AllyCat7

Yeah, you pegged me to a T. I don't like seeing people cry and get hurt---even people who have done wrong--especially if they feel bad about it. The 1 vs 20 setup made it seem like it was an unbalanced situation and he was nearly in tears. I know he was a jerk, but like who wants to see someone crying on national television? His reputation is already tarnished. No need to pile it on so thick. I also give him credit for apologizing. I hope it came from the heart and that he learns from this.

Well if that's the case then that is really upsetting. It's hard to make a judgement call when there are conflicting messages being thrown around. At the very least, I don't like the way it was handled...as others have pointed out since my last post, it seemed unnecessarily harsh. But I know he did wrong, too. I wish none of that had to go down.

I didn't say his behavior was right, did I? I was just reiterating what Kenny said about his motivations. Please don't put words in my mouth. Ok. Then they should have said that on the show. They kept focusing on that one tweet. I am thrown, though, on what Kenny said. He said he didn't feel that Lee's behavior was stemming from racism. So how does that weigh in all of this?

You are right. I didn't see the whole season, but I did see how he was towards Kenny and it made me very upset. I was pissed, trust me. I felt so bad for Kenny...he was my boy. But Kenny said that he didn't think Lee's behavior stemmed from racism as much as jealousy or some sort, so I will take him on that. As for other incidents in the house, I can't speak on that. And I didn't see any other of his tweets. I was just speaking about the one in question that they were showing on the ATFR show--the one that they were using to peg him as a racist. If they had more evidence, they should have showed it. I will look it up myself now. I still stand by what I said that that one tweet alone doesn't prove that he's racist. I will continue to do more research. Also, I NEVER said that being called a racist is worse than being a racist. I cited just a couple of things that could be pegged on non-racist motivations (his behavior towards Kenny and the one tweet about the NAACP). That's all I can speak about because I haven't seen the rest. Of course being a racist is horrible. I know that.

I know it's a ridiculous comparison, but I know what the NAACP is. Maybe he never heard about it until recently...maybe he grew up very sheltered and in a homogeneous environment. He was a buffoon to speak of something he had no idea about. But I still don't think that makes him racist. He didn't say anything derogatory towards black people as a race. he just made a really stupid and ignorant statement about something that he knows nothing about. He admitted as much and apologized. Why must he admit to being a racist on top of that if he doesn't think he is?

I didn't defend Lee until tonight when I saw how harshly all of the other guys were towards him (even after the apologized)--to the point of making him admit to something he truly felt he wasn't. That wasn't cool. I did NOT care for Lee or defend Lee until tonight. I found him just as annoying and troublesome as everyone else. But that doesn't mean that he should be attacked by the whole house and to be forced to admit he is racist when he might not be. That is not a word or accusation you throw around lightly.

Being ignorant about what the NAACP does to the point that you compare it to the KKK does not automatically make someone a racist. He's just ignorant and has really bad judgement. Him googling what the NAACP does would have cleared things up for him, but he didn't, and, for that, he's stupid. I know it's all the rage to throw the label "racist" at people these days, whether they are truly racist or not, but that doesn't make it right or accurate. You can keep throwing serious accusations at people who you don't know based on unsubstantial evidence. And I will choose otherwise. We will NOT agree. And that's ok. Bye. Did it ever occur to you that he could have been picking on the black men because he was THREATENED by them? The bachelorette was black, so he probably felt that the black guys had the upper hand. Even Kenny admitted as much. Kenny himself said that he felt that Lee was just in over his head and felt that the other guys were better. So you would take your own views over Kenny's who was not only in the house but also a target of Lee himself. I think I'll go with Kenny on this one.

I cannot speak for all of Lee's actions because I didn't watch the entire season. But I didn't like how the men practically forced him to admit he is racist when he may not feel that way. His tweet, although wildly ignorant, isn't in itself racist. He obviously doesn't know what the NAACP does and needs to be educated about it. But what he wrote is different from someone saying something like "all black people are like this or that". He was ignorant and uneducated and a fool to speak on things he was ignorant about. But for people to force him to admit that he is a racist was rather extreme. That is not something to put on someone unless you are 100% certain of it, as it can really ruin someone's reputation...and I don't think there was evidence to pin that on him 100%. Even Kenny admitted as much. So why was it ok for all the guys on The Men Tell All to bully him into admitting that? Not cool.

I know I can't convince either of you but just wanted to say that I don't agree. I don't think any of the contestants are good enough actors to have pulled these claims off. I do sincerely think Ben loved both women...whether he was IN love with both I don't know. But it's possible to love two people at once, just as how we can love more than one friend or family member. As someone stated in a past post, he could have had more of a friendship love with JoJo and more of a romantic love with Lauren. And I think both of them loved him, too, and both wanted to marry him. JoJo seemed genuinely upset when he dumped her. And, as has been reported in numerous outlets, Caila was the original pick as bachelorette and they made a last minute switch when they saw the social media backlash against that choice. JoJo, while not perfect, was more popular than Caila, so they went for that to get better ratings. They also probably realized that the unwritten rule they to never choose the runner up as the next lead was silly. And they made more wiggle room in production schedules to accommodate what, in their minds, was a better choice.

He wasn't even reading. He was briskly flipping through the pages lol

Thanks :) But I'm not saying I've never felt it. I feel it less as I've gotten older, as I've gotten more comfortable with myself and also develop a stronger trust in God.Maybe JoJo meant it in a way that you are saying. I hope so.

Haha yes she was asked. Jimmy asked if they discovered any annoying habits of each other's yet. She mentioned the heavy breathing and he mentioned how she nitpicks him when he prays loudly before bed. I really didn't like the "training" comment. I don't know why a man would let a woman emasculate him like that. It's not cute and it gets old after a while, I'm sure.

When I see happy couples, Ben and Lauren for example, I am not envious. I am happy for them. I am not even thinking of myself in that moment. Do you see the difference?

Interesting you should mention this. I saw it, too, and it wasn't until this morning that it hit me that maybe she isn't as sweet as she came across on the show. The "training" comment was emasculating and the nitpicking seemed too much. I can see Ben tiring of that after a while. I'm not as sure of them as I was before. Hmmm

This right here. This stood out to me as well. Definitely an awful reason to choose a guy or to get engaged. I hope this mentality of hers changes before her stint as bachette.

So glad they didn't choose Caila. Now I can continue with the franchise :)

Hell All :) I've been trolling here for a while and finally joined. It's been great reading your posts all season :) I wanted to add my thoughts on Caila. I agree with LakeGal. When I saw the clip again tonight, her tears did not seem very genuine in the car. She also didn't cry or get very emotional when they played back her summary reel tonight when she was in the hot seat (while all the other girls did). I find her her very robotic and disconnected. It's for that reason I would hate for her to be the next bachette. She really needs to do some self discovery and self work before she's anywhere close to being married. I gave her all season to grow on me but it never happened. If she's the bachette I'm afraid I won't be watching.