Xeliou66

Agreed, they never seemed to know what to do with Borgia, but she was annoying. She was very religious and conservative and seemed somewhat preachy and uptight and whiny, she seemed weak and not at all likable. She lacked passion and enthusiasm. Uninteresting. I felt practically nothing when she died. Rubirosa was a great character, even if she was somewhat reminiscent of Kincaid and Ross, she was a unique and strong character in her own right and she became one of my favorites. She had excellent chemistry sun all of the cast and her addition made the second half of season 17 interesting, had Borgia remained, well I would've had some trouble getting through those episodes and I'm almost positive the show would've been canceled.

Season one has lots of great episodes, I saw a couple of my favorites today on WE : The Good Doctor and the Third Horseman. Good Doctor is a great episode despite being very straightforward, it shows a good investigation and a classic cat and mouse game between Goren and the perp. Some classic Goren scenes in that one, with him knocking over the coffee cup and his testimony against the doctor. Eames, Deakins and Carver got a lot as well, and I loved seeing Carver at work in court, another thing that made the episode stand out and something that we rarely saw. Dr Kelmer was a memorable villain as well, smug, controlling, unremorseful, and convinced he would get away scot-free. Very underrated CI but one of my favorites. Third Horseman was a classic as well, it was a very good handling of both a sensitive issue and an investigation. They didn't let the abortion issue overshadow the investigation but they didn't sweep it under the rug either, very good case and I thought all the characters came to life really well, from the victim to the old activist couple to the clinic staff. Arguably the best abortion episode in the L&O franchise.

I didn't find the uncle of the guy that got shot by the Muslim dad to be despicable, and I cheered when be broke into the shore and smashed it up with the bat, I was wishing he had used the bat on the dad and brother. Other bad parents would be Both the dad and grandpa in Homo Homini Lupus, the dad for denying his family had been kidnapped and hindering the investigation and his dad for being a bully who treated his son like crap. The dad in Bedfellows who only loved one of his 2 sons, what a dick. The mom in Wrongful Life, what a huge bitch. I hope the daughter got away from her. The bizarre psychiatrist parents in Shrink Wrapped, they were so egocentric and manipulative they forgot they had a daughter.

Yeah I agree they were probably different, but in the case of Granick and Kressler they have basically the same personality and defend the same type of clients, it seems that they were the same. It was so stupid of the SVU writers not to use the name Granick when they casted Ned Eisenberg as a defense lawyer.

That was one of Mike Logan's best CI episodes. It's been a while since I've seen it but I remember Logan being passionate and pissed off, one of his best episodes on CI, all too often it seemed as though Logan was relegated to the B case and story while Goren and Eames were the real stars, especially in the Warren Leight years when there was a lot of soapy drivel anyway.

Absolutely, he was an awful parent. I hope he got a long prison sentence and him and his son were both disgusting religious freaks. Unfortunately stuff like that is very common in Middle Eastern countries with all Muslim populations, and more needs to be done about "honor killings" by Muslims. Unfortunately that episode was cause a ton of controversy if aired today because SJW's who love fundamentalist Islam ( even though they claim to be pro women ) would have a meltdown on social media if a show portrayed honor killings by Muslims.

Fin deserves more, especially last week, he should've been the one to talk to and connect with the Army Ranger not Olivia, but Mariska's ego is so huge she cannot share the spotlight one time with anyone, and instead has to have an episode filled with cliched PSA like dialogue that felt like a promotion for her own foundation. A lot of fans have complained about MH/Benson and how she dominates the show and turns it into a PSA, but the writers only listen to the die hard Olivia fangirls who worship MH and want more and more Olivia. It has hurt the show badly for about 2 years now.

So I'm up late tonight and watching on TNT, I love their all night L&O marathons. Just saw season 13's Shangra La, about the girl who posed as a 16 year for a decade and fooled everyone and murdered the teacher when she found out, very good episode. Very good case and lots of good one liners from Lennie and Branch, and it had a lot of the best recurring characters, Skoda, Rodgers, Brody, and Jessica Sheets, one of the best and most underrated L&O defense lawyers. Now they are showing Fontana episodes, right now it's the one about the Bill O'Reilly like right wing mouthpiece who got shot and the loon woman got manipulated by the wife to do it. Pretty good episode, Fontana is always fascinating and while not always likable, he was entertaining and a good replacement for Lennie as he brought his own unique style to the show and didn't try to be Lennie 2.0.

Priscilla Van Acker was an awful mother and total control freak, her husband was a piece of shit as well. Other completely awful parents include : The Christian nut job from Family Values, what an absolute freak with no bearing on reality. He deserved the death penalty The dad from Death Roe, I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned him. The fat piece of shit molested his daughter for years and then killed his son in law in a gruesome way and killed the innocent food critic. Hope he got the needle as well. The dad from Phantom was an evil manipulator. The dad from Cherry Red who treated his son like garbage but then killed a woman to prevent his son's crimes from being found out so he could continue to freeload off his son. Both the parents from Magnificat, especially control freak dad. The mom from Happy Family, what a totally evil bitch. The dad from Pravda, surprised no one has mentioned him. What a disgusting self righteous murdering piece of trash.

I agree, Rubirosa was much more attractive. Beauty Queen had no talent or personality and was only there for her looks. But I have to disagree about her using her sex appeal against the Muslim guy. Unlike hardcore SJW's, I don't feel any sympathy for terrorists who commit mass murder or chop people's heads off because something offends them, and I don't give a fuck about their feelings.

Great ideas here, I wish we could have multiple shows almost with these characters the way Dick Wolf's Chicago shows have a ton of crossovers with different shows and departments. I wish we could have an SVU squad with Fin in charge and without Benson and have a DA's show with Barba and also O'Dwyer who I hope to see again on SVU and bring back Jack McCoy as DA and Munch as an investigator.

Oh absolutely, black people get punished a lot harsher than white people usually, not always though with athletes, look at what happened with Jameis Winston, he got away with a rape because he was a star. Athletics is a big money business on every level, and superstar athletes are part of the social elite that controls most of the justice system, that's why it is easier for them to get away with violent crimes.

Detective Beauty Queen was the worst actor ever to appear on L&O, she had no talent and never would've gotten any job if it wasn't for her looks. Rubirosa joining did help in season 17 because Borgia sucked and had no acting talent either and her and Beauty Queen at the same time would've probably gotten the show canceled.

The poster is absolutely right about how star athletes get away with a ton of crimes because they are athletes. The Brock Turner case and the Idaho case are great examples of how star athletes are treated differently, the same goes for members of fraternities. There is a different law for those groups of people because of the extreme influence they have because of money. So the dad was fairly accurate about how it is easy to get away with stuff as a star athlete.

Yeah they certainly didn't do a good job with her, she was a terrible actress and had no chemistry with anyone, between her and some really subpar episodes writing wise, episodes such as Release, Melting Pot and Talking Points were really poorly written and cliched compared to most L&O episodes, season 17 nearly spelled the end of the show. Fortunately they got rid of Beauty Queen cop and got new writers and the show improved in season 18

PC is preachy, being politically correct is usually not good, it's usually different than being polite and treating people with basic decency. Like I say, the Benson fangirls who worship Mariska got the SJW's into SVU, and that's why it has much more preachiness than other crime procedurals, for example SVU's 9:00 competitors Major Crimes and Criminal Minds. I don't like preachy episodes either. I don't mind doing some episodes that might have a political slant that would piss off some people, usually those on right wing websites, by doing stuff about social issues such as abortion or LGBT rights or stem cell research, and I don't mind SVU doing episodes that involve "rape culture" on college campuses because it is a problem, mainly with frats, the season 14 episode Girl Dishonored was a great episode and a great example of an SVU episode that dealt with rape on college campuses without being ridiculous or over the top with preachiness or PSA messages. But now with Mariska in charge and her super fangirls being the only ones the writers seem to listen to, we get a ton of very preachy, after school special like episodes with a ton of overacting from Mariska.

Like the other poster said, the military and the police are 2 totally separate organizations and their rankings have no correlation. Members of the military frequently use "Sir" and "Ma'am" when addressing non military members. I did like seeing Captain Williams call out Benson on addressing her by her first name like that, it's unprofessional and its treating the victims like babies, Olivia does it frequently and I was glad to see her called on it. I love might kazoo's storyline idea, but it would never happen because Mariska has a huge influence over the show and she has to be portrayed as doing no wrong and being the saintly heroine, and woman will always be the victims of evil men because that's what the loud mouthed Tumblr SJW's say and apparently that's the only group the writers listen to. I agree wholeheartedly about the ultra PC rape culture PSA tone. I think that it started around the time the SJW bullies rose up a few years ago, they were attracted to the show because of Mariska's real life feminism and advocacy for rape victims, and they started having meltdowns on social media about non PC jokes and comments and so the show became very preachy and Mariska stopped acting and started playing herself. I think that MH in real life is extremely similar to Benson now. I think that Mariska is the reason why the SJW thought police have been drawn to SVU but not other crime shows and that's why SVU has more preachiness. I really like what skittl said about Hysteria, that was a good example of what the show should be like, there shouldn't have to be preachy moments where Benson convinces the victim to stand up for herself and then nods dramatically as they make a PSA like announcement. The lines shouldn't read like a PC manual, people don't talk like that. I prefer episodes involving SVU solving crimes, not delivering a PSA announcement. There have been plenty of great episodes with living victims, and they don't have to involve dramatic scenes with PSA like dialogue and Benson making Horatio Caine-esq promises to them.

Yeah I said they had different names but I always wonder if the writers meant it to be the same judge. The same way I wonder about whether the defensive attorney played by Ned Eisenberg on L&O and on SVU were the same character, even though on L&O he was called Granick and on SVU he was named Kressler. Could go either way.

Yeah the PC crap has gotten outrageous, I hate how a moron group of social media fangirls who act as thought police has taken over the show and is trying to make it more and more PC and dictate what is said, what Benson has become is such a joke, she's so over the top and preachy now. It's really stupid how these fangirls will dismiss earlier episodes just because of the use of a term that is now considered derogatory. Good points people make about how some of the Neal Bear episodes are fun to rewatch just because they are so absurd, it was like they were written by someone on an acid trip but they can be funny they are so over the top. The current bad episodes are just painful to watch they are so full of sanctimonious drivel. I would like to see a spinoff with Barba and Buchanan as well.

The best jaw dropping moment was the end of Prince of Darkness "She doesn't have an uncle". The look of horror on Schiff's face was quite memorable. The moments mentioned in Life Choice were jaw droppers as well. Several times I've been shocked at stupid comments made by main characters that I usually like : for example, McCoy apparently feeling sympathy for the nurse who performed sterilizations on unknowing black women ( what the fuck was up with him?), Bernard's idiotic, appalling comment about abortions in cases of rape in Dignity ( I wanted Lupo to punch him ) of course Serena apparently being sympathetic to the parents who pimped out their son to be molested, Serena was frequently overly sympathetic for a prosecutor but that was the worst example, also Nora's defense of the dad who killed the insurance company guy in Undercovered, she was such a soft DA. Nora and Serena on at the same time was hard to watch, 2 very soft bleeding heart pushovers that were sometimes too sympathetic to defendants to be good DA's on at the same time made the second half of season 12 episodes challenging to get through at times.

My favorites would be : Judge Schreiber, who seemed very fair and unbiased, Judge Bradley, another very good judge that probably appeared more than of them between L&O and SVU, and Judge Pongracic. Also I liked judges Callahan, Karan and Harrison Taylor they were always good in their appearances. One thing I always found funny was that they had 2 separate judges named Rebecca Stein and Rebecca Steinman, both of them were good judges. Worst judges would be Nathan Marks from ID, William Wright, who had an extreme bias against McCoy for some unknown reason, and Edgar Hynes from Jeopardy who threw a case. It's interesting as I've never connected the fact that the same actor played Hynes and the judge in Indifference but they had different names. I wonder if they were the same judge.

I agree, the writers seem to be only listening to Mariska and her devoted fans, because they act like that the show is Benson only, just look at their social media posts, it's all Benson and MH. I think that SVU and the L&O franchise are so popular and have been around for so long that they just aren't putting in much effort now. SVU is still popular but I think NBC wants it to fail because there is a war on procedurals by the big networks and the thought of the Trump episode ever airing scares the hell out of NBC, and the current writers are just clueless and have no idea what to do or how to run the show it seems. They think that all SVU fans worship the ground Mariska walks on and cares more about Benson than anyone else, they seem oblivious that SVU has always been an ensemble drama and that fans want more of Barba, Fin and Carisi. And you are absolutely right that the show panders to a specific crowd with their endless rape culture preaching episodes, and I think that they do this because it's what Mariska wants. There is a very vocal group of fangirls that worship Mariska/Olivia and want the show to be a female empowerment message instead of a crime show, and these fangirls tend to be young females from big cities in their 20's with some hispter/SJW leanings that live pretty comfortably. And this is why we get so many cases where the victim is similar to the fangirls and the perp is some super rich, famous billionaire and it's a he said/she said case with only Olivia taking on the perp. I think they do this because they are pandering to these fangirls by doing episodes where someone very similar to them gets raped by a rich famous guy and the Olivia stands up for the victim and gets justice. The fangirls can relate closely to the victims almost every week which makes them worship Olivia more and more, that's who the writers are pandering to, by putting in all the preachy Benson comments and lectures and having all the he said/she said rape cases where no one believes the victim but Benson, and why they seem to deal so much with rich and upper class people now. It's very weird how this one vocal group of fans has so much influence over SVU

Lots of good points being made here. I like the Warren Leight years better than the Neal Bear years as well, because the Leight years were much more realistic and straightforward while in the Bear years the show just piled on outrageous twist after twist to the point of the show being a parody. Warren brought the show back to what it was in its best years and seasons 13 and 14 had some great episodes and were almost as good as the shows golden years in seasons 2-7. Season 15 was when it got weaken, Munch and Cragen left and they were 2 of my favorites and most people liked them as well, and they never let personal biases or agenda's get in the way of cases and they weren't afraid to play devil's advocate and argue an unpopular opinion. Without them and with Benson in charge, Benson started dominating the screen time and jumping other characters who disagreed with her and her "the woman never lies" view. Also giving Benson a kid was stupid, and I don't give a fuck about her constant circle of law enforcement boyfriends. Her personal crap got too much screen time. And it's pretty clear that Mariska has jumped at the chance to push PSA messages in episodes and to portray Olivia as an all knowing saint who is the only one who can stand up for women and bring rapists to justice. It is very irritating how everything has to be about Olivia and how MH acts like she's in a soap opera with overdramatic expressions when something goes wrong and then she has to save the day. The current writers seem to be in disarray and don't know what to do and are just letting MH call the shots

Season 20 was the best season L&O had in several years. It was interesting seeing Jack as DA and how he had to balance the interests of his office and politics with getting justice. He gained an appreciation for what Schiff, Lewin and Branch had done. I remember he said one time, "now I know why Adam Schiff was so grumpy". It's a shame NBC canceled such a great show. L&O was great in almost every year of its run IMO, season 17 being by far the weakest link with the awful beauty queen cop but almost all L&O episodes are re watchable.

Absolutely right, I'm so sick of cliched scenes where the victim tells their story and MH nods along with an overdramatic facial expression. Like I say, MH is reminding me more and more of David Caruso and how he portrayed Horatio on CSI Miami : overly dramatic facial expressions, solemn promises to victims to get justice, condescending, preachy tone, dominating screen time at the expense of all other characters, and basically being portrayed as a superhero that is never wrong. The same can be said for Benson. The difference is, CSI Miami and the CSI franchise in general was always about style over substance and never very realistic, so it was just a part of the show and Caruso's overacting felt like a trademark. SVU has always told strong and realistic stories, and so Benson/MH's overdramatic posing and statements are very cringeworthy and out of place. This wasn't the worst episode ever, not even the worst of the season IMO, that would go Imposter, where Benson bullied Barba into prosecuting a case that clearly wasn't a rape to advance her agenda, or maybe even the one with Rollins' sister where they gave the stupid and offensive bipolar explanation to excuse her sociology sister killing people. Overall the worst episode of SVU would be one from the final Stabler years, one of the ones that felt like a parody of SVU than SVU, candidates include Bombshell, Wildlife, Branded, Wet, Lunacy. However those episodes at least were funny in how excessively stupid they were written, something this one and the other recent sanctimonious Benson episodes haven't been. You are absolutely right about how the heads have such a blind spot about the fans true feelings about MH/Olivia. They act like that all fans worship her and view her as their hero and want her to be front and center nonstop when there are just as many fans who think this is SVU not the fucking Saint Olivia Benson hour and want a more ensemble drama like it used to be and Barba, Fin and Carisi have lots of fans as well who would like more of them (no one cares about Rollins IMO, the majority of fans dislike her). There are just as many fans who want less MH/Benson as there are fans who worship at the alter of MH.