assuming that those will be in my hands in a few weeks! 🙂 (I blamed my kids for opening the package...oops!) Anyway... Love your point in bold above, and I agree. The Reckoning is one of my favorite episodes, too. These two are so headstrong but intelligent enough to hear the other person's side of things. I love their arguments - some of the show's (and the books') best writing. I enjoy how they fight it out, see the other person's point, and become stronger for it. A. Malcolm - Jamie not so excited because 1. She was gone for a looooooong time (thanks, DG....grrr...), and I'm sure he was more than a bit shocked; and 2. He has a wife (again, thanks, DG....double grrrrr....). The Wedding - Claire was baffled and believed herself to be a bigamist (and she liked it!) To be fair, Book Claire was more into it, and that's why Book Claire is the superior Claire.

Ok, so I'm not finished with the book yet (almost). BUT, I decided to take your advice (kinda) and pop on some Outlander Wedding whilst on the treadmill. I changed my mind at the last minute and did A. Malcolm instead. Sigh. Aside from some wonky dialogue (Claire would never threaten him with leaving if he did something immoral...hate that line) and Jamie's less-than stricken reaction to Bree's photos, it really is a great adaption of the book. I had headphones in, which I highly recommend, as I picked up so much minor dialogue that I had missed before. I think I need to go back through every episode and watch that way. Also, this book is picking up for me again as we reach the finish, per usual with DG's books. The pattern - Intrigue to get you hooked, something big happens, boring minutiae, something stupid happens, breakneck speed of events about which you'd actually like more detail, the end.

This book is getting to me, and yet, I can’t put it down. (Maybe because I want it to end?) I had an amazing glass of Cabernet, and it improved things tremendously. Perhaps, I should have started my day with that? But yes, a Wedding rewatch is in order after finishing this one.

Just popping in to say the following - FUCKING MALVA CHRISTIE!! GAAAAHHHHH!!!! Right before I went to bed last night, I made the mistake of reading the chapter where she accuses Jamie of impregnating her. #@$%^&(*#$@!!!!!!!!! All of the bad words! I slept fitfully and awoke in a mood so foul that three cups of coffee and a Hershey bar couldn't fix it. I can't wait to read about her kicking the bucket tonight. But then my reward is all of the ensuing craziness that Claire and Jamie must endure to clear their names. Gah. How was this book once my favorite of the series?

So, I'm in the midst of my Pandemic Outlander Series Reread. This is my third pass though the books, and each time, I've had different impressions of each book, and I always notice things I miss in previous reads. From the first read, Book 6 has been a favorite of mine. Read #2 only solidified that affection. However, Season 5 of the show happened, and we witnessed Claire's abduction right there on our screens. And, it was so poignantly played Cait and Sam to the point where it took my breath away. And, given that it wasn't that long ago that we actually saw it, I've had some hesitations about going through this book again. Of all of the terrible things that have happened to these beloved characters, Claire's abduction, for me, ranks among the most horrific. Then, the show made it even more horrifying (see episode thread for a discussion on this). So, I wasn't sure I wanted to crack into this one just yet. But I did... And my impressions of it are different. I find myself being more embittered that Herself would put Claire through so much in this singular book (not to mention EVERYTHING she's been through). Abduction, rape, fever, F-ING MALVA CHRISTIE, accusations of adultery, a bs imprisonment, grandchildren with perilous births. I mean, how much is enough? It's just making me grumpy, frankly. And now I'm not sure this is one of my favorite books of the series. I read the abduction section yesterday, couldn't put it down. I'm in awe of how well-written it is, some of DG's best, really. I'm reminded of someone surmising that DG writes really wonderful scenes but often loses direction in the story as a whole. This is a pretty astute observation.