Snowblack

Wow. I didn't expect the entire plot to kill Joffrey to be laid out in a neat little package for us. It was awfully Bond Villain-ish of Little Finger to explain everything to Sansa. He's far too smart for that, so I liked it and didn't like it at the same time. What I loved was Sansa! She's finally found her voice and shown that she's not the stupid little dove everyone presumed her to be. Also, I didn't think Little Finger and Lady Arryn were actually betrothed. How in the world did he manage that? I wondered about this before, and assumed that she had some measure of autonomy after her husband's death. I can't imagine why she would agree to marry a nothing lordling like Little Finger. I always loved Cersei, but she's beginning to bug. And I didn't care for Margaery this episode either. I don't know why, but her scene with Tommen was really unconvincing to me. I like what she's doing though. Very clever, those Tyrells. Jaime and Brienne...that last scene and Jaime's face when she named the sword Oathkeeper was just amazing. I love Pallas' comparison between Jorah and Jaime. Exactly right. Except in this case, the love, admiration and respect goes both ways. Before the season started, I assumed Brienne would help Jaime retrain to fight with his off-hand, and that their incredible bond would deepen. This is nearly as satisfying. And it's good to know that Brienne is beyond Cersei's reach. What doesn't make sense is how riding off into the countryside is going to help Brienne find Sansa. It strikes me as a strange way to begin with her search. The horse at the end bothered me. A case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. First its face has skin, including ears. Then it's a skull with some connective tissue and no ears. Then we're back to skin and ears. I know it doesn't matter, but it destroyed the continuity. I had wondered exactly what the White Walkers were doing with those baby boys. It looks like there's a lot more to this story than expected. At first, I thought the White Walker was heading to that big tree that Bran saw in his dream, and I'm was relieved that it wasn't. We really are set up for some Stark reunions this season. Sansa/Arya and Bran/Jon would be too much to hope for, wouldn't it? It's hard for me to find the north of the Wall stuff interesting, but it seems like they're setting up quite a battle at Craster's. I'm confused about what Ghost was doing there. Wasn't he following Sam and Gilly when we last saw him? I did a double take too. Anders' cat in Dragon Age! Awesome!

Run, Tyrion, run!!! That's all I can think of...he needs to get smuggled out of King's Landing. Maybe by Podrick and Jaime? We know Varys won't help him, for the same reasons he woudln't help Ned. And Tyrion is no better off than Ned in those last episodes as he sat injured and chained awaiting his fate. Why, oh why didn't he just leave with Shae? Now he has nowhere to go and no source of funds. The next episode is about to start, and all I want is for Tyrion to get away somehow. Oh, and I was thinking that Joffrey's murder was definitely Little Finger and Tywin. Why else would Tywin basically hand Little Finger the Vale, and then send him off so that he would be above suspicion when the deed is done? I've thought it through, and it's the only combination of conspirators that makes sense.

One of my favorite Joffrey moments was his giddyness at the announcement of Robb Stark's death. He was like a kid on Christmas morning. And I'm gonna miss that kid. He was flawlessly dispicable. It will not be easy to fill his place on the list of characters who need to die.

Okay, so I don't like that Tywin is in on this "get Sansa" and "get Tyrion" thing. He's not that stupid. That just makes me think even more that he is involved. In Tommen he finally has the child he always hoped Jaime would be. This can't go well for Tommen. Unless someone kills Tywin soon! (Pretty please?) Tommen is like a Ned Stark. He needs guidance to survive, but Tywin's guidance? Please no. The Little Finger scene is great. The ghost ships in the harbor are so well done. I wonder if Sansa catches on that if Little Finger knows that Joffrey is dead, that means he was involved. It's hard to say just how savvy she is. She's certainly more cunning than she used to be, but it's hard to say whether she has changed that much. I guess this explains why we didn't see Little Finger courting crazy Auny Lysa yet. And the prospect of Arya and Sansa both heading for the Aerie is wonderful. I guess a reunion is too much to hope for. Margaery's conversation with her grandmother convinces me she wasn't involved. She gains nothing by Joffrey's death. And it reinforces Olenna's motive. She doesn't care about Margaery being the queen, and she understands completely how twisted Joffrey was and what a foolish union it was. No other Tyrells have a motive, but Olenna certainly does...the well-being of those she loves. The scene between Cersei and Jaime is fascinating. Our son...the acknowledgement. Cersei is as deluded and manupulative as ever, but seems to be legitimately grieving. Jaime seemed so sensible. Until his libido took over and he raped his sister next to their son's corpse. When he says she's a hateful woman, it's like he finally sees what she is. It's almost as though he decided he doesn't respect her anymore and so it's okay to take what he wants. It's a disappointing ending to the scene. But I guess we wouldn't want total redemption for Jaime, would we? As always, the Hound and Arya are so perfect together. The Hound can't act. He can't be anything but what he is. He has none of Arya's capability for deception. Olenna is quite the man hater. Truly. Does she have any use for anyone male? It was amusing at first, but now it's starting to grate. Does she dislike Loras as much as all the other men in her family? Sam and Gilly...boring. Gilly doesn't belong at Castle Black, but is there a more demoralizing place anywhere than Mole's Town? Truly awful. Sam leaving Gilly there is unforgivable. Stannis is getting on my nerves. What exactly is it he expects from Davos? Magic leeches? The veiled threats and the attitude make me wonder why anyone would follow Stannis. But the idea he has about the Iron Bank is interesting. Olenna and Tyrion have both discussed the dangers of the kingdom's debt to the Iron Bank. My guess is that Davos is going to ask the Iron Bank to pay for mercenaries to help Stannis take the Iron Throne in return for payment of the kingdom's debts. Where the money to pay the debts would come from is an interesting question, but I guess it's the business of politicians to make promises they can't keep. And that's what Davos is now. The scene with Tywin and Oberyn is fascinating. First of all, I don't believe for a second that Tywin didn't consent to the Mountain killing Oberyn's sister. But he lies and is willing to hand over the Mountain in order to make peace. I'm curious whether Oberyn will actually agree to Tywin's proposal. This could go so many ways! And I hope it ends with Oberyn killing Tywin. And I wonder whether Tywin's offer is sincere. Is it some sort of trap? I guess he's too pragmatic for that. Making peace with the Dornish is a good move. And I don't understand what Tywin meant about Dorne withstanding the dragons either. Interesting... Interesting that Oberyn is a "poisoner." My impression was that he was someone who would rather kill someone while looking into their eyes...in battle. He also struck me as a fair man. If he does sit on the judge's panel for Tyrion, it'll be a good thing. He won't be swayed by Tywin.I love the harpy statues at Myreen's gates. What a wonderful bit of set design. I don't know why Danaerys agreed to play their game with the champions fighting. And Myreen's champion with his lance struck me as out of place...more Westerosi than I would have expected. Daario does have swagger. Dany's speech was lame. And her delivery was lacking. But the collars over the walls were ingenious. It was a weird place to end the episode though. And I sincerely hope she intends to have the Unsullied attack the city. The Unsullied need a chance to do something other than march around, dammit!

Little Finger never even crossed my mind. What exactly does he gain from Joffrey's death? Other than Sansa, of course. I'm really surprised. Who else would be involved in a plot with Little Finger? Tywin maybe. It's amazing how well things are falling into place for Tywin all of a sudden. He went from having an uncontrollable grandson as king and Tyrion trying to get Casterly Rock to having an easily manipulayed grandson as king and Tyrion imprisoned. And now he's cutting deals with Dorne. Someone needs to kill Tywin. Danaerys is just so...boring. I loved that she gave some love to poor Jorah though. And a literal pissing contest! Wonderful! Jon Snow is finally all grown up! He's making the tough decisions that show he has gained the wisdom he needs to lead. And he knows that his wildling girl is massacring innocent peasants. Who knows how much that has to do with his push to leave her raiding party alone. Jaime...shame on him. I just can't even... The scene with Podrick and Tyrion was so good! There are so few truly good characters in this show. I hope that doesn't mean they'll kill him.

I watch with subtitles. Lol. He said to have her brought to the Tower of the Hand before the wedding.

High points were Oberyn vs. Lannisters and Loras vs. Jaime. The Shae and Tyrion scene was painful to watch. And I'm very curious to see whether Shae is really gone. I'm most curious about what Joffrey's death means for the kingdom. Obviously Margaery is the queen, but that's an empty title and Tommen will be king. If that's the case, my initial reaction is that Cersei is responsible for the poisoning. That explains what she got from Qyburn and why she sent Pycelle away. I assume she would be Queen Regent again until Tommen comes of age. The same reasoning would point to Tywin, even though I don't think it was him. Otherwise, I think the Tyrells, although I'm not sure what the point would be from a political perspective. Margaery doesn't gain anything. Then again, she doesn't end up in scary Joff's clutches. *shudder* Team Stannis will think the leech actually had something to do with this.

So what does this mean? Joffrey died without an heir. Does Margaery get to stay queen? Somehow, I think she's the queen, but Tommen is the king now?

OMG. Yessssssssssssssssssssss, finally! Finally! But...who did it? I think everyone except Tyrion is a candidate. :)

Funny, the name makes me thing of Oberon, the fairy king. Lol. I guess he's getting his drunken orgies on out there in the magical forest. Maybe Ser Dontos is the entertainment? It may explain his inexplicable return, and Joff's lack of interest. OMG, IT'S TIME!!!!

Speaking of off-screen deaths, I was rewatching the episode and it suddenly hit me that Dany's blood rider has disappeared. He was there with Jorah at the warlock's tower, and then *poof*. I know it took me an entire season to notice, so don't laugh at me. Was he in any scenes last season, or is every single Dothraki we met in Season 1 gone? If that's the case, I'm sad to see that part of her evolution unrepresented.

Pallas, is there any better karma than saving a helpless little goatling from the rodeo? The only place worse is the dragon larder.

Pallas, I like your characterization of Melisandre as the person who recognizes the danger in the north, and that she truly does have visions. I’m not sure I buy that her visions are related to her Red God. Might it just be plain old magic that she and the Brotherhood guy, Thoros, are tapped into? We know magic’s on the rise everywhere. And Thoros talked about not believing until recently, when he was able to bring Beric back to life. Are the Red God’s followers really any different that the warlocks who stole Dany’s dragons or the wargs north of the Wall? I think we can attribute a lot to the rise of magic, and I think it’s cyclical in nature, just like the return of the comet and of winter. Isazouzi, I like the idea that the Wall was built by men, but it was so long ago no one really remembers what it was built to keep out. I wonder whether there has been a winter like the one that’s coming since the time it was built. Has it ever been challenged by the White Walkers and their zombie armies? We need Old Nan to tell us some more stories.

In the year since her wedding aired, I have not once thought of her as Sansa Lannister until just now. I'm sick at the realization. Cersei Tyrell, on the other hand... Nah...it won't happen. I can imagine a dozen events that would prevent that marriage from happening, and I can't put faith in any scenario where Cersei is actually forced to marry Loras. Still would be funny, if only for the Drunk Cersei moments.

StillShimpy, I love her! I'm glad you gave her such a wonderful home. Would you believe I have a goat who was named Puddles at birth? She's been renamed Gracie, but she started out with the same humiliating moniker. Nice touching noses with you Pallas!

Hiya StillShimpy! Is your avatar your pup? She/he is so cute!

I equate the wall with the pyramids. I think men (the first men?) may have built it, but there's no telling how. Lol. It's beyond my imagining what a collossal undertaking that must have been, with castles (or other fortifications), tunnels underneath, and who knows what else! Primary entertainment? Ugh. I doubt it'll be Ser Dontos, but considering that Joffrey wanted to serve Sansa Robb's head for the occasion, I can't imagine it'll be anything tasteful. Do we dare hope that Lady Olenna or Cersei have some say here?

Pallas and ChocButterfly, I loved the reality of the dragon scene too, and thought Jorah overreacted. I loved that they incorporated such a natural, instinctual response into the scene. It doesn't mean the dragons can't be ridden. It just means that they aren't domesticated animals, and Dany needs to keep her guard up and work with them consistently.

I think the Wall has to create its own weather patterns. It's a barrier to wind and moisture. I live at the base of a not that big hill (a few hundred feet) with open spaces all around, and my wind, moisture, wildlife, everything is different from the areas on either side. And the south side would definitely benefit (making assumptions about their sun and what hemisphere they're in). Yes! This! I tried to figure out the astronomical forces that would need to be at work, and gave up. I thought out the genetic issues, and gave up. It's fiction, and trying to make sense of it just makes my head hurt. What's funny is that I had the hardest time with the zombies that don't follow the usual "zombie rules." "What do you mean a head shot won't work?" Then I decided that their bodies are animated by magic in ways that make their central nervous system irrelevant. Jon said something about this when he was telling Tormund about the Night's Watch forces on the Wall. He said that there are engineers and rangers who go up. So my guess is that the engineers are checking for structural issues and making repairs. How they would do that is beyond me.

*peeks aroung corner* Is it safe? Hiya, fellow Unsullied! Pull up a chair. I'm loving the zoo theme in here, and the ability to speak freely even more!

Previously.tv peeps, YOU ARE AWESOME! Thank you for providing such a great forum and a safe haven. I'm thrilled to have found you. (Edit: deleted just about everything, since there were more appropriate answers)

I love the idea that her encounter with Ser Dontos empowers Sansa rather than boding ill for the future. I guess it shows just how twisted this show is that it hadn't occurred to me that the necklace could symbolize something positive.

ChocButterfly, I think Tywin is well-aware of the likelihood that the twincest rumors are true. And if they're true, Stannis is the rightful king. Because of that and his obsession with legacy, he would never acknowledge those rumors. As for Little Finger, he grew up with Catelyn and Lysa, but I'm sure not even he knows what he's walking into. It'll be fun to watch him try to pander to her nuttiness and not set himself up for the long fall. I'm assuming that episode two will cover the characters that were skipped in episode one, and I can't wait! Any predictions?

I've been pondering the logistics of that too. It's a nightmare to imagine the amount of livestock, grain, etc they're hauling around to feed presumably tens of thousands of people. Did they drag the entire larders of the cities they conquered along with them? Yeah, I know. It's a tv show... True that. I was thinking it was Blackfish, as her uncle, but Edmure is the new Lord, so I guess it would be him, if anyone. I'm looking forward to seeing where that storyline goes. Hopefully Sunday!

I would love to see LF and Arya mix it up. I'm betting LF will be at the Vale if/when Arya gets there. I'm not sure whether LF is going to the Vale to court Crazy Aunt Lysa or whether a marriage has already been arranged. I wouldn't think it would be within Tywin's power (or Joffrey's) to marry her off to anyone. Her father died last season, and even if he hadn't, I don't know what a father's rights are to make decisions on behalf of his widowed daughter. I think LF thinks he can walk into the Vale and sweep her off her feet. And I think he has underestimated the nuthouse he's entering. I'm curious what you all think about it.