Klaw

Yea, Donna, Kelly, Dylan, David and Brandon all have some sort of addiction issues. And big shock, they tend to be the most judge-y of the crew. What a bunch of squeefs. Bussichio ... This. My take was that he just tells himself that shit to justify the fact that he did, in fact, abandon his 2-year old daughter and left her alone with a coked out mother. There's no way in any universe that was a good thing to do. You're probably right that that's where Kelly's narcissistic tendencies come from. Even more so than her mother, probably. I'm with Team TaH-TaH (as in Val's Bodacious...)

I do love, however, that, on occasion those POC "touched by a Hillster" (hee!) had the opportunity to put Brandon on blast. See the kid photographer who screamed at him for being a "user" and a racist and in that same episode the guy (DJ? Devo? Viveca Fox's boyfriend) who snarked that Brandon must've consulted his "Spike Lee Handbook." See also the basketball player who completely read Brandon for filth for assuming he was going to school out of district. And who can forget the glorious Jordan Bonner ("Brandon? Brandon of BEVERLY HILLS? You don't know SQUAT!"). Or the great Alex Diaz of the Denim Jacket of Political Intrigue and even Janet ("Hey, I wanted Anita Hill to come"). Of course those moments are fleeting as the POC always has to come to the realization that Brandon is just the best at White Savior-ing and be honored to become part of his token harem. See "Tamales of Racial Understanding." SMDH.

Rocky 2 got pawned off to the Donna's parents. We saw her walk him once when her and Ray were a'courting...

That's the beginning of Season 7. Brandon is the worst there too. Oh JESUS (TM Sarah D. Bunting) Gah, I forgot about that episode. CRINGE Factor 1000. Seriously. I would almost forgive them for it, if they just had the sense to leave alone all the various THE!GANG!SOLVES!RACISM! storylines.

Seriously. And again, why was Kelly all "Did you get high with Val/Did Val give you the coke?" She's not fucking dating Val, it's none of her business if Val was into coke - she just wanted something else to berate Val about. Well, joke's (soon to be) on you Coke!Kelly! And Val was especially gorgeous in the PPAD scenes (even with the odd half up do)... She's just beautiful, period and say, it again with me, SHE OWNS A NIGHTCLUB... in what universe would someone who looks like Val have to scrounge around for friends? Oh yea, SpellingLand. GMAFB. I'm with Tara. I hate that fucking Bird. Nice present, Joe. She has it for exactly one week before she loses it and it is given away. And exactly what did you expect her to do? Blow off the Rose Court just because YOU got her a stupid Christmas present? That's on you, jones. And I don't see why they keep building up to "the thing between" Susan and Jonathan. Maybe we can do a 5 ways the girls of the NIner can do better... Colin is such a loser, for real. And let's not even talk about Stupid Brandon.

Ok, that wins the internet for the day.

As the wife of a Berliner and an expat, I totally get where Cindy is coming from. Even with a decent proficiency in German and meeting new people through clubs and whatnot, it's not easy moving to a new country and dealing with the cultural shock and the language barrier. It's often easier for the spouse with the job because he/she gets distracted with work while the other spouse has to build a new life for themselves. While it's awesome in a lot of ways (and these days I'm really enjoying living in Europe), it is also hard as hell in many respects. And it doesn't help, I imagine, to have some judgmental shitty kid telling you your feelings are invalid and guilting you in to going back to a lonely situation. Shut up, Brandon. And not for nothing,but I sure as hell wouldn't want to spend MY holidays with my husband's boss. That's work, no matter how you slice it, and it would be annoying at best. I'm not saying I'd rather be spending it with Bray-don, but I'm #TeamCindy on wanting to spend it with family and/or friends as opposed to my husband's colleagues. Amen. I'm not a native New Yorker, but I lived there on and off for over a decade and I do love NYC so I think I can chime in on this sentiment. On behalf of New York, STFU Colin. You too, Miss "I love NY" Kelly

I loved seeing Cindy again! Man, I didn't realize how much I missed her. Though I giggled at her telling a room half full of strangers that she "loved them all." Really, Cindy? Even fucking Joe? And wow, Brandon. The Poutmeister. Don't you think maybe your mother, whose 20+ year marriage is on the rocks, could do with some support and compassion as opposed to your judgment and pronouncements? Little pissant. I would tell him "look, Brandon, we've been married longer than you've been alive. Maybe you need to stop talking about things you know nothing about." And, Colin... why bother saying "it's not mine" if 10 seconds later you're going to rationalize your drug abuse with "well you guys drink and I don't, so..." So agree with the ladies - why is Colin such a prize again? He's a druggie, a whore and a shitty artist with a Tin Tin haircut - and IMHO not that hot - what exactly is the draw?

So much this, atlanticslide! You are right, of course that had Donna been 40something black woman from South Central LA her "concerns" would have still been out of line. However, add to the fact that she is a very young (barely out of her teens) white woman of privilege commenting (and criticising) the lives of black people she does not know (as if she has a right to) - well, that just screams racist privilege. In my African American studies classes in college way back when, I had a really great professor who tied every current issue re: race relations in the US back to the institution of slavery. One of these was the privilege that white people, slaveowners or not (so that would include poor white people without means), had of demanding a black person's "papers" at any time or being able to demand an explanation for what a black person was doing at any time at any place. That right of ownership over a black person's body and being went up to the "privilege" of being able to rape and murder said black person with impunity. Ta Nehisi Coates book "Between the World and Me" also discusses these issues. So Donna coming into that family's lives and basically asserting her value judgments on them, while she may have had nothing but the best intentions, her actions are very racist and and problematic in a way that she and obviously the writers had no clue about. When the woman said "I don't have to justify myself to you" - it gave us only a glimmer about how deeply offensive Donna was. Same with her conversation with Lisa. There is a reason Lisa bristled at Donna's meddling that goes deeper than what the show was capable of exploring. (And of course having Donna come across as anything other than a fucking Saint was a non-starter). A better show would have had Lisa school her on just how obnoxious she was being and have had DONNA learning something as opposed to the poor, down trodden black people she "saved." /rant. And this is yet another reason why it's good to have diversity in the writers' room!!!! This fucking show. Don't write about sh*t you obviously know nothing about. SMDH.

We loves Gordon Lightfoot. Gordon Lightfoot is good doog. I bet Gordon Lightfoot would appreciates donations to roller derbies. Me three! More Gordon Lightfoot, please! He is a good doog... Seriously. The utter gall of some skinny little 20-year-old bitch coming into some stranger's house and telling her that the way she runs her household is "just wrong." That woman was as zen as a monk because if she was working 2 jobs, going to nursing school AND raising 3 children on her own? That would have been enough to choke a bitch out. How dare she. Ok, we didn't talk about it, but what's up with Brandon's weird talking cadence? What's with him talking like he grew up in South Philly "heya, NAT, doncha know? I've learned m'lesson, ey..." It's like a cheap Rocky Balboa impression. WTF. We know you're from Canada Jason! Joe walks funny. That is all.

ITA with everyone who grudgingly thinks Kelly was right in this instance. BUT I do still have to say, that Kelly and Brandon totally lied to Colin and Susan (and Val, frankly) because something DID happen between them that night and just because they didn't have sex it doesn't mean they both weren't totally sketch. I mean, if I found out that Mr. Klaw spent the night with his ex girlfriend and basically the only reason he didn't cheat on me was because (1) she locked her door and (2) he's such "a good guy" he did the "honourable thing" (BARF). Bitch, please. We would be having, um, a discussion, y'hear me? And there's no way I would be fucking apologizing a la Susan for "overreacting." Plus all their discussion around it - are you kidding me? If nothing at all happened, why not tell your significant others about it from the jump. Not mentioning it makes you look like you do have something to hide. Maybe I'm too sensitive or something, but I sure as fuck would consider it a betrayal if Mr. Klaw spent the day discussing with his ex whether or not he would cheat on me. So I just hated how they had Kelly and Brandon basically pat themselves on the damn back for not stepping out and then blasting Val, Colin and Susan about their suspicions as if said suspicions are so crazy given the aforementioned sketch activity. GAH those two.

Or have Val intern at D&D during a spring break... Oh man. How I wish this had happened! Such a missed opportunity. For the Schemiest Schemester who ever schemed, Val sure does fall down sometimes when she gets things handed to her. And she's alternately portrayed as Amanda Woodward Jr. (taking her money from Jonesy and buying the PPAD, for example or her elaborate faux framing Ray plan with Ginger) to, well a dope, (see, losing all her money by handing it over to an obvious grifter (Parker Lewis) all in order to mess with Kelly). So dumb. Pick a lane show. Again, we keep saying this but if Val truly was this pretty, successful, nightclub owner and business student (with the best boobs Lol!) she would have guys (and girls alike) crawling all over her to either befriend her or date her. Why they keep portraying her as the loser/black sheep of the gang is just so beyond unrealistic. Was the point of Erin to persuade GenXers not to have kids? 'Cause, man that little girl was annoying, even by kid standards! And 4 brothers and that's the best Colin could do?! Re: Joe and Joe's mom, stop fluffing fucking Donna. The whole "it's not your fault" "you told the truth" , etc. is so lame. Somehow Joe facing a freaking assault charge is all about fucking Donna's pain. STFU, Donna. Agree about the way these lawyers talk to Donna. Donna's a grown ass woman but because she's a virgin she needs to be treated like a grade schooler? What the hell, show? How messed up about female sexuality are these writers, anyway? Wait... don't answer that.. I'm a lawyer and granted when I was a litigator I worked on civil, not criminal, cases, so all my clients were adults but I cannot see any scenario in which I would talk to someone who wasn't, say, under 10 years old or who didn't suffer from a cognitive disorder, in such an infantile way. It is condescending at best and insulting (their intelligence and mine) at worst. One more time: STFU Donna. I haven't seen the list, but has anyone suggested a challenge where we can list 5 ways the show bent reality in order to canonize Kelly and/or Donna? I figure it happens at least 5 times each show in these later seasons. ...

Ah, but you see, that's totally different, ZeroDiscipline - there's nothing wrong with that scenario at all IMO. First, the kids were offered the fruit by the seller and second, its not like a piece of fruit is as messy as Chips and freakin' Salsa (who's going to sweep up the crumbs and spilled Salsa, Steve?) But yea, as an adult, it annoys me when they make the gang do this "cool horsing around" bullshit. So not cute. THANK YOU! I do kinda get why David got pissy with Donna (although he still should have just manned up and broken up with her, not cheated on her) because the girl told him he WOULD NEVER* get some. But Val just wants to slow down a bit and, hey, David? Haven't you yet noticed that it's much better to have sex when your partner, um, I dunno, wants to? Ass. *Yea, I know, she told him she would when she/they got married, but to a 17 year old boy she might as well have just said "nope, never going to happen."

Ok - I know I'm a bad person, but the scene where Joe stumbles and collapses after getting off the plane cracks my shit up. For real. It is as unintentionally funny (IMHO) as when Nat craps out at the Pit. It's almost worth having to watch all those hours of them flying the stupid biplanes. Andy & MuuMuu - there is just not enough brain bleach for those images. So cringeworthy. And I love how Donna is all "reluctant" to replace the "real model" but once she's up there, hoo boy. GOLD.

Amen. And not for nothing, while I'm not a football fan, I did grow up in Pennsylvania and HS football was a pretty big deal. (Maybe not Texas-level big deal, but there's a reason "All the Right Moves" was set in Pennsylvania). Especially in the Penn State pre-scandal era, so coaching a good PA HS team would have been a big deal (feeding stars to Penn State or other big football colleges). Why Joe wouldn't finish college and then return to coach, I have no idea, unless we're to believe he finished college in PA? Either way, stupid. Wait, is this the season we get Donna writhing on the hood of a car? And St. Joe gets all pissy about it? Oh jeez.

The infantilising of women on this show is so so gross. The baby voice, the fucking simpleton virgin routine. Gross. Agree with everything. I would have LOVED if they had had Brandon respond to Kelly's little martyr routine: "Well, you did have a choice - you could have chosen to stay with me and not messed around with your ex-boyfriend Dylan, but hey, whatever, bitch, I'm into Susan now." The fact that Brandon lapdogs after her is so gross. Have some fucking dignity, JONES. Plus her attitude toward Donna is so aggravating. What sexually active 20 year old BFF would actively try to dissuade her girl from getting hers? I would be so like, do it! What are you waiting for? It's fun! You only didn't do it because your uptight bitch Mom guilted you and now you know she was a big ol' slut so have at it! Here's a pack of condoms! The fact that they made Kelly a mini-Felice this episode was so annoying. Maybe i'm the only one, but it's a giant pet peeve of mine when people eat while supermarket shopping. It's tacky, no class and technically stealing (if you don't pay for it, which I've seen people do). I just think it goes to that gross entitlement streak Steve exhibits on occasion. I don't find it charming at all. I wonder how the store manager would have treated D'Shawn or someone who looked like him if he had just helped himself to chips & salsa while shopping. Wait until you've paid for your food, Steve! That said, his grace was awesome.

While I think that's true, I think, at least in the early seasons, Brenda's beauty was always touted as much as Kelly's. Offhand, I can remember the fashion show episode where Kelly's mom remarked that Brenda & Kelly together were dangerous. And clearly not every guy (at least in the beginning) fell instantly for Kelly - You had Dylan choose Brenda (at least at first), Brandon turn her down and of course she couldn't turn Gay!Kyle! out (in later seasons, who knows what would have happened? Her VaJayJay was that powerful after Brenda left). I think after ShanDo departed, Kelly's rise as the "lead character/great beauty" was assured and it was probably more of an implied thing that the writers would make sure she always got the edit. The Donna thing? Totes Nepotism. LOL! Also forgot to add, um, Felice - yep you ARE a freakin' hypocrite. Just own it, bitch. If I were Donna, instead of simpering about the "best lessons" (*GAG*), I would've headed to the drugstore to load up on condoms and never looked back. I mean, I do love the Felice character in all her hypocritical goodness but I thought Donna letting her off the hook so easily was such a missed opportunity. I can't help but think that a 20 year old virgin who stayed a virgin more or less out of guilt over "doing it" over her parents' wishes would have been a lot angrier about Felice's revelation. But has been noted time and again, Donna is simple.

Kelly can put as much eye make up on as she wants and wear as many cropped tops as she likes, Val will always be hotter. Again, Jennie is perfectly attractive, but she has Zero sex appeal and the baby voice coming out of the CatButtMouth doesn't help. Also to a lesser extent re: Susan. I hate how they make her act like some ugly ducking next to her. GMAFB. Yes. *Dying* I seriously wonder who the hell Tori's plastic surgeon was. Was it his/her first surgery? I mean, she got the boob/nose jobs fairly young (pre-show? right when it started?) what happened? Did she go behind her parents' back and have to use her babysitting money, what? I just don't understand it - Spelling c. 80s/90s was loaded. I think the only way Tori struts around like she does without going insane with jealousy is because she's a full-blown narcissist and therefore deeply deluded.

Dang, I never realised this! I got used to ye ol' Craftsman. The Brenda years, The Giant Pants of Redemption, Downward!Dylan!Spiral!, etc. I'm going to miss it! Also, I don't remember much about the later seasons, but I do remember that I HATED Dylan when he came back. It's awful what they did to his character over time, because he started out great. I guess Luke's shame of having to come back to TV showed in his portrayal of Later!Seasons!Dylan or something.

SNORT! see, what they SHOULDA done is have had Dylan be a year older than the gang was and dropped back into the gang's grade after impregnating Parisian girls - OR - had clarified that he had attended an American school abroad (and thus stayed the same grade as his peers) whilst knocking up said Parisian chicks. Or, are we to believe he was running drugs and guns and cars with Mr. YOU CRUD and Stewart in middle school and he only knocked up Parisian chicks during his summer vacation? so many questions.... Seriously. She's rich, young, pretty and a college student. I really have problems thinking she had 0 friends. Sure, maybe she was a loner but come the fuck on show. But really, she was totes Dylan's Jack Dawson and her only role was to just be this perfect doomed love interest so it didn't matter that she had no friends or backstory to speak of.

So much to unpack in this ep! Agree about the cat. Jeebus, my poor cat and I moved cross-country in a U-haul and that was hell for her. Can't imagine being strapped to a fucking MOTORCYCLE, DYLAN! Luke Perry is not a very good actor, but damn if he doesn't commit to his trauma scenes. I think it was Sarah who said that he's one of those actors who, if he can't be good, he'll be doing ALL THE ACTING. That's Luke. Earning that SAG card. I actually respect him for it way more than, say, Jason, who is basically phoning it in as Brandon and playing Producer/Director. He looked so bored at that death scene. UGH so much this! Joe is a fucking QB for a top college football team. I wonder if he employs his Judgy McJudgerson crap on his teammates whose antics probably put his slutty HS sweetheart's to shame. Or does he only judge women who act "wild." STFU, Joe. And speaking of sexist bullshit, STFU, STEVE for saying "She was so beautiful, how could anyone do this to her?" That quote always made me snort with derision. Oh, so if she was an old ugly hag, it would be ok for her to get shot up? Such a fucked up thing to say. Not only did Lead Henchman (Wesley Snipes wannabe) fuck up by pretty much telling Bruno about the hit, how about you, Bruno, call the cops? I mean, if you love Toni like a daughter, you have to think that your boss killing HER HUSBAND on her wedding night would be a little, er, devastating? Maybe sneak off to a side room in that fucking mansion and call the cops? No, you call Brandon at the PEACH PIT - because why? If Dylan was going to get gunned down, what the hell was Brandon going to do, get gowned down too? And if not, if the "two best men" were actually good at their jobs, Dylan wouldn't have known what hit him, right? So stupid. And "2 Best Men", how the hell was that "hit" going to look like a car jacking? Car jackers don't usually fuck up the cars they want to jack; just the car owners. so many questions, so stupid. And finally, I was always rolling my eyes whenever Dylan takes the gun proffered by the guy he KNOWS killed his Dad and his wife. Getting his fingerprints all over it. I mean if Toni is a homicidal maniac bent on revenging his accidental murder of his daughter, you would think he would take the gun and figure out a way to frame Dylan for something. And he was willing to murder Dylan while his daughter was alive. What makes Dylan think he's safe and sound now? So, so, so dumb. Having said all that, agree that the show with the original music was very nicely done. Poor Dylan. So long stick insect...

Agreed, but Tori MUST'VE thought she looked hot, right? Right?! Like, she HAD TO HAVE BEEN delusional. I mean, they can troll as hard as they want but I cannot believe she would memorialise the Cavern of Doom on a hit TV show if she thought she looked bad. It's insane to think that SHE thought that she looked good, but how else can you explain the constant parade of slutty outfits...? It actually could be the subject of an amazing psychological profile. How growing up a rich heiress to a Hollywood producer whose bread and butter was (conventionally) beautiful women (i.e., western european (see thin nose aspiration with the hatchet job nose job), skinny, big boobs, etc.) being brainwashed to try to turn yourself into that ideal and failing miserably. (Seriously, who was her plastic surgeon? the local butcher?) Then working every day with naturally pretty to stunning actresses (ShanDo, Tiff, Kathleen Roberts, even Jennie)... what do you tell yourself? How do you survive? I find it fascinating, I truly do.

Heh heh but why not both? It's obvious Tori Spelling is narcissistic and delusional enough to think she looked good (she was ALWAYS in some ridiculous outfit - when does she writhe on a car half naked? this season?), so I can totes see her pushing wardrobe to constantly slut up her outfits and them being too scared of Papa Spelling to push back. At the same time, I can see them also using the situation to maximize their revenge trolling to wit: "[yea, you wanna show off the Canyons of Doom, bitch?] I have just the thing! Looks fabulous!" And Tori, of course, without a shred of self-awareness, believed them.

As Sarah D. would say, Oh Jesus. Worst. Acting. Ever.

Don't get me started. IKR? It would have been awesome if Ray had been the "working class hero" who, before making it big in the music biz, kept reminding the Gang that they were all just a bunch of entitled, spoiled losers. Also would have been cool if he had dumped Donna and her Cavern of Doom boobs (y'know, so he could get laid once in awhile?) instead of making him go all stalker wierdo coward on her - which is a total hatchet job to the character we had been introduced to. Remember that Ray? The one who went into a burning building to save people? Oh, Gah!!! don't remind me of that awful, awful storyline. So damn eye-roll-y.