The Morning Star

Oh the set is probably a family, writers however aren't really a part of that set. Sheppard's issues are probably with them.

BTW when's the new gag reel coming out?

No one's happy....lol.

What I find interesting is that with all I've seen, no one seems like like Jim Michaels.

I'm an older brother myself and since the day one, I felt a connection to Dean Winchester specially since when Sam died the first time. I get that brotherly love, I understand how desperate Dean must have felt when he sold his soul to get Sam back and how hurt he was when Sam said what he said back in S9. I can understand his suck it up the pain attitude, I know how it feels for him to be a semi-father figure to someone when being a child themselves. I also absolutely dig the bond between Dean and Cas because I can get that too, two dudes who love each other in a friendship/brotherly way. With Sam, I just can't connect with him, I can surely say that one of the only Sam lines that really had an emotional effect on me was the "You being here fills the biggest void in my life" line he said to Mary. And it's a combination of both the actor and the script unfortunately.

That's what you said, all I did was to talk about myself and clearing my opinion of any possible judgement based on those issues as unfortunately, many fans are just like that. Does that mean all Women are like that? No....and I never implied so. As for Padaleci (correct spelling right?), There are a "few" instances of him throwing temper tantrums on twitter, incidents like posting pictures of employees of hotels and etc who He for reasons unknown found deserving of being attacked by his army fans only to delete the said tweets like 15 minutes later. How is that none of the above? As for my choice of words, I'm told to be a little bit extreme in that......I give you that.

About that scene with Sam claiming leadership, I have a thought but before that let me make something clear. I'm a straight guy, meaning I'm neither a Fangirl nor a have "Physical" interest in any of the male characters on the show, with that out of the way here's what I think overall about Sam Winchester's leadership speech. After 12 seasons, I can clearly see that Sam Winchester (although I love both the character and the actor) unfortunately has a childish, SJW, know it all smartass attitude to him, continued ignorance of Dean's concerns despite that fact that time of time after time he was proven to be right and the superiority complex that he has that makes him behave like he's the better man which again unfortunately stems from the fact that the actor is a short tempered teenage drama queen based on his social media behavior. So even if they gave him the most excellent of scripts, he just can't pull off such speeches and acting, period. And In the same episode, I, a grown man was silently crying with Dean when he was talking to his mom. Again, I'm not knocking on the character or actor because I like the other one and want him to look better in contrast but simply presenting my observations after 12 seasons. I like the fact that Sam is now a more grown up version of himself, things just it at least now don't seem as genuine as they needs to be.

Well as a Pellegrino and Lucifer fan, I see a lot of reason as to why some people here seem to not like him here. I'd like to present why I do. I think what makes Lucifer great in my opinion is the fact that excuse my language, he doesn't give a @&$&, he has immerse power and is nearly invincible. He may behave like a "Joker" but man, he is terrifying as a villain because of all of above, he doesn't look scary and doesn't sound scary but behavior and action wise, he is a terrifying character, one of the few who the brothers simply can't beat without a heavy sacrifice. What other TV show has a villain as effective and terrifying as that? Him vs the witch and Crowley and Lucifer definitely wins in effectiveness and usefulness as a character. Something that Rowena never really had and Crowley had lacked after season 6 (plus a brief half episode in S8 where he was killing everyone the brothers had saved).

My brother and I were shooting the breeze and talking about how Alternate to SPN's prime universe this Alternate universe is going to be characters wise (we were both fringe fans so we have experience) We we're like, What if God has given the Mark Of Cain to Michael instead of Lucifer "over there" and what if the roles of Michael and Lucifer are some how reversed because of this? Then we thought about remember how Michael and Lucifer were about to possess both brothers before they changed the finale? Which got us to this: And warning, heavy "out there" cheesy totally unrealistic fan fiction here. What if the Good pair of brothers, "Our" Michael and "Their" Lucifer were to possess their perfect vessels Sam and Dean to fight the bad brothers "Our" Lucifer and "Their" Michael to bring back the balance to both worlds? Just having some fun here.

Crowley and Rowena are dead and any resurrection of them by God would make no sense as they are for all inttends and purposes villains. Alternate Crowley and Rowena aren't out of question although since Smith and Pellegrino are to "probably" become prominent characters, It makes sense for them to remove Sheppard and Connell from payroll. Honestly, Crowley was a character that even though I enjoyed, couldn't figure out the purpose for since S6 and Rowena was too cartoonish for my taste so no complaints there for me.

Oh I'm sure we will have Castiel back in one form or another. I'm just not sure which Castiel and in what form.

I don't want to imply that you're wrong and I'm right however, I like to keep an open mind as I've seen Collins drop major info like that before. That said, by the same token, I maybe looking too much into something that's just a joke.... Niether of us can really prove it either way.

I think it may well be both. He could've just intelligently used that "dispute" in this context.

Collins has a habit of conveying important information in a very under the radar and inconspicuous manner. for example I recall in one of his tweets or interviews right before the finale, he said and I'm quoting the writers are going to open a whole new universe of possibilities. Based on his history, I say it's not out of question to assume the sudden use of Cas (or Cas) was a sneaky way for him to say I will either play prime Cas or Alternate Cas when the show returns and he isn't sure which way they will go. He also said something about a transformation that I've been trying to figure out the possibility he's referring to.

He said and I'm quoting "Cas (or Cas) has a future". He used or....not and.

The more I think about it, the entire final moments of the episode were purposefully weird. Cas running towards Lucifer like an idiot. Convenient exist of the boys at the same instance. The shot of Cas hitting Lucifer and failing miserably. A weirdly long wait for Cas to suddenly appear. Cas's confused and unresponsive attitude towards the brothers. Standing there to get stabbed in the back by Lucifer. If it wasn't for the broken wings effect, I would've argued that Lucifer had threw away Prime Cas before reaching him and what we saw was Alternate Cas stabbing Lucifer. The final shots were just purposefully, misty...if that's a word.

Because Paradise on earth is impossible unless either free will is taken away or a Cain style purge is done. So if the child would truly want that, it would lead to a conflict with the boys as neither of them would put up with either option.

Don't forget we're talking about what the baby saw not what he showed Cas. The story with Apocalypse was about guiding destiny towards the desired outcome, not a prediction. -Making sure Sam and Dean are born. -Making sure Lucifer escapes. -Making sure The vessels say yes. Ect. Not a prediction, more like a guideline. a script that was torn in the end. In "The Future" the baby predicted that Castiel would be put in a vulnerable position and this specific course of action would protect and preserve his power and he wasn't wrong, was he?

If memory serves me correctly, the apocalypse was more what they thought was "supposed" to happen than what would actually happen. The baby saw a projection of what would be likely to happen and it did, I can't see why he couldn't do that again.

Guess we'l eventually see if Castiel was merely a tool for Jack or a mentor. Either way, I think he'l be a villain.

Well the baby was shown to be capable of seeing future, who's to say he didn't see Crowley showing up? Remember "The Future"? My hypothesis is merely based on all we've seen from the character so far and from what we've seen, he intelligently manipulated Cas, evaded Dagon and Lucifer and the brothers to survive, If he possessed enough power to defeat his father at that instance, I'm sure he would've killed his father the same way he did Dagon. And he didn't, which strongly suggests he wasn't powerful enough to evade his father, at least at that instance.

Oh I'm not implying that he'l be like his father 100 percent, while a possibility, he can mean well and still cause a conflict. I guess we'l see eventually but personally the idea of a character as powerful as Jack who has shown possessive of the ability to survive both the brothers and Lucifer so far sitting down and letting Sam and Dean teach him what's good and bad is a tad unrealistic to me at least.

The way I saw it was Jack recognizing how gullible and easy to manipulate the Cas character is and using that to his own advantage. The baby doesn't seem like a baby to be imprinted on or mentored, he seems already on top of things.

Well, I'd argue without the tear, the baby would've been captured by Lucifer, considering Jack's actions so far, he seemed fairly on top of thing with the way he handled Dagon, converted Cas and evaded the brothers. It would make so much more sense to assume he made sure his dad wouldn't capture him than assuming it happened by chance. I mean, when has anything happened by chance in this show?

The best case scenario for him is just that, the problem is the assumption that he will listen to anyone really. Think about it, the guy has a measure of future seeing ability, as Fetus devised the unltimate plan to not only ensure his power is saved by effectively manipulating Cas, he ripped a tear in space time devising another plan to get rid of his father by locking him away in that dimension. I find it extremely hard to believe and simple minded on part of the writers to think such creature with such knowledge and planning skill will listen to....practically anyone. So even if he means well (which is still unknown at best and disputable at worst) a conflict will happen regardless as it's very likely for Jack to see the brothers as threats More than mentors. As for the Alternate Universe, that place is beyond saving, it's gone, The only way to ensure peace happens is killing basically everybody.