Pam Poovey

Even Donna Reed studied and had a job - she was a trained nurse and sometimes worked even after being a mother and housewife; she didn't go straight from high school to pot roasts. The Donna Reed Show was actually more realistic than GG, despite being seen as a 1950s fantasy! That was the bizarre thing about the Lindsey situation: it didn't even fit with the 1950s. It really did feel that the writers manipulated the situation into something so contrived that we could see that the Dean-Lindsey marriage was doomed from the start, so Rory having an affair with Dean wasn't something that ended the marriage so much as hastened its demise (and left them conveniently child-free at the end). If Lindsey had been studying part-time or even hoping to become a mother as soon as possible it would have made Rory and Dean's actions far more damaging.

Just like the very first episode, when Lorelai didn't know her own daughter was still only 15 in September 2000! Some things never change, and an example of the trope Writers Can't Do Maths. It's one that always drives me bananas.

I just hated the whole "full circle", finding the idea that nobody ever does things differently from their parents to be not only lazy writing, but a poisonous idea. It suggests that there's no point trying in the GG universe as you are Calvinistically predestined to repeat your parents' actions. The idea is ludicrous anyway. In real life I hardly know anyone who has literally done exactly what their parents did, and when they did, it was a conscious choice taken because their parents' lifestyle appealed to them. If nobody ever did differently from their parents, humans would still be living in trees eating fruit and nuts.

The awful thing is that Rory herself thinks he's not good enough for her, and the reason for that is not obvious - Paul is a nice, smart, caring, tolerant, fairly attractive guy and apparently that makes him a hilarious target for abuse by the writers. It immediately gave the impression that Revival!Rory had become a massive bitch and turned me off the story within the first 15 minutes or so. Then they dragged this lame "joke" out for the rest of the season. At the beginning it seems that Rory is adored by her mother, her grandparents, her best friend, her boyfriend, and family friends, which seems normal enough for a nice, pretty, studious teen. But gradually it turned out she was practically worshipped by the entire town and was allowed to get away with some pretty awful behaviour (such as cheating on a married man). And it wasn't even possible for her to have a male friend as she was so desirable that any guy she got close to seemed to fall in love with her. That's when the show just went too far and turned viewers off Rory.

I remember learning somewhere that marrying a third cousin is no different genetically from marrying a stranger (which is a bit of a take that to genealogists). So Charles and Trix were a little closer than strangers but really nothing to get worked up about, Lorelai! And even if they'd been first cousins it wouldn't have been that odd - most marriages in history have been between cousins, and it's still common now. It doesn't really tally with Lorelai describing a distant relative Claudia (is she her third cousin?) as "nothing" to her, family-wise to then get freaked out about second cousins marrying.

And here I was thinking I was the only one who hated Kirk's guts. Also, this might be headcanon, but I'm pretty sure all those jobs that Kirk had for just one day or one week were ones that he didn't legitimately apply for and was hired. I think he just turned up and started working as if he was meant to be there and knows all about delivering flowers or swans or installing DSL, and brushed off any questions from co-workers. There's just enough known examples of that happening in the show to make it entirely plausible. Which makes him a town nuisance and a fraudster.

Yet characters drive to Manhattan for a night on the town as if it's about twice as long as the drive to Hartford - when Google Maps says it would take almost three hours without any traffic! That makes those New York trips seem like really long nights, not just to get there but to drive home again afterwards. At least Babette and Morey stayed overnight when he had to work at a jazz club in Greenwich Village. (I live about three hours drive from a major city, and would NEVER drive there for a concert/hen's night etc and then drive home the same night).

That's what I kept thinking the whole way through the revival. It should have been set in the past, and the actors would have had to play their characters as three or four years younger, and Richard would die earlier. There was always a conceit that GG was set in the current year, and it seems the creators could not see it happening any other way, that it would lose its "now-ness". It really felt that they had hung on to their main plot points too long and their ideas had gathered dust. Despite its contemporary setting, it felt dated and at times even creaky.

THIS! Yes, the main thing lacking was some kind of reason for Lorelai's malaise and Rory's failure. After watching the revival, I still have no idea what was wrong with either of them: Lorelai looks spoiled and selfish, and Rory looks spoiled and lazy. And I'm left wondering if their issues were really "fixed" with marriage/new Dragonfly (more of what she already had) and writing a book/getting pregnant (a real come down from all the things she tried for, and hoped to achieve). It would have been great if everything had been tied in with Richard's death, giving all three characters not only a clear arc of healing and recovery, but also some much-needed sympathy. It would have also honoured Richard as the patriarch of the family that all three "Gilmore girls" had come to depend on in some way, so that removing him from the picture brought on a crisis. Maybe this was too much in opposition to some vague feminist sympathies that the show may have had once - but it could have been a good story if handled sensitively. And yes - surely replacing the car would have been a major symbol of Lorelai moving on? And it was really old, so how long could she feasibly keep it for anyway? But perhaps it was yet another symbol of Lorelai's need to stay in the one place and have more of the same.

I think perhaps you are looking for the General Hospital forum?

I was watching Red Light on the Wedding Night, and the show does give a birth date for Rory. Dean says their "old" anniversary was the 24th of the month, the day after Rory's birthday, so she was born on the 23rd of October. Of course this does not fit, because in 2000 the 23rd of October was a Monday, not a Friday (it was the 27th which was a Friday that week). So you can put this down as both canon, and a nitpick.

I'm rewriting the entire show in diary form, but changing all the silly parts that didn't make sense, were later contradicted, or didn't go anywhere. And it's set in the present (because the show was always in the current year), so everything has to be updated, including people's names and the pop culture references. And I'm writing it in real time, so it will take me seven years (I started last September). I don't think this actually proves I'm a devotee so much as a nutcase.

Brilliant! And not unbelievable, because pretty well anyone can get their own cooking show these days. Although last night I was amusing myself by imagining that Rory announces she's going to write a book, and it turns out almost everyone in SH is a published author or is in the process of writing a book. Sookie has a best-selling cook book, Taylor has written a volume on the history of Stars Hollow, Miss Patty has a fascinating memoir based on her one-woman stage show, and Lane writes a series of books on music criticism called Why Rolling Stone Got it Wrong. Lorelai is writing an anti-Wild book based on her aborted yet cathartic trip to the Pacific Coast Trail, and even Kirk is hard at work on A Book by Kirk. Gypsy is the author of the popular handbook, The Everywoman's Guide to Home Mechanics, of which she tells everyone, "That book just got me a new kitchen!". Everyone in the Thirty-Something Gang is already published (their parents paid for the vanity publishing), and all are working on new material. Gradually it dawns on Rory that any idiot can write a book and even get it published, and she's just joined all the other SH eccentrics in their favourite pastime. Babette, author of a series of books on dealing with pet grief, tells her she finally managed to catch up to them all.

I guess you can only have one author per TV show. And Rory's "success" at writing three chapters would look pretty paltry next to Sookie being on a busy book tour/chat show circuit. If not a book tour (so as not to make Rory look even more useless in comparison), why not her own line of gourmet cookies or something? She was a gifted cook, loved baking, and I could see something like that starting small as a specialty of the Dragonfly Inn, then taking off as word gets out from travel and food writers. Before you know it, she's spending weeks at a time overseeing production and having to create secret recipes in seclusion - or whatever you do when you have your own line of baked goods and are a complete control freak over the entire process.

Both screechingly funny lines (when did Chris ever see Rory being forceful? Forcefully having her arm broken and being put to bed by mommy? Forcefully reading the dictionary he bought her?). I was drinking a cup of tea during Charleston's friendly chat, and nearly spit it out laughing. Maybe Chris and the headmaster should have watched a few episodes of Gilmore Girls to remind them what actually happened before they spoke ...

Agree with almost every point everyone has made! I can't quote or else the whole thing would be quotes and requotes and answers to quotes. In addition: * the revival should have tallied better with the OS. For example (and sorry to keep labouring this point), if Season 1 said Stars Hollow was already off the septic system, it shouldn't be back on it 16 years later! If everyone could talk fine by mobile phone in SH in 2000, there's no reason why it should suddenly be an issue in 2016. That's just stupid. * the revival should have have had the same "feel" as the OS - yes a little quirky, but still recognisable as the real world with real life emotion and drama. The revival didn't look or feel like the OS, but like a series of cartoony sketches of what GG was like. Somehow SH went from an eccentric little Connecticut town loosely based on real Connecticut towns and villages to a complete fantasy land that was clearly as imaginary and artificial as Oz. The LBD sequence finally pushed the point home that all connection with what's possible in the actual world had been severed completely. * the sparkle and comedy of dialogue should have felt organic and character-driven: too much of the time it felt as if someone had written in the script: Now insert two minutes of witty banter with at least a dozen pop culture references for no clear reason. * Rory's career woes should have been more realistic, and been solved/resolved with something better, more original, and less groan-worthy than writing a book about her life with her mother, because nothing could be more interesting than herself. (Hopefully she won't fall asleep while interviewing herself for the book). She wasted most of a year not doing any proper work, and still didn't have anything even vaguely resembling a real job or viable career path by the end. Unless you consider getting knocked up by an ex-boyfriend engaged to someone else and three chapters of an unwritten book a viable career path. * Stop making Rory and Lorelai just plain disgusting and foul! Yes, they were always flawed characters but somehow they became monstrous caricatures of themselves. It was impossible to want to cheer them on in any way. By the end, I was hoping the last four words would be "I"m dying". "Me too". * Stop making Luke mentally handicapped! He went from savvy and practical to complete idiot who got pushed around by everyone. Did he have a head injury off screen? Was Lorelai keeping him drugged so he would obey her better? * Just make it a proper Season 8 with 40 minute episodes that told one little part of a story that gradually built into a story arc. I hated the four 90-minute movies idea: it didn't work, and led to a lot of pointless self-indulgent filler. * If determined to stick with the four movie idea - make them better! And if based on four seasons, be much crisper with the timing. Lorelai's three days on the west coast somehow took up most of Fall, and didn't fit with the date of the wedding which was apparently all planned in 4 days. Seriously get a flipping calendar and make sure your timeline is even vaguely plausible if you are going to set it around Winter to Fall in one year. * Sorry if this offends anyone but don't let anyone with Palladino as part of their name anywhere near the script or production! Do not let them make decisions in regard to casting. I'm convinced the pair of them actively hate their own show and despise their fans by this stage, and either consciously or subconsciously sabotaged it for some warped and twisted reason of their own. (Apologies for frothing at the mouth ranting which may have led to some incoherence!!!)

I saw the links to the transcripts on one website, but when I clicked on them it said they had had to be removed for legal reasons. I was disappointed I didn't get there before the removal to save them to file. http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewforum.php?f=794 It's apparently at the request of Netflix.

It suggested to me that Rory didn't even think she needed to think up or promote her own story ideas. She seemed to believe that she came in to the website offices just to sign paperwork, and that at a later date she would begin work and be given a desk and assignments to complete. She was acting as if she still worked for the Yale Daily News or the Franklin, where the editor would hand her the assignments and it was her task to write them up and then talk it through with the editor.

Yes - sorry I meant that it was shown on TV here just after the revival (as part of the Christmas programming), not that it was first released after the revival. It's a Lifetime tele-movie, of the sort that Lorelai and therefore ASP might watch. Which again piqued my interest.

I was watching old episodes of Third Rock from the Sun on Netflix and saw Lauren Graham in a small role as a flirtatious, breathy-voiced, professor-attracting young college student with a penchant for motorcycle-riding bad boys. I kept thinking that this was Lorelai if she had got to Harvard! When they were showing Christmas movies in December I saw one called Love at the Christmas Table with Scott Patterson as the crusty old widowed father - it was basically just a toned down performance of Luke. The thing I most noticed is that at one point the young male love interest says scornfully that the heroine is "living in a snow globe town"; as this was just after the Netflix revival of GG it was very striking. Did ASP watch this movie while writing "Winter"?

It's hilarious that Lorelai ached to kick Jess (or throw a cream pie at him) for demonstrating the same insufferably snarky, rude, and thinking he's too smart for words behaviour that you know Lorelai did ...

I'm not a Lorelai hater, but IMO she was at her most dislike-able when she was dealing with Rory's school-age boyfriends. She got involved with Dean in a way which bordered on creepy, asking him on his first date with Rory along with her mother, pining because she didn't get to hear every detail of their first kiss, stalking Dean while he was at work, giving Dean advice on how to win her daughter over when she is clearly more interested in another boy, telling him that THEY didn't have to break up just because he and Rory had, and so on. (That Dean accepted this level of interference in his love life from his girlfriend's mother is quite incredible - I'm sure Rory wouldn't have tolerated any of this from Dean's father!). With Jess, Lorelai acted like a romantic rival, fighting to get her own share of Rory's affection and attention, to the point where she is viciously and childishly pleased to have unfairly run Jess out of town.

I'm guessing there would have been parents who didn't want their children hanging out with teenage Lorelai either, both pre and post pregnancy. You would think she might muster up some sympathy for a bad-but-not-really-bad smart-mouth teen with family troubles and a "I'm too cool and nobody understands me" attitude. Perhaps Jess reminded Lorelai too much of herself, and not in a good way.

It would leave a bad taste in my mouth, but pretty much everything in the revival did so I guess I'm already in revolt (revolting?). As you say, you begin to question everything. Was Paris really that insane, or was that Rory trying to cast some shade on her high-achieving academic rival? Did she try to make Logan more sympathetic than he really was, since he is (probably) her child's father, and a possible source of its financial support? Did Jess really get it together so well in later life, or is she painting her editor in flattering colours? Was Stars Hollow even that charming and quirky, or was that to provide some much-needed comic relief? *lying down after rifling through Paris' medicine cabinet for something soothing*

Yes I couldn't follow that at all. I know the story of the revival is meant to finish in early November 2016 (ASP even says they wanted the story wrapped up before the date of the US election), but Rory is already 32 in the spring/summer, and the date of the wedding fits with 2017 not 2016. It made me feel that it was set slightly in the future, or added to my sense it was in some alternative GG universe. Nearly all TV shows are very vague and inconsistent with dates and birthdays etc (especially comedies), but GG seemed to be trying to give itself a proper timeline where Rory's birthday was always in October, and Thanksgiving was followed by Christmas, and there were constant reminders of which season we were in, and everyone got a year older in each series. I think that's why it's so noticeable when things don't add up.