PMPA

Lebanna, that is exactly what was done though. It was made clear that Damon was replacing Thomas, even over the last week or so since news of his exit came out, which was utterly ridiculous. Absolutely no disrespect to Damon, but there is no one who could or should replace TG or more specifically the iconic character he portrayed. Just as there is no one who could or should replace Reid/Matt, or any of the originals. The constant talk that Rodriguez is a replacement for SM, eh, no way. It would have been off and disrespectful had TG's exit been other than it was, but this, It was yet another rubbing of the salt into the wounds for TG/Hotch fans in what was a super crappy year. We were also fed the line that Paget was not replacing TG, when quite clearly she was in every aspect. She said as much only these last few days while in France. People critisised Hotch fans for complaining about her using the 'wheels up' line. Hotch and TG were and are very important to his fans, just as Reid, Rossi or whoever are very important to their fans. It felt like yet another slap in the face to not only us fans but indeed to TG himself. I feel bad for Damon Gupton, especially now after todays news. Thats utter crap. Totally unnessesary but utterly predictable. He has been treated really shabilly. For Erica Messer to publicly say, it was not her choice to have this character and insinuate that he was sort of thrown on them, was in poor taste. I personally predicted this would not end well for him right after he came onto the show. The fact is, CM and its current band of bosses could not care less about fans, either past or current. For the last few seasons, their focus has been on hitting episode target numbers, and the focus now is hitting 300. They could not care less who is standing on the podium as cast, if they make it that far.

Not sure why shrugs are required. Facts are facts. I did not make anything up. S12 is not yet on Netflix so these figures cannot reflect it. I've seen lots of posts made suggesting CM was in this position or that position or another position, but what was never mentioned was that many of those depended on particular demo's, L3's, L7's etc. I'm sure many enjoyed it, and many are looking forward to the next season. Great. It does not negate the fact that there were and are many who did not and are not. Cannot comment on whether or not its an opinion piece or not, but Harry is certainly crowing about it and has tweeted it, so theres that.

This refers to S1-11 as S12 is not available yet, to the best of my knowledge, so theres that, and I'm not even sure that all those seasons are available outside of the US. I have no doubt that 1-11 are very popular. I see many people disillusioned with past season and not seeing or hearing anything so far to garner up excitement for the coming season, state that they are thankful for past seasons on Netflix. Also, CM does not appear in this list. https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/01/the-75-best-tv-shows-on-netflix-february-2017.html?a=1

"Ridiculousness"...interesting opinion. So in your view, those people, of which there are AlOT, their opinion and feedback is 'ridiculous'?. Nice. I suppose it must suck that a season later and despite the best efforts of so many, the character and actor are still so badly missed, across the fandom. The fandom which exists beyond forums.

I had to laugh at your description of how Morgan was dressed. When I saw him, particularly when he was walking away, I thought, 'jeez, Shemar must have been late to set again, did'nt have time to get into Morgan costume'...I jest, but what I mean is, thats how Shemar Moore dresses, that's very much his style, as per his many many pictures he posts..lol. The one major difference here, is that he kept his shirt on!

Thats an actors job though, and a good actor should be able to get into character, particularly one theyve played for nearly 12 years, without to much drama...pun not nessesarily unintended! I'm not suggesting SM is not a good actor, just that I think he has put Morgan to bed and perhaps had to drag him up for this. Perhaps how he played it was intentional. To show that he was no longer Derek Morgan Federal Agent but Derek Morgan husband and father. But lots of actors who have played a role for a long time have gone back to them and its been seemless. This was good promotion for him though, so I can't see that he had any great objection to it. Incidentially, according to his own Instagragm, his pilot had not actually started filming yet, but was imminent.

I cant say I ever watched CSI much, which is odd because I one time I was about to start a degree in forensics....then again, from friends of mine who work in that field, they will tell you they never ever watch it. I just never got into any other show like I did CM. So they ended CSI with a movie. Interesting. Hotch did 'go rogue' or at least bend things considerably on many occasions, it was just not as obvious as what Prentiss did in this latest episode. My favorite is what he did, although we do not see it, at the end of 'Pleasure is my Business'. I wont say what in case Roamyn has not got to that episode yet :) But that was so satisfying.

You see thats a thing that is often said of the character of Hotch, and actually its not true. (No I'm not saying your wrong what so ever). As you continue to watch you sill see how he evolves. Wait until you see S5, particuarly the first 10/11 episodes. Episode 9 of S5 is widely regarded across the fandoms as one of the best if not the best episodes of CM to date. It was true team, even if Hotch was central to the plot. Oh, Episode 18 in S4 is vital to see as it opens the door of what happens through much of S5. The thing about the character is that you have to think about his position, his role (I'm talking about the character). It was that of the steady hand keeping an often rocked ship afloat, while trying not to break himself even though massive pressure was put on him. Sooner or later though, the shell has to crack and it does. With a character like Hotch, when he breaks, its big. TG played this role to perfection. If you watch Hotch, TG acts the character primarily with his eyes, so much goes on there, its incredible. Subtle but powerful. TG is one of the most underated actors out there, and that is fact. He'll be back on screen or stage before long, I'm confident. He's too good not to be. As for the August incident - I respect your comment. The one thing I would keep in mind is this. Only two people really know what happened, and really only one person knows whether or not what happened was intentional. You should have a read of interviews that TG and the other person give, and see for yourself, that it really is down to interpretation of intent and the only person who can say whether or not any contact was intentional is TG. Again, I'm not going to rake over old coals again, but don't assume that just because he was dismissed, its a straightforward case. There is alot more to this than people realise. For balance, do some research on the other person involved in this, not exactly blameless or lily white. I've been a fan and supporter of TG for many many years, way before CM. I dont know him personally of course, but I do have colleagues who have worked with TG and work in the business, so when I defend and debate the allegations, generally unfounded and nothing more than the latest on the rumour mill spread around, often with nothing but malicious intent, it is not just because I am a fan, there is some background information behind it. I guarantee you, I'm not some naive fangirl blindly following. I also know about film sets. Theyre weird places, not like any other work place. Anyway, the only reason I am saying this is because you said you were knew and you had some queries about why I made some comments. I enjoy discussing the show with everyone, whether I share their opinions or not. No, I dont watch it as I used to and no I most certainly do not enjoy it like I used to, and its a big possibiity that I may not watch it any more in the future. I still am entitled to comment on it and will do. :)

Actually if you read the comments, you'll see that a good lot of them are from people watching the show that are unhappy for some reason or other. So, as NHNW are not watching, then there goes that theory. Its also somewhat convenient to simply blame what is actually a pretty small group. No, I'm not part of that group, but I follow some of what goes on. I do watch the show still, occasionally. I have not looked at comments in recent weeks, but most certainly about 2 episodes into the Reid arc, there was some serious complaints about the show, and these were from long term viewers who were absolutely not teens, tweens or whatever the phrase is now. Alot of them said they would not watch until this arc was over, and it seems alot of them followed through with that. Much of the other comments were on the new additions, in particular Walker. I rarely saw a positive comment on that character. Prentiss as UC is not a popular move either, and its not only or always because of the absense of Hotch. Alot of long time viewers just dont think it works, and its been pretty widely discussed that PB just has not looked comfortable in the role. Erica Messer had a interview some time back in a publication, and it soemthing about Reid's story and the worst yet to come?. I don't think I have ever seen a single article with so many comments. At least 90% were from people watching the show who were very unhappy. The vast majority of those, identified themselves as Reid fans. Its still up there, see for yourself. TV Guide maybe? So again, to simply label them as "disgruntled NHNW" is factually incorrect. I dont get though why people feel that these posters are not entitled to their opinion. Like it or not, alot of people were not happy with the show this season and alot of them were not happy because of the last 9 episodes. And whats wrong with people wishing that Shemar or Hotch were back? Perhaps they, like a lot of people miss the old team. If tptb were smart or cared one cent about its viewers, they would look at those comments and views and take them on board. Instead what was regularly done was that a thread would be deleted. It happened on at least 3 occasions. Also, in fairness, using misspellings of names is a bit off, do you not think. Darn Autocorrect I shout!!

My thinking on the 300 episode was more along the lines of them getting an extended S13. Remember the only need 1 episode, and it has happened with CM before where the initial order of 22 was extended to 24, if I recall correctly. I feel that is the most likely scenario, that they go out on 300. But hey, what do I know. I made this suggestion on another thread and got told off :) To be honest I wondered about that as well. Although I wondered about Garcia. I mean she is sort of on her own in the office now and we have seen previous bad guys able to saunter into the building - The Replicator anyone. I have to say, the security or lack of I should say is shocking!!

I'll expand for you as someone who has watched the show from the first episode in 2005. Mandy Patinkin played Jason Gideon for 2 seasons. The actor is excellent at his craft but is well known for simply walking out on roles. He did just that at the start of S3. Literally all the actors, crew etc were sitting waiting for him at the table for the season opener table read. He just did not turn up. They called hospitals etc assuming he had an accident. No, he just decided he was not coming back. It is a published fact that the networks wanted the show cancelled because they believed that it would sink without him. It is also a published fact by the showrunner at the time Ed Bernero, producers and certain network executives that had it not been for the whole cast and crew led by Thomas Gibson, the show would have gone and a whole lot of people would have lost their jobs there and then. Even though he did that, he was still brought back to film a good bye episode. This was the second show that he and TG had worked together on and he did the very same thing on that as well. Even after MP left CM, he never stopped complaining about how awful the show was and what a terrible decision it was to take the roll. There is no doubt what MP did and yet he still gets the honour of mentions. TG and what may or may not have occured, is completely based on hearsay and what certain people wanted the public to know, yet no one has any problem with his reputation being torn to pieces. It is also published fact that for each season that followed, Thomas Gibson signing was the key to renewal, and when Joe Mantegna came on board, both were requested but the prime mover was TG. This is not fiction. Its there to be found. We can go over and over and over about what happened with TG. 'Allegedly' is just that, because the facts, the real facts dont fit. Although for some, actual facts are not something they want to spend alot of time on, if it does not suit their view. I am in no doubt that the truth will out, no doubt, and alot of public apologies and $$$ will be making its way towards TG. Lets not forget also that the other person involved in this, is also gone. Who is to say that there was not bad blood between him and the crew/cast? Finally, as for so called "bad blood"...yeah, that does not really stand up to much either. I'm sure there are a few who thought it would be great to have him out of the way. For all the others, like the crew that he was recently pictured out with in LA recently, or the crew that regularly converse on social media with, the numerous directors, actors, industry professionals etc who talk about him and too him, maybe they know something we dont! Finally Roamyn, this is a reply to an earlier comment you made to me. Perhaps it was lost in translation, but if you had read my original post properly, you would have seen that I very much did watch the episode. I never once said I did not enjoy it. I'm certainly not concerned about it and yes, I had lots of questions, as did pretty much everyone else who watched it, so I'm not so sure why you seemed to think I was special in that regard. As for your comment about my apparent "harping on..." - unusual choice of words, given that this is a discussion forum and it tends to lend itself to lots of "harping". Whether or not you thought my comment on Hotch was nessesary or not does not matter alot. I did. I see that you are new to the show, so perhaps you are not quite as invested in the characters or a specific character as some of us who have been with it since day 1 are. I see lots of comments on the forum on different threads that I feel is "harping", but you know what?, it bothers me not one bit, because that is what this forum is for. Have a nice weekend everyone.

Well just as you have your opinion I have mine. Both are valid are they not? I simply cannot understand though how anyone can say that there was no need to mention Hotch. Perhaps if Hotch was gone a number of seasons ago or more specifically if his absense/exit was due to any other reason, then yes, no need. That was not the case. Hotchs absense is very much because of the current bad guy, and that is because that is how the writers wrote it. If they did not want people to question these things, then they probably should have come up with a different excuse for his exit. Remember, I am referring to the character, a most significant character. To suggest that Prentiss comment should some how suffice is odd, and odder still that she did not continue then with a reference to Hotch or indeed Morgan to ask about him. Look, its basic continuity and actually would have made a lot of sense. Its pretty obvious to me why the character was not mentioned, and if my thoughts on that are correct, then their reasoning is not cool. I know exactly about Garcia and Morgan. I dont get why her getting the text meant that this scene was so important. In fact the whole, "you never call...etc" as said by Rossi and others made not alot of sense either based on those very relationships we saw built up. Im not entirely sure what you mean by a CM revamp, but I give my view on if there are to be casualites who I would be OK with leaving. I am iffy on Lewis because I dont mind her, but I'd be more than happy to see Alvez, Walker and Prentiss gone. I would never have said Prentiss a few seasons ago, but I went off Prentiss way back a few seasons ago.

Yes that is what I was wondering. Like I said I was in and out of the room at the time. That makes sense then that Reid purposely give the wrong name and Cat did not correct him.

Im not sure what happened here. I was replying to Droogies comment and it somehow attached on to another of Droogies comments...lol But Fashionista you figured what I was getting at. Yes, that to me was odd and interesting but mostly odd. As for the whole access to files thing - honestly, both that and the whole 'bad guy has super duper skills and can cut through all of the security systems of the FBI, CIA', is over done, but more than that, awfully worrying. Jeez, is it really that easy to get through these security systems? How many times has Garcia been hacked at this stage? The other thing is, how much of this stuff would actually be on a personel file? I guess what happened with Maeve might be on it, maybe if something like a psych evaluation was carried out etc, but I did wonder about the reference to Morgans kid. Maybe I missed it, but did Prentiss say that Hank was NOT listed in Morgans files? I cannot see that and it goes against comments made in other episodes throughout the seasons. I also thought that Cat did know about his kid, maybe not his name. I might have missed something as I was in and out of the room while it was on.

Like I said, a stand in is just that. I've done it on occasion. But like I said, if he's an aspiring actor and especially one who has been around the business, then he knows how things work. He's lost that particular job, its more than likely it was not his primary job, just like the other stadium loads of jobbing actors in that crazy town, so I'm not going to feel too devastated for him. Does that sound bitchy? Maybe, but in this business, you grow a skin and you deal with it. Regardless of whether or not TG was still there, there is absoultely NO guarantee that this guy would still be. See I wondered that as well. I fully expected to see Maeve