[The Snowdens: Ashley, Dmitri, bachelorette #1, bachelorette #2, but definitely no Vanessa]

Personally, I still believe it. Texts suggesting that at one point she was into trying choking during sex, or enjoyed it at certain times, don’t have anything to do with whether he assaulted her with the headboard, whether Ashley assaulted her, whether her kids were scared, whether there was psychological abuse, or whether he went too far with the choking. That could easily go from BDSM to straight up unwanted violence. 

I also don’t see what she’d get out of making it up. Seems to me like she’d stand to gain more by staying (possible money, financial support, a visa, fame on the show) than by getting restraining orders and leaving them. Plus both Vanessa and Tayler have offered messages of support — I think there’s something there personally. 

[Meri Brown and her Wet Bar of Tears]

50 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

Did you ever read "Sam's" description of what he would be wearing at Disney so that Meri would be able to spot him in the crowd?  Bermuda length khakis with knee high socks, brogues, a short sleeve dress shirt (probably with a plastic pen pouch in the shirt pocket), a tie, all topped off with a jaunty fedora.  Typical attire for a  mega-millionaire encountering the love of his life for a first date at Disney.  No? 

That alone should have sent Meri running for the hills, but she was spared the sight of this sartorial splendor when, as luck would have it, he sent his trusted Lindsay in his place as he was busy making million dollar deals that day.

Yeah, I always forget about the “vegan, devoutly Catholic billionaire” aspect of his shtick. Three things that ALWAYS go together. 

Seriously, if I was Meri’s kid I’d partly just be pissed at her for being so f*cking dumb. I know she felt desperate, but damn - just go on Match.com and meet an accountant. You are not going to meet a vegan Catholic billionaire in your Twitter DMs (or probably ever). 

[S12.E16: Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace]

43 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

So True!!! What's making it even worse, is this new Unmatchables show that makes it hard to distinguish what exactly made those people worse choices than the ones who were actually chosen for this show! Because from where I sit at least half these people should have been candidates for that show instead of this one.....at the very least, this season would have been better if they had swapped Chris and Xavius..........

One of the guys on there is considered unmatchable because he’s shallow and too focused on looks. 

Um... have they met Chris?

[Meri Brown and her Wet Bar of Tears]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:46 AM, TurtlePower said:

The fact the Jackie Overton was outed—you d think—would have caused her to remove the persona (and maybe start a new one). I have no idea what Jackie is getting out of the continuation of this character. 

With Meri and the others, perhaps it was a power thing (especially with Meri, a tv personality). I still can’t get over the fact that Meri fell for this after she was cautioned by Mariah and others that this person could be fake. She fell for it, hook line and sinker (pun intended). Additionally, even with the photos and voicemails out there, Meri claims it was just “friendship” and that she was 100% duped. And that’s why some of us won’t entirely let it go—she’s never been honest or vulnerable about what really happened, so people don’t trust Meri. 

I remember one of the episodes after when Meri told Kody she wasn’t going to come crawling back to him. She then went on to talk about herself and what SHE needs and the crying, the tears and anger that Kody “wouldn’t cross a burning bridge for her”.  It’s been a disaster ever since. 

Sorry to digress from the original observation. I can’t help it when Meri plays victim all the time and expects everything to go back to normal without addressing the elephant in the room. That elephant has followed them everywhere ever since. 

 

Yeah, it’s a very unpopular opinion (and I do know Mariah isn’t perfect and comes across sanctimonious on social media) but I also didn’t blame Mariah for being mad at Meri about the whole catfish thing at first.

First of all, Mariah was just around 18-19 when this was all happening, and had just come out or was just about to, so was probably going through some growing pains and self-consciousness herself. Her mom gets a legal divorce from her dad, which was probably weird. It’s also televised and public. Her parents have had her on a show about their polygamous relationship and how great it is since before she was an adult. Then suddenly her mom, who claims she’s still Very Married to her dad, is clearly getting catfished. She warns Meri - and by the way, knows that her mom getting catfished will probably be televised, publicized, written about in tabloids, and become fodder for gossip at her college when she goes back - but her mom ignores her.

Then Mariah comes home for the summer during college and probably expects to spend time with Meri, but she’s holed up in her room talking to a catfish (I know that was one of Mariah’s complaints, that she was constantly on the phone and on the computer all summer with some strange “man” who was clearly not real). Then her mom takes her to Disneyland TO MEET THE CATFISH in person, which is creepy and could have been dangerous for both Mariah and Meri. Again, the whole time Mariah knows this is fake and will probably end up on TV and likely humiliate both of them and the family online. 

Then when it does fall apart, her mom plays victim, pretends she was basically forced into the situation even though she was warned a million times, and pretends that everyone is being “so mean” to her by not immediately running to her side to support her. 

Mariah is certainly not perfect and she seems to have gotten over it since then. But I’d have been super pissed too, frankly, and wanted to distance myself for a while. Especially as a late teens/early 20-something trying to build my own life. She was probably asked about the catfish by fellow college kids. And taking her young adult daughter to meet the catfish in person was absolutely inappropriate and weird, borderline reckless. 

[S12.E16: Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace]

@glitterpussy, totally re: Bri. She made a minor comment about organization, and even quickly covered it over by joking about how she’s organized enough for both of them. It was NOT some severe call-out or whatever. He responded by basically saying he asked the experts for someone who wasn’t her and he didn’t get what he wanted, as well as saying that he was turned off at their wedding which she likely remembers as a wonderful day. Like... damn! Calm down. 

I mean, what are their future conversations going to be like?

“That thing you said this morning annoyed me a little, could you try to be a little softer with your tone?” 

”oh really? Well I’m not attracted to you anymore after you gave birth, I had doubts on our honeymoon, and I looked up divorce proceedings last year.” 

[S12.E16: Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace]

I thought Erik’s final little speech to Virginia was a bit odd. While I very much think that Virginia has plenty of problems, I wouldn’t necessarily have trusted all those declarations of extreme love. Unless it was mostly editing, they seemed to have spent most of the previous month at each other’s throats. All of a sudden he acts like he unconditionally loves her? I could be wrong, but it seemed more like he was pitching to her that they should stay together so he wouldn’t end up divorced a second time/be embarrassed on TV than that he was actually desperately in love with her. I’d have been skeptical personally. 

[S12.E16: Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace]

14 hours ago, Katie111 said:

Clara taking the personality test was the funniest thing I’ve seen on this show all season.  I love how she just lives life and it drives Ryan crazy!  

Yeah, a lot of people on social media hated her answers but I saw them as refreshingly honest. Who cares if she just wants to fall in love, do her job and have fun in life? She’s contributing to society with a decent job that needs to be done and she’s a nice person. What’s the big deal? I feel like Ryan thinks he’s a lot fancier and “greater” than he is.

I noticed he frowned and looked all annoyed when she said she didn’t think her contributions to society were greater than the average person... well, most of ours are not! Most of us just have families or careers or both and live our lives. It’s actually nice to see someone just be honest about that instead of bragging. 🤷‍♀️ Also, I haven’t heard what these massive ambitions of his even are besides spending hours at the gym every day. 

[The Snowdens: Ashley, Dmitri, bachelorette #1, bachelorette #2, but definitely no Vanessa]

1 hour ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I see Ashley as helping to groom women for dmitri.  She sees how much "guidance" they will accept.  How many hops will they jump through?  Can she get them to change themselves to become part of the family? The more they are willing to do, the more likely they are to put up with his abusive self.  Change your diet; steam clean your vag; wait for so long before you can get the dmitri wonder D; take care of the kids; clean the house . . . . Slowly limit your world until it is all about the family.  

Yeah - not trying to be dramatic but the basic elements of it seem similar to the NVIXM (spelling it wrong? Idk) cult and Allison Mack’s role in it. Where there’s one “main” woman who basically serves as handmaiden/lackey to the primary abuser, and over time becomes an abuser herself and even recruits new victims. The guy is still pulling the strings but she is totally in on it. 

[The Merrifields: Dannielle, Garrick and Roberta, "the Brazilian bombshell"]

13 hours ago, Canadian Girl said:

Young Dannielle and Ick, posted on Reddit.

Wow. Out of the two of them, I definitely wouldn’t guess that HE would be the one ending up with multiple sexual partners in the future. He was even dorkier looking than he is now. 

[The Snowdens: Ashley, Dmitri, bachelorette #1, bachelorette #2, but definitely no Vanessa]

19 hours ago, readheaded said:

Did I miss the part about how Christeline was able to come to the US for a prolonged period of time? 

I’m guessing he legally married Christeline on some kind of K-1 visa. Dimitri and Ashley have never been legally married. 

[The Snowdens: Ashley, Dmitri, bachelorette #1, bachelorette #2, but definitely no Vanessa]

20 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

I'm now thinking that the kids clinging to these new women like barnacles is due to more than just poor boundaries. 

I'll be honest and say I got an egotistical vibe from him, but not physical or sexual abuse. That surprises me.  Ashley, I could see her being physically abusive. 

Either way, I feel bad for their kids. 

Idk seems like the carefully calculated type to me - the guy who MUST seem totally “together” and “alpha male” on camera/in front of others. Often they’re the most dangerous. I don’t think he would ever tolerate someone making him look bad or challenging him. And he’s clearly obsessed with sex and the idea of himself as some kind of Don Juan, so I could definitely see him pushing his extreme sexual preferences on others and just expecting them to go along with it. While Ashley definitely has a controlling side, I’ve always thought it was more of a thing where he “allowed” her to take the reins a bit in public because behind closed doors he calls the shots. 

[S03.E06: Got To Be Real]

15 minutes ago, Mothra said:

She (Dannnnnielle) is just so goddam dumb.  Qberta has a plan, an evil plan, and the low cunning to pull it off, while poor Dannnnnielle stands there with her thumb up her ass.  Saying that Dannnnielle willingly went into this with eyes open is like saying the rabbit willingly stepped into the trap because she wanted the carrot.  It's kind of wonderful imo that Dannnnielle was so trusting of human nature that she really believed all the crap her husband fed her.

But  god is she dumb.

She keeps saying God wants her to do it?! Why on earth would God want you to do this lol. What a weird and specific and absurd request from a deity. 

[S03.E06: Got To Be Real]

14 hours ago, Adeejay said:

Talk about misdirected anger. Danielle is not only stupid, but she is also delusional.  I can’t believe she called Roberta a liar and blamed her for what was most likely Garrick’s idea.  The irony is that Roberta seems to care about her and her feelings.  Garrick on the other hand, doesn’t seem to give a damn.

Ashley and Dimitri looked terrified when Tayler asked to stay.  I am guessing that wasn’t part of the storyline.  Can’t help but wonder why Tayler is in such a rush to move in.

I have a feeling Tami is pushing for a new wife to spite Sophie. Given how well that worked for Meri Brown on Sister Wives, it’s probably not a good idea. 

Yeah, I try really hard to feel bad for Dannielle because Garrick is just such an absolute manipulative loser. But she willingly got a divorce to keep him AND is pulling the classic “the woman is at fault” - he’s your husband of over 10 years and the father of your two kids who dragged you down to Mexico so he could fuck a stranger and you could vacation alone. She’s a random lady you met once before who can’t actually communicate with you in English. You can’t even know what she really said with that stupid translator. I’m not saying Roberta is an angel, but how on earth is she the main one at fault?! She’s been told she’s Garrick’s wife, of course she’s going to want to have sex with him. And she seems about as dumb as Dannielle; sure, she might want a green card, but damn, there are easier ways to get a visa than all this. 
 

I’m sorry, but you can see how Dannielle has gotten dragged into this — she doesn’t seem to have a shred of dignity. Maybe it’s from Garrick beating it out of her (metaphorically), idk, but it’s infuriating to watch. 

[S03.E06: Got To Be Real]

15 hours ago, Emmeline said:

It must be terrible for Tami having fertility issues.  If it was slow going for Sophie too maybe it’s Colton??

Good point, something like 50% of fertility issues are due to the guy. It could easily be a sperm quality issue if both Sophie and Tami have had either primary or secondary infertility. I wonder if Colton would consent to treatment or testing for that or if he’d consider it a “sin” to collect the sample? Lol. 

[S15.E10: Polygamy Hell]

1 hour ago, the-grey-lady said:

WHAT DID I JUST WATCH

Christine: So our attempts to correct Ysabel's scoliosis through expensive quackery have failed. She needs surgery.

Kody: There's a Ysabel? Oh, right...does she need it now? I'm so busy.

Christine: She's in agony every day.

Kody: Fine. But do we have to be there for it? Specifically me? Robyn's kids might need me that day.

I never know why he’s so overwhelmed or whatever, either. Even with Robyn’s kids I’ve never seen him exerting himself. The moms have all been shown at least occasionally taking care of a baby, cooking a meal, gardening, SOMETHING. What does he *do?*

[S15.E10: Polygamy Hell]

3 hours ago, Twopper said:

Robyn was around 30 and Kody was 10 or 11 years older so Robyn was the trophy wife that Kody gave himself for his midlife crisis.   I think his relatively sudden dislike of plural marriage is a result of another midlife crisis.   The original three were "done" with baby making and they looked their age.   If you go back to the Natalie Morales interview,  Robyn is a very, very attractive woman from the front.  No wonder he was under her spell.

Whoa. I went back and looked at that interview and honestly, Robyn was extremely pretty. She had a glow. I forgot she ever looked like that. I do *totally* understand that 10 years, 2 more kids and possible health issues can DRASTICALLY affect or permanently alter your looks so I’m truly not trying to be a dick here, but comparing that Robyn to the Robyn of this season finale is fairly shocking. She looks completely, entirely different. 

partly it’s that the light seems to have gone out of her eyes. I think the Brown family is a deeply toxic environment with a truly poisonous amount of chronic stress. We certainly saw that this episode. I don’t know if that’s what’s affected Robyn’s looks but wow, it’s a jarring before and after. 

[S15.E10: Polygamy Hell]

7 hours ago, AryasMum said:

I’m not LDS, but have had friend who are. Unless they’re a convert, LDS seems rather obsessed with their lineage - closer to Joseph Smith, closer to God, I guess.  Since marrying someone outside of LDS leads to exclusion - my friend’s father was not Mormon and he was not allowed to attend her wedding in the sacrosanct temple - I think there is a huge incentive to marry within their own religion.  Plus, trying not to judge here, there are some unusual beliefs in Mormonism, and I couldn’t hitch my particular wagon to the LDS train.

 

 

I was Mormon once upon a time and yep - if I had married the guy I was engaged to at the time, my parents wouldn’t have been allowed at the wedding because they aren’t Mormon. 
 

Speaking of that, I’m wondering more than ever after the finale how much the Browns even believe in their religion anymore. What Kody was saying in this episode doesn’t seem to go along with the AUB beliefs whatsoever. Have they completely left the church? 

[Meri Brown and her Wet Bar of Tears]

On 4/22/2021 at 6:20 PM, SuzWhat said:

Even though I’m pretty up to date on the catfish situation, something puzzles me. I can understand what Meri thought she was getting (hot millionaire who was in love with her).  What did the catfisher get out of it? Is it a power thing?  Since she is still maintaining that persona there must be something. 

I’m sure it’s a power thing and an escapism/fantasy thing because she’s done it with several people. However, she also made money - she wrote two Amazon books about her debacle with Meri that seemed to sell really well. They got bad reviews but people did buy them. I believe she was arrested at some point for some other low-level scam so I think she’s just one of those people who lies and scams their way through life. 

[Christine Brown Woolley: Nacho Sister Wife Anymore]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:22 AM, Twopper said:

 

I think she has a type of Stockholm syndrome.   Maybe watching the finale of this show will help her see at least a flicker of truth.  She has a mother and aunt who broke free so I feel there is hope for her, too. 

I agree. Again not saying that she’s not at ALL responsible, because at some point as adults we do have choices, but first off, I think she was absolutely far and away the most religiously brainwashed of all of them. She was not only raised in polygamy but in an extremely prominent, dyed in the wool polygamist family with generation upon generation of Mormon fundamentalism. That was all she knew to an extent that isn’t true for the others. 

Secondly, people in families that came from cults or religious abuse situations (or even any abusive family situations) often take on “roles,” at least subconsciously.
 

You will often find one sibling who is the outspoken rebel, another who is not going to fight the power but who quietly makes their exit and just wants to be left alone, another who is the “golden child” who got their needs met as a child by being ultra-obedient and continues that in adulthood, the one who makes a few small changes but doesn’t really want to rock the boat, the one who becomes the ultimate crusader/apologist for the cult or family, etc. I get the sense that Christine comforted herself and got by by being the latter (the crusader/advocate/apologist for the cult, the abuser, or the abusive system). It seems she’s starting to change that based on her refusal to live under one roof, but I have no idea if she’ll ever actually fully change. I can only hope that her love for her kids can one day help her break out of that role. 

[Maddie Brown: Seeking a One-Woman Man]

On 4/14/2021 at 7:20 AM, ginger90 said:

 

Screenshot, shilling a scale:

Whoa. She is the spitting image of Janelle here. 

Evie is quite the cute little girl. 

[Christine Brown Woolley: Nacho Sister Wife Anymore]

Christine is not perfect and she has her own issues, but I felt so terrible for her this episode, watching her cry. Her heart was truly broken and not one person - not her husband of almost 30 years and not her sister wives - comforted her or had a kind word for her. After she spent a lot of her own sweet time taking care of THEIR children as they grew up. It was painful. You can tell she wants someone to show her some love and be gentle with her and apparently that’s too much to ask.

And poor Ysabel... she’s just a kid. When her dad suggested she go to get major surgery in a different state all alone, you could see the pain and fear in her eyes. She was so afraid she was going to be abandoned at the most vulnerable time in her young life so far. What kind of father makes their child feel that way? 

[S15.E10: Polygamy Hell]

52 minutes ago, readheaded said:

Or, maybe he reads Shakespeare but Kody is clueless about his kid. 

I feel like unless it’s Aurora having a panic attack or someone daring to defy His Majesty, King of the Personal Goals, Kody wouldn’t notice if one of his kids was bleeding out in front of him, shooting up heroin, writing a Pulitzer Prize winning novel or finding a cure for cancer. 

[S15.E10: Polygamy Hell]

1 minute ago, lamadeleine said:

I agree with this. I didn't necessarily interpret the comment to mean that Sol is learning to read for the first time ever...I guess I heard it as Sol is working on his reading. I don't think that Kody knows, understands, or cares about where his kids are in their educational development at any given time..just my opinion.

Yeah. I think he’s one of those dads who has seen his kid reading or overheard him once talking about reading class with his mom and thinks “reading, yeah, that’s what that one is up to these days.” I think he’s checked out. So even if Sol *does* have learning issues, I don’t think we’d really learn about them from Kody, lol. 

[S15.E10: Polygamy Hell]

21 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

 

I am really curious about what exactly that means.  What are his end goals and how does his family present an obstacle.

 

This! We have never heard him talk about what he actually wants, besides polygamy for the first several seasons and now for his wives to shut up and do what he wants. I have no earthly idea what Kody actually wants, as much as he flaps his gums about everything he hates about the life HE created. I’d be curious to hear what his goals are. They’re probably dumb, but I’d be curious. 

He seems interested in his workouts and that’s about it. He doesn’t seem interested in his kids, friends, or family of origin. He doesn’t seem interested in learning or reading anything or pursuing hobbies like exploring the outdoors or improving his homes or properties. He doesn’t seem interested in sex or romance of any kind, frankly even with Robyn - while I think he favors her, I think I disagree with some in that he doesn’t seem smitten or taken with her by any means to me. He’s too self-absorbed even for that. He certainly doesn’t seem interested in working, getting a job or investing. So like... what are these goals?

[S15.E10: Polygamy Hell]

Re: Solomon, while I have no doubt that Robyn’s laziness could contribute to any delays he might have (outside of any learning disabilities he could have, which of course is a totally different issue), I did have the thought that Kody might not even actually know what his kids are doing or learning. Even with Robyn’s kids, he talks about them like they’re his nephews or grandkids that he’s spent a bit of time with here and there. Reminds me of when he said Savanah was playing the guitar daily and Janelle was like “lol, no.” 

If you asked my brother-in-law what my kid likes, he might guess Paw Patrol. She hasn’t liked that for over a year, but that’s when he last saw her. Kody talks about his own children almost the same way — like, “hmm, I remember I was over there one time to meet my Personal Goals, like being in the basement doing pull-ups and taking breaks to give myself a perm, and I feel like I saw Solomon sounding out words as I was running downstairs. I guess he’s learning to read.” 😂 

Or he could be in a reading class and because Kody isn’t likely involved at all in helping with homework, he could interpret that as “learning to read.” I don’t get the sense that Kody has any idea of what normal developmental stages are, even after 18 kids.